CA18DET..or 210 HP KA24DE n/a

[Zemus]

Well i have been doing some thinking and im very stuck on the topic of what i should do.

I currently have a ka24e in my 240 and i have the ability to get a ka24de for next to nothing, all i have to do is pay for shipping. But im trading a turbo for the ka24de (a T3) and i can use my SOHC pistons to make it 11:1 compression, and with the right cam and head work, I am told I can run 215HP. But all the mods would total up to $1500, not to bad.

But then I got on Flashoptions and check out their ca prices (Ive liked the CA for a long time) and I noticed its 1475 SHIPPED for me to get one, a full setup..

I need your guy's oppinions on what i should do.

Note: If i dont trade my T3, i could bolt find a way to bolt that up to the CA to push some nice HP. So i could run atleast 215HP out of the CA.

What should i do....

[adey]

CA it. :) I just got home (yes, I drove home), and I can't get over the ridiculously low redline of our KAs. Yes, I can rev it up to about 7,000rpm before fuel cutoff, but it just loses ANY AND ALL power above about 4500 to 5000 rpm. It's pointless revving past that, not to mention the engine sounds like it's about to blow the tranny off. :rolleyes:
I am often forced to shift into third when all I would need is 3 or 400 more rpm to work with. Upshift 200 ft before a turn, immediately downshift to 2nd and brake to enter.... the more I run my KA, the less I like it.
If I had a choice, I'd have a CA18 in there, but I don't (no $$$) so I have to make due for the time being. :(

[Zemus]

Yea i dont really like the KA eather, but the cam the would be put in their would change the redline to 8k, and change the whole power band. Which would help.

Also, i thought turbo engines dont rev as high because its all about PSI not high reving, I really dont know, ive never driven a turbo car.

[andrave]

I'd get the CA... I have heard its a high strung, high revving motor. Eventually I plan on getting a CA18det and swapping a late model 240sx ball bearing T28 onto it, some larger injectors, a BOV, intake, exhaust, intercooler, and maybe cams. I really just want 200-250 HP for sliding sideways.
The KA's torque is nice but I agree that its just not the engine I like.

[Dousan_PG]

WHY GET A CA?
they stoppd making it in what, 91? so for the past 10+ years its been

a) ina junkyard
b) driven to death
c) bee in the junkyard since 88


ask 1bad180sx about CA in japan (he's on FA). dont belive that 30,000 KM crap.
they have been sitting for AGES

flame on if you want, but you are taking a MUCH MUCH higher risk w/ a CA then a SR

[Zemus]

Originally posted by dousan36
WHY GET A CA?
they stoppd making it in what, 91? so for the past 10+ years its been

a) ina junkyard
b) driven to death
c) bee in the junkyard since 88


ask 1bad180sx about CA in japan (he's on FA). dont belive that 30,000 KM crap.
they have been sitting for AGES

flame on if you want, but you are taking a MUCH MUCH higher risk w/ a CA then a SR

Yea, im aware of that :-/, sad but true, but i am inlove with the CA and ill take it even if its been sitting, ill do what needs to be done with it before it goes in my car..

Is putting a T3 a bad idea, will i get alot of turbo Lag?

[andrave]

if your KA had 160,000 miles on it you wouldn't care about "that 30,000 KM crap" And if the engine is compression tested and shipped with a guarantee (like the one I plan on getting) then thats good enough for me.

[Zemus]

Originally posted by andrave
if your KA had 160,000 miles on it you wouldn't care about "that 30,000 KM crap" And if the engine is compression tested and shipped with a guarantee (like the one I plan on getting) then thats good enough for me.


What im going to do :new plan: ive been talking to ppl and i guess the t25 on the CA blows so im going to get a turbo from an SR which is a beter t25 and run some nice numbers with that

[Dousan_PG]

go s14 turbo.

[Zemus]

Originally posted by dousan36
go s14 turbo.


Is that a even better T25 or is the like a t28 or somthing :confused:

[AKADriver]

the turbo specs are on srswap.com's FAQ, but basically:

CA18DET: smaller T25
S13 SR: bigger T25
S14 SR: T28 ball bearing
S15 SR: T28 ball bearing with ceramic turbine wheel, revised exhaust elbow

All the SR turbos make good upgrades for the CA... The S15 might be more work tho.

All the past comments about CAs being old and worn are true... Before installing a CA in a car I'd want to partially tear it down and inspect or replace the bearings etc.

Of course redtop SRs are almost as old now :(

[Zemus]

Originally posted by AKADriver
the turbo specs are on srswap.com's FAQ, but basically:

CA18DET: smaller T25
S13 SR: bigger T25
S14 SR: T28 ball bearing
S15 SR: T28 ball bearing with ceramic turbine wheel, revised exhaust elbow

All the SR turbos make good upgrades for the CA... The S15 might be more work tho.

