Trust/GReddy Japan claim bankruptcy (?)

[Teknolust72]

I've heard from several reliable sources that Sapporo Trust, Inc, the parent company of Greddy/Trust Japan has filed bankruptcy. Its really sad to hear that is what the situation in the Japanese aftermarket automotive industry has come to. Greddy has been around for ages, and is an icon for this industry (how many of you guys love the DD exhaust....)

So everytime you guys think about buying some cheap crap from ebay, thinking you can always upgrade later, well thats not always the case...If you really have pride in your car, buy QUALITY parts, and support the companies that have supported the scene since the beginning.

I hope the rumors are false, but if they are true, lets all hope that Greddy will pull through and continue to be around....

http://www.greddy.com/news/2xg_d1.jpg

[stiizy]

Wow i would've never thought this would happen...

Do you think it will Effect Greddy USA largely or are they like there own thing now rather than a Branch of Trust?

[Brian]

sad.


This is what happens when everybody starts buying the CHEAPEST parts possible that are obviously blatent rip offs.

[Future240]

I thought Greddy was top of the line material that everyone bought. Kind of like a rival to hks.

[Brian]

They are.

But people (especially over here) like to buy the cheapest/shittiest parts to save some money.
So, less money for the quality company.
You can't run a business with no income.

[stiizy]

I hate people who opt out for cheap shit also....

I rather spend the money on Quality than skim and buy some cheaper shit to rust or break..

[Teknolust72]

Wow i would've never thought this would happen...

Do you think it will Effect Greddy USA largely or are they like there own thing now rather than a Branch of Trust?

I really dont know the fine details of how the Greddy USA is organized, but if the parent company goes under, there wont be much support for the U.S. office. You have to remember, about 70% of Greddy R&D is in Japan, and the Japan office is responsible for new products. Greddy USA has its own R&D, but its main purposes is to localize products to the U.S. market.

However, there have been many instances where companies have claimed bankruptcy, and another company comes and buys them out so that they can continue operations (this practice is very common in the Japanese automotive aftermarket industry; it kind of makes me think there is some brotherly love for other companies, regardless of circumstances)

[Future240]

^Maybe hks will do the same to greddy

[Teknolust72]

^Maybe hks will do the same to greddy

Well, a little birdy told me that HKS is not fairing too well either.....but I dont think their situation is as bad as Greddy's

[Future240]

Well, a little birdy told me that HKS is not fairing too well either.....but I dont think their situation is as bad as Greddy's

Damn perhaps Tial then?

[Mi Beardo es Loco]

I'm beginning to think that there's no money in making quality. Maybe in the future Megan will be the best we can get :(

[Brian]

Well, I think it is sad.


There are a lot of stories of the "junk" parts breaking/not working right/bad fitment/etc. but people continue to buy that stuff.

I guess if you can spend $1000 on a quality part, but spend only $200 on a "copy" of that part, some people look at it like this.

I can risk all my money on that ONE part, OR I can buy the cheaper one and have FIVE chances at getting it right.


See what I mean?






I don't buy junk parts for my car.

[sunnys14]

Lets all go out and buy Freddy intake manifolds and fake ebay Freddy turbo extensions and catch cans.

This is how the new school 240 owners think and would rather buy than to get higher quality parts.

Makes me feel sad when back in 03 I busted my ass off to save up and get the good shit before knockoffs were even available. Now these days kids can get the knockoff version of my stuff for 1/2 the price. Cheap bastards...

Makes me wonder if ALL the BIG companies start to die out, where will knockoffs come from? Obviously they come from the BIG companies that created it. Will this be the beginning of an end of all aftermarket parts for the S-chassis?

[Future240]

I may not own a 240 but I would know better than to buy some cheapo knockoff ebay manifold that cracks on me in 6 months

[Knapik]

I thought Greddy was top of the line material that everyone bought. Kind of like a rival to hks.

They are, but HKS is struggling as well

This is why we should boycott the cheap companies. By buying the cheaper companies you are hurting the positive growth of this industry.

i hope to see greddy pull through.

[Maxstyle]

They are, but HKS is struggling as well

This is why we should boycott the cheap companies. By buying the cheaper companies you are hurting the positive growth of this industry.

i hope to see greddy pull through.

Agreed, The engineers that put their time and knowledge all go to waste. They already had to take paycuts. Then someone comes along and knocks off the products. I remember when it happened to Apexi last year and they are just struggling in Japan. Not only that but banks won't loan any money to the auto industry out there.

[idahotuner]

well i know that greddy stopped giving discounts to all the vendors over here. that is why everything wit hthe greddy name tag on it went up about 30-40%

[Knapik]

Greddys msrp didnt go up for marketing purposes (again people dont want to pay for the quallity). they changed the discount structure to compensate for rising material cost.

[FRpilot]

great.. must get greddy products before can't' get them anymore..

must also stock up on hks ssqv if hks goes down too.


I really dont know the fine details of how the Greddy USA is organized, but if the parent company goes under, there wont be much support for the U.S. office. You have to remember, about 70% of Greddy R&D is in Japan, and the Japan office is responsible for new products. Greddy USA has its own R&D, but its main purposes is to localize products to the U.S. market.


i didn't know greddy usa had their own R&D. i thought they just distribute the japanese greddy products here, so if the japanese greddy died, there would be no products for greddy usa to bring over. even if greddy usa has r&d department here, i doubt they will r&d and producenew products, and if they do, it will probably be for mainstream usdm cars. no more sr/rb development.

hopefully greddy can use the old molds/production process to keep pumping out their footballs since they already spent money to r&d it. imo, they already have a great lineup. i'm fine if they don't produce new products, just keep producing/supporting the existing products.

[Teknolust72]

well i know that greddy stopped giving discounts to all the vendors over here. that is why everything wit hthe greddy name tag on it went up about 30-40%

Also, the pricing discounts were restructured so that "some dude living at home with his parents running his ebay shop" wouldnt have have the deepest discounts. All the price restructuring affecting only those vendors that couldnt meet the Greddy dealer program. Those dealers that met the requirements of the dealer program, had very little changes to their discounts.

This is an attempt by a manufacturer to help stabilize the industry, and stop all the price whoring nonsense.....

[jspaeth]

Gayness

I have spent retarded amounts of money on my car and not one part is from a knock off company

Greddy, HKS, Apex'i, Work..........cheaping out is just not an option

[ch1873857]

mods should ban the traffiking and distribution of fake parts in the marketplace, where do i sign?

[TheWolf]

Market changed a long time ago. Easy to make cast items are no longer going to be a big profit. Obviously the market didn't think a cast lower oil pan with some flapper doors was worth $375. Or a intake manifold worth $675. Now if they made a "greddy street" manifold and a "greddy race" manifold and split the difference they might have saved the cash but people are done buying expensive parts when one of similar functionality can be had for 25% of the cost.

[Brian]

No shit.

if the cheap ass customer sees one $ sign compared to $$$$ dollar signs, they are going to buy the low dollar one.

Oh well, look at the cars that all those shit parts go on.
ugh.

[n240sxfnatic]

No articles out yet but the supposed number is $60 million in debt...

[Maxstyle]

Drifting Videos | Car Racing Videos - GT Channel - Trust/GReddy Files for bankruptcy in Japan (http://www.gtchannel.com/content.php?cid=30955)

Japan's largest credit research company Teikoku Databank announced that automotive parts manufacturer Trust filed for bankruptcy on September 10th, 2008. Trust also known abroad as Greddy is reported to be approx US$60M in debt.

In February 2008, Trust reported declined annual sales of US$53M. Loan payments totallying US$43M became a burden and was forced to file bankruptcy to the Tokyo District Court.

Trust was founded in 1976 and employs 190 workers producing exhausts, springs, turbo chargers and car electronics. A US subsidiary, Greddy Performance Products was founded in 1994 to expand overseas sales. In 1998 Trust reported annual sales of US$80M but since then sales had been declining.

[stiizy]

whoa 60 mill in the hole damn.......

