There goes the First Ammendment

[RJF]

DEMS GET SET TO MUZZLE THE RIGHT - New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/seven/10202008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/dems_get_set_to_muzzle_the_right_134399.htm)


SHOULD Barack Obama win the presidency and Democrats take full control of Congress, next year will see a real legislative attempt to bring back the Fairness Doctrine - and to diminish conservatives' influence on broadcast radio, the one medium they dominate.

Yes, the Obama campaign said some months back that the candidate doesn't seek to re-impose this regulation, which, until Ronald Reagan's FCC phased it out in the 1980s, required TV and radio broadcasters to give balanced airtime to opposing viewpoints or face steep fines or even loss of license. But most Democrats - including party elders Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry and Al Gore - strongly support the idea of mandating "fairness."

Would a President Obama veto a new Fairness Doctrine if Congress enacted one? It's doubtful.

The Fairness Doctrine was an astonishingly bad idea. It's a too-tempting power for government to abuse. When the doctrine was in effect, both Democratic and Republican administrations regularly used it to harass critics on radio and TV.

Second, a new Fairness Doctrine would drive political talk radio off the dial. If a station ran a big-audience conservative program like, say, Laura Ingraham's, it would also have to run a left-leaning alternative. But liberals don't do well on talk radio, as the failure of Air America and indeed all other liberal efforts in the medium to date show. Stations would likely trim back conservative shows so as to avoid airing unsuccessful liberal ones.

Then there's all the lawyers you'd have to hire to respond to the regulators measuring how much time you devoted to this topic or that. Too much risk and hassle, many radio executives would conclude. Why not switch formats to something less charged - like entertainment or sports coverage?

[murda-c]

so if i had a viewpoint that i wanted to say fuckshitassbitchcumpussygooch on the radio i'd get to say it?

but seriously wtf that sounds like a shitty idea.

The FCC is bigger than it should be as it is.

[vodka2]

i hope barack wins .. even if people dont like black people .. lets see what he can do .. it'll be history im amazed that he hasnt got sniped down yet .. if you go out n vote please vote for barack .. i wish i could.

[jrocslider]

why do you always post threads that are negative towards Barack Obama and the democratic party?

where are the negative republican threads at? we all know how smart and experienced Sarah Palin is

[ESmorz]

we all know how smart and experienced Sarah Palin is

Better watch what you say.

Or you'll end up

http://www.ontheissues.org/Abu_Ghraib.jpg

When she becomes President in 2012.

[az_240]

*starts chanting*

OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA!

[murda-c]

why do you always post threads that are negative towards Barack Obama and the democratic party?

where are the negative republican threads at? we all know how smart and experienced Sarah Palin is

because any idiot can see that stuff.

Has Obama said anything about his views on the fairness doctrine?

[shishcabobers]

sWS-FoXbjVI

[Icy13]

:bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl:^^

I salute the repost. (the Video, the thread topic otherwise is pretty much shit and not worth explaining)

[Matej]

Yes, less annoying backwards politics talk shows infesting the airwaves.

[Icy13]

zRqcfqiXCX0

and

T_NMZv6Vfh8
I like Colin Powell more than RJF :) Havent met either so I guess I could be wrong about both though...

[jrocslider]

shows how fucken ignorant people are. reminds me of the videos i've seen on the worthless klan.

its as if the republican party is perfect with nothing negative to post about them.

all the political threads that RJF has posted have been negative towards the democratic party but nothing at all about the republicans.

why is that?

[98s14inaz]

DEMS GET SET TO MUZZLE THE RIGHT - New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/seven/10202008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/dems_get_set_to_muzzle_the_right_134399.htm)


SHOULD Barack Obama win the presidency and Democrats take full control of Congress, next year will see a real legislative attempt to bring back the Fairness Doctrine - and to diminish conservatives' influence on broadcast radio, the one medium they dominate.

Yes, the Obama campaign said some months back that the candidate doesn't seek to re-impose this regulation, which, until Ronald Reagan's FCC phased it out in the 1980s, required TV and radio broadcasters to give balanced airtime to opposing viewpoints or face steep fines or even loss of license. But most Democrats - including party elders Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry and Al Gore - strongly support the idea of mandating "fairness."

Would a President Obama veto a new Fairness Doctrine if Congress enacted one? It's doubtful.

The Fairness Doctrine was an astonishingly bad idea. It's a too-tempting power for government to abuse. When the doctrine was in effect, both Democratic and Republican administrations regularly used it to harass critics on radio and TV.

Second, a new Fairness Doctrine would drive political talk radio off the dial. If a station ran a big-audience conservative program like, say, Laura Ingraham's, it would also have to run a left-leaning alternative. But liberals don't do well on talk radio, as the failure of Air America and indeed all other liberal efforts in the medium to date show. Stations would likely trim back conservative shows so as to avoid airing unsuccessful liberal ones.

Then there's all the lawyers you'd have to hire to respond to the regulators measuring how much time you devoted to this topic or that. Too much risk and hassle, many radio executives would conclude. Why not switch formats to something less charged - like entertainment or sports coverage?

I agree, I don't trust him or his party to not abuse that power. It has nothing to do with skin color. It has to do with his track record. That and Pelosi is a cunt. No party deserves that much power.

[98s14inaz]

shows how fucken ignorant people are. reminds me of the videos i've seen on the worthless klan.

its as if the republican party is perfect with nothing negative to post about them.

all the political threads that RJF has posted have been negative towards the democratic party but nothing at all about the republicans.

why is that?

He's an admin. Don't like it go post somewhere else.

[Sil-Eighty SE-K]

as long as i dont loose my 2nd amendment! :rl:

[RJF]

as long as i dont loose my 2nd amendment!

That'll be next.

Remember we're supposedly "bitter" and "cling to our guns and religion"

[spikNspan]

I hate all you republicans, yes ALL OF YOU!

[98s14inaz]

as long as i dont loose my 2nd amendment! :rl:

That's the thing, if you make one amendment "obsolete" or "invalid" you pretty much do that to the rest of them. Remember this quote while you enjoy your police state with in the next 10 years... "an unarmed citizen is a subject."

[Matej]

Screw the Constitution.
Yes I said it.
I can't believe people in 2008 want to live by a document written over 200 years ago, back when times were completely different and it was written to suit the needs of the people of that time.
The Constitution is obsolete and needs to be overhauled. Even though I definitely do not trust the current government to rewrite it.

[98s14inaz]

Screw the Constitution.
Yes I said it.
I can't believe people in 2008 want to live by a document written over 200 years ago, back when times were completely different and it was written to suit the needs of the people of that time.
The Constitution is obsolete and needs to be overhauled.

