Upper timing chain guide removal (pics) Rattle quick fix

[Fibercus]

This evening I removed my timing chain's upper guide hoping it would silence the rattling on my S14. I have looked up so much usefull information on the boards and it is the least I can do.

[NOTE: This is a quick fix to remove the Rattling noise]

I followed the information provided by Misnomer @ this post (http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22368&highlight=chain+quest)

Thanks for the info Misnomer, zipped right thru the removal.

Valve Cover
http://home.earthlink.net/~nsevilla/images/01valvecover-ON.jpg

Valve Cover Removed
http://home.earthlink.net/~nsevilla/images/02valvecoverOFF.jpg

Upper chain guide front view
http://home.earthlink.net/~nsevilla/images/03chainguide-viewfront.jpg

Upper chain Guide side view
http://home.earthlink.net/~nsevilla/images/04chainguide-viewtop.jpg

Upper chain guide itself (removed)
http://home.earthlink.net/~nsevilla/images/05chainguide-apart.jpg

Noise was 100% gone after I finished. Whole process took about 25 minutes, and thats taking my time and being extra cautious because I never removed my valve cover before. Turned out A LOT easier than i thought. Anyone with the right sockets can do this NP.

I will be posting the installation of my KYB AGX Strut / Shocks + Eibach Sportlines Suspension as well once I put the pics together. (suspension turned out AWESOME btw)

Thanks all

[MorganS13]

thats a good thing to hear! i'll hopefully be removing my upper guide this weekend if it gets warm enough.

[Fibercus]

Gotta be a 1 on the difficulty scale, should'nt cause you any trouble at all. I think its the same for the previous KA's as well.

EDIT: I didnt have my FSM at the time so I did a cross pattern, I would double check on that before you try it to be safe though.

[silvia240]

is there a specific order you are suposed to used when tighting or loosing the bolts off the valve cover?

[Fibercus]

above post

[s14slide]

Just in time, you save me some of the trouble of doing a search. I've been meaning to do that myself lately, but no time. But seeing as how easy it was, I think I just might do that this weekend. Nice pics by the way. :D

[Luke]

I did this also recently. There are two chain guides that are on that upper chain. One on the very top, and one on the right side of it (facing the engine bay). The first time I removed the upper chain guide hoping that it would make the sound go away. The sound was still there. So 2 nights ago I got in there again to remove the side chain guide on the upper chain. That was more of a difficult task. I had to take off the distributor, then the cam sprocket cover. After that, i could get to the other guide's bolts. Then I took that off and I had to reseal the cover and put everything back. After that the noise was gone.

Also, there is a certain bolt pattern for the valve cover. To remove and install... this is to prevent warping the cover. The chiltons manual showed it all for me.

[four]

thanks for the post man. now that i see how easy it is, im just going to go and do it tonight when I get off work. BTW, what size socket did u use?

[Fibercus]

12MM for the guide bolts, and I beleive 10MM for the valve cover.

there was 11 bolts total on the cover; 4 on each side and 3 along the middle. I am going to check my chilton manual and remove / install the valve cover again to be sure so I dont get any damage.

[s14slide]

hey man, can you post the pattern and torque specs for the valve cover. I'd really appreciate it.

[MorganS13]

U LIED!!! :mad:

2 bolts holding my injector connector housing on wouldn't budge so i had to give up on the plan when i was just that far away from having my valve cover off.. plus my valve cover bolts wouldn't torque down to the 10-12lbs so i just tightened them by hand as far as they would willingly go. now my car stalls out when i push in the clutch too :( god damnit i manage to screw everything up

[slideways240]

dang, bad news morgan. PM me with your phone number if it's still busted this weekend. i'll bring over my FSM maybe we can figure it out.
ben

[240Stilo]

My rattling didn't go away until I removed both upper guides. But, the lower one was loose so that might not be the same case as yours.