[SoSideways]

whoa 60 mill in the hole damn.......

Because people stopped buying their oil pans and intake manifolds, and blow off valves too.

[Maxstyle]

Market changed a long time ago. Easy to make cast items are no longer going to be a big profit. Obviously the market didn't think a cast lower oil pan with some flapper doors was worth $375. Or a intake manifold worth $675. Now if they made a "greddy street" manifold and a "greddy race" manifold and split the difference they might have saved the cash but people are done buying expensive parts when one of similar functionality can be had for 25% of the cost.

You must buy knock offs, huh? Did you ever think about the engineers they have to pay? It's not just make and mold. There are many technical people behind the product. They don't wait for someone to make it then buy one and copy it. It takes $ to get the data to begin from scratch.

[cisco240]

Hit Autoblog just a couple minutes ago:
Japanese tuning firm Trust/Greddy declares bankruptcy - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/10/japanese-tuning-firm-trust-greddy-declares-bankruptcy/)

Sucks to. I remember picking up one of the 1st Aluminum KA radiators from the Greddy HQ in Irvine.

[SR2Zero]

This is horrible. Man, when I put a part on my car, I like to brag brand names and know I have high quality. I don't ever plan to answer the "what kind of manifold is that?" question with "ebay."

[SimpleS14]

wow, I wonder if this will have a ripple effect on HKS, Blitz and Apexi. So sad. :[

If these guys are gone, there will be very little available as far as innovation. However, as odd as it may sound, this can be a moment for a small private business to venture into this industry with one-off products (yes I'm aware its going on now....just at a higher level).

[norcal_black240]

Does not suprise me that greddy/trust is going out of business at all. Quality products cost money and to many people do not want to pay that type of money. With companies like rota, sportmax, megan racing, etc. It gives people a easy way out. Its only a matter of time until other companies like hks, apexi, tomei, etc. go out of business.

The car scene is dying in japan and to many cheap people in america so all the good companies cant make anything

[Brian]

Well, business are always going to rise and fall.

It can be nice for smaller guys here (or in Japan for that matter) to hopefully start selling more and more of their own products.

However, it will be shitty if the products that start selling more and more are the ones from companies like Extreme Dimensions / Megan / etc.

They don't come up with anything original, but rather, they just take a product that was already developed, and copy it with absolutly no effort.

Instead of QUALITY, all they want to focus on is QUANTITY.



Back in the day, it was really hard finding parts for our cars.
everybody wanted more products available.
it happened.
now we still the consequences.

[boro otaku]

Do you think it was 100% the fault of eBay crap, or could it be related to the decline in the import culture? I know 5 years ago we were RED HOT... but now things have seemed to settle down a little.

[spikNspan]

aww damn this is lame, I got a bunch of trust/greddy on the forty, if it's true this is sad.

[Brian]

Of course it isn't 100% ebay junk crap fault.

But it offered a quick and cheap way to modify your "ride".

It damn well did a good number on the REAL companies.

[bodiesenmotion]

i have heard from word of mouth that greddy declared bankruptcy in japan because they are moving their operations to the US.

Don't quote me on this but it's what i have heard. If this is true than we still have hope!

[Brian]

I find it pretty ridiculous that I get phone calls / PMs / Emails from potential customers who have to ask what the difference is between VeilSide products and those "other" ones (invader, etc.)

I have to explain the same thing over and over to people.

[drftmark]

Damn.

That really sucks.

[idahotuner]

Also, the pricing discounts were restructured so that "some dude living at home with his parents running his ebay shop" wouldnt have have the deepest discounts. All the price restructuring affecting only those vendors that couldnt meet the Greddy dealer program. Those dealers that met the requirements of the dealer program, had very little changes to their discounts.

This is an attempt by a manufacturer to help stabilize the industry, and stop all the price whoring nonsense.....

the first part is true the 2nd isnt. places like phase2 which are sponsors o nthis site and nico are allso affect and they are greddy dealers

[Flicktitty]

man that sucks, i hope they can pull through :(

[KwKouki]

thank you eBay

[boro otaku]

Let's hope the other big guys stay in business :)

[HyperTek]

sad.


This is what happens when everybody starts buying the CHEAPEST parts possible that are obviously blatent rip offs.

well said.. support your hobby buy real stuff!!! Tuning cars is an art and passion, its not about slapping ebay this and fake that on your car

[FRpilot]

Oh well, look at the cars that all those shit parts go on.
ugh.


hahah. can't agree more with that. i see 1 tastefully modded 240sx for every 20 ugly mismatched body panel ghetto 240sx out there.

[autotechmotoring]

well said.. support your hobby buy real stuff!!! Tuning cars is an art and passion, its not about slapping ebay this and fake that on your car

About 75% of the import crowd doesnt believe that. The next generation of car builders just want the cheap go fast for 2 days parts. It not only hurts the manufacturers, but hurts us the tuning shops too in return. Its all a domino effect.

[s13silvia123]

Posted Sep 10th 2008 3:32PM by Damon Lavrinc
Filed under: Aftermarket, Tuners, Government/Legal, Japan



The market for aftermarket parts from Japan has been declining for well over five years, due in part to decreased demand both at home and abroad and the rising rates of Chinese knock-offs and other inexpensive (and dubiously built) components.

Today, one of the world's largest performance parts companies, known as Trust in Japan and Greddy here in the States, declared bankruptcy. According to various reports, Trust is approximately $60 million in debt and, after reporting a serious decline in sales since February 2008 and amassing $43 million in loan payments, filed for bankruptcy in Tokyo District Court.

Trust has been around since 1976, employs almost 200 workers and had been dealing in everything from CARB-legal exhausts to turbo systems when Greddy Performance Products was founded in the U.S. in 1994. There are several firms that will step up to fill the need of enthusiasts, assuming that Trust doesn't try to reorganize, but with the aftermarket industry down overall, we suspect this won't be the last time we'll here about a large tuner going under.

Japanese tuning firm Trust/Greddy declares bankruptcy - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/10/japanese-tuning-firm-trust-greddy-declares-bankruptcy/#comments)


"its because idiots who rather spend on cheap bullshit parts thats not even reliable" Bastards

[DMaxUSA]

Do you think it was 100% the fault of eBay crap, or could it be related to the decline in the import culture? I know 5 years ago we were RED HOT... but now things have seemed to settle down a little.

The "decline" of the import culture is all relative. What the U.S. market experienced was a rapid growth which was unstable (remember all those small businesses that took your money and ran). Its easier to see/feel expansion than it is to see the larger scale of the industry (such as when people always think that a car with turbo "feels" fast because of the push, versus an NA car that has a linear response). However, I do feel like the cheaper products out there have ruined the "culture" since no one has pride in their cars anymore (which brings me to remember, I once saw a modded NSX with fake Bride seats, and an NRG quick release.....*puke*)

When people start buying cheap knock off products, it REALLY means that particular person is supporting the destruction of the passion that built this industry. To me, buying knockoffs is a slap in the face to all the great people who started HKS, Greddy, Blitz, Apex'I, SuperMade, Yashio Factory, Work Wheels....the list goes on and on. What people dont realize is that all the great companies we love all started with 1, only 1, person's dream of racing. They REALLY were just like anyone of us...

A knockoff company's dream is to take all your money before their parts break.....

[japslapsilvia]

looking at the industury as a whole as well as the american culture, its all about the bottom line $$$...unfortunatly there are a lot of people that Cheap out and buy crap parts b/c they are initally cheaper, but in the long run end up costing more due to several factors, with that being said there are parts out there that u can possibly cheap out on (ie non functional etc). Greddy produces very high quality parts and i would hate to see them leave, but they also cheaped out when they produced the "m-spec" intercooler, werent those cheap chineese cores??? (i really dont know, so if im wrong please let me know) but that was probably in retaliation to the cheaper offering of "e-gay", i would rather see greddy fall than produce CRAP parts and tarnish the name that they have ovbiously worked very hard for. it will be a sad day if Greddy does go under...