You should check the track record of countries that don't have a constitution like ours if you think it is so good some place else. England and Australia come to mind. You think it sucks here, move to one of those two.

[Matej]

You should check the track record of countries that don't have a constitution like ours if you think it is so good some place else. England and Australia come to mind. You think it sucks here, move to one of those two.
Have you ever lived in either one, for an extended period of time? Tell me what's so terrible about living there.
But that's off the subject, I'm not saying any country has the perfect government.
I'm just tired of people constantly calling on the amendments, that are irrelevant by this century. The Constitution was a masterpiece of its time, but now it's 2008. The king of Britain isn't trying to house soldiers in your homes.

[98s14inaz]

Have you ever lived in either one, for an extended period of time?

I have several relatives and friends who have. I know better than to move there. Read some books about them, socialism sucks.

[Matej]

Read some books about them, socialism sucks.
The US government is currently buying up banks. I could call that socialism, because if that doesn't reek of socialism, I don't know what does. However, that just goes back to the problem of trying to classify everything as black or white. I believe some government involvement in certain things can be a good thing, such as health care for example, it's just a matter of finding a balance that works, something that years from now doesn't result in another catastrophic failure like today's economic situation.

[98s14inaz]

The US government is currently buying up banks. I could call that socialism, because if that doesn't reek of socialism, I don't know what does. However, that just goes back to the problem of trying to classify everything as black or white. I believe some government involvement in certain things is can be a good thing, it's just a matter of finding a good balance, that in the future doesn't result in another complete failure like today's economy situation.

You're agreeing with what I am saying. I see where we are going with this whole shift. It IS socialism, and it isn't a good thing. Those banks should be allowed to fail and should be absorbed by the stronger banks. That is the American way, some win, some lose, but you're free do it....not this everybody wins bullshit.

[JeremyR]

Remember we're supposedly "bitter" and "cling to our guns and religion"


every been to hicksville nowhere in the bible belt?? THATS ALL THEY DO

"real men love jesus" bumper sticker right next to the gun rack in the back of the truck.

stores all closed on sundays.
gun shops on every street.

HAH.

and i LOVE the fact republicans always bring up terrorists or terror as a way to scare people. and i love the fact they always refer to the news as "the liberal media" when rupert murdoch, ceo of news corp. AND A REPUBLICAN owns most of the worlds media outlets.
News Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corporation#Holdings)

there's a list of everything he controls. how ignorant do you have to be to not see that the repubs control most media in the united states. rupert murdoch, an australian, runs the media and our country. he can put whatever the hell he wants on the news, and most of the retards in this country would believe it! they do anyway. american politics are corrupted, dems and repubs. believe me, if i ahd the money and a job in a different country i would move in a heartbeat. canada, england, australia, wherever. people need to stop acting like america is the best country in the world and that capitalisim is so great. its capitalisim and closeminded thinking that got america so fucked up in the first place.

[Matej]

That is the American way, some win, some lose, but you're free do it....not this everybody wins bullshit.
Obviously it isn't the American way, as even America turns to extreme socialist practices when times get tough.
Let me make it clear that I do not agree with the government buying up banks.
However, as I've already stated, I would be all up for paying higher taxes and having a government funded "free" health care system. That goes back to having a working balance of government involvement in certain areas, where it would actually be beneficial to the people. Socialism and having a smart government involvement are two different things.

[BustedS13]

so fox might actually be fair and balanced instead of a 24/7 smear campaign? oh no

[Icy13]

unless they are advocating government ownership akin to the soviet union, it aint socialism people. Socialism is what china, the USSR and north vietnam HAD, yes HAD. There is no country in the world that is socialist in the sense that keeps being mentioned. Even Hugo Chavez isnt really a socialist (what he is is unclear, but we will see after the oil wealth drys up...)

what you meant to say is social democratic and england, second only to ireland, is probably the worst example in the world. Fuck our anglocentrism. England does not represent europe by both their own and european admission.

if you had family members live there, were they citizens? did they have jobs? what sort? more important why did it suck? I am pretty sure is someone came to this country from europe and lived the way we treat most latin american immigrants they wouldnt have kind things to say about us. We probably shouldnt have kind things to say about us either.

My point is that you really need to be born and grow up in a regime to understand it or invest serious effort in attempting to understand it. Going there on business or as a troop deployment certainly will not give you an acurate representation of the situation (because you arent living like a normal citizen, Parts of life are closed to you. If you think this is wrong, try to vote in england :) )

oh, and because it is fun: sWS-FoXbjVI

[SexPanda]

I personally hate the FCC. If I could, I would take the FCC, put it on a ship, and send it back to europe where it belongs.

If you dont like whats on tv, change the station
if you dont like what on the radio, turn it off
if you dont like whats in the news paper, put it down.

All of these politically correct people and their bullshit ideas of what I need to hear and see, I hate it. If I want to watch 2 asian hookers go down on a midget in a bikini, I don't want the government saying I cant.

Basically, in the words of so many,

FUCK THE FCC

[RJF]

people need to stop acting like america is the best country in the world and that capitalisim is so great. its capitalisim and closeminded thinking that got america so fucked up in the first place.

OK, name a better country.

And if we are so [email protected]^&d up, why does everyone in the world want to come here?

[Matej]

OK, name a better country.

And if we are so [email protected]^&d up, why does everyone in the world want to come here?
Show me a country where educated people still want to come to America.

This isn't the 1940s.

[JeremyR]

better country is an opinion, there is no definate better country, never will be.

personally i feel canada is a way better country.
universial health car, very low crime and homicide rate. when have you ever seen canada go to war with a country or have a terrorist attack?? hmm?

you act like everyone wants to come to america and no where else. there are people who immigrate to other countries as well. im sorry all of our media is biased towards making people "blind patriots" yeah lets all just believe everything we hear on the news and our leaders tell us. no one ever lies. ever. EVER. its honestly not worth my time or effort to argue with you over politics. i come to zilvia to get away from all political hype not see more of it. people need to get lives.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6K5M0xtxQVQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6K5M0xtxQVQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[98s14inaz]

Obviously it isn't the American way, as even America turns to extreme socialist practices when times get tough.
Let me make it clear that I do not agree with the government buying up banks.
However, as I've already stated, I would be all up for paying higher taxes and having a government funded "free" health care system. That goes back to having a working balance of government involvement in certain areas, where it would actually be beneficial to the people. Socialism and having a smart government involvement are two different things.

I should have said "was". You're right.

