how bad is it? (pics)

[realracersuseapc]

ok heres a pic of my 240sx. i just got it a few weeks ago. when i took off the fender i saw this. what do you guys think of it? thats frame damage right? if i get it fixed, would it still be pretty much just as stiff?

[DRO916]

damn...and they didnt tell u about that before u bought it??? was it a private owner who sold it??? or dealer??? did u ask if there was any prior accidents....and what did they say....because my friend had a hatch that he was refunded for due to mileage rollback that wasnt stated when it was for sale...

[Yoshi]

Look for my post about a free carfax report. USE IT.
Your picture doesn't really give any detail about the important parts (inside the wheel well area)... so I don't think anyone can really tell you the extent from what is shown.

What's blatantly obvious tho, is that that car has been in a wreck, it's just a question of how severe, I sure hope you're not claiming that you didn't know there was damage, as it's REALLY obvious that the car, more likely than not, has serious frame damage. Just looking at the driver's headlight and the body panel lines, you can tell it's been wrecked. Just look at the door! It's entirely possible that the damage is superficial, but looking at the bends between the wheel and the door leads me to believe that the driver's side wheel was bashed in pretty good, and, I would hope, had all the suspension parts replaced.

I'm guessing this poor car was either hit at about 20mph or so from the side, or this thing his a guard rail pretty hard from someone's failed drifting attempt. If you can give us some better pictures, I'm sure people will be able to help you. does it drive straight?

[realracersuseapc]

i bought it from a private owner. he told me that some old lady bumped into it. it didnt look that bad when i first got it because he had a new fender on it. i can take more pics tomorow, what angles and what parts should i take the pictures of to give you guys a better idea of the damage? it does sort of drive straight, it veers to the right a little. thanks for the replies

[Yoshi]

Yikes man. I hope you got it cheap :/
Is the whole weather guard inside the fender gone? or did you just take it off yourself? Like i said before, it looks like way more damage than a "bump".... but you could be lucky.

Try to get pictures of the inside of the wheel well area, particularly where the suspension mounts to the chassis, try to get the TC rod mounts too, they tend to be the first to bend under stress like that. Also take note of the dirt buildup on the suspension parts. Do they look cleaner than the rest of the chassis? if so, chances are they were replaced, another sign that the car took a pretty big hit. If the accident was reported, it *should* show up in the Carfax report, make sure you do that, I think the free offer ends tomorrow, so do it asap! I say "should" because a friend of mine has been in 2 accidents and neither showed up in the report.

Get pix of every part and every angle you can. You can never have enough documentation. you might also want to take the passenger side apart and compare angles of parts to check everything is sound. With damage like that, and the car not driving straight, i'd VERY concerned about my own personal safety if I was you.

[realracersuseapc]

i got it for 1200. the guy signed a paper that said if it cant be registerd, then i can return the car and get my money back. i think i might have to return it because it totally bombed the smog test and i cant register until it passes. the thing is i dont know wether the car is worth keeping or not. it also has a leaking o-ring or injector. i took a few more pics since it was still light outside.

[Jeff240sx]

Yea. That car is fuxored. I'd return it. He signed the paper, and the car sucks and can't be registered. Even if you got it fixed (with a grand worth of stuff to pass and repair busted parts), you could have a perfect car for the same ammount.

And... did you not pop the hood to see the damage??
-Jeff

[realracersuseapc]

well the rest of the car is ok, its just that injector problem and the frame. id really rather not go throught the trouble of returning it. its hard to find 240sx coupes and its just too much of a hassle. . the the main thing thats buggin me is the frame. the front part, where its damaged doesnt look like it needs to be very strong. im thinkin if the frame would b too weak, then ill just use it as a commuter car and not do any mods. if i took it to a body shop and had the frame straightened, would it be too weak?

[adey]

The suspension bits that I can see from that photo look good... tie rod (that's most likely to be bent from any sort of curb humping) actually looks fine... granted I can't see it all.

Does the car center itself (when you let go of the steering wheel), or do you have any (other) steering/straight-line problems? Is the car "unstable" at all?

[realracersuseapc]

well it sorta veers towards the right but its not too bad. everything else seems fine.

[MaxSilvia]

that sux dude, not a very cool surprise to find. good luck figuring out your situation.

