Kind of confused - RB swap done, not running right... PIC

[opponheimer]

http://www.bizlocker.com/cars/rb/mini-P1000325.JPG

I thought with MAFS cars a larger intake manifold and throttle body wouldn't affect the runnability that much...

My symptoms:

1. Car starts fine, idles slightly rough, running very rich.
2. When i blip the throttle, car almost dies, engine nearly floods.

Car has q45 tb, freddy intake manifold, gt3582r turbo, has all sensors wired and hooked up, and no known boost leaks. Car has stock injectors too.

[tt99ol]

hows your timing
and what rpm is it idling at
and get an adjustable fpr
im guessing you have a bigger fuel pump
rbs run too rich with a 255lph pump

[RaceBredS14]

Yea definitely get an adjustable fpr whether it be a nismo or whatever, you DO need one

[sliddinsil8o]

tune? or are you still running stock ecu?

[ANVIL]

came here to post all the things mentioned.

is your MAF stock?

[Yellow4g63]

could be unmetered air entering into the motor.

[drift freaq]

hows your timing
and what rpm is it idling at
and get an adjustable fpr
im guessing you have a bigger fuel pump
rbs run too rich with a 255lph pump

Ah excuse me, but I ran a 255lph fuel pump in my car with no problems. Yes I had a RB25 yes it had a q45 throttle body with a Greddy intake, HKS GT2530, Power FC and then I upgraded to a Z32 MAF and 550 injectors. I will say he is running an awfully big turbo for stock injectors. I would also say he needs to get some type of tuning aka ecu wise with that turbo as well as a Z32 MAF and bigger injectors.

With that turbo I would suggest at least 550's possibly 740's. Seeing as he did not tell us his MAF what he is describing can happen by putting on a bigger MAF with stock injectors and no ecu tuning.

[dsc4130]

Ah excuse me, but I ran a 255lph fuel pump in my car with no problems. you can an rb on a 255 but it does run rich. my rb20 blows carbon all over the back of my car cause im too lazy to go tune my car.
OP you should have prolly researched your setup before you put it all together and hoped it ran. you cant run a turbo that big on stock injectors, maf, and such

[TURBOMAN]

check your ECU my SR was doing the same thing it was making my engine run rich and every time i gave it a little gas it would idle rough. So the ECU was making the Engine run in Limp mode...

[ANVIL]

you have to upgrade your fuel pump when you do an RB swap to run properly. but you also must have a fuel pressure regulator to adjust to correct fuel pressure. OP has to chime back in with more details

[opponheimer]

sorry just got back from WV from burying my grandma...

i dont know how to check the ecu for codes without a consult device. it has the stock mafs and i do plan on running 740s. it has stock fpr too, but i didnt think that would matter.

i'm gunna post a video soon enough

[ANVIL]

well i dont know how it would run untuned with all those extra aftermarket parts but you definately need to get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and upgraded fuel pump

[WhatsADSM]

Check for boost leaks. Like yellow said it could be unmetered air screwing everything up.

Otherwise the first 2 sensors I would check would be the O2 sensor and the MAF.

A consult would help you a TON here. Not just to read codes, but also to make sure all the sensors are operating correctly.

[finesses240]

Check the distance between the maf and the turbo. It needs to be at least 12in to 14 in away from the turbo. If not the turbulence will cause the maf to mis read thus the dying. Customer brought us a 510 that was doing the same thing, changed the distance and no more dying problem.

[tt99ol]

do you have an air filter?
i dont see one in the pic
thats a good start
if you take the filter off there is too much turbulence
then the car runs crappy at idle

[finesses240]

Looks like in your pic that the maf is way to close to the turbo. Extend it and I bet that solves all problems.

[opponheimer]

Well its about 15" from the turbo.. i dont know... I am hearing a fluttering noise near the cam gears... not sure what it is, its when i rev the car up. could it be VTC solenoid? Frayed timing belt maybe?

[swayray]

i maybe wrong but you may need slightly larger injectors since you are running a larger turbo. Definitely get an FPR as you have to play with the air/fuel mixture. You may want to look into getting a power fc or an SAFC if you don't want to spend much on an a/f controller.