[Teknolust72]

looking at the industury as a whole as well as the american culture, its all about the bottom line $$$...unfortunatly there are a lot of people that Cheap out and buy crap parts b/c they are initally cheaper, but in the long run end up costing more due to several factors, with that being said there are parts out there that u can possibly cheap out on (ie non functional etc). Greddy produces very high quality parts and i would hate to see them leave, but they also cheaped out when they produced the "m-spec" intercooler, werent those cheap chineese cores??? (i really dont know, so if im wrong please let me know) but that was probably in retaliation to the cheaper offering of "e-gay", i would rather see greddy fall than produce CRAP parts and tarnish the name that they have ovbiously worked very hard for. it will be a sad day if Greddy does go under...

Whether the M Spec core is from China or not, it met up to Greddy's standard of quality and performance, so I would expect it to be a good product.

Outsourcing is very common (in almost every industry); as long as there is great quality control, you will never have in issue.

[mateoo]

does this mean the products they had/have will be worth more ?

[SoSideways]

I don't know but I'm definitely hanging on to my GReddy Type R BOV damnit.

[mateoo]

shiettt, i got a front and rear greddy strut bar for s13..i mayy hold on to this as well..i was thinking of selling them

[japslapsilvia]

Whether the M Spec core is from China or not, it met up to Greddy's standard of quality and performance, so I would expect it to be a good product.

Outsourcing is very common (in almost every industry); as long as there is great quality control, you will never have in issue.


yea i completly agree with that, my point was that it would/could be a potential issue b/c once the "crap" mfgs see Greddy parts being cheaper their margin becomes thinner and they start offering even crappier parts to further under cut and gain market share....it eventually becomes a snow ball effect.

[ilia]

This is really simple...

All these asshats can continue buying knockoff bullshit until every REAL company goes out of business, but what happens then? Will Megan racing develop a turbo kit for you? HELL NO. Will RACEONUSA design new aero parts for your car? HELL NO. What happens when you need some R&D done, or you actually need something developed? The knockoff companies can't pay engineers, and they don't know what they're doing enough to develop parts on their own.

Good luck finding parts when everyone that did real work is out of business.

[mateoo]

they had an article in import tuner about veilside not making productions of new body kits because of the cheap knock offs

[SoSideways]

they had an article in import tuner about veilside not making productions of new body kits because of the cheap knock offs

You can just ask Brian H about it.

[boro otaku]

Watch as China moves on to put other companies worldwide out of business :(

It is difficult to go shopping these days & find something that is not made there!

[HyperTek]

its not wrong when american companies produce an alternative that might be more inexpensive... theres tons of quality good american stuff like battleversion etc..

distributor touge factory got thier own limitied edition enkies i figure they gotta be doing great to be recognized by enkie to make them a set *they sell you legit shit no knockoffs*
http://tougefactory.com/enkei/nt3.jpg

i remember spending $1600 on the sr20 motorset, $800 on a hks type s intercooler for my s13, $700 for the nismo 2way, $300 for the greddy profec b spec II, $280 something for the hks bov.. everything else might have been 2nd hand. and i was like 18-19 when i was buying those parts with my own money.. and spending like $300 on the bodykit because my friend owned his own company lol..

I dont know how i was able to afford that stuff at the time because im broke as hell now, i just know if i couldnt afford that stuff, i wont bother with imitation stuff ill just leave it stock lol. Nothing wrong with someone rocking a stock car.

I wouldnt mind my own body kit company, id actually work with fiberglass and hack this and that and make my own stuff that would follow japanese influence , but be original, then have it mass produced.. but then again, with bodykits, you have hte fear of people knocking it off..

Ive seen some bodykits that where made in vietnam, shit was very think and had holes in it, you could see thru it lol

Car modding should be done with passion and pride, not greed and attention.

[Brian]

they had an article in import tuner about veilside not making productions of new body kits because of the cheap knock offs


Hmmm, the new Bentley kits, Lamborghini kits, and Aston Martin kits definitly aren't making themselves....

[stiizy]

^ And i'm sure them shits are a grip!!

[Brian]

Yeah they are pretty expensive, but when you consider the price of the car itself, it is all relative.



also, we didn't stop producing kits.
Actually ,we updated a lot of parts to include a metal emblem to further prove authenticity.
It is difficult sometimes when certain companies that sell the fakes happen to refer their customers to to US when they have problems. That doesn't make any sense.

Also, it is interesting when one of the big companies that sells the fakes happens to deny it and have no idea that they sell fakes NOR do they have any idea they use pictures of the REAL demo cars AND parts.
Maybe they are even on zilvia....

[atom]

its not wrong when american companies produce an alternative that might be more inexpensive... theres tons of quality good american stuff like battleversion etc..

distributor touge factory got thier own limitied edition enkies i figure they gotta be doing great to be recognized by enkie to make them a set *they sell you legit shit no knockoffs*

LOL the touge factory guys are also behind version select so.............yeah.

[SoSideways]

LOL the touge factory guys are also behind version select so.............yeah.

And Stance, and Origin.

What's your point?

[cisco240]

This is really simple...

All these asshats can continue buying knockoff bullshit until every REAL company goes out of business, but what happens then? Will Megan racing develop a turbo kit for you? HELL NO. Will RACEONUSA design new aero parts for your car? HELL NO. What happens when you need some R&D done, or you actually need something developed? The knockoff companies can't pay engineers, and they don't know what they're doing enough to develop parts on their own.

Good luck finding parts when everyone that did real work is out of business.
Just wanted to add to add to this,
Will any of those cheap/knock-off companies make CARB certified parts? HELL NO.

[g6civcx]

America and most of the world has a legal system to protect intellectual property so companies don't lose R&D dollars. The problem is that most people do not know or care enough to find out about how to protect their products and services.

Get utility patents for all of your products and methods of use. Get design patents for the way your products look. Get trademarks for all of your logos. Copyright all of your literature.

Takes a bit of work but very worthwhile.

GReddy could be owning FReddy right now instead of being put out of business by knockoffs.

Anyone designing anything should think carefully.

[atom]

And Stance, and Origin.

What's your point?

1. He said about touge factory "*they sell you legit shit no knockoffs*".
2. I say they are also version select aka knockoff central
3. Therefore he is incorrect in saying no knockoffs

Was that not obvious enough?

[g6civcx]

There is no such thing as knockoffs if the item being knocked off is not being protected by some form of patent or trademark.

If you sell/publish something without legal protection, the design becomes public domain and anyone can use without having to pay you.


There is a legal system, however messed up it may be. Learn and work within that system or you will not survive.

[Brian]

....ahem, a certain Japanese seat company might know about this...

[SoSideways]

1. He said about touge factory "*they sell you legit shit no knockoffs*".
2. I say they are also version select aka knockoff central
3. Therefore he is incorrect in saying no knockoffs

Was that not obvious enough?

Sure.

But they also invested in stuff like the special edition wheels and brought Stance to all of us enthusiasts, so I guess you can say they put the money back into the industry, instead of closing shop and running off to the Caribbean Islands and using all our money for a long vacation.

[Bobafreak]

i know some of you say i will support x company here and the whole people making copys and ishhhh but what about the aero you buy? Is that ish legit? Just wanted to know.

[Brian]

as far as aero kits (especially with 240 folks)
I bet a good 70% of them have some kind of "fake" body kit

[dynamicck]

Great, now we'll end up with all the same shitty knock off pieces forever.
Little development will happen, because the companies who spend money on R&D just end up going bankrupt.

[Bobafreak]

It just comes to show though how the market is. Reason why it does come in handy to pay for products that cost alot and why. But now you see a big company like freddy go under you become now "omg what should we do". When before getting a fake type rs bov was all good.

Kinda like global warming.

[TOMKAIRA93]

Sucks to hear all this...I guess I'll be buying some Tanabe Made in Japan coilovers tonight as oppose to some other wannabe brand. I dislike cheap shit! I just hope they continue with the business even in a lesser scale, their parts rock!

[g6civcx]

as far as aero kits (especially with 240 folks)
I bet a good 70% of them have some kind of "fake" body kit

When you have two companies selling the same product, how do you determine which one is fake and which one is real?