[98s14inaz]

every been to hicksville nowhere in the bible belt?? THATS ALL THEY DO

"real men love jesus" bumper sticker right next to the gun rack in the back of the truck.

stores all closed on sundays.
gun shops on every street.

HAH.

and i LOVE the fact republicans always bring up terrorists or terror as a way to scare people. and i love the fact they always refer to the news as "the liberal media" when rupert murdoch, ceo of news corp. AND A REPUBLICAN owns most of the worlds media outlets.
News Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corporation#Holdings)

there's a list of everything he controls. how ignorant do you have to be to not see that the repubs control most media in the united states. rupert murdoch, an australian, runs the media and our country. he can put whatever the hell he wants on the news, and most of the retards in this country would believe it! they do anyway. american politics are corrupted, dems and repubs. believe me, if i ahd the money and a job in a different country i would move in a heartbeat. canada, england, australia, wherever. people need to stop acting like america is the best country in the world and that capitalisim is so great. its capitalisim and closeminded thinking that got america so fucked up in the first place.

That is an exaggeration. I've lived in Tennessee and Alabama and it isn't that bad. Yes they are hicks but those people are the backbone of our country. Good people. A few douchbags don't represent an entire population. It's like me saying all minorities steal cars.

[40daws]

Barack is also going to require all forums posters with negative posts about him to advertise thier penis size on the back of there jeans. Tight jeans. Male camel toe tight. And muscle shirts. And carry a little McCain and Palin doll,along with a fanny pack. This is only is he wins. He is. So be ready.

[40daws]

Poor white trash manager: I'm afraid if Obama wins,someone will kill him and then that will start a race war.
Janitor: You ever notice when someone talks about about a race war,they are always white ?
PWTM: Uhhhh...?
Janitor: White people say they are not scared,or fear a certain race of folks,but whats with all the race war talk ?
PWTM: Blarggg..arrgg...Mhh..I'll be in my office.

[SexPanda]

lol this thread is win...

You know what will happen if barack becomes president?
Not shit
You know what will happen if McCain becomes president?
Not shit.

It's all the same smoke and mirrors. Im voting for McCain simply because Obama is far too liberal, but it really doesnt matter.

[cc4usmc]

OK, name a better country.

And if we are so [email protected]^&d up, why does everyone in the world want to come here?

I hate posts like this. You're pretty much saying as long as we're better then the rest, it's ok. This country might be an improvement for others, but what about us?

[KA24DESOneThree]

Screw the Constitution.
Yes I said it.
I can't believe people in 2008 want to live by a document written over 200 years ago, back when times were completely different and it was written to suit the needs of the people of that time.
The Constitution is obsolete and needs to be overhauled. Even though I definitely do not trust the current government to rewrite it.

People like you disgust me. Don't try to change my country because you don't like it. The Founders set rules and, if we had lived by them, people would be better off now. We broke them and here we are. We don't change them except by very strict guidelines, which were abused... and here we are.

You want universal health care? Go to Canada or France or Germany. It isn't in the Constitution, and health care back then consisted of a rag soaked in brandy, bed rest, and some luck. You're blessed to have this much access to medical necessities.

America was founded on self-reliance. You may want handouts, high taxes, and increased regulation, but you want another country, not mine. The American Dream pays off, but not if you're a lazy idiot. You need to work, you need to fail, you need to pick yourself up and rise above to live the dream. If you think it's unfair, life's unfair.

Neoliberalism makes me sick. Every cent I donate to political causes will go toward causes to reverse the spread of the cancer and bring down the bloat.

[svensko]

lol this thread is win...

You know what will happen if barack becomes president?
Not shit
You know what will happen if McCain becomes president?
Not shit.

It's all the same smoke and mirrors. Im voting for McCain simply because Obama is far too liberal, but it really doesnt matter.

I'm voting for Obama simply because McCain/Palin are far too conservative. :keke:

[iwishiwas-all*]

gabe calls it now it will never happen .

[TheWolf]

This is about USA being #1. The second place plaque is in the ladies room.

OMG canada being #1... HAHAHA at what? being a big pussy nation. Free healthcare in exchange for tarrifs, taxes, and shitty weather. What a deal! Why don't you move from cali to canada and live there instead. Everything you buy from the US up there costs $8 + 12-15% in Tax just to get it shipped across the border. Throw duty on top if it wasn't made in america.

[RJF]

You want universal health care? Go to Canada or France or Germany.

Universal health care. You don't even have to go to Canada or Europe. It doesn't even work here.

Hawaii had enacted "universal coverage" for children through HMSA and that program was cancelled after just 11 months and coverage for 2000 kids.

Crisis in Hawaii Healthcare (http://www.emaxhealth.com/1002/24/25567/crisis-hawaii-healthcare.html)

[murda-c]

So i need to unite the planet so we can stop spending all our resources on war and start spending them on healthcare and galactic colonization?

I'll get right on it.

[Phlip]

You know guys, now that you mention it...
I think I dislike the idea of a liberal president, especially a black one.
I am voting for a Maverick who has mastered the fine arts of hypocrisy and throwing rock and hiding his hands, but puts country first and hoping that his fuckton of horrible ideas actually work somehow.

[RJF]

What's their definition of "rich"?


u1Mazjm_A5k

[WanganRunner]

The right needs to stop being so alarmed at this prospect.

This will ONLY happen if the Democrats attain a super-majority, i.e. 60 seats in the Senate. This is HIGHLY unlikely, so stop stressing out about it.

All that will happen is a house majority, a Dem President, and a Senate majority that is NOT filibuster-proof (i.e. precisely what the GOP had awhile back).

It won't be anything earth-shattering.



That article, however, totally ignores the most profound thing the Dems could do with a super-majority if they ever got one. They could eliminate the electoral college and run Presidential elections on a straight popular vote.

A popular vote would mean that the GOP would never get another President elected EVER AGAIN, barring huge shifts in how population is distributed in the United States. Right now, it's not in the Dems interest to spend time and money extracting maximum turnout from hugely populated areas in safe blue states, they're more motivated to go after a few swing voters in rural Ohio. With a popular vote they could ignore the Rust Belt swing voters and ramp up their turnout on the coasts. The GOP already has very near max turnout, but the Dems have a huge potential to tap more. Given how the population is distributed in this country (i.e. heavy on the coasts), the GOP would never, ever, ever, ever win a Presidential election EVER again.

But a super-majority won't happen, so don't sweat it.



EDIT: As of the most recent census, the total "Blue State" (04 election) population is 167.9 million people while the total "Red State" population is only 125.2 million. Now, of course, there are Democrats in red states and Republicans in blue states, but the way it is right now, the percentage of population that actually votes is still pretty low. If the Republicans maxed turnout in their lower-populated states and the Dems maxed turnout in their much higher-populated states, well.....you get the idea. It would be permanent Democratic rule forever.