[Z U L8R]

make sure you have the 2 vacuum bungs capped off on the q45 throttle body that stick out at 9 o clock and 3 o clock.

also, i'm not implying this is your culprit, but i figured it was important to bring up for you and others.

i'm not sure what the stock rb throttle body diameter is off the top of my head, but if i had to guess i'd say it was in the ball park of 60mm. the q45 is 90mm. the tps on both are a 0-5volt sensor that will plug right into the rb engine harness. with the q45 throttle body opened at what the ecu see's voltage wise as 20%, there is a lot more air entering the intake manifold than there is with the rb throttle body opened at 20%.

to help you find the real problem out the fastest.

1. unplug your maf and see if it starts

2. does your "custom" intake manifold have the stock idle air control valve on it. if not then you need to crack open the q45 throttle body with the little throttle stop screw (8mm lock nut on it)

3. did you power up the light blue wire aka the power for the sensors, ie iacv, o2, etc?

4. is your rb25 series 1 or 2? (do you have an external ignitor?)

and something totally random and off topic
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Z_U_L8R/Meonr34gtrblackwhite.jpg
i has teh RB h4x!!! @[email protected]

ur timing should look like this
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Z_U_L8R/rb26enginebay1.jpg
i rox joo rb engine!!

check ur timing like this
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Z_U_L8R/Meonr34gtr9.jpg

and then ur car will vroom vroom like this
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Z_U_L8R/r34gtrfront7.jpg

lol

just giving u shit, don't listen to me i have no idea what i'm talking about

*hug

Dave

[opponheimer]

i've heard of people using an alternate wire for sensor power... i need to search for what it is... my sensors are getting power, and my q45 tb nipples are all blocked off too. Did your car have a difficult time running with q45 tb on stock ecu?? I'm about ready to say the hell with it and hook my aem up

[Z U L8R]

then it'll run even worse >_< zomg lol

good @ u powered up the light blue wire aka sensor power

check the voltage on your q45 tps, it should test out the same as every other nissan tps, you should be .5v closed and 4.__ wide open throttle

Dave

[Z U L8R]

After that, make sure you have good power runnin through your stuff. make sure you have a good battery and make sure your alternator is putting out 13.8-14.4 volts with it idling

if you still haven't found your problem, then we're gonna get a little more serious. Are you running a TJ or G9 ecu? if it's neither, tell me the big 2 letter/numbers on your Ecu.

then grab urself an ecu pinout and verify you have BOTH wires going to the 1 Degree cam angle sensor pins at the ecu as well as the 120 degree signal pins. you will have 2 wires for each, one on the top row of the ecu and the other wire directly beneath it.

off topic once again. Oppenheimer you've been on the forum for a while so i'm gonna be real with you and not sugar coat shit.

you have a decent sized turbo on your motor and if no one gives you honest advice, once you do get it running good you can easily blow your shit up if you push it.

1. if you wanna push it passed 320hp get yourself some arp head studs and a metal head gasket.

2. if you wanna push it passed 350hp, build your bottom end, bare minimum forged pistons and arp rod bolts with shot-peened or other various methods of hardening your stock rods (i'd stay 9:1 if your final goal is ~500hp give or take a little). It'd be in your best interest to get a decent set of rods though....you might as well you got decent money tied up in this car

3. the stock 370cc injectors won't give you issues at the 330hp area, so if you go throwing 324,982,309,842cc injectors in there you're gonna have shitty idle and driveability. i was only pushing my 550's to 75-80% at 440hp

4. unless you NEED 2 step, launch control, trans brake, and nitrous solenoids, don't get the aem. the driveability is soooooo much better with a power fc. i'll give you more info on that later, i gotta go.

check what i told you to check and lemme know what you find. take it ez

Dave

[opponheimer]

Thanks Dave

I already purchased AEM and I have nismo 740's for when I tune the car, right now the stock 386CCs are in there. My ecu is from a series 1 I'm pretty sure (i have an s2 motor), I'll have to get the ECU Code. Its funny you say I will need to build my motor for such small HP gains, I know it will be more dependable with the build, but I've heard of people making large quantities of power on stock engine. I'm not going to fix the engine if its not broke for right now, but in the mean time I may build up a spare block.