[Luke]

Oh man, yeah there's 3 bolts that hold that fuel housing on. Just remove those and it'll be out of the way. By the way, 12lbs of torque is not a lot!! if you tighten them too much you'll strip the holes the bolts go into on the head... I guess they forgot to mention to remove any vacuum hoses, plug wires, and that rail out of the way... It's all easy to figure out

[MorganS13]

Originally posted by Luke
Oh man, yeah there's 3 bolts that hold that fuel housing on. Just remove those and it'll be out of the way. By the way, 12lbs of torque is not a lot!! if you tighten them too much you'll strip the holes the bolts go into on the head... I guess they forgot to mention to remove any vacuum hoses, plug wires, and that rail out of the way... It's all easy to figure out

yea, so close... yet so far. i went out and bought a torque wrench just for that very reason. i set it at 10lbs at first to be safe and i wasn't getting anywhere near it, so i tested it out on the strut tower bolts to make sure it actually worked and i heard it click. i'm not sure what was going on with that, i'm going to be VERY ****ed if the scale is wrong and i was applying more than 10lbs. i figured i'd rather have a leaky seal than strip the threads in my head. this weekend i'm gonna get smart and try and get those fuel housing bolts off BEFORE i take off all the valve cover bolts :o

[misnomer]

Hey look, pictures! :-)

Morgan: Are you using a screwdriver or a 10mm (or 12mm, or whatever it is) ratchet on the injector connector bolts? What trouble are you having with them?

Check your injector connectors, I'd betcha that is the trouble

[Fibercus]

How did I lie? This wastn a HOWTO everyone, theres a search function for that..... All i did was post pics in hopes it would give someone a visual....

I mentioned the post from which I followed the directions ! That is the HOWTO, this was simply a storyboard with pics.

[MorganS13]

Originally posted by Fibercus
How did I lie? This wastn a HOWTO everyone, theres a search function for that..... All i did was post pics in hopes it would give someone a visual....

I mentioned the post from which I followed the directions ! That is the HOWTO, this was simply a storyboard with pics.
i was just messing with u... it was supposed to be a sarcastic "u lied!" my bad

my car has a natural hatred for me and a wrench, seriously theres no other explanation..

EDIT (don't feel like making a new reply): i finally found my 1/4" 10mm socket and i managed to get the bolts loose, but they still put up a damn good fight.

[holisticbeatz]

Originally posted by Luke
Also, there is a certain bolt pattern for the valve cover. To remove and install... this is to prevent warping the cover. The chiltons manual showed it all for me.


Would it possible for you to scan that page on the manual that shows how to properly reinstall the valve cover?

[fiebru1119]

no offense guys but removing/installing the valve cover isnt rocket science. its only 10/12ftlbs !! now a head ok.. but valve cover? just remember to loosen from the outside --> in and tighten from the inside--> out so if this is what your looking at:

1 2 3 4
6 7 8
9 10 11 12

to loosen, go 1,12,4,9,2,11,3,10,6,8,7

and to tighten, go 7,8,6,10,3,11,2,9,4,12,1

my torque wrench's lowest point is 20ft-lbs so to tighten it, i just twist the socket/extension until it doesnt go any further (by hand) and then using the ratchet, make 1/2-1 complete turns. done this many times no leaks.. nothing

Luke, did you remove both the top and side guides?? are you sure thats safe? just curious..

[holisticbeatz]

I followed all the steps posted by Marcus and got done with the job in about 15 minutes. The rattling was completely gone! Thanks Marcus, the pics really helped.

Right when I removed the valve cover, I took one look at the top guide and thought, "HOLY sh*t! I've been driving the car like this for how long already?" The picture should explain it all. The guide was broken and resting on top of the timing chain. The under part of the guide was all worn out from the friction of sitting on the timing chain. I'm so glad I decided to remove it. Who knows what kind of damages could've incurred. I examined the timing chain and it looked alright. There wasn't much slack on it and the chain appeared to be in sturdy condition.

http://www.eniety.com/pichost/pic/broken_guide.jpg

[zero.counter]

Wow Fibercus, great write up! The reason I am making it seem like a lot is because you have pics to show the process. There have been many writeups but no pics fot the less inclined.

With your permission, would you like me to make this into a PDF file and distribute via a F.A.Q. ?

[andrave]

hey I have a big Q for this....
don't you guys worry that those guides were there for a reason?
wouldn't it make more sense to replace them (not too much) than to check them all completely?
I don't know... I'm not sure if it makes a difference.

[Rennen]

IIRC there was some sort of Nissan Technical Service Bulletin pertaining to replacing or inspecting the timing chain on S13s, and this was not done on all cars, so its best to check yours out in case its broken like holisticbeatz's was.


EDIT: ok found em

http://www.nissan-techinfo.com/nissan/TSB/Nissan/240SX_S13_EM.asp?mscssid=

For KA24E:

NTB95027

This bulletin provides Sevice and Countermeasure Parts Information for a rattle or knocking noise from the front of the engine. This may be due to the tension side timing chain guide breaking. The customer may complain of poor engine performance and or hard/no start.

