Bare Metal + Bondo= Rust?!

[silvialove]

I've come across a problem which may be the worst of any I have faced so far.
This question is critical considering I spent countless of hours the last few months bondo'ing
every spot weld, dents, imperfections, etc inside my s13.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i147/dsdfm48/o.jpg

Before I applied the bondo, I hand sanded the area usually down to bare metal.
I wiped down everything with acetone & prep.
Then applied the body filler w/o spraying down any primer before.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i147/dsdfm48/b-2.jpg

A while back before I started bondo'ing,
The automotive paint store clerk told me to apply bondo and then spray some primer over it.
However, a friend of mine told me to spray primer (etching) over the exposed (bare metal) areas and then bondo.
So now I'm confused and worried whether or not I'm going to have to start all over.
But I'd rather fix it now than to have my car run into rust issues in the near future.

I don't know why it hit me right now!
But my question is: What are the chances of rust forming under bondo? :bite:
or is there any other way I can continue this method & still prevent rust from forming?

I would appreciate any advice or solutions.

[lflkajfj12123]

you're just opening a can of worms with this thread as it is pretty much just a preference

it can be done either way but it all depends in the application

if you're dealing with bondoing an area with flash rust its best to prime it then bondo

otherwise bondoing then priming is fine

you won't run into any problems

but if you're looking for the most perfect situation it would probably be priming the metal and then bondoing considering the advancements in primers

another thing that comes into mind is whether or not when you end up sanding the bondo you will sand through the bondo and primer in spots and end up with primer bondo primer bondo sandwich

which *would* result in poor adhesion in theory

my answer is: you're fine... but if you're super picky primer it first depending on application

[silvialove]

Yeah, i wasn't doing the whole "primer-bondo-primer-bondo" thing.
Being a perfectionist, I would start all over again, but driving is more of a concern to me than having a "perfect" bondo application.
Sounds like I can finish the car in a couple weeks.

Your answer was very thorough and extremely helpful.
Thank you so much! :bowdown:

[LongGrain]

ive always been under the impression that bondo is meant to adhere to bare metal, which is how i have always done it, with no problems yet.

[OutToWinPAHC]

Why are you bondoing the floor pans. It look like your trying to fill in the ripples?

[S14DB]

Bondo goes on the bare metal.


What you friend has heard about is if you have pinholes in the metal. The water will come in through the pinholes on the other side and permeate into the bondo. Bondo loves water, this is why you prime it after you work with it. You can back prime if you were doing the outside of the car. inside bondo work is unusual enough for me not to suggest priming the outside of the car after inside work.

If you have any holes or breaks in the metal. Fill them in with metal(weld) before you bondo.

[silpena]

first off remove all of the body filler, get it down to bare metal. Next make sure there isnt any hole exposing it to moisture like s14db said. Body filler is a huge sponge when it comes to moisture. Unless your in an area with zero humidity then you cant leave it out for a long time. Even with primer you cant leave it alone for more than a month or 2.

Prep and condition the metal with a metal cleaner to restore the zince oxide properties in the metal. this will also give you some time to get your materials to prevent flast rust. Apply an expoxy primer. The epoxy primer is really great since its also aids in aheadsion for your repairs. Do not apply epoxy primer over body filler. It will swell up around the repair areas and cause the repairs to show up later on.

YOu can use an etching primer if you do not want to use a metal conditioner. NO primer these days will protect you car from the weather anymore. Not even expoxy. Primer is pourous also. Not since they took out the of the good stuff like back i the old days. If you can look for an expoxy primer called dp9. Its has zinc and lead in it and you can spray you shell and leav it out for a year and not rust

body filler only sticks to bare metal. Glazes are the only body filler that will stick to paint but doesnt have the structural strength and build that body filler does.

[shinhed]

Oh my...

You're filling in the stamped parts of the floor board with bondo? To each his own, but why??!? Bondo's not made to fill such depths. When it cracks the [email protected] from vibrations and foot traffic, you'll have an even bigger cluster f*ck.

[AFSil80]

Are you building a show car? If not, then that stuff is gonna crack up after a few bumps in the road.

[QuickSpoolSR]

i have always heard bondo will only apply well to bare metal, i have never heard of primer then bondo, that doesnt sound right

[SexPanda]

wtf are you bondo'ing the inside of your vehicle for?

just wondering, not trying to be dick...

[DataXUnknown]

wtf are you bondo'ing the inside of your vehicle for?

just wondering, not trying to be dick...

Show car maybe? A lot of people use body filler/bondo to smooth out the interior make it look real nice. I'd probably do the same on my car (gunna be a track car) just because I like smoothness and the feeling of looking nice inside and out.

[GSXRJJordan]

The metal of the floor is very thin. The vibrations and stresses of driving will crack the bondo on the floor, especially if it's layered high enough to fill in the 'stamped' portions. Not to mention stepping on it, etc.

Dumb. Any show car's going to have carpet anyway.

[r6_240sx]

Back in the day, body putty was applied straight to bare metal, then primered over. One thing they didn't realize was that people don't work in "ideal" booths along with prepping shit correctly, so rust/corrosion occurred from the moisture trap.