I don't have the boost sensor hooked up to the car, i'm not sure if that would cause anything to act funky... I know it won't let your car boost past 5psi.

Last night i took the timing belt off, it was dry rotting kind of, so I ordered a new one from FRSports, so I'm dead in the water right now with no belt.

As for when the car was running, when i tapped the gas I was hearing noise (sounded like it was coming from the VTC solenoid or somehting, but it also sounded like lifter tap, definitely wasnt coming from the bottoom end.. Sounded like a rattle almost. Not sure what the hell that is.

[Z U L8R]

back to the realness.

aem is good for straight up drag cars. when you're in it all the way, pedal to the floor AEM is the shit! you have free range to control numerous solenoids and whatever else you wanna do

however you're gonna pay a tuner a lot of money for his time to tune out cold start and regular driveability partial throttle driving aka DAILY DRIVING. no way around it, that stuff takes time to tune out and get perfect. all in all what i'm saying is, if this thing isn't gonna be a competitive drag car, but more of a fuckin fast daily driver, apexi power fc is all you need for a gt35 turbo 2.5 liter. if you already bought the aem then movin on.

all i'm really trying to do, is not have you blow your shit up. pushing your stock internals to the limits ain't worth it. been there done that. best case, your shit doesn't blow up after a couple months, you get to say you made 441hp on a bone stock rb25 with just head gasket and arp head studs for 7 months, but no one comes to your front door with a trophy. nissan doesn't recognize you in it's hall of fame of RB engine enthusiasts, and you're definately not the first one to ever try it and succeed. that's best case. that's the you got lucky scenario, you pushed the stock crap to the limits and didn't have a problem........ for a while. However ignore the other 2 motors you tried to do the exact same shit with and was even more conservative, had even less timing than before and ran it even richer than before, but bottom line...the stock rb piston ring lands crack very easily


worst case scenario. the car blows up because whoever said "it can handle this at this" was WRONG. now they're fine, and you're stuck with a blown up motor and your buddies teasing you about when your cars gonna be ready again.

or you can listen to me, not push your shit, not blow your shit up, and actually have fun with the $8,000+ dollars you have in parts in your engine bay.

your set up, done properly will make 500rwhp @ ~19psi pretty easily, but if you don't address the "minor" things (sarcasm) like making sure the bottom end of your motor can handle the power, you're gonna dump twice that money into fixing it over and over and over.

with that said. do the tests and check over what i mentioned. i won't be able to use the computer for a couple days (no internet at my gf's house, sex = good) so if you wanna give me an update you can call the shop and talk to me.

later,
Dave

[opponheimer]

Did your motor throw a rod? What is the weakest point of the stock engine? Kinda disapointed to hear you say alot of the stuff, thought its all true. I've done several RB swaps and wiring jobs but never had one to myself. I do want a dependable daily driver.

Heres my turbo and lovefab manifold btw:



http://www.bizlocker.com/cars/rb/mini-P1000296.JPG

[1GayDrifter]

im too lazy to read. its highly recommended to change the timing shit. timing belt, tensioner, etc. THEN its good to change your coilpacks. buick will work just fine. AND THEEEEEN, save up for a greddy e-manage. that will take care of your fuel problem and you can control it, but witht he greddy emu. you cant get bigger injectors than 740cc

on top of that, you should replace the minor gaskets..everything above the block as in everything except head. this should help

[zorak]

worst case scenario. the car blows up because whoever said "it can handle this at this" was WRONG. now they're fine, and you're stuck with a blown up motor and your buddies teasing you about when your cars gonna be ready again.

or you can listen to me, not push your shit, not blow your shit up, and actually have fun with the $8,000+ dollars you have in parts in your engine bay.


i like this guy^^^^

he tuned my rb before.

sikkkkkk.