There is no law being violated so there is nothing consumers can do except support the company you like and boycott the rest.

Since people are price-sensitive, what would you expect them to do? Pay more for the same product?

[SimpleS14]

OMG....when did TF get those limited edition Enkeis? Those are so hot!

i have heard from word of mouth that greddy declared bankruptcy in japan because they are moving their operations to the US.

Don't quote me on this but it's what i have heard. If this is true than we still have hope!

The dollar would have to tumble drastically to see this as a "cheap" and viable plan. It's just too costly and I highly doubt it will happen.

[ilia]

It is difficult sometimes when certain companies that sell the fakes happen to refer their customers to to US when they have problems. That doesn't make any sense.



We have that happen at my office every once in a while. Customers call us for support on a fake exhaust they didn't buy from us, and expect us to not be offended when they ask for warranty service or install instructions...

"Sir, I can't tell you how to install your fake muffler, because we don't sell the fake ones here. I have no idea how to install your fake part. It probably doesn't fit"

[Brian]

When you have two companies selling the same product, how do you determine which one is fake and which one is real?

There is no law being violated so there is nothing consumers can do except support the company you like and boycott the rest.

Since people are price-sensitive, what would you expect them to do? Pay more for the same product?


What are the companies that you are talking about?
What is the product you are talking about?

Give me a concrete example so I know what you're talking about.

[Matej]

The market has to adadpt to the consumer, not the other way around. If you see that not enough people are buying your product, it's your job to do something about it.
And trying to make the consumer feel guilty for not buying your product is just low.

[Brian]

We have that happen at my office every once in a while. Customers call us for support on a fake exhaust they didn't buy from us, and expect us to not be offended when they ask for warranty service or install instructions...

"Sir, I can't tell you how to install your fake muffler, because we don't sell the fake ones here. I have no idea how to install your fake part. It probably doesn't fit"

I've had people call me and ask if WE sell the fake stuff too...

come on, really?

[Bobafreak]

When you have two companies selling the same product, how do you determine which one is fake and which one is real?

There is no law being violated so there is nothing consumers can do except support the company you like and boycott the rest.

Since people are price-sensitive, what would you expect them to do? Pay more for the same product?

Yes if you want the company to stay around to produce different kits. Kinda like this Greddy situation. Greddy would have some kind of profit margin especially when it comes to all these fmic that have been selling. All the knock offs are the same form and design as the greddy design. Some of those who have this freddy design are even vendors on here!

[rb25_s13*CHUKI]

How can we boycott these fake bullshit companies? I've never once bought cheap shit for my cars.. EVER.. Parts that lay on my car are. Nismo,tein,Kazama,greddy,B&m,nismo(whole lot of nismo), Apexi,buddy club,... Sad to say I have one megan part:-/...

I really like greddy electronics!! Oh and my trust dd was the best exhaust I've ever used

[Brian]

Well, you can start by not buying the fakes on your own. thats really the only 100% thing you have control over.
the rest of the people.... thats the tough part.

[Bobafreak]

Well conclusion. The damage has been done. To avoid all this from happening, dont buy fake shit anymore and buy from companys who can provide good fitment, test it on their vehicles and are the ones who came with the concept. It may cost more but the results are better and will keep these companys around longer. Putting the fakes out of business. The end. Now i need to get my haircut. But now that we are on topic about fake shit.... Its kinda like the whole movie and song business notice cds were 9.99 now they are almost 20 bucks? Same shit.... Bootleggers. But if we were to actually support the bigger companys and not buy fake items im sure the price you complain about would be alot lower.

[g6civcx]

What are the companies that you are talking about?
What is the product you are talking about?

Give me a concrete example so I know what you're talking about.

Take for example the cheapest GReddy FMIC vs. FReddy FMIC. Both of these: a) look the same, b) have the same structure, and c) perform the same function.

Yes, the GReddy unit is higher quality; however, neither of these companies have patent protection on their products.

In the eye of the law, neither of these products are knockoffs. There is no intellectual property infringement unless you can prove that FReddy stole GReddy's trade secret.

If all FReddy did was buy a GReddy unit, shipped it to China, and had the same part made for pennies on the dollars, under current US law, FReddy did no wrong.


If you want someone to blame, blame GReddy for not having the forethought to patent its design. When you sell something in the open market without patent protection, you implicitly relinquish your design rights to the public.

Therefore, if I were FReddy's CEO, I would be doing the exact same thing. FReddy is operating within the boundaries of the law, and making money in doing so, as is evident with GReddy's announcement.


Your thoughts, please.

[SoSideways]

Take for example the cheapest GReddy FMIC vs. FReddy FMIC. Both of these: a) look the same, b) have the same structure, and c) perform the same function.

Yes, the GReddy unit is higher quality; however, neither of these companies have patent protection on their products.

In the eye of the law, neither of these products are knockoffs. There is no intellectual property infringement unless you can prove that FReddy stole GReddy's trade secret.

If all FReddy did was buy a GReddy unit, shipped it to China, and had the same part made for pennies on the dollars, under current US law, FReddy did no wrong.


If you want someone to blame, blame GReddy for not having the forethought to patent its design. When you sell something in the open market without patent protection, you implicitly relinquish your design rights to the public.

Therefore, if I were FReddy's CEO, I would be doing the exact same thing. FReddy is operating within the boundaries of the law, and making money in doing so, as is evident with GReddy's announcement.


Your thoughts, please.

So do you buy Freddy stuff?

Or Megan?

[Bobafreak]

Take for example the cheapest GReddy FMIC vs. FReddy FMIC. Both of these: a) look the same, b) have the same structure, and c) perform the same function.

Yes, the GReddy unit is higher quality; however, neither of these companies have patent protection on their products.

In the eye of the law, neither of these products are knockoffs. There is no intellectual property infringement unless you can prove that FReddy stole GReddy's trade secret.

If all FReddy did was buy a GReddy unit, shipped it to China, and had the same part made for pennies on the dollars, under current US law, FReddy did no wrong.


If you want someone to blame, blame GReddy for not having the forethought to patent its design. When you sell something in the open market without patent protection, you implicitly relinquish your design rights to the public.

Therefore, if I were FReddy's CEO, I would be doing the exact same thing. FReddy is operating within the boundaries of the law, and making money in doing so, as is evident with GReddy's announcement.


Your thoughts, please.

hes very right on that. thus the reason why most of these companys can provide a freddy due to that. Same thing about turbonetic and a t3/t4 turbo.

[Brian]

that is probably 100% right.
I agree.


However, I think some people on here would say ok.... thats just technical stuff.


It kind of makes me think of how some robbers get away with lawsuits against the people who oen THE home that they were trying to rob. Technicalities.

You know god damn well it isn't right but due to some laws, it becomes "okay"



i know car parts and what i just mentioned are totally different ballparksm but I'm just trying to give a different example.

[g6civcx]

So do you buy Freddy stuff?

Or Megan?

It depends on the product.

If one of these companies actually had any sort of patent protection, I would buy from the patentholder or the licensee.

Patents notwithstanding, I would buy the product that most fits my needs. If I want quality, I would buy brand names. If I want price, I would buy Megan.

Some parts I don't care about quality that much, like coilovers for a daily = Megan.

Some parts I care a lot about quality, like engine = factory with warranty.

It depends on the part and what I'm looking for.

[Brian]

.... I was looking at your original thought.
"which one is fake and which is real"


come on now. we all know which is fake and which is real.

if "F" took a "G" part, then copied it, we know damn well which is real and fake.
of course you would be right (i assume) about the law's technical terms.

[SoSideways]

It depends on the product.

If one of these companies actually had any sort of patent protection, I would buy from the patentholder or the licensee.

Patents notwithstanding, I would buy the product that most fits my needs. If I want quality, I would buy brand names. If I want price, I would buy Megan.

Some parts I don't care about quality that much, like coilovers for a daily = Megan.

Some parts I care a lot about quality, like engine = factory with warranty.