Nowadays, by most OEM standards any bare metal that is exposed is epoxy primered THEN body putty over that. After you're done sanding the body putty, spot epoxy any bare metal exposures you might've gotten.

body filler only sticks to bare metal. Not entirely true. Although, it is stated on most body fillers that it should be applied to bare metal; they say this because if they were to say that it should be applied to ANY epoxy primer, that would be way too vague because not all epoxy primers are the same. They also can't state ONLY APPLY to "PPG" brand Epoxy. Imagine the contracts they would lose to sherwin williams, dupont, etc jobbers.

From Evercoat (http://www.evercoat.com/faq.aspx):
Q. Can Evercoat fillers be applied over bare metal? Can they be applied over paint?
A. Our fillers are designed to work over bare, properly prepared substrates such as: steel, aluminum, galvanized, stainless steel, fiberglass, and SMC. Some people prefer applying an epoxy primer over bare substrates to enhance corrosion protection. Our products don’t need to be applied over an epoxy for corrosion protection as long as the bare surface area is clean and no surface rust or contamination is present. However, some auto manufacturers do require body technicians to coat the bare metal surface with an epoxy before applying fillers. If you are performing warranty work, you should consult the manufacturer of the automobile for the recommended procedure. Fillers and putties will normally work OK over properly sanded (80-180 grit) cured OEM paint. However, with so many different types of aftermarket paint available (lacquer, enamel, urethane, water-based). We recommend that all paint be removed where filler is to be applied.

Nonetheless, the OP truly fucked up by filling a thick ass layer of body putty. Body putty should only be used for minor imperfections and a glaze to perfect that. Any major shaving that is done with metal is done by WELDING them shut.

OP: Please tell me you didn't use the actual brand "Bondo". I will atleast cut you some slack if you didn't.

[spool3n240]

bondo adheres better to bear metal. should be sanded with around 36 grit of your using sand paper. the next step you should take is spraying a sealing primer over the bondo which will protect your body from rust. if your worried about seeing scratches then prime it with a filler primer. after the sealer ofcource and you will be good to go.

[silpena]

Back in the day, body putty was applied straight to bare metal, then primered over. One thing they didn't realize was that people don't work in "ideal" booths along with prepping shit correctly, so rust/corrosion occurred from the moisture trap.

Nowadays, by most OEM standards any bare metal that is exposed is epoxy primered THEN body putty over that. After you're done sanding the body putty, spot epoxy any bare metal exposures you might've gotten.

Not entirely true. Although, it is stated on most body fillers that it should be applied to bare metal; they say this because if they were to say that it should be applied to ANY epoxy primer, that would be way too vague because not all epoxy primers are the same. They also can't state ONLY APPLY to "PPG" brand Epoxy. Imagine the contracts they would lose to sherwin williams, dupont, etc jobbers.

From Evercoat (http://www.evercoat.com/faq.aspx):
Q. Can Evercoat fillers be applied over bare metal? Can they be applied over paint?
A. Our fillers are designed to work over bare, properly prepared substrates such as: steel, aluminum, galvanized, stainless steel, fiberglass, and SMC. Some people prefer applying an epoxy primer over bare substrates to enhance corrosion protection. Our products don’t need to be applied over an epoxy for corrosion protection as long as the bare surface area is clean and no surface rust or contamination is present. However, some auto manufacturers do require body technicians to coat the bare metal surface with an epoxy before applying fillers. If you are performing warranty work, you should consult the manufacturer of the automobile for the recommended procedure. Fillers and putties will normally work OK over properly sanded (80-180 grit) cured OEM paint. However, with so many different types of aftermarket paint available (lacquer, enamel, urethane, water-based). We recommend that all paint be removed where filler is to be applied.

Nonetheless, the OP truly fucked up by filling a thick ass layer of body putty. Body putty should only be used for minor imperfections and a glaze to perfect that. Any major shaving that is done with metal is done by WELDING them shut.

OP: Please tell me you didn't use the actual brand "Bondo". I will atleast cut you some slack if you didn't.
my bad i was gonna fix what i said because i forgot expoxys and glazing puttys are able to stick to paint and even clear coat as long as it is sanded.
YEs not all expoxys are the same. I have some owners tell me that they never use expoxy on a car becuase it seems to swell up around the repair area. I just love the old expoxy that had lead it in it. Ultimate rust protector unlike these days expoxys. Epoxy is only used for minor rust protection and it helps body fillers bite into the metal easier.

I tired to make another post but my stupid phone was making me mad so i gave up.:hahano: i can see the body filler popping out the first corner you take. Chasis flexes and POP! at least use metal to metal first to give ir more structure and strength.

[silpena]

bondo adheres better to bear metal. should be sanded with around 36 grit of your using sand paper. the next step you should take is spraying a sealing primer over the bondo which will protect your body from rust. if your worried about seeing scratches then prime it with a filler primer. after the sealer ofcource and you will be good to go.
why would want to use a 36 girt on a 240sx? this is not an oldschool chevy where the metal is hella thick. Todays cars metal is so thin the standard is 80 grit and no more.

Body filler these days is so advanced from the old days you dont need to make heavy scratches to make it bite and adhere. Try to retain as much of the metal as you can. Thats the original metal strength and structure. You'll just weaken the panel and repair area. 36 grit i would only use to rough out body filler..... just a litttle or fiber glass.