P9010

TSB SERVICE INFORMATION On 1989 240SX vehicles manufactured within the Engine No. Range, the timing chain guide may have a diminished service life resulting in failure at relatively low mileage. This Technical Bulletin contains an inspection and replacement procedure for this incident.



For the KA24DE:

NTB98092

A revised service procedure for the engine front cover/timing chain has been adopted for the KA24DE. It is no longer recommended to remove the cylinder head when removing the timing chain/front cover(s). Utilize the steps in this bulletin when servicing the front cover, timing chain, guides or tensioner(s). See this bulletin for further details.


of course you cant read them unless you have some sort of password, but thats the general idea.

-Matt

[crioten]

ok i understand all the crap on how to do everything else...but my question is, what do i do after taking the guide out?

i would like to inspect mine, but ive no idea what to do when it comes to putting it back together (i know that the bolts need to go back duh)...but do i need a sealant for the cover? or do i just bolt it back? or what?

-glen

[Andrew Bohan]

probably a good idea to get a new valve cover gasket (kit) if yours is at all old. both of my gaskets were broken when i took the cover off :rolleyes:

[Var]

I get a slight rattle for a second when the car is cold. Is it completely safe to get rid of something that nissan put there for a reason? KA24E

[fridexter]

…………………..…………………..

[240Driver39]

okay, what needs to be made clear is

there are 2 different guide issues being talked bout here

the issue with the ka24e is different then the situation on the ka24de

only with the ka24de can u remove the top-upper guide and side upper guide.

u cant remove the guides in the sohc motor, different setup, and different problem there. do a search on here or fa, the info is there.

[DudeYourSoOOJDM]

Fibercus, you have more than one 240?

PM me, we'll go for a drive after you get your suspension.

[Raine]

Before I actually get wrenching, I have a quick question:

Once you take the upper guide off, do you need to reinstall the bolts that held it? Or do those bolts serve the single purpose of holding the upper guide?

[Red]

Originally posted by fridexter
Just to be clear, using a new valve cover gasket, would I need to use sealent?

No you do not need new sealent... Just go to nissan and buy both seals... Dont forget the inner one... Get a chiltons book... (it has all the toruq specs) and get to work...

Its so easy to do... Just make sure you have a toruq rench... Or you could crack your valve cover. (and thats not good).

[rps13sh]

anyone have any info on how to advance my timing?

[misnomer]

(Just a reminder, this thread is almost a year old. . . )

Raine: I'd drop the bolts back in, bettert han leaving two holes to catch dirty oil. . . Their single purpose is to hold the upper guide.

Hollistic: That's exactly what mine looked like :P The noise got terrible one day on the way to work. Fixed it the next day and that's what I found. Scary. . .

Sealant on the valve cover needs only be done on the lower side of the cam thingies (I don't know the name, but the rubber plugs in the head at each end of the camshafts). If you aren't pulling those out, you need no sealant.

Y'all with SOHCs need to completely disregard this thread. That has a completely different timing chain layout --with completely different problems :P

[96twofourty]

Originally posted by rps13sh
anyone have any info on how to advance my timing?
Step 1) Loosen distributor
Step 2) Rotate distrubitor

[13team]

how lose were your timing chain

[007jpang]

hey fibercus pm you about the pictures.

John

[ass15]

so DON'T REPLACE THE CHAIN GUIDE? JUST REMOVE THE 2 GUIDE ON TOP? HUH?

[ass15]

by the way pic not working

[007jpang]

i 2nd that.

[upSLIDEdown]

Pics not working because this thread is 2 years old :smash:

Bryan

[ryan hagen]

any those guys that removed 2 chain guides are gopnna be hurtin, the second one has a oil pressure fed piston that tensions the upper chain, if you took that one off and didnt replace it you got a oil shooting from that spot not to mention a loose upper chain.

[A17Z]

any those guys that removed 2 chain guides are gopnna be hurtin, the second one has a oil pressure fed piston that tensions the upper chain, if you took that one off and didnt replace it you got a oil shooting from that spot not to mention a loose upper chain.

acutally the 2nd timing chain guide your supposed to remove is on the opposite side of the one your talking about.

[speedstar01]

can someone please repost some pics of this procedure of removing the timing chain guides? thanks!

[aznpoopy]

if you need pictures, nico has a faq thread with pics included iirc.

[Gnnr]

WOW! OLD THREAD!

Anyways there are instructions with pics here in the guides section.
http://garage.projectraine.com/