All the past comments about CAs being old and worn are true... Before installing a CA in a car I'd want to partially tear it down and inspect or replace the bearings etc.

Of course redtop SRs are almost as old now :(

Yea i just found all that right before the post, im thinking T28 if i can find one for around 200, cuz i can sell my old T3 for about 120. So i could do that which i think would be a direct bolt on, which would freaking rock, or i could jsut get a Redtop Turbo for about 100 and not have to pay any extra

[Foxcolt]

Unless you wanna do a rebuild before you install a ca or a rebuild shortly after I suggest not getting a CA. However great these motors are no one can argue the fact that there very old. over time regardless of miles, seals dry and crack.

Plus there's very little support for the CA over here. Where would you go if you needed a new alternator? How much would you be wililng to pay?

I've always had a soft spot for CA's, and I know one person in my area that has one. Do you know how long it took his mechanic to install and wire it? 8 month's. Most of that time was waiting for parts!

The mini Rb's (as I call em) just aren't practicle anymore. ESPECIALLY as a daily driver. not when there's a better choice of motors out there.

Oh yeah... ka's don't make power naturally aspirated. Period.

Just FYI.

Jed

[AKADriver]

Depends what kind of power you want.

210 at the crank is realistic with the sort of modifications he proposes in the first post... That's about 175-180whp. It's been shown that a KA24DE can produce 165whp without even opening it up (except to add some still very streetable cams). A little more cam and bumped compression and 175-180 is cake.

210 at the wheels is going to be a tall order though! More or less impossible while maintaining streetability.

For the type of driving I put my car through, a slightly hotter KA is perfect... just enough that it'll pull all the way to redline instead of falling off. But I don't expect to win races with it.

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by AKADriver
Depends what kind of power you want.

210 at the crank is realistic with the sort of modifications he proposes in the first post... That's about 175-180whp. It's been shown that a KA24DE can produce 165whp without even opening it up (except to add some still very streetable cams). A little more cam and bumped compression and 175-180 is cake.

210 at the wheels is going to be a tall order though! More or less impossible while maintaining streetability.

For the type of driving I put my car through, a slightly hotter KA is perfect... just enough that it'll pull all the way to redline instead of falling off. But I don't expect to win races with it.

your completly right.

But like most people (including myself) power is addictive. Especially when it's your first time. This is what I see happening with NA built KA.

Spend much bucks.
get 210 hp KA yaY!!
get bored of it
get stuck with 210hp upped compression ka cause you can't reliably turbo charge it. No!!!

NA is just not the way to go for your average at home car enthusist like myself and many others. That's why this industry revolves around bolt on parts i.e. turbo's and the like. Because it's easy to bolt a turbo or swap a motor. When you start taking a micrometer to measure your piston to head clearence to get the most power out of a bored cylinder is when you either really really want to go NA or work for a race team.

edit: I really need to go back to fookin grade school to learn how to spell:mad:

[andrave]

I thought the s13 sr's had the T25 and the s14's also used the T25 for a while, with a larger wheel? When they did they switch to the T28, and then what models used the ball bearing T 28?

And lets be honest, its hard finding parts for any imported motor, be it an rb25, ca18det, or even an sr20det.
Also don't forget that the difference between an early sr20det and a ca18det, in terms of age, is only going to be a couple years. just something to think about

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by andrave
I thought the s13 sr's had the T25 and the s14's also used the T25 for a while, with a larger wheel? When they did they switch to the T28, and then what models used the ball bearing T 28?

And lets be honest, its hard finding parts for any imported motor, be it an rb25, ca18det, or even an sr20det.
Also don't forget that the difference between an early sr20det and a ca18det, in terms of age, is only going to be a couple years. just something to think about

No.

A s14 sr's use a ball bearing t28

Finding parts for SR's these days is a cinch

Why would someone want an early sr20det?

[AKADriver]

You're sort of on to something.

The Australian sites I'm reading seem to indicate that zenki S14s ('94-'96) had a T28 journal bearing turbo. Kouki S14s ('97-'98) got the ball bearings, S15s got the BBs and ceramic turbine wheel.

But that might not be correct. Either way, as far as I know all S14 SRs had T28's, even the detuned Euro model.

[Dousan_PG]

yes that's why people should be buying black top 180sx/s13 engines, not redtop. unless you know VERY SPECIFIC info on its condition, such as mileae, cmpression and how many years/long its been sitting in a junkyard. but you should be checking that for ANY used engine you buy. too many people expect just because it has a gaurantee that it will be perfect..no absolutely not. a good buyer knows what to look for.
or s14s, thats the way to go now.