[silvialove]

I've been out for a couple days so sorry i haven't been able to get to your replies :hs:

But going back to the general question, I am bondo'ing the whole inside primarily because I want something unique that no one has done before and being a perfectionionist I can't half-ass this by removing some of the sound deadening material and then primering the inside and calling it done :nono:

It's not going to be for show (or at least not for now) but I do plan to use it as my DD and the track (drift) :eek3:
I don't know how much of the "cracking" will be a problem but I've gone too far to turn back and if it does crack/rust/etc than whatever, I'll buy a new 13 and start over using the mistakes I learned from this project.

I am using the general Bondo "body-filler" for the reason that I don't know any other substitute to fill in the canals and other large areas. :confused:
I don't know how to weld and even if i did i don't think I would because it would make layers and I wouldn't have the smooth surface I am looking for.

But here's a rough idea of how I got to this point since I didn't make a build thread: :zzz:
-Remove all interior parts (except steering rack & brake pedal), wires, etc.
-Removed all the "sealant" in and around the car
-Removed all of the sound deadening material
-Sanded everything with (normally- 300 grit, touger areas- 80-150 grit)
*Tried to keep as much of the factory primer but in some areas sanded down to bare metal
Couple weeks later
-Sanded the area that I would apply bondo with 300 grit/scotch-brite
-Wiped the area down with acetone than prep-all
-Applied bondo
Days to come: :dead:
-Finish applying bondo
-Sand with bondo'ed areas with 150 grit
-Clean & Rebondo/Sand
-Clean & Spot&Glazing Putty
-Blow Gun (air comp)/Vaccum/Acetone/Prep-All
-Etching primer for bare metal areas
-High Build primer for the rest of the car (3 coats?)
-Sand & Clean
-1-stage paint (white)
^I know that some people go all out with all these different primers (sealers, high-build, etc) but with the lack of funds/tools & the urge to drive, :ughd: I think I will go with this route unless something I didn't mention is critically important and necessary.

As of right now, I think I will stick to what Soap has said and keep bondo'ing. :hs:

I'm doing everything at home so taking my car to a shop (to get it welded, painted, etc) is kinda out of the question since I've already spent $150 towing my car to & from my school's auto shop. :-/

One question I still have is:
How long would it take for rust to form under normal Socal conditions?

[S14DB]

I hope you realize some of that "Sealant" is structural.

[silvialove]

I hope you realize some of that "Sealant" is structural.

Yeah I forgot to add that I was going to put some sealant before I lay down some primer

[silpena]

theres no clear answer to tell on how long it will take for the car to rust. IN 0% humidity where it is dry then i said a long ass time. IN the winter then a couple of weeks to a month to see some surface rust. As long as you dont remove too muh of the oem zinc corrosion/galvenization protection in the upper substrate in the metal than dont be too worried(different from the corrosion protection from primer). You can lightly sand it off and re-condition and prep the metal again when your ready to start the body work and prime and shabambam. Go to far into the metal then id say a couple of days to a week to see light rust form...

[r6_240sx]

But going back to the general question, I am bondo'ing the whole inside primarily because I want something unique that no one has done before and being a perfectionionist I can't half-ass this by removing some of the sound deadening material and then primering the inside and calling it done :nono:
Not a lot of people do it because it is HARD to do correctly. Sorry you did half-ass it.

It's not going to be for show (or at least not for now) but I do plan to use it as my DD and the track (drift) :eek3:
I don't know how much of the "cracking" will be a problem but I've gone too far to turn back and if it does crack/rust/etc than whatever, I'll buy a new 13 and start over using the mistakes I learned from this project.
How are you gonna afford another car if you said you have a lack of funds? Learn all the mistakes you did now by removing all the bondo. It doesn't take long at all and it doesn't cost you anything. There's no "ifs", your shit will crack man especially if you plan on DD or tracking your car. "Show" cars can get away with this because they don't get driven often. Do it once and do it right (that's a true perfectionist). It'll save you a lot more time and money. If you can't afford to weld it shut then just leave it alone.

I am using the general Bondo "body-filler" for the reason that I don't know any other substitute to fill in the canals and other large areas. :confused:
I don't know how to weld and even if i did i don't think I would because it would make layers and I wouldn't have the smooth surface I am looking for.
You can grind down welds ya know...

But here's a rough idea of how I got to this point since I didn't make a build thread: :zzz:
-High Build primer for the rest of the car (3 coats?)
^I know that some people go all out with all these different primers (sealers, high-build, etc) but with the lack of funds/tools & the urge to drive, :ughd: I think I will go with this route unless something I didn't mention is critically important and necessary.
Oh my lawd 3 coats of high build for the interior of the car?

How long would it take for rust to form under normal Socal conditions?
Rust/corrosion occurs from bare metal exposed to moisture and an electric charge (That's why the area of the battery is prone to corroding).

If your car is garaged away from the elements, surface rust will occur fairly slowly. Be forewarned though, if your garage has any moisture from a leak in the water heater that shit will rust incredibly fast.

Best thing to do if you can't primer right away is remove your negative battery terminal and ground the exposed areas to dissipate the static electricity in the air.

[silvialove]

Starting all over would just be a huge pita. :bash:
Trying to remove bondo from pretty much the entire inside of the car would seriously take forever.
It may seem like I half assed this only because I summarized a yrs worth of hard work in a few words.
The way I see it, I did more than enough.
I spent at least 1-5hrs school days & 5-14hrs weekends. :zzz:
I don't know your definition of a perfectionist but I think I fit the term. :o

If I knew how to weld, I would since it's probably alot easier than the route I'm currently taking.
But covering the area such as those "canals" by just welding sheet metal over even after sanding/grinding will most likely not give me the leveled surface I'm looking for.