[realracersuseapc]

thanks, right now im just tryin to fix the injector o rings. soon as i got the engine running fine, i need to install a new cat probly. it doesnt pass smog right now for alota reasons. its running rich, and a few other things. would the leaky injector cause that? well mainly i just need to get it to pass smog so i can resgister it. after that comes the cosmetic stuff. i got a long project ahead of me... and no money either:(

[96SEChick]

Originally posted by realracersuseapc
thanks, right now im just tryin to fix the injector o rings. soon as i got the engine running fine, i need to install a new cat probly. it doesnt pass smog right now for alota reasons. its running rich, and a few other things. would the leaky injector cause that? well mainly i just need to get it to pass smog so i can resgister it. after that comes the cosmetic stuff. i got a long project ahead of me... and no money either:(

So, I guess you've decided to keep the car? Have you called the seller and told him it didn't pass smog?

[realracersuseapc]

the paper that he signed wasnt really worded that well so i cant return it. it said that if it couldnt be registered then he would return the money, but technically it can be registered but it just needs alot of work. it isnt really that bad though. actually if you look at it from the passenger side, it looks perfect:p

[kanekz]

Well if your going to be happy w/what you got...then be it! Good luck fixing the damages. IMHO..I would TRY to return it but o'well.

[rancid240]

Getting the frame fixed at a body shop, if there is frame damage, is hella expensive, and the car will never be the same. most insurances junk the car automatically when there is frame damage. i would at least try to get some money back from the guy...

[rancid240]

Originally posted by realracersuseapc
the paper that he signed wasnt really worded that well so i cant return it. it said that if it couldnt be registered then he would return the money, but technically it can be registered but it just needs alot of work. it isnt really that bad though. actually if you look at it from the passenger side, it looks perfect:p

What a joke, dude. Basically you are saying that even if the car has severe frame damage and the whole thing just fell apart in your driveway, you still technically couldnt return it because its fixable?

[Jeff240sx]

Doesn't your state have a lemon law? Tell the guy that you'll call authorities to settle this dispute in small claims court. Tell him that you didn't know the extent of the damage, and that it should have been totalled out. Tell your insurance company to consider it a total loss and not to insure it. That way, it can't be registered since it has no insurance.
Man. Please. Do not keep that car. It will never be correct, and will never be worth what you paid for it. Get a new one.
-Jeff

[realracersuseapc]

Originally posted by rancid240
What a joke, dude. Basically you are saying that even if the car has severe frame damage and the whole thing just fell apart in your driveway, you still technically couldnt return it because its fixable?

yup. sux huh?


Originally posted by Jeff240sx
Doesn't your state have a lemon law? Tell the guy that you'll call authorities to settle this dispute in small claims court. Tell him that you didn't know the extent of the damage, and that it should have been totalled out. Tell your insurance company to consider it a total loss and not to insure it. That way, it can't be registered since it has no insurance.
Man. Please. Do not keep that car. It will never be correct, and will never be worth what you paid for it. Get a new one.
-Jeff [/B]

well im in CA and im sure about a lemon law. i dont really wanna take it to court, wouldnt i need a lawer and everything? im not really good at this legal stuff. anyways its too much trouble.

well every1s tellin me to give up on restoring the car, so is the frame really that bad? cuz when i was lookin at it, it doesnt look like the front part is "load bearing" or wutever the word is.

[Jeff240sx]

Originally posted by realracersuseapc
well every1s tellin me to give up on restoring the car, so is the frame really that bad? cuz when i was lookin at it, it doesnt look like the front part is "load bearing" or wutever the word is.
Talk to a lawyer about it. Then, tell the guy that you can and will have one. He will understand that you are upset, and need your money back.
Also, the front end is the part that bears loads during brakeing and turning. It also keeps your car going straight, and not eating up tires.
Finally, it's also load bearing in the event of an accident. There are crumple zones built into cars, and it looks like they have been crumpled. In an accident, very serious bodily damage can result from the car not crumpling like it's supposed to, and creating new crumple points, usually at the seat or floorboard.
Do not keep that car. That is my advice that you should really think about.
-Jeff

[deviousKA]

keep it. from what i can see there is no critical frame damage. i could fix it with a 4x4 nissan, come along, and a cherry picker but thats me. if you take your lights, bumper and other parts off the frontend and get a bodyshop quote, it will be cheaper than you think. if the car is all good cept for that and the leaky injector, and its a coupe....... id say your doing alright. oh and straight 240sx doors are easy to find, i seen like 10 at the wrecking yard yesterday.