It depends on the part and what I'm looking for.

Ok.

So... you wouldn't lose any sleep over a company like GReddy going under, even though they have been the company that puts all their time and money into R&D on the products that other companies eventually copy and knock off, and will continue to support the knock off companies due to the fact that "the law said nobody knocked anything off"?

Because if that's what you're saying, that's pretty fucked up.

[DMaxUSA]

Why would anyone EVER want to skimp on quality? Sure you can be cheap, and say its for my daily driver, but I like to believe every 240SX should be honored and given the best treatment/parts.

Dont sell out on your S-Chassis, bad things happen to good companies when you do.....

[g6civcx]

that is probably 100% right.
I agree.


However, I think some people on here would say ok.... thats just technical stuff.


It kind of makes me think of how some robbers get away with lawsuits against the people who oen THE home that they were trying to rob. Technicalities.

You know god damn well it isn't right but due to some laws, it becomes "okay"



i know car parts and what i just mentioned are totally different ballparksm but I'm just trying to give a different example.

I don't understand your comments.

Why did GReddy not patent its design? Because if it did, none of this would be a problem.

Anyone coming close to selling GReddy products would get hit with a big multi-million dollar lawsuit, and would be enough to put all of these fly-by-night companies out of business.


I do not agree with your assertion that I think that this isn't right. I think it is absolutely right.

Our intellectual property system has been in place since the times of Thomas Jefferson, and they thought about all the issues discussed in this thread. If you say that the system is broken, then you're saying that the people who founded this country didn't know what they were doing.

If that's what you're saying, I hope you can back it up.


The solution is already there. We just have to use it. I blame GReddy for making bad management decisions in not filing patents.

[sub9lulu]

I don't know but I'm definitely hanging on to my GReddy Type R BOV damnit.

TiAL is better

[ilia]

If you want someone to blame, blame GReddy for not having the forethought to patent its design. When you sell something in the open market without patent protection, you implicitly relinquish your design rights to the public.


The problem with that is that the patent process is expensive, and will add an ADDITIONAL cost to Greddy's already expensive products. Enforcing the patent process, especially when dealing with international law, is also extremely expensive, and so hurts the consumer in the end.

Of course according to free market philosophy, Greddy should just compete, start outsourcing more, and offer cheaper products. Enforcing patent laws, or having certain morals about WORKER PAY or PRODUCT QUALITY forbids that, and basically takes Greddy out of the running.

That's why it's up to the consumer to cast their vote with their wallet, and not buy fake bullshit.

You think China or Taiwan gives half a shit whether the welds on your fake Greddy crack? Do you think the underpaid Chinese workers will shed a SINGLE tear when you die because your cheesy knockoff racing seat failed to protect you in an accident? Do you really think these knockoff companies CARE about what you, the customer do, when they run out of shit to fake?

They don't care. When it comes time to design a NEW turbo kit, or new ECU, who do you think is going to do it? Will China break out the Emanage? Hell no. Will they design an efficient intercooler of high quality, like ARC? No way.

[luftrofl]

*sigh* people still won't realize that buying knockoff shit is not only a dick move, but stupid.

Soon, we may have no choice but to buy from shitty brands like Megan Racing or Extreme Dimensions. Doesn't that sound like a fun future.

[Brian]

I'm pretty sure you're going to be on your own here.


(also, jeez, that was some terrible typing by me)

I'm pretty sure NONE of us know exactly why GReddy did not patent their designs.


If you will buy a fake (yes I called it fake. you KNOW exactly what I mean and so does everybody else here) product simply because it was made because the REAL company didn't file for a patent, then that is just plain wild.

[JeremyR]

i tore a hole in the ass of the guy who created the "project ebay" build on nic a couple of times, jsut again now when i found out about trust going under. heres a link to the thread. shit makes my sick. its full of fail and it makes baby jesus cry.

**Project eBay** (sorry 56k, no one loves you): 240SX Forum / 180SX Forum / Silvia Forum: Nissan Forums / Infiniti Forums - NICOclub (http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=335278)

ughh its jsut frustrating that these people hurt the industry they are trying to be apart of.

its like cutting your dick off.

i work my ass off to save moeny and buy quality parts. i fucking HATE all the losers with 240s in my area with ghetto ass fuck ebay cheap ass part shit FUCK.

i think the cheapest thing or closest to a knock off parts i would have is my ait b-magic body kit... buts its not a "style" body kit like others are advertised to be so am i in the clear guys? or flirting with danger? either way doesnt matter since it was already on the car when i bought and and will be replaced with something legit soon when i get my car painted.

[ilia]

Like I said, patenting costs money. So does chasing after every outsourced BS company faking your stuff. Spending money on that has to go somewhere, so the overall product cost would rise. Most of the market is ALREADY not willing to pay more than bottom dollar, so raising the costs with patents is hard to justify.

[Brian]

completly true.

[g6civcx]

come on now. we all know which is fake and which is real.

if "F" took a "G" part, then copied it, we know damn well which is real and fake.
of course you would be right (i assume) about the law's technical terms.

I disagree with your assertion that we know what is "fake" and what is "real".


The average consumer doesn't know or necessarily care which is which. They just see two things doing the same thing, and one is much cheaper than the other.

The free market system is set up to reward innovation. FReddy is rewarded for copying GReddy parts and producing them for less.

Since FReddy is successful, this is what the market wants. GReddy should have been selling cheap stuff a long time ago.


If you disagree with the way the market operates, then you need to insert more government control instead of letting market forces operate.

Is that what you want to do?


The way the system is set up is to promote innovations. What world do you think we would live in if nobody was able to re-use anything built before them?

We have to let people reuse other people's ideas in order to progress as a society. The Founding Fathers have juxtaposed the need for progress with the need to protect R&D, and have set up the legal system for us to use.

Again, all of these issues are not new and have been thought through very thoroughly by some of the greatest minds our country has to offer. Thomas Jefferson and Albert Einstein are some of the many who worked on this problem.

If you think you can do better, I strongly encourage you to try. Who knows. Maybe you can come up with something better.

How do you suggest we handle FReddy?

[SoSideways]

I don't understand your comments.

Why did GReddy not patent its design? Because if it did, none of this would be a problem.

Anyone coming close to selling GReddy products would get hit with a big multi-million dollar lawsuit, and would be enough to put all of these fly-by-night companies out of business.


I do not agree with your assertion that I think that this isn't right. I think it is absolutely right.

Our intellectual property system has been in place since the times of Thomas Jefferson, and they thought about all the issues discussed in this thread. If you say that the system is broken, then you're saying that the people who founded this country didn't know what they were doing.

If that's what you're saying, I hope you can back it up.


The solution is already there. We just have to use it. I blame GReddy for making bad management decisions in not filing patents.

GReddy was also not founded in the USA. I don't know how the laws in Japan are, but they are probably used to that.

Same thing with a certain seat making company.

Then there are always going to be people that will take advantage of situations like the one that the famous seat company and GReddy are in, and there will always be people like you who will trade honor and integrity in for an excuse of "well they should have patented their designs... etc.", while correct in terms of the laws, is very immoral and non-ethical, just so you can save a few bucks and have a basis to tell people not to give you shit for buying "knock offs".

Well, sorry, but some of us know right from wrong.

You can continue to support Megan Racing or any of the other knock off companies, since they're not knocking anything off legally, and you can also enjoy the technological stand still while someone else takes up the slack on spending their time & money on R&D for parts for our cars.

But hey, you do live in the USA and you do have the right to choose what ever you want to buy. Just don't expect people to agree with you when you tell them your reasons to buy fake or knock off are legit.

[g6civcx]

Like I said, patenting costs money. So does chasing after every outsourced BS company faking your stuff. Spending money on that has to go somewhere, so the overall product cost would rise. Most of the market is ALREADY not willing to pay more than bottom dollar, so raising the costs with patents is hard to justify.

How much money does it take to prosecute an average patent from start to finish? Then how much does it cost to prosecute an average infringement suit?

How do these numbers compared to gross sales?