I mean I can only take the word of someone who's actually done what I have, which I doubt anyone really has.
Not because it can lead to cracking/rust but because it's just too damn hard & time consuming. :dead:

I really feel that the cracking won't be a problem.
The stuff feels solid.
I'm going to be driving on the street (at least I hope) not on some dirt covered pot-hole road. :Ownedd:

Your right that I do have a lack of funds & I can't afford another s13 right now but even if the car does rust/bondo cracks, I imagine that I'll at least have some time to drive it. :hsdance:
By that time, I should have a job and some cash to buy another s13 and build it right if this doesn't work.

I hope I don't sound like a dick.
I don't like arguing, it's just that I'm stressed out about all the work I still have left and everyone is pressuring me to finish. :-/
It's just hard for someone to tell me to- "start all over." :eek3:
I just hope you can put yourself in my shoes for a moment.
But I really do appreciate the comments. :bow:
Thanks.

Btw- the battery's been taken out quite some time so wouldn't that pretty much "dissipate the static electricity"? :confused:

[silvialove]

theres no clear answer to tell on how long it will take for the car to rust. IN 0% humidity where it is dry then i said a long ass time. IN the winter then a couple of weeks to a month to see some surface rust. As long as you dont remove too muh of the oem zinc corrosion/galvenization protection in the upper substrate in the metal than dont be too worried(different from the corrosion protection from primer). You can lightly sand it off and re-condition and prep the metal again when your ready to start the body work and prime and shabambam. Go to far into the metal then id say a couple of days to a week to see light rust form...

Sorry, didn't see your comment there :doh:
r6 240sx's long reply caught my eye.
But I see what your saying,
Thanks :D

[shinhed]

...I can only take the word of someone who's actually done what I have, which I doubt anyone really has....

Whatever man. There's an old saying, "You don't have to eat shit to know it tastes bad."

Your Bondo WILL crack the fuck up. Why? ; because you've used it incorrectly by using way more than the recommended amount. Us forum members have wide and varied backgrounds and just because we haven't done the EXACT same thing you're doing, doesn't mean we don't know. The mistake you are currently making has been duplicated for decades.

BTW Mr. Perfect, Mike Gentile's 240sx is the closest anyone has come to perfection and his cage sucked major balls:2f2f:

http://www.driftunit.com/profiles/gentile/car_images/10.jpg
http://www.driftunit.com/profiles/gentile/car_images/2.jpg

...and he didn't use a yucky hatch;)

[silvialove]

Haha I was inspired by this coupe...and many others.

But if it cracks it cracks.
Oh well, I really can't do much about it.

I'm sure most of the areas I bondo'ed will remain intact.
But if the bondo cracks, I'll remove it & do the welding method you guys suggested.

[silpena]

the body filler will crack dude, it doesnt have enough structure to withstand the twisting of the chasis or the impact of stuff falling on it(like a hammer) even your foot can crack it if your hit it hard enough. THe very first turn you take on the car the whole thing will pop out.

Your not too far into it to remove it and start over.... just get a chisel and start going at it. Bondo brand body filler doesnt stick very well anyways. I bet u can removed it in a couple of hours. IF you dont want to weld then like i said. Get metal to metal body filler. Its aluminum reinforced body filler. It has great strength and structure. Probably the next best thing to welding. NOt as good but better than body filler or fiber glass imo. Its used alot on restorations ars on seams/joints where lead soldering cant be used anymore.

[silvialove]

Just to give you an idea of the strength of the bondo, I stomped on the areas such as the canals just to test your theory and there was no visible cracks. Won't be able to say whether the driving will lead to cracks until I get everything back together.

I understand where your coming from & know that I should start over but I really really really don't want to.
So i think I'll continue my course even if it means in the end I'll find out the hard way.
I know i'm a stubborn ass at times.

But thanks for the info about the metal body filler.
Helps with the thoughts of building another s13 in the future.

[ladiesman8527]

^your stomping is in no way equal to the weight of the car bouncing around as you drive down the road and the constant vibration. its gonna crack.

[silvialove]

the body filler will crack dude, it doesnt have enough structure to withstand the twisting of the chasis or the impact of stuff falling on it(like a hammer) even your foot can crack it if your hit it hard enough.
i know i just wanted to show that bondo is not as brittle as silpena or others may think

[SexPanda]

go to harbor freight
buy cheap mig welder
practice practice practice
weld frame together
enjoy firmer handling characteristics
and less comfort.

[silvialove]

thanks,
i'll give it a try

[breaker103]

just wondering what kinda bondo are you using are you using actual bondo or a profesional plastic body and what level like original, gold, rage, fiberglass, or kevlar renforced, or milkshake. i have personaly used all types as a tech bondo brand original is crap to me personaly. If you leave it outside when its moist it will get rust cuz that brand of body filler will soak in water even when primed unless its primer sealer.

the way i would do it is grind it down to metal then grind it with 40 or 36 not hand sand, then i would use a evercoat fiberglass renforced body filler, it is much stronger then bondo and wont split or crack over time, grind it down with 40 for grip then mix some evercoat rage gold body filler with evercoat fiberglass resin and lay it over and sand it flat, mixing the 2 products will give you a layer that is tough but has some flex and the resin will help seal it in

now if you dont want to do all that just grind with 40 in what you got for grip the mix your bondo with any fiberglass resin you should seal that sucker in less it already has rust.