[realracersuseapc]

ok thanks for ur advice, but i dont really have any money right now so i doubt i can afford a lawer.
if the crumple zones are alredy bent, in an accident, wouldnt they just bend more since its weaker than the rest of the car?
i guess ill just have to use the car to commute short distances like to school and stuff.
it sounds really bad, alot worse than i thought it would be. my new plan is to just get it running, and use it for light transportation. when i get a lil more money, then i can sell it and buy a good 240sx to actually mod. good idea? bad idea?

[realracersuseapc]

u know how on the fender mount its like 2 metal beam things that join near the front (yes i suck at explaining things)? well its messed up the most after the point where it become 1 "beam thingy". is that past the load bearing? and is the part circled in green a big problem or would it b ok to leave it like that?

if you have no idea wut im tryin to say then ill try to draw a better pic or sumthin. so i can show if my "photoshop skills":rolleyes:

[drift freaq]

first off , your car quite possibly has strut tower damage . which would explain why it pulls to one side . Judging by the damage in the photo this is almost a give . your car basically need s a frame pull thats not a cheap deal with the damage you have if its a 89-90 its not even worth doing . they do not have high resale value stock here in socal. Second off California state law states that the smog test is up to the seller. If he sold you the car without a smog he has to get it smogged for you. Take the car back !! Demand your money back, if balks threaten to call the cops. He is violating the law in several places . He lied about damage to the car that could be dangerous to you if its not fixed. If he sold you the car and said ya there is frame damage that would be one thing . don't be dumb about this . Stand up to his ****.

[realracersuseapc]

Originally posted by drift freaq
first off , your car quite possibly has strut tower damage . which would explain why it pulls to one side . Judging by the damage in the photo this is almost a give . your car basically need s a frame pull thats not a cheap deal with the damage you have if its a 89-90 its not even worth doing . they do not have high resale value stock here in socal. Second off California state law states that the smog test is up to the seller. If he sold you the car without a smog he has to get it smogged for you. Take the car back !! Demand your money back, if balks threaten to call the cops. He is violating the law in several places . He lied about damage to the car that could be dangerous to you if its not fixed. If he sold you the car and said ya there is frame damage that would be one thing . don't be dumb about this . Stand up to his ****.

well i think it pulls to the side its just sum small suspension stuff. i think it can be fixed with an alignment. it also came with an extra door, so thats not a huge problem. one thing though is that i didnt know smog was up to the seller. i dont really know my legal standpoint on this because he never really lied about it. he didnt really bring it up.

devious said that there doesnt seem to be major frame damage so maybe i should take it to a body shop to get an estimate first?

i would really rather not take legal action, but if i did, it would have to be a last ditch effort.

i learned an important lesson from all of this: when buyin a used car, check every single damn thing!!! i just hope my second car wont give me this much trouble:o

[Jeff240sx]

Originally posted by drift freaq
first off , your car quite possibly has strut tower damage . which would explain why it pulls to one side . Judging by the damage in the photo this is almost a give . your car basically need s a frame pull thats not a cheap deal with the damage you have if its a 89-90 its not even worth doing . they do not have high resale value stock here in socal. Second off California state law states that the smog test is up to the seller. If he sold you the car without a smog he has to get it smogged for you. Take the car back !! Demand your money back, if balks threaten to call the cops. He is violating the law in several places . He lied about damage to the car that could be dangerous to you if its not fixed. If he sold you the car and said ya there is frame damage that would be one thing . don't be dumb about this . Stand up to his ****.
Many thanks for agreeing with me.
I'm telling you. Keeping this car will be one of the most costly, stupid decisions in your life. Also, it may also be the end of your life. Cars won't crumple twice. They will snap from overstressing the metal, or pick a new crumple zone. It's kinda the same deal with motorcycle helmets. Once you hit once, get a new helmet.
If you need help getting the car back, we can help. But be assertive and tell the guy what's up! Get your money back and get a new car.
-Jeff

[realracersuseapc]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
They will snap from overstressing the metal, or pick a new crumple zone.

how would i go about picking a new crumple zone? the body shop should know about this right? i might as well see what they have to say since its a free estimate.

[96SEChick]

Originally posted by realracersuseapc
how would i go about picking a new crumple zone? the body shop should know about this right? i might as well see what they have to say since its a free estimate.

That part you circled in green is the worst spot to crumple. It's not easily fixed, and if it is fixed, it will be very expensive, you car will still be more unsafe than if it was never hit there. That area in the green is one of the main structural and strength points on a car. If that is damaged, the car may as well be totalled. If you leave that part damaged, and you get hit again, there is a good chance you will be injured badly if it is a decent impact.

