SR Owners... More HP Easy Mod... Catch Can Setup

[slider2828]

Updated 1st post with Pictures.

How you ask.... Negative Crankcase pressure.... Seals rings better for better compression.... HP from Negative Crank Pressure is known to make 5WHP or More....

Ok this is probably the best way and cheapest and easiest way is to hook up to vac source which true your little intake PCV does have some, but your Turbo has the most. So hook your valve cover back to your intake. Now you have blowby and most people put a catch in the front of the T and into the Intake. But you still you get oil into the intake, why you ask? Because that front T is crap design.

Ok Fine... Most SR slanted valve covers can do this no problem, why? Because their baffling in the valve cover is better than or flat tops and their valve covers ARE that little black air oil separator cans if you look up slant top pics... So what do you do?

Blu808 (Manjiparts.com) and I are working on some things for my track car to work this out on flat top valve covers. 2 Goals, Increase Vacuum and suck those pressures out of the crank to ultimately negative crankcase pressure and reduce to 0 blowby.

On my redtop with a GT2871R fully built motor and seeing constant 18PSI, I was getting blowby because that STUPID "T" on the valve cover is basically useless. So we are coming up with two products that can increase horsepower and help you save your motor.

This SRT Forums thread was THE best thing I have seen technically to read. They have a solution, so Blu808 and I are also in development for a solution

Thes engines need vacuum all of the time... - SRT Forums - SRT4, SRT6, SRT8, SRT10 & Dodge Forum (http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f258/thes-engines-need-vacuum-all-time-485898/)

Long Story Short...

Why Flat Tops Suck. The "T" on the valve cover has baffles in the Valve cover but you get blowby from the pressurization of the crankcase (bad) and also oil is getting sucked out of the valve cover under boost. The valve cover does have baffles, but its in sufficient. In stock form the front of the "T" is hooked to the intake tube which IS the best internal source of vacuum, but that means oil gets into your intake from both the valve cover and the crankcase.

So far, Blue808 and I have managed to reduce blowby to 0 on my car. History is, I did a trackday and I was filling my can 3-4 laps around the track. Sucks! So we have gotten that to 0 for the entire day which is about 30+ Laps. Keep in mind this course has a lot of elevation changes so it will through your crank oil upwards for sure.

Pics of the solution will be up soon as well, but I have searched for like 3 months on zilvia and there has been 0 real solutions.... Nothing really has been developed for you guys, so Blu808 and I are working on it.

Just service annoucement hahaha!


https://i.imgur.com/gQVc6mB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8AodSoK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9QSCvVm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/eqX5sOP.jpg

[Silviaoneday]

Im interested myself!!

[YoungGun]

Write up plz.

[mysharonna]

Sounds awesome! I have been debating a solution to this myself. Catch can here? In between there? I dunno.

Post those pics!

[simplistek]

just add one of these.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/kidnrg/new%20batch/IMAG0051.jpg

the better S14 baffling on an S13 SR.

[slider2828]

^^^ Yah that is great for Slant Tops, but a lot of people have flat tops like I said.... In that picture, the only problem is you gain nothing from that except only exiting crank pressure. There are still 2 issues, you are increasing pollution (not that I care) and 2 is have MAYBE 0 out your crank pressure, but your system I will call it isn't "actively" evacuating the crank pressure which leads to more HP and better response....

Yah we are working on the system as we speak and should have more results next week... Hopefully I can do a dyno session with everything.

Also not everyone has that setup S13.4 (MA-Motorsports style) valve cover that costs $400 big ones... which I don't have on a racers budget...

I am hopeful our solution is $200 or less.... Depending on setup...

[Exas Spec D]

I can't wait to see the "solution".

[slider2828]

I am currently also gathering parts. If you guys know what krank vents are.... F... that I ain't paying 110 for some PCV check valves.... So this is with budget in mind guys...

[timlush]

This is how I am doing it.

(not my car)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/spooledup/TX2K6/P3173001.jpg

[Dj Ryderz]

That sound very nice ..... I cant way to see it finished

[$nicklefritz]

well the cheapest way to do it is by
getting 2 covers 14 &13 cut and paste it ur self ...
or send both out to get fabbed up ...
buy evry thin used shouldnt be more than mabe 200 beaners.

[smelly240]

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q19/smelly240/DSCN2581.jpg

no oil in my pipes... and the turbo inlet pipe only doesnt have vacuum when the turbo compressor surges

[S14DB]

You guys do realize the PCV is on the other side of the VC right?

[slider2828]

Yah the PCV is on the passenger side on a USDM. The turbo is another good source of vacuum, you stop pressure on surge you can install a pcv there too. Another good vacuum source is the exhaust too...

[slider2828]

well the cheapest way to do it is by
getting 2 covers 14 &13 cut and paste it ur self ...
or send both out to get fabbed up ...
buy evry thin used shouldnt be more than mabe 200 beaners.

Ergh you sure when one cover is about 80 bux? How much welding and machine work you think its going to take to do that? Think about it...

[slider2828]

The solution we hav is very close to that, except in that picture, he is going to get oil in there when you doing drift or grip...

Side note, that is a RB, and their baffling is NOT the same as SR.

This is how I am doing it.

(not my car)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/spooledup/TX2K6/P3173001.jpg

[Mister.E]

im really waiting to see how this turns out. you and me have been going back and forth trying to figure this out for some time now. i ended up having to put the oil separation tank back on, which totally sucks balls, and id love to have a better fix for this problem

[jakethesnake]

im very interested in what your coming up with

[silviakid2790]

The solution we hav is very close to that, except in that picture, he is going to get oil in there when you doing drift or grip...

Side note, that is a RB, and their baffling is NOT the same as SR.


...........thats deff not a rb.......

[blu808]

Yea that is a Toyota engine Ken.

Anyways. It is actually a really simple solution.

[Monooxide]

The real solution to this is to run an external vacuum pump like NASCAR. :D.

[S14DB]

Yah the PCV is on the passenger side on a USDM. The turbo is another good source of vacuum, you stop pressure on surge you can install a pcv there too. Another good vacuum source is the exhaust too...
Manifold vacuum is much higher then turbo intake. The line from the intake to the T is mainly for the intake of clean metered air to the crankcase. All the shit comes out the PCV into the Intake Manifold.

Best solution is to put a Catch Can between the PCV valve and the Intake Manifold. If your are really anal, another one between the VC and the intake tube.

[slider2828]

I ahve a read a couple of different sites like 3000GT, 300zx, and SRT's and they all suggest the turbo is a good source of vacuum too.... and this increases overall vacuum from the valve cover and ultimately crankcase.... But remember the exhaust system is vacuum as welll....

[Def]

Manifold vacuum is much higher then turbo intake. The line from the intake to the T is mainly for the intake of clean metered air to the crankcase. All the shit comes out the PCV into the Intake Manifold.

Best solution is to put a Catch Can between the PCV valve and the Intake Manifold. If your are really anal, another one between the VC and the intake tube.

But when you really need vacuum pulled on the crankcase is when the intake manifold is under boost. Exactly why the stock PCV valve is basically a check valve which prevents boost in the intake manifold from going to the valve cover.

The turbo inlet is the best source of vacuum at WOT.

[slider2828]

...........thats deff not a rb.......

Woops that is a 2JZ.... lol...

[steve shadows]

But when you really need vacuum pulled on the crankcase is when the intake manifold is under boost. Exactly why the stock PCV valve is basically a check valve which prevents boost in the intake manifold from going to the valve cover.

The turbo inlet is the best source of vacuum at WOT.

Exactly.

This is SR20 101 - not some miraculous discovery.

All of you should be good little turbo car owners and should still have your crank cases hooked up to vacuum already...:goyou:

I don't know why anyone would have ever removed the stock setup- Nissan did that, if not anything else on the (T) series motors for a reason.

At higher boost and HP threshold/levels you can see gains of 25-70 whp...cough

[slider2828]

Thanks Steve... But that T is shit if you get some blowby... so monday ima get one more thing welded and the setup complete.... WIll take pics of course...

[S14DB]

But when you really need vacuum pulled on the crankcase is when the intake manifold is under boost. Exactly why the stock PCV valve is basically a check valve which prevents boost in the intake manifold from going to the valve cover.

The turbo inlet is the best source of vacuum at WOT.

How long are you staying at WOT? You are going to build up some gases at WOT from blow by. But you are going to suck them right up once you let off.



I do not understand why you guys are trying to re-invent the wheel. Quality Rings and modern piston clearance. I don't see how you are going to have major blow by.

Only gain I can see is an extended oil change intervals. Yes you can increase power by installing a PCV system. But, the motor already has one.

Splitting hairs IMHO.

[blu808]

3 mile long road course.

s14db. You have a valid point. but his shit was really filling up every 3-4 laps. If he was sucking oil into his intake manifold through his pvc, then we would do a catch can and more work there.

We are simply helping out the stock system without having to use a vac pump.

Luke

[Def]

How long are you staying at WOT? You are going to build up some gases at WOT from blow by. But you are going to suck them right up once you let off.



I do not understand why you guys are trying to re-invent the wheel. Quality Rings and modern piston clearance. I don't see how you are going to have major blow by.

Only gain I can see is an extended oil change intervals. Yes you can increase power by installing a PCV system. But, the motor already has one.

Splitting hairs IMHO.

You're missing the point of my post. The PCV valve is designed to generate a small vacuum on the crankcase under low load conditions. You build boost and the turbo inlet pressure drops and the PCV valve doesn't flow either way, and the hose coming off the valve cover starts really flowing to pull a vacuum on the crankcase, which is where the majority of your blow by will happen due to simple physics.


I personally don't have my stock PCV valve hooked up to anything due to the crap that gets in the intake manifold even with a small catch can and haven't noticed any negative effects. I do have a catch can between the valve cover and intake tube with -8 AN lines which is enough flow given the diameter of a 3/8" NPT fitting that threads into the valve cover is the same ID.

[slider2828]

How about at Idle def.... It stumbles a little probably without a pcv? no?

[Def]

How about at Idle def.... It stumbles a little probably without a pcv? no?

My car doesn't ever stumble. Recirculated BOV, good mechanical condition and great tune mean it drives better than stock.

I don't see why a lack of PCV valve would cause that though...

[slider2828]

its just sorta like an open vac source that is all... who tuned it?

[Def]

There are no open vacuum sources. I just have the PCV valve capped off.

I tuned it myself.

[slider2828]

O you capped it off.... Lol it sounded like you just removed it and connected... Yah that works too but at low rpms, its a good source of vacuum and shouldn't accumulate oil

[S14DB]

I bet your oil looks like shit when you change it.

[slider2828]

I bet your oil looks like shit when you change it.

You mean when running no pcv?

[S14DB]

You mean when running no pcv?

Yeah all the blow by and water has no where to go.

[JeremyR]

i am down to get this done/buy the product/etc once its finished! i've always had problems with that stupid ass T.

[slider2828]

Yah that T is fucking useless.....

[timtiminy]

These articles might be interesting to read considering this same issue.
Browser Warning (http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110826/article.html)
Browser Warning (http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1101/article.html)

[fromxtor]

^^ Concerning the "T" I have one -10 AN fitting welded in its place, it is then routed to a moroso catch can(with breather), and finally routed back to where the stock catch can is vented into the block.

[4x4le]

Interesting. Suscribing! I hate the pcv issues with the sr and i have to be carefull as to not rout to the atmosphere in order to prevent fires due to running e-85.
This sounds like it could make my engine a little safer as well as suck in a little less oil.

[slider2828]

High G's on 18PSI on a very heavy altitude change course, I had 0 oil where as normal setup with crank to T to catch to Intake, I was filling up in 3-4 laps and this is the greddy large catch can..... Anyways pic will be up Monday.... there is still some work to be done... but Monday!!!

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v1298/21/115/613670851/n613670851_1282970_3314.jpg

That is the altitude change you are looking at and there is a very sharp crest at the top....

