The AIG Melt Down

[imotion s14]

Anyone paying attention to this witch hunt?

People are pissed at the bonuses yet aren't worried about the fact that the 173 billion bailout will never be seen again. :rofl:

The majority of them are screaming "We're rewarding failure!" and yet they don't understand that the rest of the money IS rewarding failure.

[ESmorz]

The Human Race has bred itself into stupidity.

We doomed ourselves.

[Taniguchi_Is_#1]

the US government sponsors manchester united.

[HalveBlue]

http://img.tfd.com/wiki/c/ca/Inflation-1923.jpg

[ronmcdon]

the 173 billion bailout is questionable in itself no doubt,

but the AIG bailout is another problem.
yeah, they probably didn't make the best use of taxpayer funds.
but then again, it was pretty dumb to bring up accountability AFTER the money was given.
It was entertaining to hear lawmakers threaten executives
"We're going to tax your bonuses 100%!!!"

As appealing as it may appear to be, I think lawmakers should have established some rules/clear expectations before making these loans/gifts.
If those same rules/expectations were broken, then you have a legit reason to go after AIG.

In this case, I'm inclined that lawmakers dropped the ball when they made out loans with insufficient accountability.
same deal with Chysler & gm.
probably same deal with the 173 bill loan.

[DrftSLowHomIe!!]

the us government sponsors manchester united.


i hate manchester united!!!!

[S14DB]

Hulu - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart: Jim Cramer Unedited Interview, Part 1 (http://www.hulu.com/watch/62265/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-jim-cramer-unedited-interview-part-1)
Hulu - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart: Jim Cramer Unedited Interview, Part 2 (http://www.hulu.com/watch/62267/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-jim-cramer-unedited-interview-part-2)
Hulu - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart: Jim Cramer Unedited Interview, Part 3 (http://www.hulu.com/watch/62268/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-jim-cramer-unedited-interview-part-3)

[CrimsonRockett]

That interview with Jim Cramer was SO awesome.

Loved every minute of it.

[implayaz9]

USA to be a third world country pretty soon the way they are going.

[Otto347]

http://smiliesftw.com/x/TrainWreck.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

[Gnnr]

USA to be a third world country pretty soon the way they are going.

This just in: Its a WORLDWIDE economic meltdown, everyone's coming with us.

[imotion s14]

This just in: Its a WORLDWIDE economic meltdown, everyone's coming with us.

They're feeling it only because they owned our debt. But they will start to recover once they realize lending money to Americans is like throwing money into a black hole.

[imotion s14]

here's a audio of Peter Schiff on Lew Rockwell's show.. very informative about what happened and what's going on.

YouTube - Peter Schiff on The Lew Rockwell Show 15-03-2009 pt 1/8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEvbP_y0ZX4)
YouTube - Peter Schiff on The Lew Rockwell Show 15-03-2009 pt 2/8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhGlnsujDlU)
YouTube - Peter Schiff on The Lew Rockwell Show 15-03-2009 pt 3/8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvY6yNmllJg)
YouTube - Peter Schiff on The Lew Rockwell Show 15-03-2009 pt 4/8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwCWFM5h4qE)
YouTube - Peter Schiff on The Lew Rockwell Show 15-03-2009 pt 5/8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0bqP2v_c0c)
YouTube - Peter Schiff on The Lew Rockwell Show 15-03-2009 pt 6/8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbSU95GJ-dI)
YouTube - Peter Schiff on The Lew Rockwell Show 15-03-2009 pt 7/8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJqMmPzp9AU)
YouTube - Peter Schiff on The Lew Rockwell Show 15-03-2009 pt 8/8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfKy0jt7n7c)

[mrmephistopheles]

That interview with Jim Cramer was SO awesome.

Loved every minute of it.

Hell yes. Jon Stewart pwned him.

[JohnnyDrfiter22]

Didnt 11 AIG CEOs just resign? I dont understand didnt they get money the first time and again the 2nd time. WTF Government!!!

[DrftSLowHomIe!!]