[Z U L8R]

Its funny you say I will need to build my motor for such small HP gains, I know it will be more dependable with the build, but I've heard of people making large quantities of power on stock engine...

here you go down that road......*shakes head


I'm not going to fix the engine if its not broke for right now, but in the mean time I may build up a spare block.

or just don't try to be like "those guys" and push the limits...


I don't have the boost sensor hooked up to the car, i'm not sure if that would cause anything to act funky... I know it won't let your car boost past 5psi.
the stock boost sensor? that's not ur problem...


Last night i took the timing belt off, it was dry rotting kind of, so I ordered a new one from FRSports, so I'm dead in the water right now with no belt.


while you got it off, great time for the N1 water pump..


As for when the car was running, when i tapped the gas I was hearing noise (sounded like it was coming from the VTC solenoid or somehting, but it also sounded like lifter tap, definitely wasnt coming from the bottoom end.. Sounded like a rattle almost. Not sure what the hell that is.

could definately be the timing, or a forgotton bung that never got plugged on the intake manifold.

anywho, for the record. u have given me zero dollars, therefore i have no alterior motive for suggesting to you the things i've suggested other than seeing you happy and your car not blown up.
gl

Dave

[godsmack]

Are all of your intercooler pipes nice and tight? From the sound of things the amount of air through the maf isn't hitting the tb causing it to be rich. I would def. not boost over .6 or .7 with stock injectors and that size turbo.

[opponheimer]

Well gentlemen, I'm kind of relieved, I just looked at the ECU code the vendor supplied me, it says:

01

23710-04U70


That is the same ecu for an RB20DET (AWD R32 GTST),,,,,,,,,, I have an RB25DET


Think thats my problem?

[Z U L8R]

lol, keep us updated

Dave

[opponheimer]

lol is right... considering the ecu has RB25DET MT written in pink marker on it.

and its for an RB20DET AT... some bull shit right there.

hopefully new ecu clears all my issues.

I've decided to lower my goal HP goal on the stock engine Dave, though the capability will be there, i do plan on building a separate long block.

[Z U L8R]

it's just better to have a running car that makes 20 or 30 less hp than to not drive it at all cause it cracked a piston ring land.

just lookin out for u man

gl with the new ecu.

Dave =]

[opponheimer]

I appreciate it man, thanks for the free advice... I'll let yall know what happens when i get the new ecu.. I hope everything is hunky dory

[bl3ujay07]

lol, i was expecting something from volchok and his "baby" turbo to post something here.

[YUNG DRIF]

check your spark plug gap
I had the same exact problem
sorry I forgot what the gap was but
the problem is simple most of the time on a rb check plugs

[opponheimer]

my ecu was the problem, i did regap the plugs tho :)

[Z U L8R]

what plugs/gap u runnin?

Dave

[opponheimer]

NGK-R BKR7E 0.028" GAP

Still waiting on the new rb25 ecu, heres some pics of car as it sits now


http://www.bizlocker.com/cars/rb/mini-P1000337.JPG


http://www.bizlocker.com/cars/rb/mini-P1000344.JPG


http://www.bizlocker.com/cars/rb/mini-P1000351.JPG

[bkfill]

wheel + tire specs?

[opponheimer]

rear 17 x 11.5 +6 255-40r17
front 17 x 10.5 -4 235-40r17

[timlush]

Dave,

Could you elaborate on the whole AEM vs. PowerFC topic? Are you saying PFC is the best, or just better than AEM? PM me if you don't want to clutter this thread.

Thanks :coold:

[opponheimer]

pfc is good for basic users is what dave said... aem is good for people who like tons of options and more capabilities...

[1GayDrifter]

im running a greddy emu on mine i love it. not as good as a power fc but this works just fine till i save up for one. and btw, DAVE is a very intelligent person. he knows his shit. im going to keep my rb25 stock, just an intercooler, bov, and 550cc injectors and a emu tune and itll be a good drift car and its safe on stock internals

[opponheimer]

God dammit... i got the new ecu, car starts idles great. Now i have more problems

1) my tophat mounts from jgy make the engine shake like a limp dick when the clutch chatters

2) the car cuts out (dies at around 11 some AFR) when i rev it up high and let the rpms drop. it does this with or without BOV

3) finally, the best one of all, I'll start to rev it high at a stand still, and keep reving it and car starts to blow smoke. I don't know if its oil smoke, or what, it looks grey.