Here is the other... That is top of 3rd coming over this crest and I nearly top 4th.... Not enough down force so over the crest you lose steering a little.....

http://gotbluemilk.com/web081212/28/images/MF1A6051.JPG

[jakethesnake]

anything new on this??

[slider2828]

Pics will be up tonight... I just landed from Vancouver yesterday, so Ima work with Luke.... So stay tuned.... Remember these will be progress pictures not like final product pics which will be on his website. Thanks for checking back.

[bejota180sx]

yeah i would like to see this cause i was gonna run a catch can setup.. the simple left part of the T with a catch can in between the intake pipe and the other one still has the stock oil separator (should i keep the restrictor in the hose or remove it? cause i change hose and didn't throw away that restrictor in it in case i really need it but haven't found any useful info on that...)

[s14unimog]

I'm curious, are we not worried about blowing out the main seals? I'm assuming all of this comes down to you pressurizing the crank case; under WOT?

[Monooxide]

Its about maximizing vacuum. You never want positive pressure in your crankcase.

[fliprayzin240sx]

What I dont get is, if your getting that much blow-by (3-4 can fulls), why are you band aiding the problem? You already know what that means, engines going down the shitter. Instead of figuring out how to lessen your blowby, you need to start saving money and get ready to rebuild the bottom end.

[slider2828]

Ergh.... I run 18PSI on a 2871R all day on the track.... It has heavy altitude changes as seen in the picture. Ergh, I have already solved 1/2 of the problem which is complete eliminating the blowby. The engine has been full rebuilt from the ground up. Driving on the street and doing the occasional pull gives not a drop of oil in the can.... Its just on the track.....

[waynehead05]

Yea but where's the pictures? Write up?

[slider2828]

Ok... pics will be up one day late.... cause I was just too tired while putting on the valve cover and intake stuff back in. Was testing the setup for best results.....

So far with nothing changed except welding bung for pulling in vacuum from the catch can....

So here is a brief description of the setup....

First Phase
Blu808 welded a 90* AN fitting to the top of the valve cover and replaced the T with a 90* AN fitting as well. The AN fitting on top of the valve cover is right next to the words TWIN CAM 16VALVE right next to the "E". We modified the baffling in the valve cover to allow it to "breath" easier and suck gases from the blowby better. So from the crankcase, it goes directly into the 90* fitting that used to be the T. Then from the top of the valve cover 90* it is piped down into the catch can and the catch can to open air. Just this mod eliminated blowby and any oil into my catch can on the track. I had 0 drop of oil in the whole track section and the car felt good....

Second Phase
We finished it last night, because my Alu pipe from PipingPro didn't have a recirculate bung (BOV is circulated though), cause I didn't ask for it for the valve cover, we had to remove it and weld a bung. So now instead of having the open air side of the catch just open to atmosphere, we basically piped it back into the intake now, so the catch is a completely closed system. This part is tricky, because right now at idle it pulls about .6 more PSI at idle based on my Profec-E01 Digital gauge and idles a little higher around 100 RPM higher. From my experiences this messes with the boost settings a little when the base PSI changes a little. It is immediately noticeable that start-up is much easier and reduction in cold start RPM fluctuations which I was getting is basically gone. Now I can't tell too much yet as I haven't really driven on it except to work which is a traffic commute but when I get off work, I can drive it with a little more open road and fix my idle a little more.

Like I said pics up tonight.... But you get the idea

[bejota180sx]

jum thank god i just ordered from pipingpro the intake pipe with borth recirc bungs... hope that helps me run the right system when i do my catch can setup...

and this thread is being helpful cause most flattop owners just put a catch can and call it a day...

[slider2828]

Yah I am still working on making sure everything is running perfectly.... But so far it runs better.... I will take it to the track in April for Laguna Seca.... But at this point all I can do is dyno it and hopefully I can do that in Feb or March.... I hope to come up with revisions to the design.... You can actually pm Blu808 and he can do all the welding and modifications to the valve cover....

(Blu808) Luke can you chime in on pricing....

Probably going to drive a little during lunch too

[blu808]

Well for the pricing. I wouldn't consider this a huge "money maker" so I will do it for a really reasonable price. Say. The cost of the fittings, and like $75 for the tig welding, oil baffle modification, and prep. I can also have the valve cover powder coated or polished.

Basically here is what you would be getting.

1 -8 A/N fitting (male/compression) welded to where the stock T fitting goes.
1 -8 A/N fitting (male/compression) welded on top of the valve cover.
Oil baffle modification
Prep for welding

We can also supply you with either A/N fittings and stainless lines. Or A/N push lock nipples.

Let me know who wants to do this.

Luke

[kenshinS14sks]

really interested . .. but luke. . . if you're in "space" how do we get to you?

[bejota180sx]

does anyone here have the answer to this question...

im running the stock oil separator, i've read i should keep it, is this correct? and also the restrictor it has on the hose going towards it, should i keep that or remove it?

[slider2828]

In stock form yes... With this mod no.....

It doesn't have a restrictor on the hose does it? I am not aware there was a restrictor on it... Can you take a pic.....

So in your case crank to AO separator, to T to Catch to intake..... But its not promised your catch with G's and full boost depending on turbo will fill it up.... as this is the way I had it up before....

With this mod from Luke you won't fill it up.

Here's a pic.... sorry about the quality, but from my camera phone.... Didn't have time to clean things up either, but trust me Luke's product will look good!

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/gaert/PICT0067.jpg

[Def]

I bet your oil looks like shit when you change it.

Nope, had any issues. My car isn't just used to go get milk at the grocery store, so the oil gets hot often enough, and the valve cover is connected to the turbo intake via a catch can which provides way more flow than the stock PCV valve.

Actually, my SR's oil stays clean forever compared to my M3's.

[JeremyR]

so wait...the new bung on top is going straight to the intake, with no catch can.
and then the new bung in the t location is going down to the crankcase. is this correct? im a little confused.

[slider2828]

More pics of setup

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/gaert/PICT0065-1.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/gaert/PICT0064.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/gaert/PICT0063-1.jpg

[slider2828]

Sorry a lot of hoses... will clean up later.... But NOW ask your questions...

[bejota180sx]

Can you take a pic.....



sure! ill take a pic tomorrow, ill look for the 'restrictor' and take a pic of it...


and don't shy away just because of the welds people, it is very noticeable that this was to try it out first before cleaning everything up ... look at any job from luke and you will see how his work is... close to perfect imo...

[slider2828]

Yup! Man I did this stuff after work.... Pretty tired you know after a 10 hour day to slap everything back together.... Will work on piping....

[jakethesnake]

so let me get this correct because im a little confused
The hose thats coming of the top of the cover is going to the intake, and the hose off where the T was is going straight down to the oil pan?

[slider2828]

so let me get this correct because im a little confused
The hose thats coming of the top of the cover is going to the intake, and the hose off where the T was is going straight down to the oil pan?

The one off the top is to a catch can to the intake....

The other one you are correct...

[4x4le]

Im very interested in having this done. How much extra would it be to get my valve cover polished out? Either that or for it to be powder coated in some sort of a metalic blue? Also can I get blue an fittings? My valve cover is black right now, someone sprayed the red top valve cover black. I dont think its powder coat because it chipped off in a spot when I dropped something on it when the cover was off, its like 2 mm thick. If getting it re coated would cost too much I still want to highly consider getting this done, and now would be a great time since we have parts of the car tore down right now. How fast can I get it back too?

Also, Im capable of installing the an fittings at my shop easially, and I know someone that can powercoat it when its done. Are yall WANTING us to send them to you? Or can I ask for pictures of the modifications done to the baffaling? If you dont want to post them up but wouldnt mind pm'ing me the picturs of the baffeling I can keep them private. Thanks!

[slider2828]

Sorry lol.... valve cover is closed... haha I need to pull that thing off again and all the trouble.... Pain in the ass you know.... But basically its drilling a series of holes in the baffling that is already there....

Luke can do all that stuff for you and has a beadblaster... PM him as this is a tech thread not a sales thread..... Blu808 is his name welding is his game

On a note.... a little about the ideas behind this....

Basically we believe air from the crank which is considered high pressure will enter into the VC and obviously with some oil. The oil will hit the walls of the valve cover and drain downwards through the oil returns in the head. The top AN fitting basically from the vacuum will cause an area of low pressure because of the vacuum and it should draw most of the air out that way.... Air tends to flow from High Pressure to Areas of Low Pressure obviously.... The baffles were modified near the area of the top AN fitting to reduce the possibility of sucking oil under load....

When hooking up to the catch can, please make sure to clamp them down and the fittings themselves use teflon to reduce any vacuum leakage....

If you want there will be a specially designed catch where in case of pressure loading on the catch, a check valve with filter is placed on top of the can with steel wool inside to catch all oily particles...

[bejota180sx]

so wait, did you or luke made yours?

[slider2828]

My catch was mine from greddy... but I am doing the designing and testing.... he is doing the fabrication.... So I am going to redo my catch this weekend, but he has some cool laser cut stuff for fuel surge tanks that he can do for the catch design....

[JeremyR]

ahhh yes everything is much clearer now. this is awesome. once i get my car up and running again i will definatly hit luke up to have this done.

[4x4le]

Sorry lol.... valve cover is closed... haha I need to pull that thing off again and all the trouble.... Pain in the ass you know.... But basically its drilling a series of holes in the baffling that is already there....

Luke can do all that stuff for you and has a beadblaster... PM him as this is a tech thread not a sales thread..... Blu808 is his name welding is his game



Ok cool, sorry about that. I just got too excited. Haha. I hate it when people do what I just did so Im a hippocrate lol.
Anyways, I would really like to wait to get the pics of the baffaling when possible. This honestly seems like something I can handle and the main reason I showed interest in paying for this was because I didnt know if there was going to be seceracy.

On a side note, how are the hoses holding up for you? Are they reinforced? I had issues with BAD blow by once and we couldnt figure it out and one day we were screwing around on a dyno and I saw the problem. The heat from the turbo mani was causing the hoses to weaken and the scution from the turbo inlet caused the hoses to collaps and then pressure to build up on the engine side of the hose. That told me that the turbo sucked out more air than the blow by produced. I shot the dipstick out too and the e85 vapor ignited! E85 guys have to take extra precautions with blow by and crank case ventelation because our fuel turns into a vapor the second its expelled from the injectors and introduced to the heat of the intake manifold and head.
Here is how I modified my dipstick
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/misc/0929081627.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/misc/0929081626.jpg

I posted these pics because it shows what I have done more easially. Right after the picture was taken I cleaned it up with a file and painted it flat black. Now it looks as if it were factory. You can unscrew the top due to the washer and can still insert your dipstick as you would normally, either just to check oil or to drive around with all day and then just cap it off on a track day. I keep mine capped up because I didnt think a whole lot about it the first time I heard how easy it is to get an engine fire due to the e85 vapor escaping but I take caution at all times now. And that is why Im interested in this valve cover modification now.

Side note, here is the modified dipstick installed.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/misc/0929081829.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/misc/0929081830.jpg

[slider2828]

I haven't noticed too much of the suction issue... but since these are AN fittings, I can always fit AN hoses on them.... I gotta put it under a dyno to see whether if these things collapse or not....

Personally i have a Stock Exhaust Manifold, so there is a lot of clearance between the hose and the manifold... I would however suggest AN hoses if it was an aftermarket.... Then you won't have any problems....

[4x4le]

Are your hoses simply the parts store universal hoses, or heater hoses? You may have trouble with them. I got hoses from summit for my current setup but i would run an hoses for sure with my setup when I do this. I do have another question for you though....
When you have your oil filled to the proper amount on your car and your on a steep hill do you pull any oil out of the rear mounted fitting? Im assuming not because because the pcv will have more suction than the an fitting. I have noticed that my car will suck some oil out when on a steep hill (front bumper pointing tward the sky). Its not that commen to be on such a grade but there are a few spots in my town where the streets seem like they are strait up, like leaving the park I cannot believe how strait up and down the pull out is and my exhaust will bellow smoke there till I take off.
Anyways Im just wondering if it would not be more beneficial to bring the rear mounted an fitting to a different location? Possibly more tward the center.