[RJF]

But a super-majority won't happen, so don't sweat it.


You so sure? It doesn't look that way right now.

[Gnnr]

Vote McCain. He'll probably Die 6 months into office anyway, then the country will be really f'd up. You betcha! :rolleyes:

I don't understand how people can be so blindly for one party. How can you possibly agree with every single one of a parties political positions on various matters? That seems almost impossible to me...

[WanganRunner]

You so sure? It doesn't look that way right now.

By what metric?

At the moment, there's something like a 20% chance that the Dems will nab 60 Senate seats, but that is trailing the national Presidential polls by a couple days.

As the Presidential race tightens, so too will those of down-ballot candidates. 20% is as good as it'll ever get, I don't expect the chance to be higher than 10% by election day.

You're worrying about nothing.

Hell, I support Obama enthusiastically but even I will admit that a super-majority of EITHER party would be downright terrifying for all Americans.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Here's how I see it:

This presidency will make or break it. There are hundreds of thousands of us who are already chomping at the bit to force change but don't know how to get the rest of the public on our side.

Whomever gets elected will either be moderate or be overthrown. I will not be at the forefront of this movement, but I will be walking in lockstep with whoever is, rifle across my back and pistol on my hip, for they are the defenders of my liberty and the expression of my self-reliance.

We have already endured great hardship at the hands of our own government, and it continues to probe us to see how far our "commitment" goes. The next president, McCain or Obama, will force the issue and will get the answer he was not expecting.

Neoliberalism and neoconservatism alike will be crushed under the heel of liberty. The government will be forced to scale back, to retreat under the rock from whence it came.

[ESmorz]

Here's how I see it:

This presidency will make or break it. There are hundreds of thousands of us who are already chomping at the bit to force change but don't know how to get the rest of the public on our side.

Whomever gets elected will either be moderate or be overthrown. I will not be at the forefront of this movement, but I will be walking in lockstep with whoever is, rifle across my back and pistol on my hip, for they are the defenders of my liberty and the expression of my self-reliance.

We have already endured great hardship at the hands of our own government, and it continues to probe us to see how far our "commitment" goes. The next president, McCain or Obama, will force the issue and will get the answer he was not expecting.

Neoliberalism and neoconservatism alike will be crushed under the heel of liberty. The government will be forced to scale back, to retreat under the rock from whence it came.

That's all well and dandy, but I can assure you right here and now that ANY uprising will be smashed and the perpetrators made out to be terrorists.

Your rifle across your back, and pistol on your hip won't mean shit when you're getting microwaved.

[shade]

You mean give even more welfare to fuckin bums in this country so they can keep leeching on the money that hard working people worked for? Fuck that, work hard for something or get the fuck out. Pussy ass liberals..

So i need to unite the planet so we can stop spending all our resources on war and start spending them on healthcare and galactic colonization?

I'll get right on it.

[WanganRunner]

You mean give even more welfare to fuckin bums in this country so they can keep leeching on the money that hard working people worked for? Fuck that, work hard for something or get the fuck out. Pussy ass liberals..

I'm not any more for welfare as a handout than you probably are, but telling ANY sizable contingent of the population to "GTFO" doesn't work, even if it's what is fair.

A market-based meritocracy economy is indeed very fair, but it does have shortcomings when applied to reality. A meritocracy (i.e. hands-off free-market economy) produces winners and losers, and we'd all like to tell ourselves that the winner should win, the losers should lose, and everyone should fend for themselves.

Unfortunately that won't really work. The American gene-pool produces born winners, born losers, and then people who could go either way (the latter being the vast majority). What do we do with the born losers, the people who are just not equipped to ever "win" in a winner-take-all economy? This is a decent-sized chunk of society, and you can't have a big chunk of society being consistently marginalized and unhappy unless you want to have crime skyrocket, have economic issues (see: current housing crisis), or potentially breed a revolution (violent or political).

So what do you do with these people? You can't very well kill or deport them, and you also can't expect them to somehow leave on their own. No, unfortunately it is the responsibility of the "winners" to take care of the "losers" to a certain extent, if for no reason other than self-preservation via keeping the nation stable. The assistance doesn't necessarily need to be in the form of a straight-up government handout, but there DO need to be safety nets of some kind.

It isn't exactly fair, and it definitely doesn't fit into the ideological purity demanded by today's GOP, but that doesn't make it not true. Consider it a cost of doing business.

Creating permanent underclasses is a nasty business, as numerous societies throughout history have learned.

[Gnnr]

I'm not any more for welfare as a handout than you probably are, but telling ANY sizable contingent of the population to "GTFO" doesn't work, even if it's what is fair.

A market-based meritocracy economy is indeed very fair, but it does have shortcomings when applied to reality. A meritocracy (i.e. hands-off free-market economy) produces winners and losers, and we'd all like to tell ourselves that the winner should win, the losers should lose, and everyone should fend for themselves.

Unfortunately that won't really work. The American gene-pool produces born winners, born losers, and then people who could go either way (the latter being the vast majority). What do we do with the born losers, the people who are just not equipped to ever "win" in a winner-take-all economy? This is a decent-sized chunk of society, and you can't have a big chunk of society being consistently marginalized and unhappy unless you want to have crime skyrocket, have economic issues (see: current housing crisis), or potentially breed a revolution (violent or political).

So what do you do with these people? You can't very well kill or deport them, and you also can't expect them to somehow leave on their own. No, unfortunately it is the responsibility of the "winners" to take care of the "losers" to a certain extent, if for no reason other than self-preservation via keeping the nation stable. The assistance doesn't necessarily need to be in the form of a straight-up government handout, but there DO need to be safety nets of some kind.

It isn't exactly fair, and it definitely doesn't fit into the ideological purity demanded by today's GOP, but that doesn't make it not true. Consider it a cost of doing business.

Creating permanent underclasses is a nasty business, as numerous societies throughout history have learned.

Word. Once you get into higher level politics you start to see that social darwinism doesn't work out. This country learned many times, sometimes brutally, that it can't function without those at the bottom of the pyramid.

[RJF]

Another Democrat that wants to stifle free speech.

veF2KNlHW6w

[WanganRunner]

Word. Once you get into higher level politics you start to see that social darwinism doesn't work out. This country learned many times, sometimes brutally, that it can't function without those at the bottom of the pyramid.


Yep.