[silvialove]

I've been using the original bondo "body filler" bought a tub at home depot.
I guess Didn't think/research enough about the different types of bondo.
Just thought bondo was bondo and the closest place selling some was home depot.

My car is pretty much rust free or that's what I can assume from working on it for a year.
So having no past rust problems, I didn't think that a rust would be a problem for me when applying the bondo.

But as I mentioned before, I think I'll keep doing my thang since not only would it be physically difficult for me to remove the bondo/sand/reapply ___(body filler) but also take a toll on my wallet- getting new materials, etc.

But if I don't go over with primer sealer;
Generally, how quickly do you think I would see rust begin to form or the effects of rust?

[breaker103]

you may not see any rust come through cuz of the color of the filler but since bondo doesnt really contain much iron the rust will not show for 3 months every 1/4 inch as for the effect of rust that depends on exposure

again if you didnt get moisture on it your are fine
now since your car has been laying around for a year if it got rained on or just left out side without anykind of primer on it depending how much you most probly have rust under there with out your knowledge

i have never seen bondo rust before metal but theres a first for everything

and for that one smartass that maybe out there when i me bondo start to rust i mean the actual rust begin to appear on the surface or when the ironoxide begins to acumilate underneath the body filler seaping to the surface

and just so you know you can buy rattle can primer sealer at autozone and even regular auto primer from rustolem found at home depot is good enough as long you let the primer pool on top i mean soak it and then some

[ixfxi]

you live in socal, life for a car cant get much better than being here in this nice dry environment

you're a bit of a douchebag for not asking before doing, but hey.. we all make mistakes.

personally, i would've sealed anything that was bare metal with etching primer, then done whatever you want to do (fill or paint) after that. however, i wouldnt EVER fill panels like that with filler - i just think its stupid and useless.

another member made a good point, i think it was s14db, that the seam sealer is important to keeping panels together. i removed seam sealer from various sections of my chassis but reinforced everything by having it stitch-welded after. then, the entire chassis was primed and painted. NOW, for the past couple months i've been working on the undercarriage and have been brushing and removing dirt from the wheel wells and undercarriage. sections that were stitch welded had burned through the vehicle's undercoating and need to be re-coated before subjected to the elements. i think a lot of people forget this when doing race-prep like stitch-welding, they take care of coating the interior with paint but never coat the undercarriage.. i wouldnt be surprised if people ran into big problems later.

for now, i'de rock your setup a bit and be very cautious. to start over would be very time consuming, so just rock it until things start to fall apart (which they probably will). filler will crack, seams will separate... fuckit, just rebuilt it. chances are, the socal weather will not harm your car. just avoid driving in the rain and keep the car stored indoors.

[silvialove]

you may not see any rust come through cuz of the color of the filler but since bondo doesnt really contain much iron the rust will not show for 3 months every 1/4 inch as for the effect of rust that depends on exposure

again if you didnt get moisture on it your are fine
now since your car has been laying around for a year if it got rained on or just left out side without anykind of primer on it depending how much you most probly have rust under there with out your knowledge

i have never seen bondo rust before metal but theres a first for everything

and for that one smartass that maybe out there when i me bondo start to rust i mean the actual rust begin to appear on the surface or when the ironoxide begins to acumilate underneath the body filler seaping to the surface

and just so you know you can buy rattle can primer sealer at autozone and even regular auto primer from rustolem found at home depot is good enough as long you let the primer pool on top i mean soak it and then some

Yeah my cars been outside for the past year but I've kept a tarp + car cover over it.
It doesn't stop all the moisture but is a lot better than leaving it exposed to the socal weather.

Since I had sanded (300grit) the entire inside of the car all at once a few months back I've been seing the signs of the metal tarnishing?
Which is why I would sand the area again before I applied the bondo just in case there was any surface rust or the signs of the formation of surface rust.

After reading the replies from this thread I began to at least spray some etching primer before applying the bondo.
But I've only started doing this on the back of the car (hatch/trunk).
I think that's better than nothing.

You mentioned buying some primer sealer from autozone,
-How many coats should I put on?
-Would I have to sand in between coats?
-Do I put it on before or after the high-build?

[silvialove]

you live in socal, life for a car cant get much better than being here in this nice dry environment

you're a bit of a douchebag for not asking before doing, but hey.. we all make mistakes.

personally, i would've sealed anything that was bare metal with etching primer, then done whatever you want to do (fill or paint) after that. however, i wouldnt EVER fill panels like that with filler - i just think its stupid and useless.

another member made a good point, i think it was s14db, that the seam sealer is important to keeping panels together. i removed seam sealer from various sections of my chassis but reinforced everything by having it stitch-welded after. then, the entire chassis was primed and painted. NOW, for the past couple months i've been working on the undercarriage and have been brushing and removing dirt from the wheel wells and undercarriage. sections that were stitch welded had burned through the vehicle's undercoating and need to be re-coated before subjected to the elements. i think a lot of people forget this when doing race-prep like stitch-welding, they take care of coating the interior with paint but never coat the undercarriage.. i wouldnt be surprised if people ran into big problems later.

for now, i'de rock your setup a bit and be very cautious. to start over would be very time consuming, so just rock it until things start to fall apart (which they probably will). filler will crack, seams will separate... fuckit, just rebuilt it. chances are, the socal weather will not harm your car. just avoid driving in the rain and keep the car stored indoors.