Sorry, Im not trying to pick at your project, but I have spent lots of hours thinking about the crank case ventalation issues with the sr and never have I came up with something as simple and good as you (hince why mine is un modified yet properly routed) but now that I see a great idea I cant help but offer food for thought.

[slider2828]

Nope it will not pull oil out at all.... Basically there are already baffles in the valve cover which which prevent that. Those baffles extend beyond where the E in Valve is... there are two large oil drains from the head there in that area as well, so on a steep grade there is no oil that can be sucked from that rear fitting. Also on a steep hill, altough you are pulling vacuum, I doubt there is enough vacuum to suck out oil from the intake side + like you said the PVC is pull vacuum two so there isn't an in-balance in pressure... But yah those baffles extend WAY beyond (back towards the firewall ) than where we put the fitting, so its optimal placement there. Also if running 500+ HP you can install another fitting in the same location on the other side of the valve cover.... But 800+ like on the article I posted, its better to leave it open because there isn't going to be enough vacuum to suck out the blowby coming off of it.

Side note, we thought about putting it on the side of the valve cover, the rear fitting, but it actually probably won't distribut pressure as evenly as the middle of the valve cover. At the same time fluid probably won't disperse uniformly as well.

Yah maybe AN's are the way to go... I suspect it is collapsing though as you said.... Lets just say DDing the thing and also on the track, I can tell pretty well what my setup is doing... I think I am going to ask Luke to see what he suggests.

[4x4le]

Well, I honestly think the setup you posted is going to be perfect for me. Im making right around the 400whp range and I dont consider myself to have a blow by problem. The bottem end is fresh and built but its an sr, so with using the stock T fitting the piston blow by that is always going to be there is being taken care of while maintaining a vaccume in the crank case but the only oil I see is mierly oil vapor (not much at all) in the can and I think its just mostly because of the bad design of the t fitting allowing oil to come in from the lower block, not the head. I honestly thing having the lower block feed the valve cover and then pull from the top of the valve cover through the baffiling was REALLY smart. I am so interested in seeing exactly where and what size the holes are.

[slider2828]

Sorry unless I do some more work, I am tired to pull the valve cover... but lets just say its very close to where the fitting is.....

[4x4le]

Its cool. I guess im just kind of wanting an idea of how many holes, and what size drill bit. Like super tiny dremil sized or what. Maybe someone will get this done soon and pics can be taken then. I understand it is a fare amount of trouble to remove the valve cover for nothing, expecially if you have all the coils bolted down, and you always run the risk of a leak then unless you have newer gaskets.

[slider2828]

The placement wasn't just thought of all by me, I gotta give some credit to Blu808. We had a compromise and as I thought about it more, it worked best this way that was all...

[blu808]

There is no real reason of me keeping this a secret. It's not like i make money of you guys anyways. If any of you guys have a tig welder, and can do aluminum feel free. I don't know when we will have a valve cover off again, but I will take a few pics when I do. We simply came up with this solution as a cheaper alternative to the s14.3 valve cover modification. If this was my engine I would either run real push lock hoses, or stainless A/N lines. Either way the fittings that are welded on are -8 male A/N so you can put whatever you want on in the future.

Also as a note. Anytime you weld on aluminum that has been around oil you need to take it down to a fresh layer or else it will not be able to be welded. This is usually more of a concern with oil pans, but it is critical in this situation to keep any leaks from occurring.

I can be reached via:

PM
Aim= Blu808
website Blu808 - Performance Engineering and Innovation (http://www.blu808.com) (almost done)
phone (see website)


Thanks. Luke

[slider2828]

Just to add to that.... this is mostly my DD, so if I don't finish it, I can't go home.... so we had to get it done that night.... So when I have more time, I will make it look better

[initial_drifter]

definitely something i'll be getting

subscribed

[harlockssx]

Subscribing

[hispeed]

very informative ken

[slider2828]

Eh.... its a lot of work... Still got some work to do, I don't think this is the final solution until I head to laguna and jump it on the dyno...

[Zeller]

I have been following your write up on here and nice work! I am interested in this setup. I just bought my 240 w/S15 swap from my buddy and this thread got me looking into what he had done. He has run from the valve cover straight to a catch can and then it stops there. Is this a problem? And if so is this set-up the solution?
Thanks

[BeachBoys]

Hello everybady.

My name is Yasu from Japan.

I want to know SR engine is famous in overthere?

because I have one 180SX at the morment.

But how can I sell is I don't know.

If ok,Please let me know about it.

thank you

Yasu

[slider2828]

S15 are slant tops, they don't really have this problem but yes in general it should go back into the intake..... from your catch...

[Om1kron]

this is a super stupid ass question... the tube from the valve cover originally that goes into that pipe on the block that's a bitch to move goes straight to the oil pan? I should probably check my fsm but hey it's a free bump for you lol.

[slider2828]

Goes to crank case.... Oil pan is way in the front.....

[hispeed]

ken if i remember, ill snap some pics of my valve cover and give it to you saturday if i remember

[Om1kron]

well yeah I know where the oil pan is... I read something which I should've quoted that confused me but yes I thought that pipe went to the crank case/bottom end.

[slider2828]

ken if i remember, ill snap some pics of my valve cover and give it to you saturday if i remember

No No this guy wanted a pick of the valve cover with the modified baffling... not stock... Thanks!

[SILVIA_KIDs14.5]

what do us s14 guy got to do any thing i never really saw any blow by issues with mine but i could be wrong

[slider2828]

nah like I said before... slant tops don't have this problem because the crankcase tube already flows into the well designed valve cover (slanted top for a reason) so you just need to probably put a catch can between teh front VC tube and your intake...

Just consider you guys lucky...

[moses]

This is that restrictor that one guy was talking about. Do you guys know if we need this or not? It goes between the "T" and stock catch can.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk46/aks240/restrictor.jpg

[INeedNewTires]

just add one of these.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/kidnrg/new%20batch/IMAG0051.jpg

the better S14 baffling on an S13 SR.

^^^ Yah that is great for Slant Tops, but a lot of people have flat tops like I said....


I guess you guys didnt catch that this was an S14.3 valve cover, MA motorsports is doing it for a fee. Notice the slant back but no VTC clearance thing up front....

[blownmotor]

All this looks like a rerouted version of stock.... If you think about it, it all goes back to the same place except there's a catch can in between it.

[4x4le]

haha, I didnt catch that. I was too distracted by the 10 gal catch can lol.
Nice looking valve cover.
I still would get rid of the filter and run it back to the turbo inlet. Your engine is getting some un metered air when the pcv is operating via the filter and valve cover.

[bejota180sx]

i looked for that restrictor all over and couldn't find it anywhere, i don't know where i put it... its just that a circle shaped restrictor that went inside the hose that goes from the T to the stock oil separator...

if i do find it, ill post some pics...

[slider2828]

I guess you guys didnt catch that this was an S14.3 valve cover, MA motorsports is doing it for a fee. Notice the slant back but no VTC clearance thing up front....

Yes it was caught.... You still are looking at 400 dollars.... You do it for me for 200 with the two vavle covers I gotta source the cutting and the welding....

If you can do it, then please sell it to me cause I would buy it....

Oh in case you didn't see that valve cover is for sale in the for sale section right now. How much is it, guess what its 400 bux....

Otherwise you aren't adding any help to the thread....

[slider2828]

All this looks like a rerouted version of stock.... If you think about it, it all goes back to the same place except there's a catch can in between it.

In the stock form all the oil goes back into your intake. In this modification, all the oil is preserved in your motor. It is NOT rerouting the stock way. This also eliminates the probability of any oil making it to your intake....

If by your means stock way then really all SR20's are routed this way with an added catch can.... Same as slanted tops....

[moses]

i looked for that restrictor all over and couldn't find it anywhere, i don't know where i put it... its just that a circle shaped restrictor that went inside the hose that goes from the T to the stock oil separator...

if i do find it, ill post some pics...
I posted a pic of it in permalink 96

[slider2828]

I posted a pic of it in permalink 96

Unless I am blind, I don't see it.

[blownmotor]

The one off the top is to a catch can to the intake....

The other one you are correct...


Crankcase pressure will always go into your intake because of the PCV valve during idle or cruising in vacuum. Have you really looked closely at the PCV system on SR20's? Your "way" consist of a hose going straight to the oil pan which S13 SR20 has with a seperator between it coming from the T on the valvecover. Also you have a hose from the valvecover that goes to the intake with a catchcan between it which the stock S13 SR20 already does with the exception of a catch can in between. Sounds redundant. Then you go on saying "it preserve all the oil in your motor". How does it "preserve" all the oil in your motor when it's being vented?

[moses]

Unless I am blind, I don't see it.

Dont know what happen but its there now. Here is another just in case.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk46/aks240/restrictor.jpg

[slider2828]

Wow I have never noticed nor seen that in my life.....

[bejota180sx]

THAT is the thing i was talking about! my stock hose was damaged so i replaced it, but i kept that thing around here somewhere in case i need it... i've runned without it for a time but i wanted to check if it is really needed...

[slider2828]

Crankcase pressure will always go into your intake because of the PCV valve during idle or cruising in vacuum. Have you really looked closely at the PCV system on SR20's? Your "way" consist of a hose going straight to the oil pan which S13 SR20 has with a seperator between it coming from the T on the valvecover. Also you have a hose from the valvecover that goes to the intake with a catchcan between it which the stock S13 SR20 already does with the exception of a catch can in between. Sounds redundant. Then you go on saying "it preserve all the oil in your motor". How does it "preserve" all the oil in your motor when it's being vented?

The stock does not go to the oil pan, it goes to the crankcase, so that is a correction. In stock form, yes there is a stock separator, BUT you are missing that most people run an after market exh manifold, so the separator does NOT fit. Secondly, the stock separator fails to "separate" oil well enough that under 18PSI of constant boost on the track, it doesn't separate oil fast enough, hence I get blow by. Ok I put the catch tank in between the front T and then into the intake, the oil catch fills up. DUH so now I am low in oil, going to spin a bearing and blow my motor. In that exmaple oil that ends up in this catch does NOT return to the oil pan now does it?


My system retains the oil in the engine and drains back naturally. I don't think yo understand how this works.... I believe it has been explained WHY this system was put in place and how it works..... The blow by flows into the VC drains back down into th upper oil pan and the fitting out of the top of the Vavle cover goes into the catch into the intake. No, oil DOES NOT get sucked through the top as this is the 3rd time I have said it, there are baffles in place where that fitting is PREVENTING it fom sucking up oil.

Read the damn thread and not the last page....

[moses]

you forgot the *snap* *snap* *snap*

[slider2828]

you forgot the *snap* *snap* *snap*

Hey the titties in your avatar, that is a girl named Carmen huh... She is hot!!!!

[INeedNewTires]

why dont you run a setup like this.

take out the T fitting, put a regular elbow facing towards the firewall, then run another elbow off the rear fitting on the top of the valve cover. run both of those lines to a T then to one of the catch can's bungs on top. Then on the other bung run your normal vacuum line from the intake. Now for the part thats different. Make sure the catch can is the style that has a drain plug on the bottom like this one and run a line from there back down to the crank case like the OEM rear line just drains to.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9842/catchcan2uu5.jpg

That might solve the problem, if it fills up, it will just route back to the oil pan where it can get picked up again by the oil pickup and thus no blown motor.

Or am i just wrong?

[slider2828]

why dont you run a setup like this.

take out the T fitting, put a regular elbow facing towards the firewall, then run another elbow off the rear fitting on the top of the valve cover. run both of those lines to a T then to one of the catch can's bungs on top. Then on the other bung run your normal vacuum line from the intake. Now for the part thats different. Make sure the catch can is the style that has a drain plug on the bottom like this one and run a line from there back down to the crank case like the OEM rear line just drains to.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9842/catchcan2uu5.jpg

That might solve the problem, if it fills up, it will just route back to the oil pan where it can get picked up again by the oil pickup and thus no blown motor.