Take that car back to that focker!! He told you that a lady bumped into him and the damage was fixed--other than the dent on the door. He did lie to you. He also said that if it can't be registered, you can take the car back to him. Well, right now it CAN'T be registered, so he better stand behind his written letter--which is admissable in court. The amount of the car is $1200--that should still be able to be taken to small-claims court, which shouldn't be that expensive. The judge will most definitely decide in your favor if you give the car back to him, and he gives you your $$$$ + court fees.

DON'T KEEP THAT CAR!!! It is risking your safety with that damage!!! It will cost you MUCH more money than you realize. This guy is trying to screw you over!!

[Jeff240sx]

Guy. You don't pick the crumple zone. The car does. And like I said before, it will usually pick the driver/passenger area, like the seat or floorboard.
I'm not posting in this topic again. Get a new car.
-Jeff

[Dousan_PG]

take it back to the guy and get your money back
quit being a chicken baby and do it
dont waste your time w/ this car.


and for your comment about finding 240sx coupes are hard to find. NO THEY ARE NOT. i can find 10 in one day in so cali for sale. dont use taht as an excuse cuz it isnt true.

take the car back
you are obviously impatient and rush to get a 240sx but you'll only regret it. take it back and find another.

it makes me sad to see you are so scared to take it back because ahhhh "i dont want to have to do that"
dont be a baby, take it back!


signs of the weak:

. id really rather not go throught the trouble of returning it. its hard to find 240sx coupes and its just too much of a hassle

[realracersuseapc]

well the car is under my dads name right now, so if it goes to court then my dad would have to spend hours in court and he wouldnt do that. he didnt even wanna take a 1 hour drive to get this car. we also dont have a lawyer.

right now i dont drive it, mainly because of the problem with the injectors. once its fixed the most ill be driving it, is to work and to school. they are both around 15 min away and the fastest i go is around 30 or 40. i wouldnt drive on the freeway either. just to work and school and no mods. when im ready to mod a car, ill get a new good 1.

o yea and b4 some one goes off on how my parents pay for all my stuff, i had to work first. and when i had 600 i cut a deal with my dad that i give him the 600 and he lets me borrow around 1500.

[drift freaq]

ok dude I feel like I have to hit you over the head with a F ing baseball bat
. TAKE THE CAR BACK!!!!!!!!
He lied to you about the body damage the car is a total. In the state of california its illegal to sell a Salvage title vehicle without admitting its a Salvage title. I would be surprised if that car did not have a Salvage title.
Do you need me to come over there and hold your hand while you take the car back? Are you afraid this guy is gonna kick your ass? I could have found you a 89 coupe in that price range with a perfect body. I saw 10 today between autotrader and the another paper.
Do yourself a big favor your dad will have more respect for you if you do . iIt will show him your trying to be the man your supposed to become.

[drugie]

from what i see...
whats so hard about this???:confused:
just keep on buggin him
and basically one of u guys will give up on it
worth trying? isnt it?
and when peoples are telling u all this .
for once listen. why did u ask then?
just my opinion. so dont argue w/ it plz~

[realracersuseapc]

well actually i asked how bad the damage was. i didnt ask wether i should return the car or not. i never argued with it either. all i wanted to know is how bad the frame damage was. that was the whole point of my thread. i appreciate every1s concern and everything but ill be fine.

and drift freaq, y do u have to be such a dick about it? seriously, i mean this is my problem so if your not gonna help at all then y waste your time typing out a response?

[AceInHole]

omfg....
(oh my f***ing god)

and drift freaq, y do u have to be such a dick about it? seriously, i mean this is my problem so if your not gonna help at all then y waste your time typing out a response?

why do you have to be a dick about guys just trying to HELP YOU OUT. if you're keeping the car, please don't waste our time and STOP POSTING on zilvia. you should now know:
a: the car is dangerous
b: the car is worth a LOT less than you paid for it
c: you've been walked all over by the seller
d: you're going to end up paying a lot more on the car than you think

If you're all about living life on the edge and don't mind dying from a mild accident that a car with a good frame would protect you in, then drive the car.

If you like getting f***ed up the ass by the guy that sold you the car for a lot more than the car is worth, then drive the car.

If you're just too lazy to do anything about getting ripped off, then drive the car.

If you're not going to listen to the answers to your own question, please don't post in zilvia anymore. You asked how bad the damage was, everyone and their mother (except like 1 guy) said the damage was severe enough that the car is NOT worth owning. So yes, they DID answer your question. They also told you how to solve the problem to your question. If you're going to be a dick and get mad at us for telling you all that, then wtf did you ask for in the first place?