Keep in mind that these are very simple mechanical inventions. Compared to some of the other more obscure classes of intellectual properties, I would say that legal cost in this case would be minimal.

[g6civcx]

So... you wouldn't lose any sleep over a company like GReddy going under, even though they have been the company that puts all their time and money into R&D on the products that other companies eventually copy and knock off, and will continue to support the knock off companies due to the fact that "the law said nobody knocked anything off"?

Because if that's what you're saying, that's pretty fucked up.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Companies that don't invest in intellectual property protection deserves to be at the mercy of market forces.

Blame the market.

[ilia]

The free market system is set up to reward innovation. FReddy is rewarded for copying GReddy parts and producing them for less.

Since FReddy is successful, this is what the market wants. GReddy should have been selling cheap stuff a long time ago.

Greddy's stuff is expensive because they pay ENGINEERS to DESIGN products. Knockoff companies just make a copy, and most of the time don't even care how exact of a copy it is.

You can talk about founding fathers all you want, but the factories in Taiwan, Korea, China, and Malaysia have NO regard for what your founding fathers wanted.

FReddy isn't being creative, it's ripping off someone's good work. When GReddy is no longer around to design parts for FReddy FREE OF CHARGE, the fake GReddy market will collapse, as parts will no longer be designed.



I'm not proposing more government control.

I'm suggesting that the consumer can be educated to control the market with their purchase.

I'm saying that it's time we teach consumers to not buy bullshit, and explain why.

I'm saying what most people in the business have been saying for years- stop buying fake crap if you want to continue having an aftermarket industry at all.

[SoSideways]

I nominate g6civcx to be the fake crap's lawyer.

[g6civcx]

GReddy was also not founded in the USA. I don't know how the laws in Japan are, but they are probably used to that.

Japan has a very well-developed intellectual property system.

But hey, you do live in the USA and you do have the right to choose what ever you want to buy. Just don't expect people to agree with you when you tell them your reasons to buy fake or knock off are legit.

Read this section again.

It depends on the product.

If one of these companies actually had any sort of patent protection, I would buy from the patentholder or the licensee.

Patents notwithstanding, I would buy the product that most fits my needs. If I want quality, I would buy brand names. If I want price, I would buy Megan.

Some parts I don't care about quality that much, like coilovers for a daily = Megan.

Some parts I care a lot about quality, like engine = factory with warranty.

It depends on the part and what I'm looking for.


You are very self-righteous to say what is right and what is wrong. I get to choose what I buy. If I want to buy GReddy, then I buy GReddy.

If I don't want to spend uber dollars on OMG JDM BBQ parts, then you can say what you want but ultimately it's my choice.

If you want to make a difference, change the system. What have you done lately to change a system you believe to broken? Everything else is just talk.

[Brian]

I'll be out of drifting and 240s soon.
thank god.

[SoSideways]

I'll be out of drifting and 240s soon.
thank god.

I'm with you on the drifting/240 thing.

Might move to China.

[Brian]

G6civcx - Nobody here is going to change your mind. That is clear. Continue to do whatever you want and BUY whatever you want. If it is a copy, go for it. If it is real, go for it.
YOU are just one of the reasons that this industry is crumbling.
thanks.

[g6civcx]

I nominate g6civcx to be the fake crap's lawyer.

I gladly take my money and go home and sleep at night. Hate the game :snoop:

YOU are just one of the reasons that this industry is crumbling.
thanks.

The INDUSTRY is the reason the industry is crumbling. Dumbass people who don't know the first thing about how to properly bring a product to market. Blame management instead of making excuses for them.

If their game was strong none of this would be a problem. If I were lead counsel for GReddy USA none of that FReddy crap would be sold anywhere. Sometimes people need to get their head out of their ass and manage the business instead of going to karaoke bars and get drunk.


Google, Microsoft, IBM, HP, etc. spend hundreds of millions each year protecting their products. Can they afford to protect their products because they are successful, or are they successful because they protect their products?

[ilia]

Unfortunately the Industry will always be made up of younger people with less business sense than Microsoft.

Until someone with the capitol of Microsoft steps in to run companies, they'll be managed by people just like you and I who just love cars. It's not a bad thing that people are out there following their passion and trying to bring good products to consumers, even if they don't know how to run a business as well.

All we can do is pitch in and try to help.


Or you can be a negative nancy and watch it burn instead.

[punkrico]

patents are very expensive first of all and very easy to get around. All you have to do is change the smallest thing and there you go its not REAL greddy design anymore its freddys new and improved design. Still ppl should respect the industry and buy stuff from the ppl that put their heart and soul into it. You also have to think of the market here in the US not everyone can afford greddy hks apexi etc. Most of the ppl that buy the freddy stuff are 16 yr old kids that work at McDs and just want to be "cool" thats my rant lol

[murda-c]

What about people who can't afford the expensive shit and see the cheap shit as getting them what they want for a price they are willing to pay?

I mean, not every low cost part is total junk.

Some of it is just people knowing how to shop and get what they want for the lowest price.

[atom]

The INDUSTRY is the reason the industry is crumbling. Dumbass people who don't know the first thing about how to properly bring a product to market. Blame management instead of making excuses for them.

If their game was strong none of this would be a problem. If I were lead counsel for GReddy USA none of that FReddy crap would be sold anywhere. Sometimes people need to get their head out of their ass and manage the business instead of going to karaoke bars and get drunk.


You're assuming a lot of things

1. They don't have any patents on anything.
2. They've never tried to protect their products from being knocked off.
3. It's financially worth it to litigate.
4. If they did go after Chinese companies making knockoffs, they could stop them. The movie industry sure tried to stop bootlegs in Asia and the bootleggers are still going strong.

I doubt anyone here knows the nature of patent/copyright litigation and enforcement in Asia so maybe everyone should stop jumping to conclusions. We don't even know if knockoffs were the main contributing factor to Trust going bankrupt.

Google, Microsoft, IBM, HP, etc. spend hundreds of millions each year protecting their products. Can they afford to protect their products because they are successful, or are they successful because they protect their products?

It's not mutually exclusive, so I would say it's both.

[ManoNegra]

How can we boycott these fake bullshit companies? I've never once bought cheap shit for my cars.. EVER.. Parts that lay on my car are. Nismo,tein,Kazama,greddy,B&m,nismo(whole lot of nismo), Apexi,buddy club,... Sad to say I have one megan part:-/...


If I remember correctly B&M copied C's design when they were first getting started.
This was years ago btw.
I remember people bitching about fitment and failing parts.
No real point to make, more of an afterthought.

Greddy's stuff is expensive because they pay ENGINEERS to DESIGN products. Knockoff companies just make a copy, and most of the time don't even care how exact of a copy it is.


I agree to a point but may I suggest
that perhaps JDM stuff is also expensive because
these are usually small companies that
make small product runs and probably outsource their
manufacturing?
Not too mention import costs and tariffs.
It's not always quality that makes parts $$$ is my point.

I see G6civcx point although it's a little harsh to swallow.
He's right.
Knockoffs exist because the market demands it. Simple.

I personally only buy quality parts.
That does not necessarily mean, nor it should, that I only buy JDM stuff.
Germans arguably make the best shocks around. So I want German shocks.
SPL makes top notch suspension arms, so I want SPL parts. etc. etc.


What about people who can't afford the expensive shit and see the cheap shit as getting them what they want for a price they are willing to pay?


Maybe harsh but if you're poor or broke
maybe modifying cars shouldn't be your hobby.
That's just my opinion.

My motto: quality parts regardless of label.

[cgtdream]

What the eff? This is some bull....the market gets flooded with POS parts and chit, dumbasses who continue to purchase said parts (which we all know is a hit or miss, still gonna waste as much money as saving for the expensive part crap) cause a good company like Greddy to go under and thus, we lose a chance to buy all the good stuff....i mean, dang not to sound selfish and childish, but crap, i wanted to build an all greddy 240...now its just gonna be harder...