Or am i just wrong?


Does not your system sound more complicated? Also I gotta weld another bung to the oil pan? That means I gotta remove the pan. Also you do realize thats how the stock system works. So I could have just run the drain back from my catch being filled correct with the most common setup? But the point your system is missing is that the catch will fill at a certain rate faster than gravity, your oil pick up and some sunction that your crank creates will pull the oil from that catch, but still it CAN fill faster than the drain. Remember your system is not running on a dyno, its running on the track where oil flies up due to elevation and side G's from cornering and with 18PSI on the turbo, you WILL drag oil into your intake because of the suction from the turbo. Trust me more trouble than it is worth, because you don't know for certain it will work in all situations.

Remember with the "normal" setup of catch in between front T and the intake pipe, on the street I don't get a drip of oil in my catch... Very different story running on the track, with 245 slicks, high elevation changes like in the picture, 18PSI all day long with on and off throttle, and with a 12/10 spring setup....

[blownmotor]

First you shouldn't be getting that much blow by. Even at constant 18psi you shouldn't be getting that much at all. Have you even chacked compression and leak down? I'm running 16psi and don't even get any oil coming out of my valvecover. Looks like a band aid than a solution to the actual problem.

[slider2828]

First you shouldn't be getting that much blow by. Even at constant 18psi you shouldn't be getting that much at all. Have you even chacked compression and leak down? I'm running 16psi and don't even get any oil coming out of my valvecover pull after pull for almost 2 hours. Looks like a band aid than a solution to the actual problem.

Engine is freshly built as I have said before and are you running on the track or drag? That is a big difference in what you are talking about... We are discussing setup not blowby.... Are you running a 2871R .86 AR... What tracks are you running, does your track have the elevation that I am running on? Is your suspension fully setup? Are you running slicks in long 60+ MPH corner? Are you twisting your chassis back and forth? Dragging down a straight track which sounds like you are doing does not stress the motor as much as on the race track. Come on! This just tells me you are NOT reading the entire thread.... Geezus...

Also I am still waiting on your answer about whether my setup preserves the oil as I have said before?

[INeedNewTires]

dude if you have slicks, a built motor, 12k 10k, cage, seats, suspension, etc etc etc and your worried about blowing up this fresh motor... then you have the money and are one of the few people that sounds like they NEED an Accusump. just do it already, you will appreciate it more than most, and look like you have the means and know how to install that shit.

BUY ME!
http://track-monkey.co.uk/images/2058v/parts/accusump.jpg

[blu808]

This is getting way to fucking complicated. I have another Valve cover coming in this week. So everyone just STFU until I can do the mods, take some pics, and post them up for everyone to see. No reason to confuse everyone.

[blu808]

Also yes. I run accusump on all of our cars.


cantonracing.com (http://www.cantonracing.com)


FTW

[slider2828]

Mods can just lock this thread..... This is done....

and an accusump doesn't relieve crank pressure. BTW...

[4x4le]

Mods can just lock this thread..... This is done....

and an accusump doesn't relieve crank pressure. BTW...

Ah, dont let them get you down man. Some people seem to understand it and some prople dont. On another forum I made a thread about my experiences tuning with e-85 and everyone became sudden experts and tried telling me a bunch of shit, shit that I knew was wrong and they tried to make me out to be an idiot.
It is easier for a dumb person to seak out a smart person and try to make that person look dumb than it is for the dumb person to try to make themselves look smart.
What these people that are telling you that there is nothing wrong with the stock system and there is something wrong with your motor dont realize is your basicially updating the s13 system to be more like the s14/15 system.
I also cant believe all of these supposed s13 sr owners act oblovious to the well known sr crank case ventelation issues these motors are plagued with. If they havent experienced the ventelation issues first hand they either dont have much of a build, or they are posers that dont give their car a good work out.

Man, dont let them get you down. While they may be making them selves sound smart to other dumb people, who cares if thats who they impress? When its all said and done they are going to be the ones getting laughed at.

You can tell that they dont read the posts either, otherwise they wouldnt say the things that they are saying either. Mark my words, it will happen time after time. No one wants to educate themselves. People are happier thinking what they always thought was correct is actually correct rather than admitt to themselves that they thought wrong.
I have had so many threads turn to nonsense because people were too lazy to read, or too dumb to think for themselves.

Just keep up the good work. Keep the thread open so you can end up with some pics in it showing whats up. If the thread gets locked its going to look like everyone else was right.


Oh, and I too have a freshly fully built sr that I track/drift with the gt2871R .86 and I too get blow by. My engine was built by a very well known engine builder as well.


Im really disappointed at the level of understanding some of these people are at.

[slider2828]

Thanks.... Luke (Blu808) is going to get another valve cover and they will see the mods... I need to get my wideband back on cause I upgraded to LM-2, so I might need a slight retune since its pulling in unmetered air.... Will try to keep this updated....

Thanks for your words 4x4le.... its tough sometimes

[4x4le]

Oh, are you blow through on your maf? Or is the hose off your valve cover inbetween your maf and filter? If its between your turbo and maf your not going to be getting any unmeasured air.

[blu808]

yes you will because the computer wont know where the crank case air is coming from.

[slider2828]

Its not blow through, so its definitely unmetered.... sucks... might be more welding for me now....

[blu808]

It is blow through ken. Combined with the crankcase windage.

[slider2828]

I mean I was saying its not a blow through setup.... so I am definitely getting unmetered air in there is what I meant.....

[blu808]

ohh ok. I thought you were saying its not blow by. haha. this shit is getting confusing.

[Slideways^Jordan]

A true oil catch can has Baffles on the inside like these from Toxic Fabrication at Nevrslo Motorsports located in league city, Texas-Houston area!

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7658/catchcanll2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8711/cc2ph2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7766/cc3qs9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[blu808]

Thanks. Those catch cans look really nice. However the issue is not the catch can. It is that oil gets out of the engine and into them in the first place.

Luke

[xdumbxguyx]

instead of welding an AN fitting on the T couldnt u have just capped off one side?
i would also like to see what u have done under the valve cover!
nice work keep it coming!

[slider2828]

instead of welding an AN fitting on the T couldnt u have just capped off one side?
i would also like to see what u have done under the valve cover!
nice work keep it coming!

That was the test setup.... We did cap it off when I first test fitted the system. Its just that oil tends to fill there in that small T section and in general I don't trust caps because if by any chance that thing blows off especially during boost, oil sprays everywhere and right on top of the manifold. In that case you are asking for fire under the hood and trust me you don't know until your car is up in flames. So not worth the risk, a safety issue.

[slider2828]

A true oil catch can has Baffles on the inside like these from Toxic Fabrication at Nevrslo Motorsports located in league city, Texas-Houston area!

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7658/catchcanll2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8711/cc2ph2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7766/cc3qs9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Uh... your black air oil separator has baffless.... And in this setup, your valve cover and head become the baffling, which helps keep the oil IN the system not outside the system such as with the catch setup. Also its useless if you aren't set up for a drain back on catch cans....

[SILVIA_KIDs14.5]

nah like I said before... slant tops don't have this problem because the crankcase tube already flows into the well designed valve cover (slanted top for a reason) so you just need to probably put a catch can between teh front VC tube and your intake...

Just consider you guys lucky...

ok thats wut i thought thanks again

[Bumnah]

Some Supra guys use the exhaust as the vacuum source. They put a one way valve in between the catch can, and the exhaust piping. That may be another option.

[slider2828]

Yes I have already thought of that... But you know how much exhaust flow in order create a vacuum.... a lot. also placement is paramount for the exhaust flow to create some vacuum.... Its a lot of work... but yah good thinking though, we are 4 bangers and its hard to have enough exhaust flow to create that vacuumas well, but maybe down the road.

I need to dump on my LM-2 to check my af... Like luke said I might be pulling a lot of unmetered air causing me to lean... Once I verify that, I will update this setup.... Hence the next step....

[slider2828]

Oh, are you blow through on your maf? Or is the hose off your valve cover inbetween your maf and filter? If its between your turbo and maf your not going to be getting any unmeasured air.

Hey, I was wondering are you running an aftermarket manifold?

[moses]

Hey the titties in your avatar, that is a girl named Carmen huh... She is hot!!!!

Acually those are my soon to be wifes titties and yeah she is hot.
BTW if it is unmetered air why dont you run it after the mafs? My blitz intake came with a bung on the intake cone itself.

[smelly240]

The moroso evacuation tubes for v8's work well as long as they're on a car with straight through exhaust - do research - because despite the pressure in the pipe - the slashcut tubes create a vacuum thats constant between 2in hg and 8 in hg.

Theres a big thread about this on fa and hondatech.

[slider2828]

Acually those are my soon to be wifes titties and yeah she is hot.
BTW if it is unmetered air why dont you run it after the mafs? My blitz intake came with a bung on the intake cone itself.

I wonder if the direction of the intake bung matters.... I personally think it might because of how it sucking air.... I dunno I have to ask luke and think about it, but I unmetered air IS after the MAFS. I need to run the tube before the MAFS. Well I have an HKS mushroom right now and it has an adapter.... Maybe I can do something about that.....

-Ken

[slider2828]

The moroso evacuation tubes for v8's work well as long as they're on a car with straight through exhaust - do research - because despite the pressure in the pipe - the slashcut tubes create a vacuum thats constant between 2in hg and 8 in hg.

Theres a big thread about this on fa and hondatech.

Yah I have to think more about this, I know its a good source of vacuum but its also a lot more trouble to run it right now.... In the near future I am sure.... I will take a look at it... Thanks great suggestion!

[4x4le]

Hey, I was wondering are you running an aftermarket manifold?



http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/14323425071.jpg

not the current state of my setup, but the manifolds im using

[slider2828]

Yah that definitely you will need AN fittings.... so close to the manifold that the rubber hoses will for sure collapse cause will be getting really heated.

[blu808]

Took the valve cover.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/turboskeet/01-30-09023.jpg

Then tig welded a -8 fitting on the rear of the valve cover, and a -10 onto the stock location.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/turboskeet/01-30-09029.jpg

Then fitted a -8 fitting on the filter base, and attached the fittings onto the catch can.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/turboskeet/01-30-09018.jpg

Then started to make the lines.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/turboskeet/01-30-09022.jpg

The -10 male fitting in the stock location has a 90 deg -10 push lock fitting attached. Then -10 push lock hose goes from there down to the oem crank case breather tube.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/turboskeet/01-30-09030.jpg

The -8 that is welded onto the top of the valve cover attaches to a -8 90deg fitting that attaches via stainless line to the catch can.
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/turboskeet/01-30-09032.jpg

I have also modified the baffling on the inside of the valve cover, and will try and get some pics tomorrow.

Let me know what you guys think.

[S14DB]

Why did you put the line before the MAF? Now you are introducing un-metered air into the system.

[bejota180sx]

i think grex kit comes with that on the filter so you recirculate it there instead of the pipe...


yeah i have one opinion luke... why did you have to invent this AAAAAFFFFTERRR i painted my valve cover? HAHAHA i could have sent it to you with the differential as soon as you tell me shipping quote to know how much to send you...

[slider2828]

Why did you put the line before the MAF? Now you are introducing un-metered air into the system.

Is it not he opposite? He put it in before the MAFS so the extra air IS metered as it enters the motor.

-Ken

[blu808]

Why did you put the line before the MAF? Now you are introducing un-metered air into the system.

I put it before the maf so the maf could meter the air that is going into the system.

We tried it a few ways. some with it after the maf, and even though it was a minimal amount of air, it made the car run like shit.

[S14DB]

You still have the PCV? If so the PCV is sucking air in through that line on manifold vac. Letting un-metered air into the system.

[Def]

Most of the blowby will be metered air(over 90%), so the correct way to route it is AFTER the MAF just like the stock setup.