It's comforting to think that we can apply the "rules of the playground" to running the country and decide everything based on what's fair, but unfortunately that doesn't always sync with reality.

It doesn't work at a macro level. Huge groups of people exert certain influence and can exact certain consequences just by virtue of being a huge group, whether it's fair or not. You can either deal with it and secure your own position or ignore it at your own peril.

[imotion s14]

as long as i dont loose my 2nd amendment! :rl:

You know that's next.

[ranger240]

why do you always post threads that are negative towards Barack Obama and the democratic party?

where are the negative republican threads at? we all know how smart and experienced Sarah Palin is

wow your post indirectly supports the fairness doctrine and you didnt even notice that

[imotion s14]

What's their definition of "rich"?


u1Mazjm_A5k

put the fear of the deficit behind us?

Who the fuck keeps electing this moron? Oh right.. the educated elite of blue state Massachusetts.

[RJF]

More taxes...less free speech and now they want to take our 401(k)'s

Socialism here we come.

This has to be the scariest thing I've read yet about a possible all-Democrat government: the end of 401(k) investing.

Powerful House Democrats are considering removing all existing 401(k) tax breaks -- goodbye, matching employer contributions! -- and forcing Americans to contribute to a second level of Social Security instead. (Bet you haven't heard about this one from the "Elect Obama" mainstream media...)

Details from Ed Morrissey at Hot Air:

"...your employer can no longer write off their contributions to your 401(k), and your capital gains would be taxable year-on-year. In other words, it becomes just another investment or savings account, with no tax benefit at all, and no employer contribution. Instead, Uncle Sam would give you your 'matching' funds — up to a whopping $600 per year! Whoopee!

"As Michelle Obama says, you could buy a pair of earrings every year … except, of course, you can’t. It’s in The Lockbox, defined by politicians as Locked Away from You but Accessible to Us. It goes there along with 5% of your gross earnings, apparently to play with the 7% of your gross earnings that already goes to Social Security. And what do they do with the money? They give you government bonds as your only investment option."

More:

"The Democrats want to end the private retirement system that has allowed Americans to become a vast investor class and put them back in thrall of the federal government. This is nothing more than a second welfare system that would sit on top of the crumbling Social Security entitlement. It would leave the American working and middle classes with no retirement option other than a government handout.

"If the Democrats control both Congress and the White House, kiss your 401(k)s goodbye, and get into the bread lines first before the crowd arrives."

Senator McCain needs to be hitting this issue hard in ads, starting immediately. A Republican Presidential veto pen is the only thing which can stop this plan from taking place.

Unfortunately, given the current state of the market and everyone's 401(k) plans, the issue may not have the same resonance it would normally have, but voters should also be reminded that historically market dips have always been temporary...always.

Like a lot of Americans, our 401(k), and the generous matching contributions by my husband's employer, provides much of our financial security. If Democrats take that away and instead tax us more for "a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute," it would be devastating, not only for American workers everywhere, but for the American economy.

http://laurasmiscmusings.blogspot.com/2008/10/democrats-to-kill-401k-accounts.html

[Gnnr]

Socialism? Naaahhhhh. If only we where so lucky. Last I checked we where more like a "hybrid capitalism", where the govt gets the power and corporations get to enjoy the profits of capitalism and we get to enjoy the cons of socialism. :Ownedd:

[ZenkiCam]

01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101110 01101111 00100000 01101000 01101111 01110000 01100101 00100000 01101100 01100101 01100110 01110100 00001101 00001010

[98s14inaz]

More taxes...less free speech and now they want to take our 401(k)'s

Socialism here we come.

This has to be the scariest thing I've read yet about a possible all-Democrat government: the end of 401(k) investing.

Powerful House Democrats are considering removing all existing 401(k) tax breaks -- goodbye, matching employer contributions! -- and forcing Americans to contribute to a second level of Social Security instead. (Bet you haven't heard about this one from the "Elect Obama" mainstream media...)

Details from Ed Morrissey at Hot Air:

"...your employer can no longer write off their contributions to your 401(k), and your capital gains would be taxable year-on-year. In other words, it becomes just another investment or savings account, with no tax benefit at all, and no employer contribution. Instead, Uncle Sam would give you your 'matching' funds — up to a whopping $600 per year! Whoopee!

"As Michelle Obama says, you could buy a pair of earrings every year … except, of course, you can’t. It’s in The Lockbox, defined by politicians as Locked Away from You but Accessible to Us. It goes there along with 5% of your gross earnings, apparently to play with the 7% of your gross earnings that already goes to Social Security. And what do they do with the money? They give you government bonds as your only investment option."

More:

"The Democrats want to end the private retirement system that has allowed Americans to become a vast investor class and put them back in thrall of the federal government. This is nothing more than a second welfare system that would sit on top of the crumbling Social Security entitlement. It would leave the American working and middle classes with no retirement option other than a government handout.

"If the Democrats control both Congress and the White House, kiss your 401(k)s goodbye, and get into the bread lines first before the crowd arrives."

Senator McCain needs to be hitting this issue hard in ads, starting immediately. A Republican Presidential veto pen is the only thing which can stop this plan from taking place.

Unfortunately, given the current state of the market and everyone's 401(k) plans, the issue may not have the same resonance it would normally have, but voters should also be reminded that historically market dips have always been temporary...always.

Like a lot of Americans, our 401(k), and the generous matching contributions by my husband's employer, provides much of our financial security. If Democrats take that away and instead tax us more for "a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute," it would be devastating, not only for American workers everywhere, but for the American economy.

Laura's Miscellaneous Musings: Democrats to Kill 401(k) Accounts?! (http://laurasmiscmusings.blogspot.com/2008/10/democrats-to-kill-401k-accounts.html)

I didn't know about some of that, scary stuff.

[KwKouki]

im not really into politics, but I just think its funny how people bash each other because they "must" stick to a side. the whole "I agree with everything my democratic party campaigns" I find rediculous.

I also love how republicans can sit there and say "zomg democrats are gonna ruin the country" when we have a republican president now doing an outstangingly spectacular job himself.

Bill clinton seemed to do a pretty damn good job running this bitch.

[KA24DESOneThree]

im not really into politics, but I just think its funny how people bash each other because they "must" stick to a side. the whole "I agree with everything my democratic party campaigns" I find rediculous.

I also love how republicans can sit there and say "zomg democrats are gonna ruin the country" when we have a republican president now doing an outstangingly spectacular job himself.

Bill clinton seemed to do a pretty damn good job running this bitch.