[realracersuseapc]

i never got mad at any1 for telling me about the frame damage. the only time i showed any kind of hostility was towards drift freaq in my last post because he was giving me sh*t and callin me a pussy for not taking it back. i even said that i was thankful for every ones concern. if you want to go back and read all my posts, most of them were asking questions so i could get a better idea of how bad the damage was.


"You asked how bad the damage was, everyone and their mother (except like 1 guy) said the damage was severe enough that the car is NOT worth owning. So yes, they DID answer your question. "

yea i know that they answered my question, but then i started askin other questions so i could get a better understanding y it was so bad.


its not like im comin here just to start sh*t, all i wanted to do is find out how bad my frame was and why.

[Jeff240sx]

Listen guy. Drift Freaq will hold your hand while you ask for your money back.
So... get rid of that car.
-Jeff

[ttaddiction55]

Hey man, before thinking about repairs try to get your money back. I don't want to sound like a dick but that's going to cost at least a G to repair IMO, with the money you already paid you could have had a 93 or so in very mint condition. Also noticed you're in Cali and 240's are supposed to be popular there so did you actually search for a car or picked the first one you saw? Nothing wrong with that if the car is good and you don't have a lot of time on your hands. Everybody makes mistakes and at least you won't repeat it again (I hope not).

Btw I made a similar mistake when buying my project car: never bothered to check the radiator support. :(



http://hstrial-ar2.homestead.com/files/SR_in.jpg

[realracersuseapc]

yea i learned alota lessons from this. well 240sxs should be pretty popular around here, but i can only look at cars that are an hour or less away, and with my budget, there arent that many. i was looking for about 4-5 months before i bought this car actually. so what are you goin to do about your radiator support? buy a new car or just fix it? just curious.

ive pretty much decided to keep the car, but not hook it up. its just gonna be transportation to school and work, til i got enough saved up for a better car. i wont be driving this car for long anyways.

its wierd, when you look at it from the passenger side it looks perfect, and back half of the driver side is good too. its just the left fender area.

[blaqsilvia]

umm.. RETURN CAR... YEA- before you regret it or actually if you actually get that chance after a car accident.. seriously- everyone here is trying to help you and I know it prolly sounds like a pain to go do this- but guess what- your just too lazy to make the effort- and trust me- when ur mechanic tells u that pull is from the frame and to get the frame pulled costs $1000 bucks or more- ur gonna be ****ed- especially when you wanna have that nice big mac burger in ur car runnin to work or school and be able to have your car drive straight down the freeway with your knee instead of having to hold onto the wheel with your hands so you don't get into any car accident's- IN which you prolly will get severly injured from or die from since the frame snapped in on you... YEA-that would BLOW - sooooo...

<B> RETURN CAR! </B>

my 0.02! ;) - GOOD LUCK BRO!! We're here for you..

[AceInHole]

well, in the end it's your call. personally, I think it's the lazy thing to do, but it isn't my car, so there's nothing I can do about it.

You could always get the car up on jackstands and check the main "frame" to see if it's still straight by measuring across from one side of the cross member to the other side of the rear subframe, then doing the opposite sides. If both distances match up in the "X" that you measure, then at least the damage is isolated to the fender area.

You could also get some other S13 owners to measure bolt to bolt between the strut towers, and the distance from the tower to the firewall, to see if your suspension is at least in good order. Try to get some pics of the undercarriage in the front of the car too... maybe we can determine if any of the suspension components are really damaged or out of place or what not.

In reality, I'd actually suggest at least one mod... strut tower bar, to try and help compensate for a possibly weak frame. Really, other bolt on mods like an intake wouldn't hurt.... not much you can really do suspension wise though, unless you want to risk stressing an already bent frame.

Good luck... I hope you don't end up regretting your decision.

[Nismos14]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
Listen guy. Drift Freaq will hold your hand while you ask for your money back.
So... get rid of that car.
-Jeff


uh i thought the other post was ur last post in this topic:confused: hahahaa just playin man

but seriously what kinda crack are u smokin dude, no matter how u drive 30 - 40 or slow or whatever, someone ELSE could always hit u, and if that happens, ur f'ed, would you rather be safe? or seriously injured? think hard and long about that one

[Jeff240sx]

Allright. He has answers, and the only things that will ensue are flames, so I'm locking this.
-Jeff