I compression tested the cylinders with my out of wack harbor freight compression tester which reads 20psig low always.

These are the numbers i got:
Dry: 130 132 130 132 135 130
Wet: 135 140 138 140 151 140

(wet meaning oil in the cylinder)

Remember i know for a fact the comp tester is not calibrated right.

Anyways... turbo is brand new, drain line is not kinked. I guess I'm worried more about the smoke than anything else. Not sure what i should do. The brand new BKR7E plugs are covered in suit, almost fouled. I'm hoping i'm just burnin extra gas... but its so damn visible, and not dark black, the smoke is grey (i'm not overheating and it doesnt smell like coolant).

Any input greatly appreciated.

[Z U L8R]

as far as the spark plugs, i've made 400+ on both bkr7e's and bcpr7es on my personal car, i do however prefer the bcpr7es and you're correct at the gap .028. you should be able to run 22+psi on .028 gap

who's the n00b who said "what is your ecu code?" that got u lookin in your first page??
:D uugghhhh!!

the rims are hella baller by the way, excellent stuff right there! :D

we can make a new thread for aem vs power fc debate. my opinion summed up, if you want a 600hp daily driver get a power fc. if you want a 600+hp drag car that runs awesome at WIDE OPEN THROTTLE, with 2 step, trans brake, nitrous solenoids, different boost per gear/mph, but needs frequent attention on the daily driveability and cold start when the weather changes, then get aem ems......just my .02

back to Oppenheimer's car,

1. not surprised

2. u need to limp/tow that bish to alpharetta, GA so we can tune that bish (TUNE!!!)

3. stop free revving it lol, recommend TUNING THE CAR, then seeing what isssues are left.

thx for ur patience /w me, i haven't had time to get on the cpu lately, we been hella crazy and i got bills to pay lol
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Z_U_L8R/chrissshoppics013.jpg

i did the wasted spark on Ivan's s14
he made [email protected] on the GT40 (power fc, still running 2 mafs, not d-jetro yet)
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Z_U_L8R/chrissshoppics012.jpg
this is an s14 full race did the awd conversion on it, kyle's (our fab guy) doing the 4" exhaust on it, the plans are 700hp awd s14
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Z_U_L8R/S14AWDrb26enginebay1.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Z_U_L8R/S14AWDrb26side.jpg
drift viper :D
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Z_U_L8R/Superchargedviper1.jpg
700hp paxton novi2000 supa charger
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Z_U_L8R/Superchargedviper2.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc313/Z_U_L8R/LethalGraffiti008.jpg
and we got our entrance way improved, this is all yesterday........aka my birthday, 3-11-82

more clutter rawwrr! lol

Dave

[opponheimer]

lol nice pics, thanks for the response.. you saying i shouldnt be concerned with the high rpm smoking? this is when the car is at a stand still under 0psi boost. i'm like praying its not the rings cuz i want this car done so bad. i dont have a leakdown tester but anywho.

[Z U L8R]

u need to get the car tuned, just having it on the dyno where you can monitor everything will tell you a lot about what's going on with it.

it's probably easier to get in touch with me if u call the shop than on the computer.

ttyl

Dave

[opponheimer]

Girlfriends in town so i need to do other things, but sure i'll call sometime.. I kindof screwed myself into getting an AEM so theres no backing out now you know.

I got the code 34 to go away, plugged in a knock sensor. I also found the car was dying because of the BOV...

After i took the plugs out and put them back in the car runs rough, I think they are really fouled. This is awesome! I'm going to go get some bcpr7es gap them down and throw them in and see if that fixes it. Car was smoking alot cuz of the condensation and temp change, i didnt get to run it today cuz the gf pulled the cord on me. Maybe i'll dabble with it tomorrow before she wakes up. w

this car drives me crazy man...