Yeah I know I should've asked the Zilvian Community but I didn't know it'd be such a big problem until now.
My dad, a neighbor, and the paint clerk all gave me the thumbs up so I just went ahead and did it this way.
My original plan was to put some primer on before applying the bondo.

The whole point of me filling the panels was to get a really clean smooth look.
It is useless but to me I did it for an aesthetic appeal.
I had a year before being able to drive (again after crashing my s14)

I planed to put the seam sealer back on, I think I mentioned that in the last pg.
I wanted to stitch weld the chassis but again the lack of knowledge & funds prevented me from doing so.

But thanks for agreeing with me on how time-consuming removing the bondo can be.
I'll take your advice & drive it hard till it falls apart.

I just see this as a whole learning experience and even though its been a total b*tch,
I know that my next project will benefit from the past experiences I had with this car.

[r6_240sx]

Like breaker103 said, you won't see the rust over the bondo (I myself have never seen that either). You'll see it if you ever sand it down again. Hopefully not too much moisture has gotten to it causing the rust to start pitting and weaken the metal structure.

This is not the main concern though, what I think everyone is talking about is cracking.

First of all, you stomping on it either does not mean it's not brittle. Do you even know what the means or how to test for brittleness? Have you ever stomped on concrete? Wait we walk on this all the time, but yet it is still considered brittle...

Stop being a stubborn ass teenager and take some advice from people who have experience and/or do bodywork for a living. You already made the biggest mistake by buying "Bondo" and thinking they're all the same. That should atleast give you an idea that you really have no clue what you're doing.

ATLEAST remove the bondo in the stamped portions where it was laid on real thick and replace it with the alternatives that other people suggested. I personally wouldn't use any of them because I hate using any type of filler in general to make up for metal structure. It just causes too much trouble; just look at what it caused in this thread.

Trust me, it does not take long at all. As silpena said, just take a chisel and go at it. If you get it right at the crevice it should just pry right off because Bondo has poor adhesion. Then replace with the methods other people have suggested. This does not cost much at all either.

As for the questions about primer, READ THE DAMN TECH-SHEET OR INSTRUCTIONS THAT COME ALONG WITH IT. There's no one universal instruction for different brands.

[silvialove]

Like breaker103 said, you won't see the rust over the bondo (I myself have never seen that either). You'll see it if you ever sand it down again. Hopefully not too much moisture has gotten to it causing the rust to start pitting and weaken the metal structure.

This is not the main concern though, what I think everyone is talking about is cracking.

First of all, you stomping on it either does not mean it's not brittle. Do you even know what the means or how to test for brittleness? Have you ever stomped on concrete? Wait we walk on this all the time, but yet it is still considered brittle...

Stop being a stubborn ass teenager and take some advice from people who have experience and/or do bodywork for a living. You already made the biggest mistake by buying "Bondo" and thinking they're all the same. That should atleast give you an idea that you really have no clue what you're doing.

ATLEAST remove the bondo in the stamped portions where it was laid on real thick and replace it with the alternatives that other people suggested. I personally wouldn't use any of them because I hate using any type of filler in general to make up for metal structure. It just causes too much trouble; just look at what it caused in this thread.

Trust me, it does not take long at all. As silpena said, just take a chisel and go at it. If you get it right at the crevice it should just pry right off because Bondo has poor adhesion. Then replace with the methods other people have suggested. This does not cost much at all either.

As for the questions about primer, READ THE DAMN TECH-SHEET OR INSTRUCTIONS THAT COME ALONG WITH IT. There's no one universal instruction for different brands.

I think I understand that I've been mistaken so no need to rub it in.
As one of the young'ens of this site I think that we need more direction and less bashing.

As for the stomping, I know it doesn't test how strong it really is, just wanted to give him an idea that it doesn't crack as easily as he may have thought.
I actually did try removing the bondo a while back and its not as easy as you may think.
It sticks and doesn't slide off.
Using the chisel just caused more scratches leading to more use of bondo.
And I know how to use a chisel as that was my primary tool in removing all the sound deadening material & seam sealant.

There's not more much to do except cover a few more spot welds and sand everything down.
So if the bondo does crack in the areas such as the floor panels after the paints on and everything, then I'll use one of the suggestions provided to fix that problem.
All I'm focused on right now is getting everything put back together and driving.

[LA_phantom_240]

Something to be noted when using body filler over self etching primer is that the primer must be 100% cured (Typically 7 days to fully cure) before using body filler over it, or complications can arise with adhesion and longevity due to the acids in the primer.

[silvialove]

Something to be noted when using body filler over self etching primer is that the primer must be 100% cured (Typically 7 days to fully cure) before using body filler over it, or complications can arise with adhesion and longevity due to the acids in the primer.

Never knew that,
Thanks!