[andrave]

well, what people "should" be doing in your eyes may not click up with what they want. Almost all the people on this forum seem to be the kind that struggle to save up 2000 bucks for an sr20det redtop front clip, because its what they can afford, and then they are trying to do suspension mods and all on top of it. I know you are gonna come back with either "well they would save more by buying a newer engine that they wouldn't have to dump money into" but I'd be willing to be there are just as many redtops in nice condition as there are blacktops that are total pieces of crap. Also a common rebuttal is "if you can't afford it don't swap" which is elitist and defies the whole tradition of hot rodding and having buds in the garage at 2 am with your friends.
Given the choice I'm sure that most of us would pick the newest engine we could. They just cost a whole lot more.

[Dousan_PG]

im a perfectionist, i cant help it

cost vs. risk

id rather pay more for not only piece of mind but also a lower mileage, good condition engine then risk

and theirs nothing wrong w/ having people working on cars in a garage till 2 am. if you havent done it, you dont know what your missing. i like the work on car all day, watch some videos and go out driving plan myself, on a weekly basis, but we do it when we can. its good fun. nothing wrong w/ getting home at 4 am after a nice day of working on cars and driving around. its an addiction.

[andrave]

also, this is taken from tpautomotive.com, a large importer of engines and clips:

"Complete S14 SR20DET Engine 1998cc Displacement 220 [email protected] RPM and 203 lb-ft at 4800 RPM 8.5:1 Compression Ratio Garrett T-25 Turbo w/ T03 Compressor Wheel Injector Size S14 5 speed RWD Transmission Engine/Tranny/ECU"

Says T-25 right there. Thats what I thought it was.

[DarkRaptor42]

heres my view on it. The NA KA wont be worth the effort unless like it was said is for certian class racing only. The CA in my opinion is sweet. It may be old, but if I got any engine from Japan even an SR20 I would take it apart and replace all the things that can wear out. If you have a T3 for a CA too it will rock. Also the CA isnt as done as the SR (age) but it still has alot of potential. What I would see as a problem though, is the ability to get parts. Like said above, if your alternator goes, wheres a new one coming from. Either way, Id go with the CA.

[AKADriver]

Originally posted by andrave
also, this is taken from tpautomotive.com, a large importer of engines and clips:

"Complete S14 SR20DET Engine 1998cc Displacement 220 [email protected] RPM and 203 lb-ft at 4800 RPM 8.5:1 Compression Ratio Garrett T-25 Turbo w/ T03 Compressor Wheel Injector Size S14 5 speed RWD Transmission Engine/Tranny/ECU"

Says T-25 right there. Thats what I thought it was.

The body of evidence disagrees with them.

Srswap.com/Heavy Throttle is a large importer, and they say T28.

I believe Heavy Throttle.

The turbo on that engine may have been swapped with an S13 unit.

[Titan]

Originally posted by Foxcolt


Plus there's very little support for the CA over here. Where would you go if you needed a new alternator? How much would you be wililng to pay?



Ever heard of the nissan pulsar? The late 80's models have a CA18DE... and 99% of the parts are transferable to the DET version. As far as I know at least.

[andrave]

I've read that the ca18 parts are interchangeable, and then I've read that they aren't, and I don't know anyone with a ca18det to find out for sure!

[Zemus]

wow lots of posts


When i was talking about 210 i ment flywheel, not rearwheel, that would be super insane


I would also like to know if the CA18 80's parts work

[whateverjames]

Originally posted by Oni
Yea i dont really like the KA eather, but the cam the would be put in their would change the redline to 8k, and change the whole power band. Which would help.

Change the power band, yes. Rev to 8,000 with a $150 cam, I wish. :D

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by andrave
well, what people "should" be doing in your eyes may not click up with what they want. Almost all the people on this forum seem to be the kind that struggle to save up 2000 bucks for an sr20det redtop front clip, because its what they can afford, and then they are trying to do suspension mods and all on top of it. I know you are gonna come back with either "well they would save more by buying a newer engine that they wouldn't have to dump money into" but I'd be willing to be there are just as many redtops in nice condition as there are blacktops that are total pieces of crap. Also a common rebuttal is "if you can't afford it don't swap" which is elitist and defies the whole tradition of hot rodding and having buds in the garage at 2 am with your friends.
Given the choice I'm sure that most of us would pick the newest engine we could. They just cost a whole lot more.

ya get what you pay for.