MAN THE CHIEF IS FUCKING UP! lol
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Sz83qFFwJP4/RzJSBT0EJeI/AAAAAAAABt8/BmHHQgHPFeE/s400/chapelle.jpg

[murda-c]

My friend's grandma got her bonus check on top of her pension from whatever auto company she used to work for.

should i take it away from her?

[Gnnr]

MAN THE CHIEF IS FUCKING UP! lol


You can blame Bush for giving them a bailout. :Ownedd:

[kingkilburn]

It bugs the shit out of me that a comedian is one of the best reporters on TV.

[Pank]

ha, I just got an email that my job is offering 403(b) plans through AIG and TIAA-CREF

[DrftSLowHomIe!!]

It bugs the shit out of me that a comedian is one of the best reporters on TV.


thats because they dont care what others have to say about them, they speak the truth.

[DALAZ_68]

can someone cliffnote me on what goign on with AIG, family and work are kinda swamping my time...

[Gnnr]

More or less from what I pulled from the AIG wiki (a good read btw) this is what happened:

September 16, 2008 - AIG suffered a liquidity crisis following the downgrade of its credit rating.

September 16, 2008 - The United States Federal Reserve gives the largest government bailout of a private company in U.S. history in the form of $85 Billion for a 79.9% equity stake.

September 16, 2008 - AIG's share prices fell over 95% to just $1.25 on September 16, 2008, from a 52-week high of $70.13. The company reported over $13.2 billion in losses in the first six months of the year.

September 22, 2008 - AIG executives participated in a lavish California retreat which cost $444,000 and featured spa treatments, banquets, and golf outings.

September 22, 2008 - AIG was officially removed from the Dow Jones Industrial Average.

September 23, 2008 - Federal Reserve had agreed to give AIG an additional loan of up to $37.8 billion.

October 17, 2008 - AIG executives spent $86,000 on a luxurious English hunting trip.

October 24, 2008 - AIG has drawn a total of $90.3 billion from the emergency loan, of a total $122.8 billion.

November 10, 2008 - AIG spent $343,000 on a trip to a lavish resort in Phoenix, Arizona.

November 10, 2008 - the U.S. Treasury announced it would purchase $40 billion in newly issued AIG senior preferred stock, under the authority of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act's Troubled Asset Relief Program.

March 1, 2009 - U.S. Treasury Department had confirmed that AIG was to get an additional $30 billion in aid, on top of the $150 billion it has already received.

March 2, 2009 - AIG reported a fourth quarter loss of $61.7 billion for the final three months of 2008.

March 2, 2009 - The Treasury Department suggested that the potential losses to the US and global economy would be 'extremely high' if it were to collapse and has suggested that if in future there is no improvement, it will invest more money into the company, as it is unwilling to allow it to fail.

March 13, 2009 - AIG announced that they were paying out $165 million in executive bonuses. Total bonuses for the financial unit could reach $450 million and bonuses for the entire company could reach $1.2 billion. This quickly led to what many label a "populist outrage."

[SimpleS14]

OMG...AIG is just scamming the U.S. gov't to the finest degree. The gov't should just take the company into receivership and do away with this excessive spending. Pay out all policies (to some degree), sell off good assets and close up shop.

[cc4usmc]

Dodd facing fresh political firestorm (http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090318/pl_politico/30833)


Dodd facing fresh political firestorm

Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.) looks like he may be facing a fresh political firestorm.

Dodd just admitted on CNN that he inserted a loophole in the stimulus legislation that allowed million-dollar bonuses to insurance giant AIG to go forward – after previously denying any involvement in writing the controversial provision. .

“We wrote the language in the bill, the deal with bonuses, golden parachutes, excessive executive compensation that was adopted unanimously by the United States Senate in the stimulus bill,” Dodd told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer this afternoon.

“But for that language, there would have been no language to deal with this at all.”

Dodd had previously said that he played no role in writing the controversial language, and was not a part of the conference committee that inserted the language in the bill. As late as today, Dodd’s spokeswoman denied the senator’s involvement.

The AIG bonuses have caused a political firestorm, with Republicans and Democrats alike looking to lay blame for who’s responsible, and leading lawmakers looking to revoke the bonuses.