[mav1178]

Everyone makes a lot of assumptions about what they THINK they know about the aftermarket industry, but in reality Greddy's debt has NOTHING to do with the situation in the USA in terms of fake products.

Greddy's debt is mostly confined to domestic operations in Japan (as was Apex'i and SSR a few years back).





It's rather amusing because a lot of people are jumping to conclusions on this matter.

-alex

[HyperTek]

When you watch the JDM Insider videos and they interview owners/heads of companies/shops,.. Ueno comes to mind, you see how passionate these people are about thier products. These are great videos by the way, i think Toshi is pretty cool. Good learning videos i think all these peeps should check out.. learn something about the tuning culture. And dont download the video, go buy it lol

[Teknolust72]

Even though this is a fun debate and all, please keep in mind that it is the PARENT company of GReddy/Trust JP that filed for bankruptcy. NOT GReddy themselves....

Furthermore, the U.S. market is comparatively small for the Japanese automotive aftermarket companies. Think about the number of vehicles available to be modified in Japan versus the U.S. So the negative effects of knock off products is usually restrained to that particular market.

So......my conclusion (which has always been my conclusion) is "Follow those who do it best". If Tomei is an awesome SR20 tuner, then I'm gonna go all Tomei. If Cusco knows suspension, then I'm gonna buy Cusco suspension...etc, etc, etc... These companies are at the top of their game because they are experts, and buying products from them pays them homage, and is more of a "Thank you!!! Please keep up the good work!!"

[Maxstyle]

It's all relevant. I'm sure the people that counterfeit products do play a role in Greddy not getting the funds they need to pay the overhead caused by the products they manufacture. I do believe that building a car should be a privalige. Something that after working hard for your money, you should enjoy. Thus striving for the best you can find. Although I myself am not a Greddy fan I respect there engineering and strive to be truely motorsport minded. I say give me a company that proves themselves on the track with times and finishes. That's the product I want on my car. Then i know my $ goes to people that will continue that dream and continue to make proven products. The point is Proof. I know plenty of Suspension companies that knock off other designs (KNOCK OFF AS IN REVERS ENGINEERED W/ INTENT TO REPLICATE) that don't even run their own product. I was not as fortunate as some to be able to get the parts i wanted. But I did not settle. It's like Wanting a Ferrari and buying a Fiero conversion car. It looks the same and drives, but you just don't get that level of performance. If a new company engineers their own product from scratch, that's different. Like Noble for instance.

[Avante]

The problem with that is that the patent process is expensive, and will add an ADDITIONAL cost to Greddy's already expensive products. Enforcing the patent process, especially when dealing with international law, is also extremely expensive, and so hurts the consumer in the end.

Of course according to free market philosophy, Greddy should just compete, start outsourcing more, and offer cheaper products. Enforcing patent laws, or having certain morals about WORKER PAY or PRODUCT QUALITY forbids that, and basically takes Greddy out of the running.

That's why it's up to the consumer to cast their vote with their wallet, and not buy fake bullshit.

You think China or Taiwan gives half a shit whether the welds on your fake Greddy crack? Do you think the underpaid Chinese workers will shed a SINGLE tear when you die because your cheesy knockoff racing seat failed to protect you in an accident? Do you really think these knockoff companies CARE about what you, the customer do, when they run out of shit to fake?

They don't care. When it comes time to design a NEW turbo kit, or new ECU, who do you think is going to do it? Will China break out the Emanage? Hell no. Will they design an efficient intercooler of high quality, like ARC? No way.

hey man. taiwan just makes parts that were outsourced. not knock off parts. thank china for that.

in fact, the light company, sonar, makes the vertex head lights, the wise square tail lights, and other OUTSOURCED items. they don't KNOCK OFF.

if they did, buddy club wouldn't be doing what they're doing with the taiwanese market.

[brndck]

i love my dd. and my m-spec intercooler. and my coolant swirl pot.
sux that any company on their level is having financial troubles.
but i agree that they should've taken steps to protect their ideas and products from being copied so blatantly.

[norcal_black240]

i love my dd. and my m-spec intercooler. and my coolant swirl pot.
sux that any company on their level is having financial troubles.
but i agree that they should've taken steps to protect their ideas and products from being copied so blatantly.

China could care less about a product with a patent haha. Ive even seen fake tide laundry detergent in china.

[SinisterSntra91]

I love greddy parts and I will spend the money for the brand and quality, I am not knocking them in anyway. Most of this is due to these knock off companies under cutting their prices I agree. But why cant Greddy be some what competitive with them? I understand they got to pay for the R&D and the quality of the parts blah blah blah. But if your not competitive you dont sell. They make their prices vs the under cutters night and day. For the posers who buy the parts its a no brain decision to buy the cheaper knock off parts. I mean under cutting is nothing new to any industry, but their is a reason why companies still thrive even with the existence of the knockoffs.

[Future240]

This thread reminds me of my roommate who bought this horrible ass body kit for his eclipse. It fits like ass. You can see the gap between his head light and the front bumper

[Brian]

If counterfit/knockoff/fake/copy products continue to be consumed, the import industry WILL be dead by March 2010.

FACT.

[sTalnOut]

Lets hope for the best and that it won't effect GReddy USA as much.... too those who buy knock off Please stopping buying from them.. so high quality product companys such as GReddy, HKS, TEIN, and others won't have to face these type of downfall. Its sad and very dissapointing what this market has come too..

[ChicagoS14]

This is indeed sad news. However you have to look at it from a different perspective as well. Its not just cheap knockoffs and the tuner scene going under, its the world economy as well as the fact that other companies exist. Lets look back a few years. Back in the day only a select few companies existed to provide products to a small customer basis. As tuning became bigger and popular these companies expanded, grew and became the large companies we know today as Greddy, Apexi, HKS, Blitz, etc. But as the trend of tuning cars became widespread and Japanese cars started to get tuned overseas more and more companies began producing high quality parts for such cars.

As we reached the highlife of import tuning both in Europe, Australia and America we had the rise of other companies including small businesses that built their own intercoolrs, turbokit etc. So now we have a diminishing market with too many companies.

[xrockoutx]

A lot of these larger tuning companies are spreading themselves too thin in working on parts for every make and model and every aspect of the the vehicle. when joe bob's local shop only specializes in SR20 valve trains. Due to the fact that joe bob only does valve trains he's going to eventually cut costs and materials used here and there and be one of the BEST when it comes to valvetrains, but greddy with their lack of focus are spreading their resouces too thin. You need to specialize in one field or as many fields as are profitable and when competition comes gauge the value of your services and see if the other guys are doing a better job for less money. At a certain point you will need to call it quits in certain aspects of the tuning field because someone somewhere is doing it as good or better for less. Economics got the better part of trust/greddy.

[ryguy]

I don't believe that the price difference between Greddy and Freddy is SO HUGE because of engineering. How hard is it to engineer a strut bar? I refuse to believe that the $200 price difference between Greddy and Freddy has anything to do with quality and engineering. I refuse to believe that an extra $125 goes into engineering a downpipe. It's a fucking bent tube. I just think Greddy could have been more competitive with their prices. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.

[zaquanh]

I don't believe that the price difference between Greddy and Freddy is SO HUGE because of engineering. How hard is it to engineer a strut bar? I refuse to believe that the $200 price difference between Greddy and Freddy has anything to do with quality and engineering. I refuse to believe that an extra $125 goes into engineering a downpipe. It's a fucking bent tube. I just think Greddy could have been more competitive with their prices. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong.


you need to read up and learn so much about parts manufacturing , hahaha , dude go find all the post on fake greddy products , read up , china parts ruin companies , always have

[ryguy]

you need to read up and learn so much about parts manufacturing , hahaha , dude go find all the post on fake greddy products , read up , china parts ruin companies , always have

Then outsource that shit TO china. Fuck, reputable American companies SLASH costs doing this, and their shit is still quality. I am not defending Freddy, I buy used quality shit, but cmon, its called competition. Greddy isnt the first company to encounter it. Imagine if the first company to make TVs was never copied, imagine if there was only ONE company in the whole world who could make them because they thought of the idea first. Imagine if Mercedes Benz was the ONLY car company in the world. After all, Ford and Chevrolet were just cheap knock offs of that good high quality European shit.

