Turbo for my 350rwph Project? (Not average thread)

[OperationSr20]

To begin, I say its not the average thread because I have done searching and am knowledgeable but need some guidance.

I started collecting parts for my Ka24De Turbo build earlier this year, but my plans keep on changing and need help finalizing my build! I decided to bite the bullet and just shoot for my end goals off the bat; 350rwhp.

I replaced my first turbo, when I intended to make only 250rwhp, with a Garrett Super 60 with hopes to ballpark the 350rwhp, after looking into it and finding similar size turbos (.60/.63) I found that it'll suit my needs. However getting into more details, I found even though the A/R's of the turbos were the same, the Trim may not have been... The Super 60 could reach 340rwhp, however reaching that Horsepower and SAFELY running that Horsepower is two different things, seeing the turbo will max out around there... Not too safe running a maxed out turbo!

So I am trying to find a turbo that will allow me to SAFELY run 350rwhp with a Faster Spool, and good Mid Range Power Band... I know what som of you are probably thinking... .64 Housed GT2871r, seeing its a very responsive turbo, can safely handles 350rwp and produces good mid range power...

However I can't much afford a $1100.00 Turbo, and can't justify paying an extra $750.00 to make 50 more hp the wheels... [Super 60 can run safely at 300whp & costed $350.00 (however didn't pay that much...)]

So can anyone recommend a good T3 or T3/T4 Turbo that fits what I'm looking for, and doesn't cost 3 Arms and a leg? OHH!! and is externally Wastegated, I already have a Tial 38mm Wastegate w/ 1 Bar Spring and Custom Dump Pipe, which I paid $100.00 Shipped for.

THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!

[codyace]

T3 Super Suckies are junk. 350 whp is out of the question IMO...or if it does make it, will need some serious boost thrown at it.

There are tons of threads about this all over this forum. Take some time and do some reading and you'll get all the info you need. With over 1000 posts, I find it hard to believe that you didn't do your homework.

IMO: I understand not everyone can afford everything, but if you're attempting to 'mod on a budget', I strongly suggest to do you homework and save up for the better parts...or just hold off on modding for now.

Ideal: GT2871r .64 housing, t2 based. Incredible spool and tons of fun.

[OperationSr20]

I'm not, for say, modding on a budget; this is an on-going project and will save if neccisary; but was mearly asking if any had some opinions on good turbos that could meet 350rwhp other then the .64 Gt281r. I am not saying I am the all holy god and saught all that has been posted but I have researched and continue to do so, posting the thread I felt was a good way to get a directed to something specific as I research the entire web... I already looked through the 16page thread on Gt2871r's posted on here via Google Search, and as stated, will continue to search more.

I thank you for your views and will continue to search

[g6civcx]

So I am trying to find a turbo that will allow me to SAFELY run 350rwhp with a Faster Spool, and good Mid Range Power Band...

However I can't much afford a $1100.00 Turbo, and can't justify paying an extra $750.00 to make 50 more hp the wheels...

I have a question. What are your goals and what are you willing to pay to get there?

You said you want 350 rwhp; however, you said you also want spool and midrange.

It's a little difficult to do all these things, but ok, it's doable. People have been known to run 400 bhp at the wheels with decent spool and midrange.

But then you throw the money factor on top of everything.


Another question: why is 350 rwhp such an important number? What if you made only 250 rwhp but moved the same torque curve down 3000k RPM or so?

The response and midrange will be there, as well as torque. The calculated HP number will not be there, but why are you chasing a HP figure to begin with?

[Flicktitty]

GT30

CHEAP / RELIABLE / FAST

Pick two cause you can't have all three.

[sac]

^ agreed, but your still a grand for a turbo, plus cost of manifold..
have ya thought about maybe REBUILDING the bottom end?
going with a 1 piece driveline?

If you rebuild and stay factory compression but get forged pistons, and bore over say .020 that will give ya a little more power. You can machine the factory rods, and go arp headstuds. To make more reliable power. Rebuild/bore/1piece driveline could get ya approx 50 whp at peak boost.. And will do more than that for WTQ.-this route probably will run you about $1700 if your only paying for pistons/bearings/studs/machine work/driveline

snag up a holset turbo off a Dodge cummins. Might need to get different manifold, ic piping tho. This could be done for probably $800?

N20. probably not what you want to do, but will get ya there for a couple hundred

[OperationSr20]

My goals are 350rwhp and I am willing to pay what it takes to get there; I don't mind eating Ramen & Mac 'n Cheese or waiting na extra month to save up that $200.00-$300.00 dollars to buy the better quality/performing item.