Dodd’s role in the legislation will likely come up as he faces the likelihood of a tough re-election. Former GOP congressman Rob Simmons announced he was running this week, and has already taken issue with Dodd’s stewardship as chairman of the Senate Banking Committee.

[SochBAT]

FML.

This is the sux.

[JohnnyDrfiter22]

Corrupt Gov officials, and greddy CEOS......America rocks!!

[DALAZ_68]

Corrupt Gov officials, and greedy CEOS......America rocks!!
:ddog: :ddog: :ddog:

[imotion s14]

Corrupt Gov officials, and greddy CEOS......America rocks!!

I would say they are more incompetent. Half a century of mainstream Keynesian economics does that to people.

[theronin]

lol jon stewart nailed him. thanks for the links.

[imotion s14]

Some comedian retard calls out CNBC for being wrong and gets headlines.. yet Peter Schiff goes on CNBC and predicts the melt down before it happens and nothing.

YouTube - Peter Schiff was right 2006-2007 - CNBC edition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YTY5TWtmU)

[Gnnr]

Holy crap that guy was on point! :eek: He wrote a book in 2006 titled "Crash Proof: How to Profit from the Coming Economic Collapse" and it was published in February 26, 2007. Look at how the other pundits foolishly dismiss his claims!

[imotion s14]

Holy crap that guy was on point! :eek: He wrote a book in 2006 titled "Crash Proof: How to Profit from the Coming Economic Collapse" and it was published in February 26, 2007. Look at how the other pundits foolishly dismiss his claims!

It's funny someone mentioned Chris Dodd...

There is a grassroots movement to draft Peter to run against Dodd in the Senate.

Grassroots Central | Peter Schiff 2010 For U.S. Senate (http://www.schiff2010.com/)

[ronmcdon]

Corrupt Gov officials, and greddy CEOS......America rocks!!

agreed. all government officials outside of America can never be corrupt!
lol, what does Greddy have to do with AIG?

[RJF]

First of all, Jon Stewart is an ASS!

Second, the Government and Tim Geithner (Tax Cheat) knew about these bonuses a year ago when he was in charge of the NY Federal Reserve. And why all the outrage? Does anyone complain when Obama got $101,000 from AIG.

Look at the roots of this whole banking mess and you will find the names: Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd at the top of the list.

[DALAZ_68]

LOL...




OMG...





Were so FUCKED...

[ronmcdon]

What does Jimmy Carter have to do with this?
Please elaborate.

[imotion s14]

What does Jimmy Carter have to do with this?
Please elaborate.

I think he's referring to the Community Reinvestment Act.. of course he overlooks Neocon's shenanigans as well.

[RJF]

of course he overlooks Neocon's shenanigans as well.

What shenanigans? Didn't Bush and McCain try to fix the problem back in 2003?

[imotion s14]

What shenanigans? Didn't Bush and McCain try to fix the problem back in 2003?

There wouldn't have been any shenanigans to fix if Bush lived up to his "fiscal conservative" moniker and told the truth after the dot.com bubble imploded.

As Peter Schiff said, Bush could have left a better legacy for Republicans. Had he used that opportunity to repudiate the "Clinton Economy" which was bubble economy caused by low interest rate.

Instead he and Greenspan lowered interest rates to 1% and bragged about the "shallow recession" of 2001/2002 when all they did was postpone it and created an even larger bubble. He didn't want a recession during his presidency because it would damper his re-election down the line.

Instead of shrinking government, these neocon clowns doubled the size of government and ran up deficits. Now all of a sudden they're fiscal conservatives again. But they no longer have any moral legs to stand on as the Democrats push this country closer and closer to socialism and financial ruin.

[Grendel]

First of all, Jon Stewart is an ASS!



LOL

Of course you would think he is an ass, he has been ragging on your heroes for the last 8 years.

[RJF]

Like I said, Bush tried to fix the problem, but his hands were tied. He was hated from Day 1 of his Presidency by the sore-losers who said the election was stolen.

cMnSp4qEXNM

You are right, he made mistakes too, but considering what he had to do after 9/11 to keep this country safe, some conservative principles had to be compromised.