The current neoliberal leaning of the Democratic party is hugely unnerving, but the current neoconservative leaning of the Republican party is nearly equally unnerving. Everyone wants progressive change when what we need is regressive change to solve our problems. Ignoring the founding principles will not create a stronger, better country, it will lead to a revolution and a deeply divided country, politically, economically, and culturally.

Bill Clinton started out pretty far left but had to go centrist to continue and get a second term. Obama *may* go centrist after a couple years, but the current Democratic majority in the legislative branch creates a very dangerous situation. It's another case of tyranny of the majority and we all should know that this tyranny is exceedingly dangerous to liberty.

[RJF]

Bill clinton seemed to do a pretty damn good job running this bitch.

But Bill Clinton was a moderate democrat. Obama is a socialist.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________


I like the last line of the second paragraph: " system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute "

We already have one of those, its called Social Security, and we are obliged to contribute since they take the money out of our paycheck.

This is going to get ugly.



House Democrats Contemplate Abolishing 401(k) Tax Breaks Powerful House Democrats are eyeing proposals to overhaul the nation’s $3 trillion 401(k) system, including the elimination of most of the $80 billion in annual tax breaks that 401(k) investors receive.

House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller, D-California, and Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Washington, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee’s Subcommittee on Income Security and Family Support, are looking at redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute.

A plan by Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic-policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, contains elements that are being considered. She testified last week before Miller’s Education and Labor Committee on her proposal.

At that hearing, the director of the Congressional Budget Office, Peter Orszag, testified that some $2 trillion in retirement savings has been lost over the past 15 months.

Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3 percent a year, adjusted for inflation.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________

Finally, someone with the guts to ask real questions.

X346U109Chs

In response to this interview, the Obama-Biden have cancelled any further interviews with this channel.

Socialists don't like to be questioned. I guess Dear Leader was not pleased.


UPDATE: In typical Obama campaign fashion, WFTV has been blacklisted by Obama’s campaign. The Orlando Sentinel is reporting:
“Biden so disliked West’s line of questioning that the Obama campaign canceled a WFTV interview with Jill Biden, the candidate’s wife.
‘This cancellation is non-negotiable, and further opportunities for your station to interview with this campaign are unlikely, at best for the duration of the remaining days until the election,’ wrote Laura K. McGinnis, Central Florida communications director for the Obama campaign.

McGinnis said the Biden cancellation was ‘a result of her husband’s experience yesterday during the satellite interview with Barbara West.’” [emphasis added]

Not only did they cut off access to the Obama campaign until the election — which one might understand them doing — but they openly say that the blacklisting could continue beyond November 4th.

Why are there no howls of protest from other members of the media?

Why has the media abandoned its responsibility as the challenger of those in power?

This country needs more newspeople with the courage of WFTV news director Bob Jordan and reporter Barbara West. The Sentinel article continues:
“WFTV news director Bob Jordan said, ‘When you get a shot to ask these candidates, you want to make the most of it. They usually give you five minutes.’
Jordan said political campaigns in general pick and choose the stations they like. And stations often pose softball questions during the satellite interviews.

‘Mr. Biden didn’t like the questions,’ Jordan said. ‘We choose not to ask softball questions.’”

[HalveBlue]

Whatever...I live in a socialist country.

It's not that bad.

[mondojackal]

better country is an opinion, there is no definate better country, never will be.

personally i feel canada is a way better country.
universial health car, very low crime and homicide rate. when have you ever seen canada go to war with a country or have a terrorist attack?? hmm?
universal healthcare is a total farce. it doesnt work. people from canada leave their own country for medical treatment. LEAVE THE COUNTRY because they have to be put on waiting lists to see the doctor. so what do they do? they come to the US. imagine that.

canada doesnt go to war because no one wants to fight canada. what are they going to fight canada for? geese? caribou? tundra?

for real, though. canada is a country that just ducks and covers. it doesnt make a big show, and it really doesnt piss anyone off, so why would any other country take an interest in canada. especially terrorists, since anything to do with canada is influential to all of .01% of the world's population. :rolleyes:

People like you disgust me. Don't try to change my country because you don't like it. The Founders set rules and, if we had lived by them, people would be better off now. We broke them and here we are. We don't change them except by very strict guidelines, which were abused... and here we are.

You want universal health care? Go to Canada or France or Germany. It isn't in the Constitution, and health care back then consisted of a rag soaked in brandy, bed rest, and some luck. You're blessed to have this much access to medical necessities.

America was founded on self-reliance. You may want handouts, high taxes, and increased regulation, but you want another country, not mine. The American Dream pays off, but not if you're a lazy idiot. You need to work, you need to fail, you need to pick yourself up and rise above to live the dream. If you think it's unfair, life's unfair.

Neoliberalism makes me sick. Every cent I donate to political causes will go toward causes to reverse the spread of the cancer and bring down the bloat.i like this guy. and he would surely be getting rep from me if the system were still intact.

i totally agree. life's not fair. get over it. if you want to be a lazy bum and get handouts, then go somewhere else. the people that originally made this country great weren't afraid to get their hands dirty, and weren't afraid to shoulder a heavy burden. we're raising such pansies in this country that it's getting embarrassing. we're americans, and we should be proud of that.

sure, people think we're bullies, but no one really likes the kid at the top of the hill, right?

I'm voting for Obama simply because McCain/Palin are far too conservative. :keke:funny, since they're really not that conservative. they are more moderate than Obama/Biden.

This is about USA being #1. The second place plaque is in the ladies room.

OMG canada being #1... HAHAHA at what? being a big pussy nation. Free healthcare in exchange for tarrifs, taxes, and shitty weather. What a deal! Why don't you move from cali to canada and live there instead. Everything you buy from the US up there costs $8 + 12-15% in Tax just to get it shipped across the border. Throw duty on top if it wasn't made in america.exactly. canada isnt a truly bad country, and it doesnt deserve most of the criticism that we throw at it, but it's certainly not that great, either.

You know guys, now that you mention it...
I think I dislike the idea of a liberal president, especially a black one.
I am voting for a Maverick who has mastered the fine arts of hypocrisy and throwing rock and hiding his hands, but puts country first and hoping that his fuckton of horrible ideas actually work somehow.:bowrofl:

agreed, though. i'm not a staunch republican, but i feel that i'm voting for "the lesser of two evils" here. i'm politically moderate, and i just vote for who i think will be an actually better president. who will better represent the country to other heads of state, who will run the military better, and who will do a better job as chief executive.

Here's how I see it:

This presidency will make or break it. There are hundreds of thousands of us who are already chomping at the bit to force change but don't know how to get the rest of the public on our side.