Also yes I would "prefer" midrange with good spool, but at the same time beggers can't be choosers and I understand that you need to sacrifice some things to get others. Which is one of the main reasons that I posted, to see if its possible... And when I say quick spool I'm not so much refering to 20PSI at 2600RPMs, something to go along with the stock Ka's powerband of 3500RPMs, and at 1 Bar...I believe I read the GT2871 kinda levels out towards Redline, which is okay to me.

350 is my goal because I believe that is a really good number to have for a street car, I'd say above average but not too crazy...

What's going through my head right now is whether or not to use the Super "Sucky" as my initial set-up to get boosted and then maybe upgrade to the Gt2871, or similar, later on... But by doing that I'd have to replace my manifold, external wastegate and such as well...

I am one that believes in do it right, do it once. I'm not afraid to take time to save, I'm not sfraid to spend money, I was mearly asking if there was another alternative, to allow comparison. or if I only had one option.

I have a question. What are your goals and what are you willing to pay to get there?

You said you want 350 rwhp; however, you said you also want spool and midrange.

It's a little difficult to do all these things, but ok, it's doable. People have been known to run 400 bhp at the wheels with decent spool and midrange.

But then you throw the money factor on top of everything.


Another question: why is 350 rwhp such an important number? What if you made only 250 rwhp but moved the same torque curve down 3000k RPM or so?

The response and midrange will be there, as well as torque. The calculated HP number will not be there, but why are you chasing a HP figure to begin with?

[OperationSr20]

Guys, ill reply to all other threads when I can, I am working and only get a bit at a time to post...

[g6civcx]

Do you want 350 rwhp at the low end, mid range, or top end? Because if you want it on the low end, I don't think it's possible based on your budget.

It's feasible to make that around 5-6k RPM, but if you insist on making that much 3-4k RPM, you would be pushing your budget.


That's why I don't think it's productive to talk HP numbers. Let's talk torque and at what RPM you want to make that torque. Depends on what you want, it may or may not be doable on a small displacement 4 cylinder.

Like for example, I make 400 ft-lbs at 2,500 RPM. That's only about 200 bhp at most; however, there is no way a KA can make 400 ft-lbs at 2k rpm without some serious work.

Now if you want 200 bhp at 6k RPM, that's not so bad. NA KA can make that.

It all depends at what RPM you want your torque.

[codyace]

Super-60's are a gimic from the late 90's, early 2000's of turbo. For the most part, it's a sepcifically designed/clipped turbo at that...making most super 60's not really super 60's


Your best best is that 2871r .64 housing. You'll have TONS of midrange, all the power you need up top, and easily make your power goals.

[OperationSr20]

^ agreed, but your still a grand for a turbo, plus cost of manifold..
have ya thought about maybe REBUILDING the bottom end?
going with a 1 piece driveline?

If you rebuild and stay factory compression but get forged pistons, and bore over say .020 that will give ya a little more power. You can machine the factory rods, and go arp headstuds. To make more reliable power. Rebuild/bore/1piece driveline could get ya approx 50 whp at peak boost.. And will do more than that for WTQ.-this route probably will run you about $1700 if your only paying for pistons/bearings/studs/machine work/driveline

snag up a holset turbo off a Dodge cummins. Might need to get different manifold, ic piping tho. This could be done for probably $800?

N20. probably not what you want to do, but will get ya there for a couple hundred

I have DEFFINATELY thought about a built bottom end, and my intentions at first were:

250rwhp Base, Piggyback, setup then rebuild/upgrade turbo/injectors and tune; but I've decided to bite the bullet and go for my end goals and tune now.

I have been spending a lot more time on Ka-T.org and all 'n all apears as though "If you don't need too, why?". Although that's not directly as I mean; it does have reasonings behind it.. Head Studs/Gasket should be good for upwards over 400whp, and ill only be running 14lbs of boost, so it will not be under extreme pressure. Granted it will allow for higher boost and will improve numbers, but I won't be doing it initially, however am still planning to in the future with that said, and to better the longevity of the engine. I have looked into AMS' rebuild kits and will still be what I look into when I do rebuild. I was going to do the advanced but my timing chain is going now, and I already sourced the neccisary replacement kits for $100.00 Shipped, over $300.00 worth ofparts from Courtesy Nissan... so I'd go with the Basic Kit....

I also considered just doing Head Studs and Cometic Head Gasket, but after hearing stocks are capable above my goals, I figured its really not neccisary at this time. I already bought a set of ARP Headstuds too, with 500 miles, for mad cheap; so I may just look into reselling them, seeing they'll be included in rebuild kit...

I have thought about 1 piece driveline, help lower the rotating mass and the perks to follow... reaction/acceleration/torque gains and well "freeing up" some more hp, but that's one of the items that I'd consider later.. I can say I didn't know those were the numbers to follow the mods.

As far as your holset idea, ill check it out, for $800.00 I've seen Gt2871's with a couple thousand .miles go for that much or I'd wait a month or so to save up and get one. I am also doing custom intercooler piping. and yea, not lookin for N20...

[OperationSr20]

Do you want 350 rwhp at the low end, mid range, or top end? Because if you want it on the low end, I don't think it's possible based on your budget.

It's feasible to make that around 5-6k RPM, but if you insist on making that much 3-4k RPM, you would be pushing your budget.


That's why I don't think it's productive to talk HP numbers. Let's talk torque and at what RPM you want to make that torque. Depends on what you want, it may or may not be doable on a small displacement 4 cylinder.

Like for example, I make 400 ft-lbs at 2,500 RPM. That's only about 200 bhp at most; however, there is no way a KA can make 400 ft-lbs at 2k rpm without some serious work.

Now if you want 200 bhp at 6k RPM, that's not so bad. NA KA can make that.

It all depends at what RPM you want your torque.

I'd like my power to go along wit the Ka's Powerband which is ~3500-6000ish, it does not have to take me all the way to redline... So if I get a good amount of boost by 3500 and carry it to 5/6000, I'd be content. Maybe [in the future] pick up a set of cams to hit harder at Top End, and pick up some higher Torque numbers... Maybe.

Honestly, I love torque, and is one of the reasons I decided to turbo the Ka, because with High HP numbers, brings a good chance for Higher torque Numbers...

Is this possible?

[OperationSr20]

Super-60's are a gimic from the late 90's, early 2000's of turbo. For the most part, it's a sepcifically designed/clipped turbo at that...making most super 60's not really super 60's


Your best best is that 2871r .64 housing. You'll have TONS of midrange, all the power you need up top, and easily make your power goals.

Thanks! Do you still have yours? I saw you had posted in that 16 page thread concerning Gt2871's/Cam thread on Sr's...

[S14DB]

GT32 73 Trim .78A/R: atpturbo.com (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GT32-73TRIM-78AR&Category_Code=GTNBB)

[idahotuner]

i love my gt2871r. 64 on my sr, and wit hthat same turbo on a KA with that extra displacement you could see full boost at 3500 easily.


and its (torque x rpm)/ 52 i believe that gets you your HP number.

[sunnys14]

The most basic turbo in the world: T3/T4 50 trim .63AR, these can be found as little as $400 bucks.

That turbo will get you 350whp easy with low cost.

GT2871R .64AR is a good turbo on a SR, but the .64 housing will just choke out in the top end on a KA.

[OperationSr20]

GT32 73 Trim .78A/R: atpturbo.com (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GT32-73TRIM-78AR&Category_Code=GTNBB)

Why is the Gt32 cheaper then the GT28? IIRC, The GT28 is a 72 Trim and the GT32 is a 73 and I believe has a higher Exhaust A/R....

Also, I dont know if its a stupid Q but can I get the GT32 with a 5 Bolt outlet, when I get the Externally Gated version? I ask only b/c it shows it as a 6 Bolt under Externally Gated....

Thank you, Thank you!

[OperationSr20]

i love my gt2871r. 64 on my sr, and wit hthat same turbo on a KA with that extra displacement you could see full boost at 3500 easily.


and its (torque x rpm)/ 52 i believe that gets you your HP number.

No replacement for displacement, but thanks for your input, and possibly making mespend another $600.00, Haha. Man I'm loving the sound of this turbo more and more every post.

ONLY concern is its a T2 Flnane and I don't know the availabilityof a T2 Flanged Ka24De Manifold.. that's is NOT Ebay...

[g6civcx]

and its (torque x rpm)/ 52 i believe that gets you your HP number.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/c/d/c/cdc8e63f6e275a583fcfb6ed10a43cc7.png

werd

[OperationSr20]

The most basic turbo in the world: T3/T4 50 trim .63AR, these can be found as little as $400 bucks.

That turbo will get you 350whp easy with low cost.

GT2871R .64AR is a good turbo on a SR, but the .64 housing will just choke out in the top end on a KA.

That was confirmed both on Ka-T.org.

1) T3/T4 50 Trim. I was hoping to hear a littl more about it when I posted; I.e. Names/Brands Reccomendations etc. etc.

2) GT2871R Choking on Top End...Yes and I believed was due to the T2 Flange... Granted I don't much mind if it levels out in the Top End, but if theres a Turbo that won't, and is less; and makes the same power... why not?

[SoguRacing]

i think you'd be fine with the t3/t4 to4e 50 trim.

[OperationSr20]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/c/d/c/cdc8e63f6e275a583fcfb6ed10a43cc7.png

werd


Pretty cool to know! Thanks guys!

"Horsepower Sells Cars, Torque wins races" right...

[bshotts]

I don't agree about the 2871 running out of steam with the KA24...here's a link to the compressor map layout for 18 and 20 psi. I know you were looking for a sweet spot of 3500 to 6000....well buddy do you have one with the 2871 at either boost level. Looks like it would sing anywhere in that area and definitely no worries about compressor surge or running past efficiency, unless you start climbing above 7500 which I'm assuming isn't an issue for you with the KA.

http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/43125/2232348380101047631S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2232348380101047631atRmSh)

[S14DB]

Why is the Gt32 cheaper then the GT28? IIRC, The GT28 is a 72 Trim and the GT32 is a 73 and I believe has a higher Exhaust A/R....

Also, I dont know if its a stupid Q but can I get the GT32 with a 5 Bolt outlet, when I get the Externally Gated version? I ask only b/c it shows it as a 6 Bolt under Externally Gated....

Thank you, Thank you!

It's a GT32 not a GT30R. Journal Bearing center section not BB. It's GT wheels with a Journal center. Much better then a T- series.

ATP TURBO - The Premiere Provider of Turbocharging Components (http://www.atpturbo.com/root/technicinfo/gtvst.htm)
ATP TURBO - The Premiere Provider of Turbocharging Components (http://www.atpturbo.com/root/technicinfo/bbjb.htm)


I would have recommended this if you didn't want to be so cheap:
Garrett GT3071R: atpturbo.com (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-020&Category_Code=GRT)

[OperationSr20]

Haha, DB..

Yea I just came back from ATP checking out their T Series TUrbos and they run just below the GT32, in price... T3/T4 Stage II good for 400+ = $695.00...

I'm going to check out the GT30 now, which was also suggested before. And I'm not being cheap, I'm being smart with ny money, as I said I don't mind Eatting Ramen and taking an extra couple of checks to get something if that's what I NEED.

Also thanks for the info on the GT281, shotts. Pic didn't load for me, but I'm on my pgone and woyldnt be able to see it anyway, but your word I will rake!

[S14DB]

Haha, DB..

Yea I just came back from ATP checking out their T Series TUrbos and they run just below the GT32, in price... T3/T4 Stage II good for 400+ = $695.00...

I'm going to check out the GT30 now, which was also suggested before. And I'm not being cheap, I'm being smart with ny money, as I said I don't mind Eatting Ramen and taking an extra couple of checks to get something if that's what I NEED.

Also thanks for the info on the GT281, shotts. Pic didn't load for me, but I'm on my pgone and woyldnt be able to see it anyway, but your word I will rake!

You can slap a T4 on there and make 1,000hp. Still gonna be laggy as hell.

Read the 2 links on turbo tech. Why I want you to at least go with a GT. T technology is older than you are.

IMHO the 3071R is the best match for the KA in response and power band. .68 is good for 350+ and .86 for 400+

[Toi]

The question is, what dyno is going to do the reading? What might hit 350 on one dyno will not hit 350 on another?

Why 350, why not just tune it out until you like where its at and be happy? People under estimate these numbers they just throw out.

Also people have said it a dozen times, if you want a turbo that is going to be cheap/fast/reliable you are going to HAVE to spend the cash. Skimping out on the turbo is a waste of time!

[S14DB]

The question is, what dyno is going to do the reading? What might hit 350 on one dyno will not hit 350 on another?

Why 350, why not just tune it out until you like where its at and be happy? People under estimate these numbers they just throw out.

Also people have said it a dozen times, if you want a turbo that is going to be cheap/fast/reliable you are going to HAVE to spend the cash. Skimping out on the turbo is a waste of time!

My question is, Why did you bump another 2 year old thread for commentary?

[24j0hn]

youll have to boost 20lbs to make over 350 on any turbo... the gt35r turbo is a well fit turbo for that... tune it for 25lbs so that you can tune it down to 20lbs after...

it would be highly recommended to port/ match port and polish the head for better flow... lower the comp to 8.5-9:1 forged... even though the stock internals can handle that much, it cant take it for too long...

it will take 65lb/hr injectors or 700cc/min injectors to pump the fuel you need... nistune would be highly recomennded the only thing is you gotta drive it to the dyno shop after startup, but theres plenty of those around