[ixfxi]

you must've said "ohh shit" after reading everyones responses, but i dont think its as big of a deal as its made out to be. we all do stupid things to our cars, its part of the learning experience. if everything we did was perfect the first time around, we wouldnt be working on our cars.. we'de be done with the first attempt. you can easily spend infinite years on R&D...

my point though, is that whatever you did will most likely be removable once the bondo falls apart................ which it most always does. filler is shit, it should only be used lightly. after years of use, i wouldnt be surprised if you see cracks and a simple hammer/chisel will cause the filled to pop off.

why you did all this is beyond me, because making the shit look silky smooth is just weird. i know it looks clean and all, but there are bigger and more important things to think about and spend your time/money on. its like guys who mold their body kit, it's sheer stupidity.

with socal weather i dont think you will have any major rust issues. my car sat outside exposed to the elements when it was at the body shop, it was part primer and certain sections were exposed bare metal. yes, it had some slight surface rust which needed to be sanded before being sealed and painted.. but it wasnt permanent damage or anything like that.

post some pics, im curious as to what the fuck you did to your interior. sounds weird as all fuck.

[silvialove]

you must've said "ohh shit" after reading everyones responses, but i dont think its as big of a deal as its made out to be. we all do stupid things to our cars, its part of the learning experience. if everything we did was perfect the first time around, we wouldnt be working on our cars.. we'de be done with the first attempt. you can easily spend infinite years on R&D...

my point though, is that whatever you did will most likely be removable once the bondo falls apart................ which it most always does. filler is shit, it should only be used lightly. after years of use, i wouldnt be surprised if you see cracks and a simple hammer/chisel will cause the filled to pop off.

why you did all this is beyond me, because making the shit look silky smooth is just weird. i know it looks clean and all, but there are bigger and more important things to think about and spend your time/money on. its like guys who mold their body kit, it's sheer stupidity.

with socal weather i dont think you will have any major rust issues. my car sat outside exposed to the elements when it was at the body shop, it was part primer and certain sections were exposed bare metal. yes, it had some slight surface rust which needed to be sanded before being sealed and painted.. but it wasnt permanent damage or anything like that.

post some pics, im curious as to what the fuck you did to your interior. sounds weird as all fuck.

Haha that's exactly what I was thinking in my head.
But i agree with what your saying and i feel the same way.
I only did it because i thought i had to kill time and one thing led to another.
I kinda regret putting that much time into it since I could've spent my time driving it + the chances of keeping a s13 intact after getting into drifting are slim.

I still have to do the bondo some parts of the rear & front. In addition to alot more sanding.
But here's some crappy phone pics I have at the moment, haven't taken too many but you get the idea.
I know i'll probably get more crap but w/e.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i147/dsdfm48/all4.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i147/dsdfm48/removed-1.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i147/dsdfm48/ba2.jpg

But as you can see, I began to spray some primer before applying the bondo.

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i147/dsdfm48/b4after.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i147/dsdfm48/ba-2.jpg

Btw- there's an old pic of the overall look of the bondo'd interior of my s13 on the 1st pg.

[aoiken3]

wow thats a hell of a lot of bondo there! it looks like the car is held together by it.

[silvialove]

wow thats a hell of a lot of bondo there! it looks like the car is held together by it.

Haha I know
Every spot weld, deep scratches, etc bondo'd :eek3:
But again, a lot of it still needs to be sanded down.

[ixfxi]

you'll most likely be fine...

ive seen a lot worse work out there. at least you are doing it yourself. if you're anything like me (pig-headed), you'll push yourself to remove it yourself if it sucks.

i dynamatted my entire car and fuckin regretted it bigtime. i spent weeks removing that shit. i tell people that putting dynamat is like tar-and-feathering your car, its a fucking nightmare if you plan on running a stripped interior. performance wise, i dont think it reduces noise much. you can use felt-type sound deadener like the stuff thats under the carpet and get much better results, plus its not so permanent nor is it filthy (dynamat runs when its very hot).

r6 summed it up earlier, if it starts to crack the nice thing is it should pop off quite easily since bondo doesnt adhere well, and i agree.

if you want to remove it easily, just get some dry ice.. chances are it will start popping.

[ZX88]

most logical way to of doing this whould getting the surface to bare metal apply primer then apply bondo so you know the metal is sealed in a sense before you bondo it.just my opinion.

[r6_240sx]

i dynamatted my entire car and fuckin regretted it bigtime. i spent weeks removing that shit.Shit, no wonder why you're being so nice!

I saw that you replied to the topic and I was like uh oh this guy is in for it now. Then I read your post and I thought someone hacked your account, haha.

I think you're the only person I've heard from that said it sucks. It's practically the standard in aftermarket stereo. Odd. Did you use the Dynamat original or xtreme? If you used original, nvm then, I feel your pain.

[silvialove]

most logical way to of doing this whould getting the surface to bare metal apply primer then apply bondo so you know the metal is sealed in a sense before you bondo it.just my opinion.

yeah that's what i just started doing.
a little late but better than nothin.

[silvialove]

you'll most likely be fine...

ive seen a lot worse work out there. at least you are doing it yourself. if you're anything like me (pig-headed), you'll push yourself to remove it yourself if it sucks.

i dynamatted my entire car and fuckin regretted it bigtime. i spent weeks removing that shit. i tell people that putting dynamat is like tar-and-feathering your car, its a fucking nightmare if you plan on running a stripped interior. performance wise, i dont think it reduces noise much. you can use felt-type sound deadener like the stuff thats under the carpet and get much better results, plus its not so permanent nor is it filthy (dynamat runs when its very hot).

r6 summed it up earlier, if it starts to crack the nice thing is it should pop off quite easily since bondo doesnt adhere well, and i agree.

if you want to remove it easily, just get some dry ice.. chances are it will start popping.

