handling

[moose]

I keep being told that since my car is RWD, than any car that is RWD will handle the same. Is this true, because I don't think so. My sister's boyfriend wants me to get a 95 Camaro, and I tell him that they don't handle as good as a 240, but he insists they do.

A camaro would be sweet, but I don't know what the handling and reliablity is like.

[Stee Flo]

thats bull if i ever heard it. I know 240s handle better than mustangs and their rwd. It depends on the car.

[slideways240]

you're sisters bf is a toolbag...camaros are much heavier than 240's and have a crappy solid rear axle. if you're going to get a camaro get it for whats it's good at..going fast in a straight line. and dont forget to grow out you 10/90

[orange-grey]

A 2800 lb. car with well designed IRS and a 3400 lb. car with a solid rear axle are going to handle way differently. I'm not going to say you can't make a Camaro handle decently, since I auto-x with some pretty fast F-bodies, but its a much different style. I like to compare it to choosing between a ninja sword or a sledgehammer. Each will get the job done, but you have to choose whats right for you. A 240 relies most on good supension geometry and balance to maintain speed though a corner. The Camaro's advantage is tons of grip and power despite lots of sloppyness, especially over bumps. Having driven a couple F-bodies though, I can tell you they are not a "driver's car", and driving them hard is more of a struggle than recreational. Plus the dash looks like something that came out of a fire at a Playskool factory.

[mrdirty]

Originally posted by moose
.. than any car that is RWD will handle the same. Is this true,.....

yes, absolutely; it has nothing to do w/ geometry, center of gravity, tires, engine, suspension....:rolleyes:

don't waste your money w/ sports cars, go buy a oldsmobile cutlass and kick some a$$!

[moose]

Originally posted by mrdirty
yes, absolutely; it has nothing to do w/ geometry, center of gravity, tires, engine, suspension....:rolleyes:

don't waste your money w/ sports cars, go buy a oldsmobile cutlass and kick some a$$!

ha ha ha ha.......... nooooooooooo........crap.

[slideways240]

i never thought of that advantage...i'm gonna take my diesel work truck to the autocross this weekend and show those non-handling FWD EK civics who's boss

[rash]

Originally posted by mrdirty
yes, absolutely; it has nothing to do w/ geometry, center of gravity, tires, engine, suspension....:rolleyes:

don't waste your money w/ sports cars, go buy a oldsmobile cutlass and kick some a$$!

:p :p :p :p :p :p

believe me i cant stop.:p :p :cool:

[96SEChick]

Originally posted by mrdirty
yes, absolutely; it has nothing to do w/ geometry, center of gravity, tires, engine, suspension....:rolleyes:

don't waste your money w/ sports cars, go buy a oldsmobile cutlass and kick some a$$!

LMAO--there's a guy in the Northeastern OK SCCA that did that one day for the driver's school

http://www.kellydrown.com/sCCAjun02/crw_4686_std.jpg
Photo taken by Kelly Drown of www.projecttransam.com

[moose]

Originally posted by orange-grey
A 2800 lb. car with well designed IRS and a 3400 lb. car with a solid rear axle are going to handle way differently. I'm not going to say you can't make a Camaro handle decently, since I auto-x with some pretty fast F-bodies, but its a much different style. I like to compare it to choosing between a ninja sword or a sledgehammer. Each will get the job done, but you have to choose whats right for you. A 240 relies most on good supension geometry and balance to maintain speed though a corner. The Camaro's advantage is tons of grip and power despite lots of sloppyness, especially over bumps. Having driven a couple F-bodies though, I can tell you they are not a "driver's car", and driving them hard is more of a struggle than recreational. Plus the dash looks like something that came out of a fire at a Playskool factory.

What's the deal with the solid rear axle on the Camaro? Is that true of the 1995 version? I'm going to have to learn alot about good suspension setups for a camaro, but I just want something with a little more power, for less $$. That's what it's all about, being able to have a wicked fast car, for beans. Well atleast I think it is. I'm not willing to pay 5 g's for a frigin' turbo kit, it's just plain dumb.

Anyways does anyone else have any expirience with a Camaro?

[misnomer]

I've got a friend with a 2000 Formula Firebird. Fast as hell in a straight line, and better at turning than these guys seem to imply. He's got a decent set of R rated tires, and from the passenger seat it feels like he may give my s13 a run for it's money in roadholding. . .