For a quick proof on the mass of meter air vs. total blowby - the only other mass added to the combustion process is fuel, and that'll typically range from about 11-15:1, so less than 10% the total combustion/blowby amount.

[4x4le]

I dont think that the location you chose on the filter would create much suction. I could be wrong there, but I do think a small amount of piping from the maf to the filter would be a better location with the an fitting then welded to the piping.

With either setup (before the maf or after the maf) you have to decide which air you want to be un metered. At idle your going to be breathing in un metered air through the pcv. That might not creat much of a problem as the o2 sensor is going to get the air fuel ratio proper. Under boost with that setup your blow by air is going to be metered. My take on that is though is the air that comes from your crank case probably dont have much oxygen in it though, so I dont want to waste maf voltage on air that isnt going to be benefiting my engine. I also think that the tune will tend to change as the amount of blow by you do get increases with either the weather, or the wear on the engine, or the boost lever your running changes, you will then be creating higher maf voltages for air that has little to no oxygen in it. Air that does nothing for your engine besides create pressure.
In my eyes as a tuner I would rather have the air routed after the maf because you will be reading 100% metered air during open pcv operation and the extra air that has little to no oxygen to be found in it will not be metered (which I see as a plus).

Now like you said, if the car runs right 1 way and not the other then by all means do it the way your doing it. In my case though I have the ability to tune my car whenever I please and I see that air as something I dont want metered. I think that if you meter the blow by air that your car is going to need to be retuned more often as it will cause you to start running richer and cause you to pull more timing as your compression rings start to wear causing your engine to gradually become less powerfull sooner without a retune.

Thats just me. I wont hassle you about it because I think yall are great for coming up with this crancase vent solution and Im so freaking ready to see what you do to the baffiling!!!!

[slider2828]

To tell you the truth, the baffling is just drilling 3 wholes into the original baffles under where the fitting is. Its not that big of a deal, but its just making sure the oil has enough drainage that it won't be pushed out he top AN fitting. Not really a big deal. In stock form, it has like a little slit that allows oil to train, but definitely not enough if you have some blow by.

I am working on retuning, because the car doesn't run too well to where currently my setup in the pictures, its mounted behind the MAFS and the car isn't working too well. Like the car is bogging like its dragging the breaks... I am installing an LM-2 and a Phormula KS-4 that my girlfriend bought me. I love her.... anyways, that should tell me a lot. Probably won't get it done until the weekend.... Will keep you guys posted!!

At this point, we have 2 setups, 1 on DJPimpflex's car which is before the MAFS, and my car after the MAFS..... Once Lukes done we'll test DJ's car, but I think mine is much closer. I will also disconnect and see how much it affects the AFR of the car. Ergh freeway 3rd gear pulls unfortunately..... No Dyno at my disposal. Sucks!



I dont think that the location you chose on the filter would create much suction. I could be wrong there, but I do think a small amount of piping from the maf to the filter would be a better location with the an fitting then welded to the piping.

With either setup (before the maf or after the maf) you have to decide which air you want to be un metered. At idle your going to be breathing in un metered air through the pcv. That might not creat much of a problem as the o2 sensor is going to get the air fuel ratio proper. Under boost with that setup your blow by air is going to be metered. My take on that is though is the air that comes from your crank case probably dont have much oxygen in it though, so I dont want to waste maf voltage on air that isnt going to be benefiting my engine. I also think that the tune will tend to change as the amount of blow by you do get increases with either the weather, or the wear on the engine, or the boost lever your running changes, you will then be creating higher maf voltages for air that has little to no oxygen in it. Air that does nothing for your engine besides create pressure.
In my eyes as a tuner I would rather have the air routed after the maf because you will be reading 100% metered air during open pcv operation and the extra air that has little to no oxygen to be found in it will not be metered (which I see as a plus).

Now like you said, if the car runs right 1 way and not the other then by all means do it the way your doing it. In my case though I have the ability to tune my car whenever I please and I see that air as something I dont want metered. I think that if you meter the blow by air that your car is going to need to be retuned more often as it will cause you to start running richer and cause you to pull more timing as your compression rings start to wear causing your engine to gradually become less powerfull sooner without a retune.

Thats just me. I wont hassle you about it because I think yall are great for coming up with this crancase vent solution and Im so freaking ready to see what you do to the baffiling!!!!

[Def]

How would the air going through the PCV valve be unmetered?

There might be some delay between the metering and it entering into the combustion chamber, but the amount the PCV valve vents is very minor anyway.

[slider2828]

Yah the air through the PCV isn't much at all...

But I was just thinking, if I have a turbo at 18PSI, the air sucking out of the crankcase and valve cover is quite a lot. Enough to make a difference do you think?

[Def]

Yah the air through the PCV isn't much at all...

But I was just thinking, if I have a turbo at 18PSI, the air sucking out of the crankcase and valve cover is quite a lot. Enough to make a difference do you think?

It really doesn't matter, as the blowby gasses are a mix of inert gases since they've already undergone combustion and some already metered air with oxygen.

It can make small changes to your AFR, but that is just one of those thing your tune has to account for in the K-factor used. That's why I suggest everybody I do a tune for recirculate their blow by behind the MAF on the turbo inlet.

[4x4le]

I shouldnt even have to re tune mine when I do a setup like this. Im already routing the blow by gases in this order, Im just not using the valve cover to catch the oil from the lower crank case.

When I did retune for this current setup I have I left the k value alone as with the o2 feedback switch turned off still equaled a stoich idle. All I did was adjust the fuel map slightly after a few pulls. My timing isnt optomised to its fullest currently anyways so it was fine to leave in my instance. Shortly after routing it this way I ended up doing a full retune because I was just setting it up for e-85 as I was getting rid of any open pcv for that setup.
I honestly think youll be the happiest with your fitting between the maf and turbo like you have it after a short retune.

[Def]

The fuel map is a target AFR map. You should adjust your K-value until you get the correct AFRs. It makes tuning way easier, and that's actually how the Nissan patent aplication reads. Not sure why they didn't do it "correctly" with the S13 chassis(stock tune values are stupid once you learn what they mean).

[blu808]

In the past I have made setups like on the green car pictured and noticed major improvements in high end power, and with eliminating oil coming out of the engine and into the intake.

I think the tube before the maf would create more suction but I am not trying to create a huge vacume in the crank case, just eliminate any positive pressure.

I also did not want to fabricate a complex maf adapter/pipe before the maf as most people would not want to do that.

I have in the past had breathers mounted after the maf like the stock setup. On a stock engine, or a engine with rings that actually seal (unlike kens lol) it is not a problem. But on a built engine that has blow by at excessive boost levels it made the engine run like shit.

[moses]

I just read an old article in the premie section and there was like 3 or 4 ways to run a oil catch can and if you want to get rid of your old catch can, the best way is to run 2 catch cans. Right now I just have a catch can between the intake and the front of the T. Is this good enough or do I need to put it somewhere else. The thread is http://zilvia.net/f/premium-members/180040-friends-dont-let-friends-go-without-catchcan.html btw. It feels like there is a lot of wrong information in this thread and I wanted it clarified because you guys know your shit.

[blu808]

That has to be one of the most retarded threads I have ever read. So much misinformation.


While there are a few good points. Most are retarded, and speak from speculation. I showed you guys a system that works.

If you want it, buy it or copy it.
If you dont, build your own.

[4x4le]

The fuel map is a target AFR map. You should adjust your K-value until you get the correct AFRs. It makes tuning way easier, and that's actually how the Nissan patent aplication reads. Not sure why they didn't do it "correctly" with the S13 chassis(stock tune values are stupid once you learn what they mean).

yes I know this and my tuning editor (nistune) does this pretty well. I get the k value set to where the cells at idle read 14.7 and it idles at 14.7 but thats as far as I adjust the k value. I dont care if Im hitting the targets exactly later on in the map because there are other variables such as this system that will effect the targets and actual afr's.

[blu808]

You are trying to run a boosted engine at14.7 afr?

[Def]

yes I know this and my tuning editor (nistune) does this pretty well. I get the k value set to where the cells at idle read 14.7 and it idles at 14.7 but thats as far as I adjust the k value. I dont care if Im hitting the targets exactly later on in the map because there are other variables such as this system that will effect the targets and actual afr's.

If your k-value is set such that you get the correct AFR at idle, but not in boost, then your injector lag time is incorrect.

Do everything right where your fuel map is actually a target AFR map and it makes tuning very easy. Just fiddling with crap and getting it where it "kinda hits the right AFR here and there" is pointless when you have a nice MAF system that will give you your target AFRs anywhere you go in the map. The factory does that same crap where the AFR is all over the place and it looks like they just point tuned a few places resulting in a really lumpy fuel map and thus fuel delivery. Don't even get me started on their horrible timing maps...

[4x4le]

You are trying to run a boosted engine at14.7 afr?

no...

If your k-value is set such that you get the correct AFR at idle, but not in boost, then your injector lag time is incorrect.

Do everything right where your fuel map is actually a target AFR map and it makes tuning very easy. Just fiddling with crap and getting it where it "kinda hits the right AFR here and there" is pointless when you have a nice MAF system that will give you your target AFRs anywhere you go in the map. The factory does that same crap where the AFR is all over the place and it looks like they just point tuned a few places resulting in a really lumpy fuel map and thus fuel delivery. Don't even get me started on their horrible timing maps...

With un metered air entering into the system there is no need to adjust your k value or latency past what you do when setting it up as a closed system. The k value, latnecy and vq scale are there for your injectors and maf sizes.
Not for making other changes with other air thats entering the system. Thats when you just have to or at least should chalk it up and accept your targets to be off a little.
Now Im not talking that im ever off by much if any when doing gas tunes, but on my personal race car with it running off e-85 there are way different characteristics of that fuel such as flow, the actual stoich mixture being different, the vaporisation of it, ect that makes several things not read out the same as gas does on gas tuning software.

Just remember all the little math figures that were done and figured out for you on the targest is assuming your using gas flowing through the injector at that pulsewidth, not alchoal.

anyways im not in here to argue about tuning or to explain myself, lets see some pictures!!!!!!!!!!!
I know the baffeling sounds easy enough but I want to see a picture before taking the drill and welder to my valvecover.

[Def]

no...



With un metered air entering into the system there is no need to adjust your k value or latency past what you do when setting it up as a closed system. The k value, latnecy and vq scale are there for your injectors and maf sizes.
Not for making other changes with other air thats entering the system. Thats when you just have to or at least should chalk it up and accept your targets to be off a little.
Now Im not talking that im ever off by much if any when doing gas tunes, but on my personal race car with it running off e-85 there are way different characteristics of that fuel such as flow, the actual stoich mixture being different, the vaporisation of it, ect that makes several things not read out the same as gas does on gas tuning software.

Just remember all the little math figures that were done and figured out for you on the targest is assuming your using gas flowing through the injector at that pulsewidth, not alchoal.

anyways im not in here to argue about tuning or to explain myself, lets see some pictures!!!!!!!!!!!
I know the baffeling sounds easy enough but I want to see a picture before taking the drill and welder to my valvecover.

Ok, I'll stop "arguing," but just realize there is a right way and the hard way to go about tuning a MAF system.

FWIW, I made one theoretical change to the k-value based on the stoichiometric ratios of my tune and my AFRs were spot on everywhere with E85. I go from E10 to E85 with just a K-value change. That is how you properly tune a MAF system. :s101:

I'd also like to reiterate there is no unmetered air entering the system with a correct functioning PCV/catch can system routed behind the MAF.

[4x4le]

Ok well its cool, I just dont want to jack this thread. Im not saying your arguing, but Im really just not wanting to go back and fourth and have this conversation in this thread which isnt for it. When I go to retune my new setup (many things have changes and many more things will change soon so im going to retune) but Im going to spend allot of time making a "final tune". Pretty much I have just been making small changes to everything as time has went on although I did start with a different k value but it was difficult for me to calculate 72lb mds injectors for the use of e85. Are you using the REAL afr for e-85 or are you using the gas reading off the wideband? Just send me a pm or an e-mail ([email protected]) and we can discuss some of this because I dont want to jack this thread anymore.
Maybe you have better calculation methods than I do, which math isnt my strong point. What I have done however works flawlessly for me althoug I could see that there will be an advantage to having your targest spot on, but I dont think the end result will really matter once its right.