Yeah i agree with r6.
After i read the HID thread, I was scared that'd you'd see my post.
Thanks for the input.

[bb4_96]

if you're going to be done any time soon will you post aftermath after a week or two?

[lazysk8er2]

i hope hes done its been a fucking year

[LA_phantom_240]

Holy thread revival batman!

[silvialove]

if you're going to be done any time soon will you post aftermath after a week or two?
I wish I stuck to my original plan of trying to finish by the end of this summer but because of:
1) summer school
2) new car- s14
3) lack of motivation
it still stands the way it was when I last posted on this thread.
Yeah, I'm good at making excuses.
I did "finish" smoothing out the p. side so I can post pics of that. Otherwise, the rest is the same.

i hope hes done its been a fucking year
I know...it's just that I just started college and living on campus made it impossible for me to work on it.
The times I did come back, I looked at it and told myself "next time" lol

Holy thread revival batman!
Lol seriousss. Well I guess it was meant to be.
I was hoping everyone forgot.
Summer 2011- expect BIG things :D
I promise this won't be one of those unfinished projects we see too often.

[killer240]

i was in auto body

it wont rust if you do it right.

lets say u got a tiny ding. ur suppose to sand it down to bare metal. fill in bondo... then primer and paint or wateva.

[Sreds13]

I dont know what to say... your one of those guys that decided to go ahead and buy the gallon size Bondo just so youd have some always around...Then you realized you options where endless on what you could "Shave Away" for your 240. And low and behold you discovered the endless amount of possibilties you would have Bondoing the interior... Good GOD man this is crazy the amount of time you have in this and the epic challenge you have ahead has to earn you tons of respect. I hate body work just from painting my silvia two times. This takes the deffanition of tucked to a hole new level. I really want to see where this ends up cause it could go both ways in the end but you sir have the virtue of patients.

Here's the worst point of my 240...
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/Stilllex2/DSC_1216.jpg

[spectra]

bondo doesnt resist water. bondo holds water. water on bondo, on bare metal equals cancer, bondo is junk regardless, but you shall soon find out

oops a lil late

[silvialove]

i was in auto body

it wont rust if you do it right.

lets say u got a tiny ding. ur suppose to sand it down to bare metal. fill in bondo... then primer and paint or wateva.

That's what I thought and from what I can see after taking off pieces of bondo that have been stuck for about a year now there are no signs of visible rust underneath.
But just to make sure I've been following this process: sand down to bare metal, clean, etching primer, clean, & THAN throw filler on top.

I dont know what to say... your one of those guys that decided to go ahead and buy the gallon size Bondo just so youd have some always around...Then you realized you options where endless on what you could "Shave Away" for your 240. And low and behold you discovered the endless amount of possibilties you would have Bondoing the interior... Good GOD man this is crazy the amount of time you have in this and the epic challenge you have ahead has to earn you tons of respect. I hate body work just from painting my silvia two times. This takes the deffanition of tucked to a hole new level. I really want to see where this ends up cause it could go both ways in the end but you sir have the virtue of patients.

Here's the worst point of my 240...
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c56/Stilllex2/DSC_1216.jpg

Lol I actually had no experience with shaving at all before all of this happened. Which has been both rewarding & tortuous. I've already gone through 3 big ass cans of Bondo; mind you most of it has been sanded or needs to be sanded.

I only started this project because I was involved in an earlier incident with my s14 and my insurance was up the roof. I was able to buy this car after making a compromise with my parents that the car wouldn't be driven until my insurance dropped. I couldn't surpress the urge to drive and so I decided to take "preventative measures." And well one thing led to another...

I really appreciate the encouragement & kind words. Only a few people know the amount of time, money, sweat, & blood (literally) I've put into this car.

Btw, I love that pic of your 13. So rawww.

bondo doesnt resist water. bondo holds water. water on bondo, on bare metal equals cancer, bondo is junk regardless, but you shall soon find out

oops a lil late

I don't think that'll be a problem. Like I mentioned earlier, I haven't seen too much signs of visible rust even in areas that are exposed (bare metal).
I know many of you are skeptical and I appreciate the concerns but my only concern right now is finishing.

[silvialove]

Pics as promised.

F. passenger side "finished". R. passenger side needs a lil more work; transmission tunnel as well.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i147/dsdfm48/4-9.jpg

Bare Metal. Exposed. Minimal Rust.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i147/dsdfm48/P8120289.jpg

Next Summer= More updates. See you then! :D
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i147/dsdfm48/P8120302.jpg

[hotrodhendrix]

This thread came up on a google search and thought it was funny. Stated above this would not be one of those project that is never completed... Well its been a few years now.

UPDATE?

[PG BOOSTED]

You sand it first with 40 grit sand paper.

mix the bondo with hardner on a sheet of paper or metal (cardboard absorbs it)

Let the bondo/ hardner mix harden. then feather edge it with 40 grit sand paper then feather with 80 grit sand paper.

repeat 3 times to fill in low spots. then primer.