[whateverjames]

Originally posted by moose
What's the deal with the solid rear axle on the Camaro? Is that true of the 1995 version?
Yep, as well as the Camaros before and after.

I'm not willing to pay 5 g's for a frigin' turbo kit, it's just plain dumb.

Damn right. I have better things to spend my money on :cool:

[96SEChick]

My bf has a '00 WS6 Trans Am. He's 100% stock suspension-wise, with stock 17" wheels & had the original tires on it during the last auto-x season. He has 317hp to the rear wheels--with only an aftermarket airbox and K&N. His best 1/4 mile was on a crappy, slippery-smooth drag strip and was a 13.5 (losing traction in 1, 2, & 3).

Handling-wise?! His car rocks when it comes to grip-driving. Very stable, very little body roll--considering it's weight and size. His car is also more comfortable to ride in than my S14. His is much more forgiving on uneven roads, whereas my car will beat you to death. His does seem to handle better on certain turns--part of the reason is that he has wider meats on his car, and I have my 6.5" cheap-hardasnails-tires.

When trying to decide between an F-body or an S13/S14--a lot of it will be personal preference in styling/size/looks. The pricetag is quite different as well. If you want a car that's quicker and faster (yes, they do mean different things when it comes to cars) while stock, a Camaro/Trans Am may be a good choice. If you want a car that you can modify to be as quick/fast as an F-body, the 240SX may be the winner. It's all in what you want in the car. Both are awesome cars--looks-wise and performance-wise (I guess I'm the only one here that likes the dash in the Trans Am).

But, after my rambling, I'll tell you that you need to tell that guy that all RWD cars ride/handle DIFFERENT --he's an idiot (even if he is your sister's boyfriend).

[Jeff240sx]

Originally posted by moose
Anyways does anyone else have any expirience with a Camaro?

Yea. They all hang out at the CAMARO BOARDS!
It's the truth. You have wasted enough people's time (mine especially) asking questions about sr motors and ka-t's. Then, you insult the people who have spent $5k in one day, and many thousands later.
To this I'll say my ka-t ($2,250) at 4.35 psi handed a z28 it's ass on the street from a stoplight, and ran with a '02 Cobra untill 60. Also, from driving a Camaro, it's too large for me, and nobody can see the front of them from the driver seat. You just kinda guess how to park it. They are also very heavy feeling, and the Hurst shifter sucks. The clutch is too heavy for the little power they put out. I don't like them, but that's just my opinion.
-Jeff

[mrdirty]

Originally posted by moose
ha ha ha ha.......... nooooooooooo........crap.

THEN WHY ASK?:rolleyes:

[moose]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
Yea. They all hang out at the CAMARO BOARDS!
It's the truth. You have wasted enough people's time (mine especially) asking questions about sr motors and ka-t's. Then, you insult the people who have spent $5k in one day, and many thousands later.

Yeah well sorry for asking questions jeff. I seem to remember you saying, "Lay off!
Either guide him in the right direction, or don't fu*king post!
-Jeff" Yeah that's you Jeff, so don't start stuff.


Originally posted by Jeff240sx
To this I'll say my ka-t ($2,250) at 4.35 psi handed a z28 it's ass on the street from a stoplight, and ran with a '02 Cobra untill 60.
Also, from driving a Camaro, it's too large for me, and nobody can see the front of them from the driver seat. You just kinda guess how to park it. They are also very heavy feeling, and the Hurst shifter sucks. -Jeff

The clutch is too heavy for the little power they put out.
Ha that's a real good one. How does 275 hp and 325 (lbs-ft) Torque sound? And that's STOCK!! Pretty damn good. Yeah and that torqe is at 2000 rpm, that'll get you off the line quicker than a 240 ever will.

Originally posted by Jeff240sx Also, from driving a Camaro, it's too large for me, and nobody can see the front of them from the driver seat.

Yeah that's because your a wimp. Yep, your a little baby, that can't handle it. Have you ever driven a truck with 35's on it? Probably not. And by the way you can see the front of them from the driver seat.

[transient]

Whoa, I will NOT watch a fellow moderator be talked to like that. I hope you enjoyed that post, it may very well be your last here.

[moose]

Originally posted by transient
Whoa, I will NOT watch a fellow moderator be talked to like that. I hope you enjoyed that post, it may very well be your last here.

just speaking the truth.

[96SEChick]

Originally posted by moose
just speaking the truth.