[sdrmiami]

I was having allot of problems with my catch can and swapped over to this..-12an with a moroso catch can. no more issues 520hp.. hey 4x4le ima be goin E85 soon and dialing in my cams. i will let you know my new numbers soon..

http://is.rely.net/3-476-16136-l-4mq9AOjWxxDQlFsXVWzw.jpg

[4x4le]

Sweet. Yea call me up sometime again man. Its been a minute and I dont see you on the other forum anymore. I dont know if your even running a turbo inlet on your car but, well just call me up before you make the change over. I would do something about the open ventalation on the can, even if it was mearly running an open hose over near your turbo so it would pull in the flamable blow by gases. The vapors are quite flamable with e85

[slider2828]

I don't under stand why you would vent at the center of the valve cover... Technically it doesn't make sense.... There is least amount of room for air flow and most air doesn't circulate in between the spark wells like that....

[slider2828]

Anyways I got my LM-2 on board now, I wish I didn't mess with the IACV now it messes with the original tune. God how I hate the emanage, its sensitive to every little thing. Since doing the setup my idle was about 100 rpm's higher so I tuned it down a little. At Idle the car runs actually better as said before. During high rpm, overall it ran richer for some reason, which I think it has something to do with the stock ecu and the emanage... I will tune for that when I put in my wideband knock sensor... So I will have more next week on this....

[sdrmiami]

I don't under stand why you would vent at the center of the valve cover... Technically it doesn't make sense.... There is least amount of room for air flow and most air doesn't circulate in between the spark wells like that....

i understand what your sayen but i had to for due to space issues. location does not really matter when you are useing a monster -12 port. like i said i had many issues with my catch can but all is resolved now with this setup. i just drained it out last week after running the car for the last few months (including a hard top end of 180mph) and all that came out was less than 2 ounces.

ive tested many setups and allways had issues with regular -8 even -10 but this to me is the problem solver.

[sdrmiami]

Sweet. Yea call me up sometime again man. Its been a minute and I dont see you on the other forum anymore. I dont know if your even running a turbo inlet on your car but, well just call me up before you make the change over. I would do something about the open ventalation on the can, even if it was mearly running an open hose over near your turbo so it would pull in the flamable blow by gases. The vapors are quite flamable with e85


email me your number.. [email protected]

Thank

Mike

[slider2828]

Ok just got back from the dyno... here are the numbers

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/gaert/PICT0071.jpg

Believe it or not the setup works!!! Pulled like crazy and no oil. I saw the pipes move under pressure so I know there is a LOT of vacuum.... Didn't have a chance for HP pulls with pipe on and off....

Will do pulls at a later date with pipes on and off. Keep you guys posted.

[4x4le]

are these dyno dynamics numbers?

[slickdrifter]

here was my solution. its about 6 inches tall maybe 7 i forget the dimensions. i just designed it and had my buddy make it while practicing his aluminum welding.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/JICdrifter/IMG00373jpg.jpg

I dont have the pics of my intake tube i had recently made but there will be a -8 AN fitting going into it.

[slider2828]

Dynojet 248H dyno is that low?

[SRpetey]

so what works better? putting the line before the maf or after? and will it work if the top fitting is welded on the side instead?

[mysharonna]

so what works better? putting the line before the maf or after? and will it work if the top fitting is welded on the side instead?

Would like to know also.

[jr_ss]

so what works better? putting the line before the maf or after? and will it work if the top fitting is welded on the side instead?

Would like to know also.


It depends on what type of catch-can system you are using... If you are using an open catch-can system (vented can), then I wouldn't plumb it back into the intake tract at all. I'd hook up your hoses to the VC and leave it like that, it'll vent itself. If you have a closed system(non-vented can), I'd get the special fittings needed to have it plumbed to the exhaust, after the turbo. The exhaust gases passing the fitting will create a venturi effect and will suck all that stuff out of the head through the can and into the exhaust. You can go before the turbo too but, that means you're sucking all that crap from the head straight into your turbo. Personally I wouldn't want it setup that way...

I run a vented can that has 2 hoses from the VC and a drain, that's plumbed back into the upper oil pan, so anything that does collect in the can goes back into the motor.

[PoorMans180SX]

Okay, so I have a real question for Blu808 and slider because I am genuinely interested in purchasing this. (especially since my setup is JANK right now).

There is no drain for the catch can on your particular setup, right? So if the catch can accumulates oil (which it eventually will, right?) how do you drain it? Remove the lines and dump it?

My setup is super lame right now, just a line routed from the T back, and then one to a "catch-can" (which I think is a spray can?) and a breather filter glued on top. EEEWW.

Also, I see you're running the line off the catch can before the MAF. How would you do this if you were running an Apex'i filter? Make another pipe in front of the MAF so you can run the line into it?

[g_mac530]

Im putting things together to get a hybrid valve cover made by MA. My question is what catch can should I run? Should I just get one with a drain and just run one line from the vc to the can and have it drain to the oilpan or should I run a line from the vc to a catch can and then from the can back to the intake?

[slider2828]

No you need to pipe it back into your intake after the MAFS. The turbo is the best source of internal negative pressure in your car. This will help the life of your motor and more HP. Especially when you are running at the track. If you have a or going to have MA make a hybrid S13.4 valve cover, then t doesn't really matter because your head has oil passages back into the upper oil pan, so you don't need to worry about train back. Pipe back into your intake, your engine will thank you for it.

[slider2828]

Okay, so I have a real question for Blu808 and slider because I am genuinely interested in purchasing this. (especially since my setup is JANK right now).

There is no drain for the catch can on your particular setup, right? So if the catch can accumulates oil (which it eventually will, right?) how do you drain it? Remove the lines and dump it?

My setup is super lame right now, just a line routed from the T back, and then one to a "catch-can" (which I think is a spray can?) and a breather filter glued on top. EEEWW.

Also, I see you're running the line off the catch can before the MAF. How would you do this if you were running an Apex'i filter? Make another pipe in front of the MAF so you can run the line into it?

It depends on what type of catch-can system you are using... If you are using an open catch-can system (vented can), then I wouldn't plumb it back into the intake tract at all. I'd hook up your hoses to the VC and leave it like that, it'll vent itself. If you have a closed system(non-vented can), I'd get the special fittings needed to have it plumbed to the exhaust, after the turbo. The exhaust gases passing the fitting will create a venturi effect and will suck all that stuff out of the head through the can and into the exhaust. You can go before the turbo too but, that means you're sucking all that crap from the head straight into your turbo. Personally I wouldn't want it setup that way...

I run a vented can that has 2 hoses from the VC and a drain, that's plumbed back into the upper oil pan, so anything that does collect in the can goes back into the motor.

Would like to know also.

so what works better? putting the line before the maf or after? and will it work if the top fitting is welded on the side instead?


Dun need to purchase, you can just bring it to a local weld shop. I think I had pictures of hte setup already. ANyways..... THe drainback is through the head, because the has oil passages to drain back into the upper oil pan, so you don't need any drain back at all. After the turbo or the exhaust is a good source, but its harder to plumb... All stock intakes from Nissan has a opening to be piped from the VC to the intake. Its WAY easier to plumb if you have the drain back system in my pictures with a catch to the intake. After the mafs is best because you don't want that crap to be metered..... Also if you have a catch, it catches about 80% of the crap, so you don't need to worry there is dirt and stuff flying back into the turbo. If you are REALLY anal, stuff steel wool into the can and that catches about 90% of crap.....

[g_mac530]

ok thanks that clears things up

[PoorMans180SX]

Thanks!

Luke, you have any pics of the modifications you did to the baffling?

[slider2828]

He doesn't.... But its easy, drill 6 holes under where the top port comes out of.... Just remember the placement of the top port is critical because too far back and you miss the baffling...

[born2boost]

here is what we did for crankcase pressure
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o131/ministryofdrift/coupe%20rebuild/SSPX0185.jpg
Ill take a final pic with the lines built
2 -12 an lines (with added baffling) to some moroso catch cans
ive ran 2 events and just drained them and theres not much there. I havent logged crankcase pressure yet but i might soon.

[PoorMans180SX]

He doesn't.... But its easy, drill 6 holes under where the top port comes out of.... Just remember the placement of the top port is critical because too far back and you miss the baffling...

Cool. I'm going to shave the letters off my valve cover anyway, so I won't have to worry about hitting them.

Very good thread btw, +1 imaginary rep to you and Luke.

[slider2828]

Please duct back into the intake, having it blow out the front doesn't help reduce pressure...... If you compare it to stock you are increasing crankcase pressure... Atmosphere = 0 pressure, Intake = negative pressure.....

[4x4le]

Yea, the only thing they are really doing there is giving the pressure more places to escape. The amount of oil dont mean you dont have pressure. Lots of oil dont mean you have lots of pressure. Lots of blow by dont mean you have lots of oil.

Blow by is the gases that seap past your rings.
Crank case pressure is the pressure that builds up due to it and can be reduced depending on how your rout your ventilation.
The oil has to do with how strait of a shot the blow by gasses have to your can.

I have tried thinking of several different ways after seeing this thread to run a drain back can from the bottom fitting and routing the line off the top up to the T and than keeping the other side of the T going to my can and then my turbo inlet.

Anyways, I guess Im still going to do it the way shown in this thread because it is the smartest and there are less lines to mess with and its just plain smart.

I REALLY want to see a pic though. I just hear 6 holes, not to big not too small, be carefull of placement although its easy (lol no hate) but as critical as it probably is to get this just right I really would love to see this done first.

And how much would it be if I just send my cover out again? You could take all the pics of it you want!

[nsn240]

Jesus this thread is a mess, so much random misinformation and junk.

If you can sort through it it's legit, I'm glad this thread finally sets this topic straight with some good information--- it's been discussed so many fucking times its ridiculous.

Setup from Blu looks good, my only question is why not route the tubes like the "s13.4" cover?
ex) Run Block vent --> rear VC vent then "T" vent --> the intake?

How did you guys determine that rear area was the best spot to weld the new fitting? - Just cause thats where the baffling is?

Either way it looks good, should work as long as it's a closed system.

[slider2828]

Damn I straight hate taking off that damn valve cover....

6 holes under the top breather, I think luke use d 1/8" drill bit and drilled 6 holes just spaced evenly about 1/8" apart in a honeycome cluster in the baffle..... Someone can take a picture and I can point you guys along...

-Ken

[4x4le]

BACK FROM THE DEAD!!!


Im not going to take any pics of the underside though although I kept begging for them. Luke does GREAT work and its worth your time and money to send it to him to have done.

Here is mine.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/misc/0818091636a.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/misc/0818091636.jpg
I sent him a brand new OEM blank (no paint) valve cover for him to do the modifications to and then I had a local powdercoater bake it up.

Im still waiting to install it because Im a noob (apparently) that ordered the wrong an fittings.

[slider2828]

So you had luke do this? Luke is really cool to the community, I don't think he minds taking pictures of the under side really.... I have been thinking about routing the PCV side to the negative pressure of the catch can. That would really flatten out the pressure build up on the other bank and the turbo with the negative pressure catch can would definitely be a great source of vacuum than that crappy 2mm opening for vacuum on the intake manifold side....

[4x4le]

Yea luke did my cover although I had someone local do the powder.

He is great. I may post pics if he says its cool. I cant remember what he said about it really. Even at that, many people arnt going to have the capability to weld on their cast aluminum valve cover so they would most likely have him do it anyways.


What I am interested in is the possibility of using my exhaust as the vaccume source instead of my turbo inlet. Im wanting to go blow through and i think im going to have a custom maf housing made or run a pmas maf and not ever introducing crank case ventalation to the inkake system would be a great way to keep it spotless in there.