Whomever gets elected will either be moderate or be overthrown. I will not be at the forefront of this movement, but I will be walking in lockstep with whoever is, rifle across my back and pistol on my hip, for they are the defenders of my liberty and the expression of my self-reliance.

We have already endured great hardship at the hands of our own government, and it continues to probe us to see how far our "commitment" goes. The next president, McCain or Obama, will force the issue and will get the answer he was not expecting.

Neoliberalism and neoconservatism alike will be crushed under the heel of liberty. The government will be forced to scale back, to retreat under the rock from whence it came. idk about all that just yet, but i'm right there with you on people not taking me guns away and the like. i'm not a hardcore person by any means, but i like my life the way it is, and i will be damned if i let a government office tell me how i will live my life. sure, the current government regulates it in many ways, but i feel that the amount that they regulate is fair, and just, and works for the betterment of society as a whole. sure, there are plenty of government "interventions" that i dont agree with, but they are there for a reason.

You mean give even more welfare to fuckin bums in this country so they can keep leeching on the money that hard working people worked for? Fuck that, work hard for something or get the fuck out. Pussy ass liberals..agreed. not so harshly against liberals, but i work hard for my money, and i dont like that someone can take my money, and then re-distribute it in a way that doesnt benefit me at all. i want my money to be spent on better schools, better roads, and better pharmaceuticals. sure, help out the indigent population, but do so in a manner that makes sense for how much those people will contribute back into society. dont just throw money away to people who aren't going to take advantage of it. hell, if you're just handing out money, give it to college students. Lord knows we could use some more cash, and that's actually an investment.

Whatever...I live in a socialist country.

It's not that bad.ever lived in the United States?

if you haven't, then you've got nothing to compare it to.

[HalveBlue]

ever lived in the United States?

if you haven't, then you've got nothing to compare it to.

Yes. I even served in her armed forces.

America is a great country. It's beautiful.

That doesn't' mean that it doesn't have its faults though.

...or that every other country in the world is somehow inferior.

Different, certainly. Inferior, that's a pretty subjective assessment.

[Phlip]

This post was a joke:

You know guys, now that you mention it...
I think I dislike the idea of a liberal president, especially a black one.
I am voting for a Maverick who has mastered the fine arts of hypocrisy and throwing rock and hiding his hands, but puts country first and hoping that his fuckton of horrible ideas actually work somehow.


:bowrofl:

agreed, though. i'm not a staunch republican, but i feel that i'm voting for "the lesser of two evils" here. i'm politically moderate, and i just vote for who i think will be an actually better president. who will better represent the country to other heads of state, who will run the military better, and who will do a better job as chief executive.

I am voting for Barack Obama...
My above post that you quoted was a joke born of me wanting this shit to be over and fucking done with, I am sick and tired of this nonsense arguing and bickering.
Fact remains is that I am not convinced that McCain will be a good president. What worries me more is that he doesn't have much time on his clock and Sarah Palin worries me even more.

[spngr311]

The current neoliberal leaning of the Democratic party is hugely unnerving, but the current neoconservative leaning of the Republican party is nearly equally unnerving.

That is the truth there!

I find it funny that so many democrats are so hateful to McCain right now, a man who is considered too liberal for hardcore republicans and still has issues with the "conservative right". McCain lost to Bush in the primaries in 2000 because he was too middle of the road. There was even talk of McCain picking Joe Lieberman for his VP, a close friend of his! I would have loved that. McCain really is a moderate republican.

By the way, I have a bit of off topic irony for Obama supporters. For the last three years, Obama has said he wants to take money from NASA, an organization that inspires young people to study math and science, employs many engineers and technicians, and has a very small budget, to fund math and science initiatives. He essentially wants to punish those people that studied hard in school, became engineers and work for NASA and its subcontractors (like me and many of my friends and colleagues). Now I know he has changed his official stance since coming to Florida, but why would someone change their personal view permanently when they have held it for so long?

[KwKouki]

YouTube - John McCain Gets BarackRoll'd (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TiQCJXpbKg)

[VQMaxFan]

The supreme court is there for a reason.

[KwKouki]

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w230/drftns14/palin_scarf.jpg

see even sarah palin wants us to vote democrat

[BoroDrifter]

See signature>

/debates



....enhance....
http://www.teamdeviant.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10029/normal_A-10_-_46.jpg

[KA24DESOneThree]

As long as we use it defensively and not offensively, you're within the Constitution.

[WanganRunner]

funny, since they're really not that conservative. they are more moderate than Obama/Biden.

Not socially.

Sarah Palin is a staunch social conservative and McCain has shown himself willing to be one to make himself marketable.

Fiscally, McCain is more "moderate" than Obama and Biden because he doesn't know much about the issue and thus generally avoids rendering too many opinions on it. He's an empty vessel for supply-side tax-cutting deficit-spending lunatics.


The GOP is NOT the party of fiscal conservatism. If it was, it would have made some meaningful dent in the deficit rather than having run it up beyond precedent. The GOP will *never* meaningfully cut spending.

Neither will the Democrats, but at least the Democrats know that you have to pay for spending with tax revenues rather than just borrowing from the Chinese. The GOP, left unchecked, would tax-cut us into oblivion.

[KA24DESOneThree]

The GOP, left unchecked, would tax-cut us into oblivion.

Good, then we can start anew with the same Constitution but a more responsive government. Perhaps we can avoid the problem of Marbury v. Madison as well.

[WanganRunner]

Good, then we can start anew with the same Constitution but a more responsive government. Perhaps we can avoid the problem of Marbury v. Madison as well.



Do you understand the implications of what would essentially be a federal bankruptcy? Is this what the GOP is thinking while they borrow billions of dollars a year that will never be repaid with tax revenue?

And why would such a bankruptcy invite a revision of our system of Government and judicial precedents?


I think that maybe we're just having a misunderstanding.

[Oo_Skyline_oO]

YouTube - John McCain Gets BarackRoll'd (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TiQCJXpbKg)


aaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha LMAO ROFL

[98s14inaz]

That's all well and dandy, but I can assure you right here and now that ANY uprising will be smashed and the perpetrators made out to be terrorists.

Your rifle across your back, and pistol on your hip won't mean shit when you're getting microwaved.

You're both right, why do you think the 2A issue is such a hot button. Citizens become subjects when you disarm them. Obama wants all "hunting" rifles banned, shot guns banned, hand guns limited to at most 6 shots if not out rightly banned. Why do you think that is? Something big is on the horizon.

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." - Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

This is the same reason the British lost control in 1776. Fuck Obama and fuck his pinko socialist ass. The world wants us neutered. We are being destroyed from the inside, just like Rome. Then we will be destroyed from the outside and absorbed.