Yeah, and opinions are like assholes--everybody has one and nobody wants to see anyone else's. You asked for opinions, Jeff gave you his opinion. You DO NOT talk to anybody like that whom is giving you what you asked. He isn't telling you that you won't like driving a Camaro--he's telling you that HE doesn't like driving a Camaro.

You're not speaking the truth--you're speaking out of your ass. I have been nice to you in the past, trying to help you when you needed it, but you're getting WAY out of line with your stupid questions. If you want to know something about F-bodies, go to www.LS1.com --don't ask here. I'm getting sick of your inability to search, and your requests for opinions--then insulting us because we're giving you opinions you don't like. Shut the hell up.

[moose]

Originally posted by 96SEChick
Yeah, and opinions are like assholes--everybody has one and nobody wants to see anyone else's. You asked for opinions, Jeff gave you his opinion. You DO NOT talk to anybody like that whom is giving you what you asked. He isn't telling you that you won't like driving a Camaro--he's telling you that HE doesn't like driving a Camaro.

You're not speaking the truth--you're speaking out of your ass. I have been nice to you in the past, trying to help you when you needed it, but you're getting WAY out of line with your stupid questions. If you want to know something about F-bodies, go to www.LS1.com --don't ask here. I'm getting sick of your inability to search, and your requests for opinions--then insulting us because we're giving you opinions you don't like. Shut the hell up.

yep whoa eh take a chill pill. The only thing I didn't like about what Jeff said was how he had a lack of respect for myself and the others that are relitively new to this forum. I didn't come here to start trouble. I have been into 240's for about 5 years now and I've read alot that is available. That doesn't mean I'm a genious or anything, I still have my troubles. I know you guys are frustrated with my questions, and I understand why. Here why:
If I went to www.LS1.com, you know what they'd tell me?
"Oh get a Z28 Camaro, their awesome!!"
"Way better than those imports!! RICE HA HA HA"

That's exactly what they'd say because I tried that. Why do you think I ask you guys. TO GET STRAIGHT ANSWERS.

I know now that when someone wants to buy a 240 they ask you about it, and you say "they are great cars, reliable and fun".
Now that's true and everything, but it's based on what you think and you think this because you are tied up in the 240 world man.

I was hoping that someone would have driven a Camaro and they could have told me all about it 'n stuff, and I did get a little of that. But it's just that some people's optold me all about it 'n stuff, and I did inions are way off the hook. I think the only reason why Jeff didn't like his expirience with a camaro is because he tried to treat it like a 240. They are different in weight and power. They could be the same in weight and power easily but who really wants to get into that. Ergghh.

I'm sorry for what I said to Jeff, it was wrong. But seriously Jeff, you did say some pretty dumb things though... no offense. I got too into it, and I was wrong. Sorry.

You just can't ask a ford driver if his ford is any good. You need to talk to the chevy guys.

Moose

[MorganS13]

i guess i'm one of the few 240 owners that loves F-bodies and stangs as well... i was workin on a buddys 5.0 today and his friend with a newer saleen s-281 S/C came up, that thing was GORGEOUS and had balls to back it up. our local car club started out as an f-body/dsm board so that probbaly has something to do with my opinions.
BTW one of the guys on this board has a near stock 2001 Formula WS6 that ran 12.585 @ 111.60, not too shabby for a factory freak ;) theres also a couple turbo/supercharged LS1s around here, i just drool thinkin about it :p

i just realized this has nothing to do with the original post, haha, its not hurting anyone so i'll post it anyway

[transient]

Originally posted by moose
yep whoa eh take a chill pill. The only thing I didn't like about what Jeff said was how he had a lack of respect for myself and the others that are relitively new to this forum.


Jeff didn't hand you disrespect because you're a newbie and don't know everything about 240s, he just brought up the fact that you need to do some of your own research and not always rely on other people. Granted he could have done so a bit more nicely, but it get's quite tiring hearing the same questions over and over and over again. Honestly, you've got to admit that the question you asked in this thread is a complete no brainer.

Also, it's just not cool to disrespect a moderator like that. I'm not sure if you realize it, but we're volunteering our time on here trying to make this a better place for you. If you think jeff was harsh, try going to freshalloy and seeing what thier response would have been.