[slider2828]

Yeah just message him, but the concept of the system came from me.... he executed lol...

[steve shadows]

I would make sure you are getting perfect full vacuum to the front of the compressor direct to the crank case and not just sourcing from the valve cover just something to keep in mind.

Just another nod on this.

I had my S13 SR on the Dyno Dynamics at 17 PSI of boost pull 395 WHP without the Crank Case vent hooked up to vacuum (i.e. compressor intake)

AFTER- I hooked up a stainless HKS catch can and ran the line from vacuum to the crank case my hp at 17 PSI went up to 412 WHP!!!

That is a major gain at the crank, close to 25 hp...

The more HP you are making the more you have to gain. The results are better on motors will more miles and factory clearances on the rings etc.

[slider2828]

God steve, I wanna run a nascar vacuum pump hahaha!!! I think those are belt driving but they get like upwards of 60 psi of vacuum lol, but I think that will turn our motors inside out lol, just like the sour candy face sucking in.

Like Steve said, the turbo is the greatest source of vaccum on our cars. Exhaust needs to escape at a certain velocity to create a large enough vacuum to make a difference. Yes the exhaust can help, but google it as there is a certain angle of the bung to create the greatest pull for vacuum, but either way, turbo is the best or an external source like an actual vacuum pump...

[4x4le]

Ok, exhaust idea is out, I really figured you would have to flow a ton of exhaust for it to make as much pull as the turbo.

[steve shadows]

Ok, exhaust idea is out, I really figured you would have to flow a ton of exhaust for it to make as much pull as the turbo.

You can do the Exhaust method, just make sure you do it right.

Supras and cars with biggest displacements work much better.

But good pointing this out ;)

Exhaust is also a good way to set itup...make sure you use some heavy duty check valves, stainless lines and set up the cir properly though

[VQMaxFan]

Im a bit confused, possibly has something to do with the time. haha

But from what I've collected so far, in my situation: Blow-by not being a problem with my motor, and i only really do drag, auto cross, and just drive the thing around is to just leave it routed stock and put a catch can that doesn't vent between the timing chain facing end of the T and the vacuum source.

Also mine doesn't have the separator on the firewall side. Since i'll have a catch can on the vacuum side of the T I'm assuming there shouldn't be a problem with the stock separator missing? Atleast other than the fact that the new catch can would be doing double duty.

Let me know what you guys think about what ive gathered from this thread. Thanks!

[slider2828]

Yes there is a sock separator but I didn't use one because it won't fitwith some turbo manifolds. Secondly, I just plain didn't use one because I wanted to relieve as much crankcase pressure as possibly and the separator really becomes an inhibitor to flow. I run on full course tracks with lots of elevation changes, like laguna seca, infineon, and thunderhill which WILL through oil to the top of the crank case just because of the elevation. Yes you can do it your way, as long as its a closed system, BUT the stock design is retarded because yes there is an oil separator, but that T is just plain stupid. It passes right through and nothing gets captured BACK into the oil system. So if any excess oil goes through, it goes into the catch can and you will need to empty it. This system basically is a really closed system where any oil or oil will be fed back into the head and back into the pan eventually. Hence why this design mimics a S13.4 valve cover without the expense of getting 2 valve covers, cutting it and welding it.

[4x4le]

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/silvia/0901091557a.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn40/4x4le/silvia/0901091557.jpg

[slider2828]

That is SEXY!!! Just remember to have a air tight catch can which is plumbed back into the intake track....

[JacksonBrown]

Question: that 90 fitting on the top/back of the valve cover -- why did you put it there? I'm assuming because pressure rises so therein the natural place to put it, correct?

[slider2828]

Its there because there is a baffle right under there.... So based on the valve cover design there is sorta like a filter. Ensures that only air escapes from the valve cover.

[4x4le]

That is SEXY!!! Just remember to have a air tight catch can which is plumbed back into the intake track....


Thanks bro.

I actually do have a can installed, it is just out of the shot. The braided line runs to it, and you can see if you look really close that reinforced clear hose is plumbed back into my turbo inlet right before the turbo. (that line running from the catch can.)

[moses]

So how long till this is complete with the final product and how much is being charged for this? Very interested

[blu808]

anyone that wants one PM me or slider2828 this is not a for sale thread.

[4x4le]

Yup. And final product is out..



Hey Luke. Bro, I still need the graphic emailed or pm'd to me so I can get some decals printed btw. I didnt get my car in the mag last event anyways because I hit the wall before the photoshoot....... Cars almost back together so send me the graphic design!!!!


btw, still loving the valve cover to death! People think im a baller or something and it creates more conversation than anything else on my car.

[change]

Yup. And final product is out..



Hey Luke. Bro, I still need the graphic emailed or pm'd to me so I can get some decals printed btw. I didnt get my car in the mag last event anyways because I hit the wall before the photoshoot....... Cars almost back together so send me the graphic design!!!!


btw, still loving the valve cover to death! People think im a baller or something and it creates more conversation than anything else on my car.


what kinda fitting did you use for where the line coming off the side of the valve cover goes back into the oil drain? did you use a hose clamp style one?

[rotas13]

^^^^ I have the same question!!!!

[sidedrifts13]

ima definately look into doing this

[slider2828]

This setup was almost designed a year ago LOL! Boy things come back...

Its AN Push Lock Fittings.... and it actually does not drain back to the oil drain. It goes from side breather to catch to turbo. This is used to reduce crank pressure, create as much negative pressure in the valve cover, and drain back oil from the crank to the case via built in oil drainage gallies from the head (stock lol).....

Yup. And final product is out..



Hey Luke. Bro, I still need the graphic emailed or pm'd to me so I can get some decals printed btw. I didnt get my car in the mag last event anyways because I hit the wall before the photoshoot....... Cars almost back together so send me the graphic design!!!!


btw, still loving the valve cover to death! People think im a baller or something and it creates more conversation than anything else on my car.

Hey how is the system working for you? Did no oil in the catch right? No loss of fluids either? Clean intake?

[change]

and it actually does not drain back to the oil drain. It goes from side breather to catch to turbo.

the hose that comes out where the T used to be. that goes back to the oil drain. that is what im talking about, what fitting is used in that exact spot. i can see the rest and im not an idiot.


and i know what the system does, no need to explain that over and over again like you have been doing.

[rotas13]

^^^^ditto^^^^^^^

im pretty sure its just a hose clamp style. it would be hard to weld a fitting down there to the oil drain. But I could be wrong

[4x4le]

what kinda fitting did you use for where the line coming off the side of the valve cover goes back into the oil drain? did you use a hose clamp style one?

Off the side of the valve cover is a -10an push lock style. That gets its air from the lower block. the valve cover then is whats used as the primary catch can and the valve cover is what enables drain back. The vaccume that is placed on the system comes from your turbo inlet pipe. I chose to weld the bung close to the turbo away from the maf. A -8an line runs from there to a catch can, and from the catch can to a -8an push lock fitting on the valve cover.

Sure you can clamp hoses on, but you really cant do that with braided lines and you should be using braded lines to get the most out of this setup due to them not closing up under vacuum.


Hey how is the system working for you? Did no oil in the catch right? No loss of fluids either? Clean intake?

It works great! I may get the smallest amout of oil in my can, nothing major at all and I have not had to empty the can at all since installing the new valve cover. Im talking the smallest amount is in the can and that may very well have been in there from before the install of the new cover.

Yes I do have a can though. Thinking about taking it out of the system however.....

[codyace]

http://www.codyace.com/albums/album415/1320_36.sized.jpg

Not the bes picture, but it was the first I found

I've ran mine like this now for 3 years, without issue or qualm. No oil sprayed anywhere, none in the catch can. I did build her a little tight, but that shouldn't make any difference. I think the biggest 'hindrence' to setups using the intake as the vacuum source (such as my own) is that it will undoubtedly suck oil up out of that rear port. I added the OE oil/air seperator and haven't had an issue since.

I skimmed much of this thread, but was really curious as to how sourcing from an unbaffled (unless I missed the part where the added fittings are baffled) part was going to make a worthwhile difference. I would love to just pull off the setup and dump it into the downpipe, but my stuff doesnt' leak/works/isn't an issue...and I'm all about not touching what works.

[slider2828]

Basically oil will get pulled from the crank case or flung from the crank case on heavy altitude change tracks. I run Laguna and another local track called Thunder where I am going over a really tall hill at top of 3rd.... This vertical G can really slosh the oil in your crank case up to the whole where vac is normally evacuated. With any negative pressure this will suck the oil past the T into a catch can and fill it up in about 2-3 laps.

If you look at the design, it goes from crank case to the valve cover. This design right here is inherent to the valve cover in 2 ways:

The input is 1: Lower than where the oil is being sucks out. 2: Where we placed the top fitting that goes to a catch can has a "built in" oil separator from factor. You just have to look at the valve cover design itself. We drilled holes into this separator to allow more suction from our turbo's to create neg pressure in the head and ultimately in the crank case as everything needs to be sealed.

3: The head has built in drainage for oil. This is normal as the head has gallies to drain oil back into the oil pan from the squirters to lube the cams, so hence its closing the system. No oil should ever get into the can because it flows through these gallies back to the pan....

Hope this answers all questions....

[4x4le]

Im jealous of your local tracks.... still dont know if I could deal with cali though lol

[slider2828]

Seriously F..... cali... Have to do smog now.... so not fun.... But yeah on some of the altitude changes, the front end almost comes off the ground.....

Just gotta make sure you point before lift off lol.....

[4x4le]

And tagging rumble strips at the apex's can slosh the oil around as well. I feel that many of the people that say that they have ran their setups for X years with no problems more than likely do not track their cars as much as the people that find this to be such a valuable investment. Im not saying thats a bad thing, and if you feel no need in upgrading then by all means spend your money on something you actually can benefit from. With the majority of my miles being on the track, usually over 4k rpms while in boost quite often, my needs are quite different than someone that mostly just drives their car with occasional track time.

And slider, what do you have to do at emissions time? I think if I were to live in cali I would keep a stock motor/intake/exhaust in the garage and swap it out for a few days once a year.

You also bring up a good point about liftoff...... If I were to be into road racing instead of drifting and had a very fast car I would go so broke.... Aero that actually works is $$$$, especially stuff for causing front down force.

[codyace]

Basically oil will get pulled from the crank case or flung from the crank case on heavy altitude change tracks. I run Laguna and another local track called Thunder where I am going over a really tall hill at top of 3rd.... This vertical G can really slosh the oil in your crank case up to the whole where vac is normally evacuated. With any negative pressure this will suck the oil past the T into a catch can and fill it up in about 2-3 laps.

If you look at the design, it goes from crank case to the valve cover. This design right here is inherent to the valve cover in 2 ways:

The input is 1: Lower than where the oil is being sucks out. 2: Where we placed the top fitting that goes to a catch can has a "built in" oil separator from factor. You just have to look at the valve cover design itself. We drilled holes into this separator to allow more suction from our turbo's to create neg pressure in the head and ultimately in the crank case as everything needs to be sealed.

3: The head has built in drainage for oil. This is normal as the head has gallies to drain oil back into the oil pan from the squirters to lube the cams, so hence its closing the system. No oil should ever get into the can because it flows through these gallies back to the pan....

Hope this answers all questions....

I run Watkins Glen, and Limerock...both with HUGGGGE changes as well. Pocono doesnt' have the huge changes, nor does NJMP, however they have some severe banking...I understand the aspect of oil coming up, but I can't see how it works superior to how I have my setup (not trying to be a dickhead, just trying to learn more, as I'll change in a heartbeat if I can see a reasonable advantage).

Again, that rear port on the block goes to an OEM seperator, which goes the valvecover T, which goes to the catch can, which goes to my intake pipe. On your setup, I see the rear port, dumping into the valve cover, and then a baffled hole on the back half (under that little tray inside the valve cover) going to the catch can...so where yours dumps into the V/C, and then drains back through those holes near the lifters (and the front/rear of the engine), I just stop any oil sucking up at the rear of the motor, with the OE baffled seperator.