Originally posted by andrave
also, this is taken from tpautomotive.com, a large importer of engines and clips:

"Complete S14 SR20DET Engine 1998cc Displacement 220 [email protected] RPM and 203 lb-ft at 4800 RPM 8.5:1 Compression Ratio Garrett T-25 Turbo w/ T03 Compressor Wheel Injector Size S14 5 speed RWD Transmission Engine/Tranny/ECU"

Says T-25 right there. Thats what I thought it was.

lol, s14 sr's have t28's. how many times do I have to say it.

" Garrett T-25 Turbo w/ T03 Compressor Wheel Injector Size "

What the hell does compressor wheel injector size mean?

Keep in mind that many "large" importers couldn't tell a non turbo rwd sr from a turbo one. Dealing with jdm motors on a large scale you tend not to pay to much attention to the one's that don't sell as well. I remember talking to engine importers when I was sr shopping. I'd have to discribe the valve cover to em in order to figure out what gen sr's they had in stock.

[Foxcolt]

Originally posted by Titan
Ever heard of the nissan pulsar? The late 80's models have a CA18DE... and 99% of the parts are transferable to the DET version. As far as I know at least.


ya get in the same situation as the fwd sr's in the states. Some parts swap some parts don't. Good luck gettin a fwd made alternator to bolt up to your rwd CA.

let me clearly reiterate what I was saying.

Sr's have gained popularity enough that places readily carry an inventory of parts for it. If a part fails you can order a replacement and have your car running in no time.

That is not the case for the CA.
Granted I'm sure if your resourcefull enough you can get parts. Case is, how long will it take? Especially if it's your daily driver. That's the point I'm trying to make.
Are you willing to buy a motor in which every single problem might cause excessive down time? If you have another car to drive then great by all means. Get an rb for around the same price. But most of us aren't that fortunate. I chose a motor in which I could get the power I wanted and still have the ability to address problems fast with minimal downtime.

[DuffMan]

Technicly Nissan turbos aren't a T-anything, they are Nissan OEM parts manufactured by garret.

A S14 turbo is a T25 turbine and T04B compressor, which basicly a variant of T28.

That australian site might be right but only for non-JDM cars. Some exported S14's got different turbos. I know many exported ones did not have ball bearing turbos, not sure if they were T25's or T28's though.

[Zemus]

Originally posted by whateverjames
Change the power band, yes. Rev to 8,000 with a $150 cam, I wish. :D 8k with 450$ cams and 11.6:1 compression and a semi modded head, yes


Also, i have many friends who would give me rides around if my car is down, ill do alot to have a ca in my car, i love the engine. I just need to find a good place to get the parts, even if it is in japan

[transient]

The CA18DET is a hell of an engine. The engineering that went into that thing is what forced it out of production, it just cost to damn much. The direct cam-valve action alone is enough to seal the deal for me.

[whateverjames]

Originally posted by Oni
8k with 450$ cams and 11.6:1 compression and a semi modded head, yes

I've seen an S14 with the SOHC pistons and cams and head dyno at 165 rear wheel horsepower. It didn't make power up to 8000 either.

[RedSuns]

Originally posted by dousan36
WHY GET A CA?
they stoppd making it in what, 91? so for the past 10+ years its been

a) ina junkyard
b) driven to death
c) bee in the junkyard since 88


ask 1bad180sx about CA in japan (he's on FA). dont belive that 30,000 KM crap.
they have been sitting for AGES

flame on if you want, but you are taking a MUCH MUCH higher risk w/ a CA then a SR


Who says the CA has to come from Japan. They were used in the german 180sx correct?

[ca18guy]

Originally posted by cIvIcKILLA240style
Who says the CA has to come from Japan. They were used in the german 180sx correct?

They made ca18's up till 1994 in europe. There are still plenty of "good" engines out there for swaps.

[Zemus]

Originally posted by whateverjames
I've seen an S14 with the SOHC pistons and cams and head dyno at 165 rear wheel horsepower. It didn't make power up to 8000 either.

was it 89 sohc or 90 sohc cuz 89 will have 11.6:1 compression when 90 will only be 11.1:1 under the dohc engine. And im just saying it would have the abbility to rev to 8k, the cam i would get peaks power at 3200-7600 and redlines at 8k.

Anyways, yea, im glad all the CA freaks posted, thanks for the CA backup

[christopher]

So Oni, what are you going to do?

[CoasTek240]

personally i'd go go with a bunch of headwork.. and those cams on ur KA... and then instead of the SOHC pistons.. i'd use the money to rebuild someof the bottom end and buy some bolt ons..
pulleys and mior things liek that.. clean stuff up and get ur car running tip top all the while savign up for a turbo setup.

KA-turbo rocks!