[Jsquared]

Handling-wise?! His car rocks when it comes to grip-driving. Very stable, very little body roll--considering it's weight and size. His car is also more comfortable to ride in than my S14. His is much more forgiving on uneven roads, whereas my car will beat you to death. His does seem to handle better on certain turns--part of the reason is that he has wider meats on his car, and I have my 6.5" cheap-hardasnails-tires.
there is a HUGE difference between lateral grip and handling.

i have driven stock F-bodies, both LT1s and LS1s, and know people who track them (turns, not strip). anyone who thinks an F-body can handle with a mildly-suspension-modded S13/S14 either can't drive or doesn't know what handling is. say what you will about me or my biases but it's fact whether you like it or not.

Ha that's a real good one. How does 275 hp and 325 (lbs-ft) Torque sound? And that's STOCK!! Pretty damn good. Yeah and that torqe is at 2000 rpm, that'll get you off the line quicker than a 240 ever will.

out a 5.7L engine those stats are pathetic. and yes, the torque peaks at 2000rpm, what the **** does that matter if you're launching at 3000 or 3500? NONE. and the power stops at 5000 and redline is 5500-6100. KAs run to 6,900 and SRs run to 7,500. try getting a clue before arguing with knowledgable people...

[96SEChick]

Originally posted by Jsquared
i have driven stock F-bodies, both LT1s and LS1s, and know people who track them (turns, not strip). anyone who thinks an F-body can handle with a mildly-suspension-modded S13/S14 either can't drive or doesn't know what handling is. say what you will about me or my biases but it's fact whether you like it or not.

I realize that this thread is turning into a flame-war, but I have to say my piece on this statement. I know I'll probably get a few more flames, but I don't care. This is my experience w/ the TA and my S14. Granted my S14 is 4 years older than the WS6, but this is the experience with our two cars.

Chris drove my car during an auto-x. He is very used to my car The reason for this statement is because I know some of you are going to come back w/ the "But he doesn't drive your car as much as he drives his, so he's more used to his car." Well, he DOES drive my S14 more than he drives his TA--he has a daily driver, so the TA stays in the garage except for once or twice a month. My car is VERY well-maintained (100% perfect mechanical and suspension condition), has very new tires (although they're cheap), and I feel it handles wonderfully. His car was raced on the same track--the same day, and with crappy tires (hard as rocks, 2 of the 4 were almost bald & the other two were worn unevenly), heavy-ass 16" rims from an LT1 Z28 (the salad-shooters). This was a VERY tight track--3 slaloms and many hairpins--1 decent straightaway. He drove his car 7 seconds faster than mine--and he drove the piss out of mine perfectly (beating the other 9 people in my class). He beat my time by 8 seconds.

Now, you tell me why the best driver in F-stock can beat everybody in F-Stock and G-Stock and E-stock (my old class before they changed classifications for the 240SX), with crappy tires, when everybody else had suspension mods & race tires--since you think that F-bodies don't handle or grip-turn-race as well as a 240SX! Your statement is not 100% fact. Or maybe neither Chris nor I know what handling really means. :confused: :mad:

[Jeff240sx]

Allright Moose.
Are you saying that I've never helped you? Are you saying that I haven't spent my time answering your PMs? Are you saying that I haven't been the only one to answer your questions in the previous months? Are you saying this?
I give most everyone a break, untill someone states an opinion as a fact. You said "I'm not spending $5k, thats just dumb." Yea? Chris May, TY, me, BoostedS14, Aubrey, Greaser, Dennis, and many others will tell you to screw off for that one statement.
275hp for 5.7L is pathetic. That's barely 50hp/L. Meanwhile, after $8k I'll have 150hp/L.
Also, F-bodies have a short, sloping front end that drivers CAN NOT see the front of, unless you're tall I guess. I can't see the front, nor can my 6'3" friend with a Firebird. Also, have you driven a 240sx with a SPEC stage 3 clutch? Nice, easy actuation of the clutch, that supports 350ft/lbs of torque. The 3.4L camaro with 170bhp has a clutch pedal that is 3x the effort.
Anyway. I don't have a problem with you. I simply had a problem with that first statement. I also answered your question.
Without a doubt, you wouldn't be here if not for the apology, so just don't blow up at me. I know that for the past few months I've been the only one to answer your questions.
-Jeff

[96SEChick]

Jeff--can we close this? This is getting nowhere fast (I know I contributed, but I got tired of the ignorance of this thread).

[Jeff240sx]

Yea. We can.
Moose, if you have anything else to say / ask, PM me.
-Jeff