[kingkilburn]

Even mentioning 9/11 in this thread is opening a can of worms. Most people in this country don't agree with the actions taken.

[DrftSLowHomIe!!]

Even mentioning 9/11 in this thread is opening a can of worms. Most people in this country don't agree with the actions taken.


Oh looks like this thread is gonna start turnin bad

[drftwerks]

You are right, he made mistakes too, but considering what he had to do after 9/11 to keep this country safe, some conservative principles had to be compromised.

what a fucking cop out.

he would not be able to do shit about it.

9-11 saved him to not having to deal with it, you think if the election went different, the state of affairs would be?

give me a fucking break.

[SimpleS14]

Oh looks like this thread is gonna start turnin bad

QFT :drama:

[Otto347]

The apocalypse just needs to happen so we can get it over with.............

[SochBAT]

"War is not measured by who is right, but by who is left."

Seriously. Fast forward a decade or so.

I really want to be living in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.

Zombies, Guns, and Looting.

[SimpleS14]

RJF - To answer your sig....

Yes :]

[imotion s14]

Like I said, Bush tried to fix the problem, but his hands were tied. He was hated from Day 1 of his Presidency by the sore-losers who said the election was stolen.

That's why he let it happened, right? The housing boom was a house of cards but he didn't care because of all the phony prosperity it was creating during his term of office.

One thing I will say is Bush legitimately inherited the Clinton bubble since he was a State Governor. Obama on the other hand was a Senator during the bubble so he was directly part of the government during the bubble.

You are right, he made mistakes too, but considering what he had to do after 9/11 to keep this country safe, some conservative principles had to be compromised.So you're willing to give up liberty for the sake of feeling secure.

Has anything Bush done make us any safer? How do you quantify that?

The greatest empires in the world weren't defeated with military force, they collapsed from within by over extending themselves and going bankrupted.

[imotion s14]

RJF - To answer your sig....

Yes :]

Wait until the dollar heads to 0.

[kingkilburn]

What the fuck does conservative vs liberal or the president at the time have to do with corrupt greedy banking? Can we keep personal agendas and ideologies out of something that has nothing to do with them?

[imotion s14]

What the fuck does conservative vs liberal or the president at the time have to do with corrupt greedy banking? Can we keep personal agendas and ideologies out of something that has nothing to do with them?

Has everything to do with it if you understand the cause of the "meltdown". It was created by loose monetary policy and government fiscal policy (both party) and their interference in the economy. But you're right, that's going off on a tangent.

[kingkilburn]

The reality that I see is greedy dishonest banking caused the melt down. No matter the policy at the moment the banks and stock market seem to find a way to undermine the trust of those who own the money they are playing with. The attitudes of the Federal Reserve don't help either.

I will agree that both presidents have squandered billions by giving handouts with no stipulations. If they would give that money directly to the people WE would bail out the banks and the auto industry based on what WE want to keep around.

[imotion s14]

The reality that I see is greedy dishonest banking caused the melt down. No matter the policy at the moment the banks and stock market seem to find a way to undermine the trust of those who own the money they are playing with. The attitudes of the Federal Reserve don't help either.

and where did they get all that credit to leverage in the first place? The central banksters who kept lending rates artificially low for too long. No one stuck guns to people's head and told them to buy a house.

They bought houses for the same reasons the investors and brokers who bought up the securitized mortgages did. They thought that housing prices would never fall and that their investment.

I will agree that both presidents have squandered billions by giving handouts with no stipulations. If they would give that money directly to the people WE would bail out the banks and the auto industry based on what WE want to keep around.

Sure, they can print each of us 100,000,000,000 dollars. Then we'd all be rich, right?

[RJF]

So you're willing to give up liberty for the sake of feeling secure.


There's that line again. What liberties have you lost in the past eight years?

And if said liberties were lost, do you really think you would get them back.

Under this administration you will lose more rights. Like what health insurance you want, the type of car you can drive and what you can do with your own money.


The reality that I see is greedy dishonest banking caused the melt down.


Wrong. It was the politicians that caused the meltdown. Politicians like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd forcing banks to loan money to people that had no right getting a mortgage.