[98s14inaz]

See signature>

/debates



....enhance....
http://www.teamdeviant.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10029/normal_A-10_-_46.jpg

LOL, so much win in that picture :ddog:

[EDacIouSX]

isn't it more like SOCIALISM HERE WE ARE???

Anyway, yea obama is a crazy mfker. people don't know half the shit he says.

I mean look at this video, what more proof do you need that he isnt ready to be president?

YouTube - Joe Biden On Barack Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8)


but seriously. mccain is bad too. he's for amnesty (obama is also) and both are open borders. WTF man. and bush not giving a pardon to those two border patrol agents wtf.


well i will be voting for mccain... simply because he's the better choice not because he's a good candidate.

[98s14inaz]

isn't it more like SOCIALISM HERE WE ARE???

Anyway, yea obama is a crazy mfker. people don't know half the shit he says.

I mean look at this video, what more proof do you need that he isnt ready to be president?

YouTube - Joe Biden On Barack Obama (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDVUPqoowf8)


but seriously. mccain is bad too. he's for amnesty (obama is also) and both are open borders. WTF man. and bush not giving a pardon to those two border patrol agents wtf.


well i will be voting for mccain... simply because he's the better choice not because he's a good candidate.

True, we are getting very socialistic. It is foolish to think that it will get better with a professed liberal with a socialistic agenda.

Those two border patrol guys need pardons. Bush is a piece of shit if he doesn't pardon them.

[Phlip]

True, we are getting very socialistic. It is foolish to think that it will get better with a professed liberal with a socialistic agenda.

Those two border patrol guys need pardons. Bush is a piece of shit if he doesn't pardon them.
Bush is a piece of shit whether he pardons them or not, he has already locked down that position.

[KA24DESOneThree]

Do you understand the implications of what would essentially be a federal bankruptcy? Is this what the GOP is thinking while they borrow billions of dollars a year that will never be repaid with tax revenue?

And why would such a bankruptcy invite a revision of our system of Government and judicial precedents?


I think that maybe we're just having a misunderstanding.

It was a bit of a joke.

If the country is tax-cut into oblivion, from the ashes it will be reborn.

[SexPanda]

History repeats itsself. We used to be a republic. A giant confederation of states that were self governing, yet worked together for the common good.

In 2,000 years people will look back and say "that was the united states. They were a great country. But the citizens got complacent. They fell apart, got invaded, and became the country you live in today. No go finish your soylent green and pray to Mecca."

[Walperstyle]

I like Colin Powell more than RJF :) Havent met either so I guess I could be wrong about both though...


Powell? Is he not the guy that helped stop the Gulf War the first go-around? back when there was a reason to go in and finish the job? Would have been far better off to have the support back then in the 90's to do the full counter-attack and take them out then.


In 2,000 years people will look back and say "that was the united states. They were a great country. But the citizens got complacent. They fell apart, got invaded, and became the country you live in today. No go finish your soylent green and pray to Mecca."


You mean to Buddah? lol China is already the superpower it needs to be. It'll figure out how to throw circut boards into aircraft one day and they'll have a descent air superiority for 1/8 the price lol

[cdlong]

they stopped back in the '90s because they realized then what our current leadership failed to realize this time around. it would have been/is an expensive nightmare.

oddly enough, some of our current leadership was some of the leadership in the '90s too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I

[HalveBlue]

You mean to Buddah?

No, the OP was referring to the fact that Islam is the second largest and fastest growing religion on earth. In, fact, Islam is growing so rapidly - mostly due to birth rates found in Muslim countries than conversions - that it's set to become the largest religion here eventually.

According to Tytler, all great civilizations go through similar cycles, which he proposed to be as follows:

* From bondage to spiritual faith;
* From spiritual faith to great courage;
* From courage to liberty;
* From liberty to abundance;
* From abundance to complacency;
* From complacency to apathy;
* From apathy to dependence;
* From dependence back into bondage.

IF we assume Tytler's theory to be correct, where does that place our current generation along the time scale?

[murda-c]

So i need to pound america into submission...put it under my control, so that it will retain it's will to fight and therefore remain free at heart?

[Phlip]

So i need to pound america into submission...put it under my control, so that it will retain it's will to fight and therefore remain free at heart?
Yeah, go for it.
Start with a coup d'etat, take cameras with you.

[98s14inaz]

No, the OP was referring to the fact that Islam is the second largest and fastest growing religion on earth. In, fact, Islam is growing so rapidly - mostly due to birth rates found in Muslim countries than conversions - that it's set to become the largest religion here eventually.

According to Tytler, all great civilizations go through similar cycles, which he proposed to be as follows:

* From bondage to spiritual faith;
* From spiritual faith to great courage;
* From courage to liberty;
* From liberty to abundance;
* From abundance to complacency;
* From complacency to apathy;
* From apathy to dependence;
* From dependence back into bondage.

IF we assume Tytler's theory to be correct, where does that place our current generation along the time scale?

* From complacency to apathy; <---We're here now.
* From apathy to dependence; <---We'll be here with a socialist president.

[Phlip]

* From complacency to apathy; <---We're here now.
* From apathy to dependence; <---We'll be here with a socialist president.
We'll be there with a president who borrows money from China to keep us at war as well.
Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other, but we can NOT let a minority lead us into ruin, so we MUST STOP BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA!!!

[KwKouki]

Yea these people got their shit straight.

YouTube - McCain Supporters in PA: "Bomb Obama" "Never vote for black" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL20TdHjX2s)

[RJF]

It's starting already and election isn't even over.

First - Free speech, next - our guns

4LohhWW1aWo

Nice how he equates talk radio to pornography.

[40daws]

It's starting already and election isn't even over.

First - Free speech, next - our guns

4LohhWW1aWo

Nice how he equates talk radio to pornography.

You are so young, my son, and, as the years go by, time will change and even reverse many of your present opinions. Refrain therefore awhile from setting yourself up as judge of the highest matters.

Plato

[alindeman1989]

man were going to be so fucked with obama in office. i think im moving to canada.

[98s14inaz]

man were going to be so fucked with obama in office. i think im moving to canada.

You need to move waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay south, even then it will only be temporary because eventually, there will be no where to run.

[legacy927]

is there gona be another JFK waiting to happen?

i like how they said, "it's not about the race". then u see the ghettos start acting up already in front of the camera. throwing up their stupid ass gang signs. grow the f**k up!! all they care about is the black pride...u really think they have any knowledge on politics?

[CrimsonRockett]

Election is over.

Obama won.

Try again in 2012.

:lockd: