KA24DE n/a performance ceiling...

[huntz0r]

Hey all, I tried the search a bit but didn't find anything. (course it also won't search for just 'ka')

I'm wondering what level of performance can be achieved with a KA24DE without going turbo - stuff like I/H/E, headwork, cams, ECU.

I think my motor is gradually heading toward the end of its life; I know that most folks go with an SR swap (or turbo KA) but my mechanical abilities are far below doing it myself, so I'm not gonna be able to afford the $5-6k for a turnkey swap. And since my 240's chassis is pretty much original parts at 140k and 10 years old, I would rather have a new, reliable (and warranteed!) KA so I can put my money into gradually improving the suspension, chassis, and brakes. Only after that would I do engine tuning, which is where this post comes in.

If you can't tell already, I'm not much of a power junkie. Not to the point of sacrificing a better chassis, at least. Of course, that's why I bought an S13 instead of a Mustang or something :) I'd probably be happy enough with 190-200fwhp out of a KA, hell maybe less. I mean the torque band is still really nice :)

Thanks for any help.

[Jeff240sx]

Well... you can get 190-200 flywheel hp out of the KA fairly easily. I/H/E and ecu should get you very close. Then upgrade cams, and you're done.
But you can easily sink tons of cash into suspension goodies... so go for it!
-Jeff

[240 2NR]

I think the agreed upon streetable rwhp ceiling is right around 200hp if you do internal work.

I'd guess 200 flywheel hp to be producable (no one has actually hooked up an engine dyno on a modded KA that I know of), considering people are hitting around 170rwhp with the mods you mentioned which should work out to around 200 at the flywheel.

[misnomer]

Well, you're looking at dynos in the 160s from cars like PDMs and a couple on the forums. Add to that your typical rough 25% from drivetrain loss.

[AKADriver]

Hey, look what the cat dragged in :p

Yeah, realistically you're going to see 160-170hp at the wheels out of a KA24DE before you really have to open it up. I/H/E, mild cams, ECU.

[tnord]

25% drivetrain loss is pretty high. 20% is more accurate i would imagine.

130/155 = about 84% which is 16% drivetrain loss. probably a bit underestimated, but it's close.

outa curiosity, has anybody really dove into ECU tuning for the KA? i know JWT has upgrades, but they are standardized are they not? i mean, is there decent power to be had from some pretty severe fuel and ignition mapping?

[wren240sx]

i/h/e , ecu, cams, pulleys, lightened flywheel, doesnt the s13 ka have a 2 piece driveshaft? not sure about that. but an aluminum driveshaft would probably get you very close to what you want

[logo20]

getting another ka and installing i/h/e, ecu, headwork, flywheel, cams and pulley in my opinion is more work than just buying a sr and installing it, you'll get more hp from the sr, and you can go from there to get even more hp.
If you stick with the ka I'll recomend you do suspension first, then drivetrain: flywheel, clutch, pulley, light weight driveshaft(if you can find one) and leave cam, i/h/e and ecu for last. all that should put you close to 190 hp to the flywheel depending on the products you get.
You can't expect every upgrade to increase the same hp gain claimed by aftermarket manufacturers.

[Jeff240sx]

Originally posted by wren240sx
i/h/e , ecu, cams, pulleys, lightened flywheel, doesnt the s13 ka have a 2 piece driveshaft? not sure about that. but an aluminum driveshaft would probably get you very close to what you want

Incorrect.
Flywheel and driveshaft will not give significant horsepower gains. They are mainly for reducing rotating mass on the engine, and allowing for quicker revs.
-Jeff

[wren240sx]

Originally posted by Jeff240sx
Incorrect.
Flywheel and driveshaft will not give significant horsepower gains. They are mainly for reducing rotating mass on the engine, and allowing for quicker revs.
-Jeff
wont lighter drivetrain parts reduce the percent of hp lost from the flywheel?

[LanceS13]

Interesting point. Less mass simply means less inertia. So it's easier to get spinning to a certain rpm, but not easier to keep spinning at that rpm, right? So it would reach a certian rpm easier, but not neccessarily make more power there. Now, if it's all balanced, I can see a small gain via less power dicipation through small vibrations.

[wren240sx]

Originally posted by LanceS13
Interesting point. Less mass simply means less inertia. So it's easier to get spinning to a certain rpm, but not easier to keep spinning at that rpm, right? So it would reach a certian rpm easier, but not neccessarily make more power there. Now, if it's all balanced, I can see a small gain via less power dicipation through small vibrations.
hmmm. . . what about tires? if i had 215/55/16s on and put it on a dyno. then put 285/55/16s on the same car and dyno. would i get the same hp reading?

[240 2NR]

Originally posted by wren240sx
hmmm. . . what about tires? if i had 215/55/16s on and put it on a dyno. then put 285/55/16s on the same car and dyno. would i get the same hp reading?

Yes, there would be a change in the power curve (at the wheels), however you didn't actually change the engine, you just made it harder for the car to accelerate. I think if you held a constant speed though (if it were possible to do on a dyno) with each set of tires you would see the same power reading. Basically the big tires are adding drivetrain loss, you didn't add or lose any engine power. The same mistake is made when people say they gained hp by using lighter wheels. You just reduced the drievtrain losses. Since a chassis dyno relies on how fast you can accelerate the drums, reducing the weight of your wheels, you can accereate it slightly faster thus altering the final reading. You would also feel the changes when driving on the streets.

[hurleyboi514]

you can run SOHC pistons for an 11.1:1 or 11.6:1 compression ratio as well....

id like to rebuild my KA for DSP autox class so i can win it. i took 2nd last year, and only had two mods that put me in. now i have about 3 more mods, and still have alot of stuff i can do to remain in DSP. if i really want a super fast car, ill get another car and keep my autox/track slut...

btw, here is the piston info from [email protected]

http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=67255762&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=&vc=1&PHPSESSID=

[LanceS13]

That last post was half statement, half question. I'm not entirely sure on this subject. Lighter components will definitely make the engine more responsive and acceleration will be quicker, but is that considered a power gain at the wheels (and does is show up on a dyno) or is it simply like reducing weight elsewhere in the car multiplied by the fact that it's spinning? Where's DSC's rotating mass FAQ when you need it?

[wren240sx]

im just thinking about making the car quicker. flywheel, driveshaft, pulleys, and some good light weight tires would do that though wouldnt it? i dont know im not an engineer. .

[LanceS13]

Originally posted by wren240sx
im just thinking about making the car quicker. flywheel, driveshaft, pulleys, and some good light weight tires would do that though wouldnt it? i dont know im not an engineer. .

definitely...any weight loss will make the car quicker