[mrflip69]

Patriot Act -- probable cause to do whatever the hell we want. But I'll agree, government IS the problem. Americans lost their balls somewhere along the way (maybe because of the terrorists, maybe before)... and now the government uses the people as its doormat. Fuck that.

[kingkilburn]

I will not absolve those idiots who bought into very bad loans from responsibility but it is the bankers' job to decide what is to much risk. They got to greedy.

Now you have people like my mom who's homes are worth half of what they still have to pay. She can afford her home, but why should she half to. She could move to the rental next door and pay less for the same life style and let the bank eat her loan.

I will add that she wasn't speculating on the housing market when she got her house. This is where she plans to live the rest of her life. Now it's not worth staying.

[RJF]

I will not absolve those idiots who bought into very bad loans from responsibility but it is the bankers' job to decide what is to much risk. They got to greedy.

Now you have people like my mom who's homes are worth half of what they still have to pay. She can afford her home, but why should she half to. She could move to the rental next door and pay less for the same life style and let the bank eat her loan.

I will add that she wasn't speculating on the housing market when she got her house. This is where she plans to live the rest of her life. Now it's not worth staying.

I'm sorry about your Mom's situation, but she like millions of other homeowners, are victims of the situation. Real estate, like many other things is an investment, sometimes it goes up, sometimes is goes down. But the attitude on why should she continue paying her mortgage is because she signed a contract, When the economy recovers the value of housing will increase again, not at the boom rate, but values will appreciate.

As for the person that said they were better off today than on Jan 20th. Evidently you don't have investments that are down 20% since that date and with the proposed budget and out-of-control deficit spending that Obama has proposed for socialized healthcare and his energy taxes we are heading in a very dangerous direction where the economy could really tank.

As for the whole AIG hoopla, that was nothing but a smokescreen by the administration. Did you hear that the government authorized the "creation" if $1Trillion to pump into the economy? Not only does that de-value the US dollar, but puts us on the path to run-away inflation or hyper-inflation. You think things are bad now, just wait for that to kick in.

[ESmorz]

http://zilvia-images.s3.amazonaws.com/Better%20Off.jpg
http://zilvia-images.s3.amazonaws.com/Better%20Off.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/8421/misc.jpg

It's all bullshit.

You're all bullshit.

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

http://zilvia-images.s3.amazonaws.com/Better%20Off.jpg
http://zilvia-images.s3.amazonaws.com/Better%20Off.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/8421/misc.jpg

It's all bullshit.

You're all bullshit.

Its sad when you have someone so far right or so far left. Its funny because RJF may claim that personalities like Jon Stewart are comedians but forget that Rush Limbau was a standard radio personality who absolutely FAILED in radio until he pandered to the far right wing. NOW hes the messiah and his words should be taken seriously right?

Again, like I said, its sad when someon is so far right or left because they can never believe their side did anything wrong. Blame needs to stop being passed.

[ronmcdon]

Well if you live in CA, you're more or less immersed in political fanatics on both sides.
That aside, I think there is a difference in say a conservative extremist, & bush fanatic.
Not all conservatives are supportive of Bush.

[SimpleS14]

As for the person that said they were better off today than on Jan 20th. Evidently you don't have investments that are down 20% since that date....

You're right, my investments are down 8% YTD....of course it was far worse before that date....


I'm better off in general because I'm scooping up stocks and ETFs while it's cheap and keeping my debt in check (got some help from a bank that's actually lending).

[ESmorz]

Its sad when you have someone so far right or so far left. Its funny because RJF may claim that personalities like Jon Stewart are comedians but forget that Rush Limbau was a standard radio personality who absolutely FAILED in radio until he pandered to the far right wing. NOW hes the messiah and his words should be taken seriously right?

Again, like I said, its sad when someon is so far right or left because they can never believe their side did anything wrong. Blame needs to stop being passed.

Eh, I don't care where his politics lie.

In the broad spectrum it doesn't matter one bit what he thinks or what I think.

[DALAZ_68]

any updates on this...

[renegade_ewok]

any updates on this...
This just in: Shit is still hitting the fan.