I guess what I'm getting at, is welding the fittings any better than using the OE baffled seperator...as our setups are similar aside from that.

And tagging rumble strips at the apex's can slosh the oil around as well.

I run a IJ Crank scraper (teflon) and baffle as well for issues like this in the actual crank case as well.... Certainly it shakes the car, but your suspension absorbs most of the impact.

In regard to RPM and boost, I totally relate. I've got a 4.6 Final Drive, and a 2871r...I'm always in boost.


FWIW We've run FWD cars for years with catch can setups like mine, without issue. I think the biggest advantage is the OE seperator (which FWD has as well)



I also cant believe all of these supposed s13 sr owners act oblovious to the well known sr crank case ventelation issues these motors are plagued with. If they havent experienced the ventelation issues first hand they either dont have much of a build, or they are posers that dont give their car a good work out.

PS: 11 or 12 track days, over 15,000 miles of hell on street, 400 hp...no issues. Now on my original motor I did get a little, but that's because the poor motor was tired.



Oh, and I too have a freshly fully built sr that I track/drift with the gt2871R .86 and I too get blow by. My engine was built by a very well known engine builder as well.

I've built over 10 SR's at this point (turbo, n/a, FWD and RWD) and never have issues with cars. As before, I do build my cars fairly tight, but they have no oil consumption issues, have no blow buy, and all still run. Not saying your guy isn't capable, but it seems like something else may be an issue.

[4x4le]

I understand the aspect of oil coming up, but I can't see how it works superior to how I have my setup (not trying to be a dickhead, just trying to learn more, as I'll change in a heartbeat if I can see a reasonable advantage).
..........................
I guess what I'm getting at, is welding the fittings any better than using the OE baffled seperator


If your not having issues, then there is honestly no reason to change what your doing. If however your in boost long enough to be pulling enough vac long enough to suck enough oil into your separator to fill it you will have a problem. Also if you dont close your throttle long enough to allow the separator to drain back you will have a problem then too.


I've got a 4.6 Final Drive, and a 2871r...I'm always in boost.


That sounds dandy! What does the 4.6 gear set come out of???



PS: 11 or 12 track days, over 15,000 miles of hell on street, 400 hp...no issues. Now on my original motor I did get a little, but that's because the poor motor was tired.


I wasnt calling you or anyone out on the comment, but it is a general statement I hear allot, mostly by people that just street drive their cars. I also know several sr owners that fill up their cans.


I've built over 10 SR's at this point (turbo, n/a, FWD and RWD) and never have issues with cars. As before, I do build my cars fairly tight, but they have no oil consumption issues, have no blow buy, and all still run. Not saying your guy isn't capable, but it seems like something else may be an issue.

I know for a fact that there is no way this engine has anything wrong with it. I am in business with the builder, he has never built a bad engine, and honestly everything he touches turns to gold. This engine has been used and abused and compression and leakdown has always stayed golden for the few years it has been alive.

Just keep in mind, the old style s13 valve covers with separators on the rear line was discontinued in favor of the s14/15 valve cover design for a reason. People started hacking the 13 and 14 covers up and welding them together for a reason. And this is just a cheaper easier way to end up with the same thing. It is smarter, more efficient and more fool proof/fail safe than the factory design.
No one is trying to bully anyone into getting this mod done, and if you dont have the issue with filling up a can (with your setup routed back to intake) then there is no real reason to do this.

An easy way to not fill up a can is to pollute with a breather filter instead of routing back to intake, however then you are missing out on power, your car is running off un metered air any time your in vacuum, and your not getting rid of as much crank crase pressure as you can be. If your still spitting oil with a breather filter then you do have a engine problem because there shouldnt be enough crank case pressure to cause oil spatter out of the system and there is no vacuum source to pull it out.

[codyace]

If your not having issues, then there is honestly no reason to change what your doing. If however your in boost long enough to be pulling enough vac long enough to suck enough oil into your separator to fill it you will have a problem. Also if you dont close your throttle long enough to allow the separator to drain back you will have a problem then too.

Maybe we've lucked out then hehe. At the Glen I can see 145-150 mph, and at Pocono near the same, so I'm certainly in the hammer for a while. I couldn't imagine cranking the boost all the way haha, i'm tooooo chickenshit haha.



That sounds dandy! What does the 4.6 gear set come out of???

Sit down for this one...you'll never imagine it...but out of an Xterra Front Pumpkin hehe. The SE models came with 4.6 Final Drives, as well as 4.9!!! Simple bolt (well press too) in affair.

It's sorta like S2000 using CRV gearsets haha.





No one is trying to bully anyone into getting this mod done, and if you dont have the issue with filling up a can (with your setup routed back to intake) then there is no real reason to do this.

Oh I know...I'm just always looking for ways to upgrade parts on my car :D If there is a better way, and I can easily change it, I'm all about it...but at the same time I don't like changing parts to change them :D



An easy way to not fill up a can is to pollute with a breather filter instead of routing back to intake, however then you are missing out on power, your car is running off un metered air any time your in vacuum, and your not getting rid of as much crank crase pressure as you can be. If your still spitting oil with a breather filter then you do have a engine problem because there shouldnt be enough crank case pressure to cause oil spatter out of the system and there is no vacuum source to pull it out.

I hear ya there brother! I never run open elements.

[slider2828]

Hey you guys hit it right on the nose. In the stock setup there are actually 2 separators. The black can which is the separator, but ALSO in 1 of the pipes between the black can and the black box, there is a restrictor in the pipe. THere is a picture of it somewhere in this thread, but I think this was just a band-aid by nissan. Its actually quite sad they did it this way.

Anyways this is only if you need to eliminate the entire stock setup and do it properly, but this setup also corrects metered and unmetered air and increase negative pressure by completely closing off the system. Some people eliminate the boxes cause they are in the way of equal length manifolds which humps over a lot and the black canister is in the way.

In terms of smog, SR's are straight illegal here.... So as we speak I need to get another smog... sigh.... money down the drain...

[4x4le]

Hell, I forgot about the restrictor piece, Right there is where this system is better because it can flow more smoothly than the stock setup.

[slider2828]

That black thing doesn't work for shit... its the restrictor i the pipe that really blocks stuff out... And with that restrictor and the separator, there isn't much vacuum going to the crank case.... Its been thought up a lot.... hahaha a lot of sleepless nights for me thinking about this.

[4x4le]

A good expirement to perform.......

Lets get a vac/boost gauge and hook it to the lower tube going to the block. We need someone with a stockish setup and someone with our setup.

[slider2828]

Yeah totally... But condition of the block and turbo setup would make a HUGE difference.... Well codyace and your setup seems to be in the best condition.... But how can you measure? You mean T off between the black canister and the crankcase on the back vs. just a vac tube behind us....

But the main thing is this is on boost... LOL its hard to have a very very good comparison.... But great idea.

[NMs14.5kouki]

Sit down for this one...you'll never imagine it...but out of an Xterra Front Pumpkin hehe. The SE models came with 4.6 Final Drives, as well as 4.9!!! Simple bolt (well press too) in affair.

It's sorta like S2000 using CRV gearsets haha.


so can someone explain to me what the 4.6 final drive actually does? i dont understand gear ratios at all at this point. lol it would be for a drifting aspect, and some road racing.

[slider2828]

4.6 the higher the number the closer the overall gear ratio, the faster the acceleration. But you also really kill your top speed....

[NMs14.5kouki]

alright cool thanks man. and does anyone have pics of where to drill the holes in the baffling for this?

[slider2828]

Of course I do... If you read any part of this thread you would know......

[NMs14.5kouki]

i actually did read it a couple of times to fully understand it. i know its just right past the E on the top, and i know the pattern that was talked about i just wanted to see the actual pics to get a better idea before i start drilling the valve cover.

[codyace]

Yeah totally... But condition of the block and turbo setup would make a HUGE difference.... Well codyace and your setup seems to be in the best condition.... But how can you measure? You mean T off between the black canister and the crankcase on the back vs. just a vac tube behind us....

But the main thing is this is on boost... LOL its hard to have a very very good comparison.... But great idea.

Agreed, but in order to even begin T-ing into that pipe is going to be a nitemare, considering the OE tube length allows for about 1/2 inch between the black catch can, and the fitting out of the block...would require some certain modification and welding to get a nice T in there...and as much as I'd love to help, I don't wanna take it all apart hahaa.

[codyace]

so can someone explain to me what the 4.6 final drive actually does? i dont understand gear ratios at all at this point. lol it would be for a drifting aspect, and some road racing.

The main reason I went with a 4.6 final drive (also remember there is a 4.4 in JDM skyline/180sx diffs) is due to my track driving. I found myself in many places at a 'stalemate' between being too low in a gear (2000-2500 rpm) or being way to high in the lower gear (tirespin city)

When I put the 4.6 in the car, I can leave it in the higher gear, and use the mechanical advantage of the gearset to pull me through.




4.6 the higher the number the closer the overall gear ratio, the faster the acceleration. But you also really kill your top speed....

Top speed killing is relative to me. The car will do 130 at the top of 4th gear, which really sets it up almost perfect for road course and drag racing. I know 5th puts a heavier mechanical load on the motor, but I'm only goign another 20 mph in that gear on 2 tracks I visit.

I love the gears because you can't beat the 2-3rd gear of the car when ripping around....man does it it rip!

[blu808]

Can a Mod close this thread? It is getting filled up with shit. We will open a new one with pics, and a complete description to eliminate the confusion.

[codyace]

Can a Mod close this thread? It is getting filled up with shit. We will open a new one with pics, and a complete description to eliminate the confusion.

Just get one to prune it :D

PS: Always enjoy reading your fab pics/posts, even before 'fab forum' Awesome stuff!

[blu808]

thanks Cody. Please PM Andrew Bohan for the stickers.

[Big Zee]

Can you post the link for that thread before this one locks please. it's very confusing to me, and I'm still trying to understand it all haha.

What is the cost of having you modify the VC Blu808?

[nickauger]

No more news ?

[slider2828]

Its already done and complete nothing to post as the mod works.... Pictures were posted. If you need this done. Please contact Blu808 via pm... He will tell you the price....

Tested over and over again, no oil what so ever in the catch at 18PSI 380HP.....

[4x4le]

Indeed. No news is good news. Mine is on my engine, looks beautiful, never gave me trouble.

Get ahold of Luke for yours today.


Im still wanting luke to email me a .gif or jpeg of his blu808 decal so I can rep him on my car. I have a local graphic guy so Im not really wanting to order it from cali.

[nickauger]

The setup look very good but I'm from Canada... so I have to do it myself. On the PCV side what did you do ?

[Z U L8R]

But when you really need vacuum pulled on the crankcase is when the intake manifold is under boost. Exactly why the stock PCV valve is basically a check valve which prevents boost in the intake manifold from going to the valve cover.

The turbo inlet is the best source of vacuum at WOT.

this is 100% correct.

i didn't bother reading pages 2 3 4 5 or 3452345

[slider2828]

Indeed. No news is good news. Mine is on my engine, looks beautiful, never gave me trouble.

Get ahold of Luke for yours today.


Im still wanting luke to email me a .gif or jpeg of his blu808 decal so I can rep him on my car. I have a local graphic guy so Im not really wanting to order it from cali.

Hey 4x4le, just ask Lab17 he exclusively makes stickers for Blu808...

Read the thread also if you want to know how we did it. Its explained very detailed on my everything is placed as is.....

[blu808]

You guys can get in contact with my by visiting my website.

Blu808 (http://www.blu808.com)

[ibi_d]

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7285/img3214g.jpg

[slider2828]

^^ Those ports look way too far back of the valve cover as you are out of position for the stock baffles in the built in. Also do you have a vacuum to that catch, otherwise its pretty useless.....