[mav1178]

I find it amusing that people talk about parts made in China and Taiwan as if there were no quality attached to parts manufactured there.

Greddy's Type-S suspension kits are made at the same factory as Apex'i coilovers... which are the same factory that makes Megan.

The difference? Extra QA and tested specs put in.





But you are all still missing the point. Selling of "copied" parts in the US really did not make a huge impact on Trust Japan's debt situation. When AEM saw declining sales in the US they cut their staff by 2/3 over the past couple of years.

In Trust/Greddy Japan's case, it is poor management and an inability to manage debt in the face of declining sales. They might be $43 million in debt, but it is not because their company is worth less than $43 million. It is a cash flow issue, an inability to raise cash through sales and defaulting on loan payments.

It's like having credit cards. You can max out all your accounts, but as long as you pay the minimum credit card companies won't do a thing to you. The moment you default payments, they will raise your APR and (depending on the level of risk, etc.) demand immediate payment of the entire balance in full. Once you reach the tipping point, you (as an entity) seek bankruptcy protection.

If this makes no sense to you, continue talking about Greddy/Freddy/Albert/Sanchez/Hans/Peter real/fake/copy products.

The import industry (and any industry in general) have certain trends that it will follow. Businesses that do not adapt well to them will suffer, as will any corporation that does not control spending and manage debt well.

-alex

P.S. One can clearly see the decline in the quality of Greddy's products... I sold a Greddy turbo extension for SR about 2 months ago, and the flange was absolutely HORRID. I compared it to a Megan turbo elbow, and was surprised that the Megan flange was actually of a better quality and finish than the Greddy unit. I noticed also that the flange was of a slightly different design ... and one can only assume that there is another supplier supplying Greddy with the flanges for the turbo elbow. Much like many other components that Greddy sold in the past (Spec-M/LS intercoolers, etc), many components in Greddy's product line is outsourced to third party manufacturers, and the quality has been steadily declining over the past few years.

[sentiumprogram]

I blame California laws that virtually makes people like me feel like I cant modify my car. So I wont buy stuff just to keep my car legit. California laws on cars ultimately ruin commerce

[Matej]

Maybe "real" companies should also offer cheap lines of products, like bad-fitting aero and lopsided pulleys, so even if I'm buying cheap I'm still buying from them, while others will have the choice to buy the more expensive models and gloat over me.
But seriously, a successful business should know how to adapt, it's all about demand.
Also, there are many corporations that have filed for bankruptcy, yet are still around, so I guess we'll see what happens with Greddy.

[1five10]

Even though this is a fun debate and all, please keep in mind that it is the PARENT company of GReddy/Trust JP that filed for bankruptcy. NOT GReddy themselves....

Furthermore, the U.S. market is comparatively small for the Japanese automotive aftermarket companies. Think about the number of vehicles available to be modified in Japan versus the U.S. So the negative effects of knock off products is usually restrained to that particular market.

So......my conclusion (which has always been my conclusion) is "Follow those who do it best". If Tomei is an awesome SR20 tuner, then I'm gonna go all Tomei. If Cusco knows suspension, then I'm gonna buy Cusco suspension...etc, etc, etc... These companies are at the top of their game because they are experts, and buying products from them pays them homage, and is more of a "Thank you!!! Please keep up the good work!!"

I agree with you 100%. However, most people on this forum can't afford to "follow those who do it best."

If you look at the demographics of the 240 scene, 16-25 year-olds make up probably make up 90% of the whole scene. If you don't believe me, check out the next event or meet that you go to. Most 16-25 year-olds, their 240 is their daily and only car. For the most part, they are still in school or just finishing school or just a lazy loser, and don't have the liquid assets to buy name brand stuff. They are just looking to get buy with whatever is cheap and works well enough to get them by and that's why they buy the fakes and knock-offs.

Haven't you noticed that it's the older 26+ year-old guys have the most hooked-up 240's, which is probably also their 2nd or 3rd car. Mainly because they earn more and have extra $$$$$ to spend on the name brand stuff.

Fakes and knockoffs will continue to strive in any industry because people support them by buying their shit.

Remember all that buy "American Made" campaigning going on. It's cool being all politically correct and a supporter of the country we live in, but it all comes down to $$$$$$$. People buy what they can afford.

[S14DB]

Sorry, if you are making $58million in a bad year. You have enough money to patent your products and defend them. It does not cost the money you guys are eluding that is costs.

Customs is seizing tons of stuff that is copyrighted/patented/trademarked. Those company's actually took the time to protect their assets.

Their Intake Manifold, Oil Pan and Diff cover were unique designs. I think they would have had no problem patenting them. Turbo outlet, Many company's make and hard to say that greddy was the first.

As far as them being in Japan. They do have a US office. Getting US patent protection should have been the first thing they did.

I dunno why you people are getting mad at g6civcx. He is explaining to you how the business world works. Don't shoot the messenger.

I can't think knock offs are the whole reason. Industry has been in a down turn for the last 5 years. I don't see many 240 products featured by them anymore. 350z, GTR, S2000, EVO, STi are all on the front page. There are already many established company's that make those parts. COBB, AMS, Crawford...

I think people are modding less and less now as compared to years past. New cars are already coming out hopped up and there are diminishing returns with parts. There are also a lot more legitimate company's out there with their own niche. People are leaning more to specialty company's for their vehicle then an all inclusive brand like Greddy or HKS.

Knock-Offs are a parasite but, not the only factor in the decline.

[supportTHEezln]

I further that thought...
I worked in the BMX industry for a few years, and when a new product would come out that improved just enough on a design and was able to be patented, it would be. And BMX companies make FAR less than automotive companies.
Greddy not patenting their products is just stupid. And blaming the cost is just funny in this situation.

[slider2828]

DUDE COME ON EVERYONE! Trust/Greddy hasn't been coming out with quality products for the longest time. Even Japanese Tuners don't use their product very often. Their flag ship product the emanage ultimate and now the bla bla touch is just junk. All the tuners now that. Their cams aren't that great and their stuff although good can be made cheaper. They failed to change with the time and they just got owned. THat is business I know because I and others work in this industry and can chime in.

There are a lot of companies doing well BECAUSE they thought even more about the products. COBB Tuning for one is doing very well and J's Racing Japan and maybe a handful of others... Its business... Trust me EVERYONE who is in the aftermarket industry wants to make good product but people #1 are buying egay stuff or #2 COME ON the automotive industry is crap in general. Its just the time whether if we want to believe it or not. Heck Megan Racing, Circuit Sports isn't doing bad either.

Thirdly, the Automotive manufacturers are not encroaching on the aftermarket industry. Look at the EVO or STI's drives well good HP and bla bla bla out of the box. No real need to work on the car just driver skills. There are less and less low end sports cars cause people just with a practical mind don't think about sports cars. Hence why Honda is doing well because S2K's are well priced and awesome with reliability and driving.

Don't blame the knockoffs, they saw it coming and they didn't hedge against the market well enough. Even HKS is moving more to quieter and 'greener' exhaust systems that actually make the car burn cleaner and better electronics to save gas WHILE not in performance range.

I guess you haven't heard either but its about 4 years ago Nismo was restructured and cut everyone out and it was a flat rate discounting. Oh wellz not the first time...

[rb25_s13*CHUKI]

If I remember correctly B&M copied C's design when they were first getting started.
This was years ago btw.
I remember people bitching about fitment and failing parts.
No real point to make, more of an afterthought.



I agree to a point but may I suggest
that perhaps JDM stuff is also expensive because
these are usually small companies that
make small product runs and probably outsource their
manufacturing?
Not too mention import costs and tariffs.
It's not always quality that makes parts $$$ is my point.

I see G6civcx point although it's a little harsh to swallow.
He's right.
Knockoffs exist because the market demands it. Simple.

I personally only buy quality parts.
That does not necessarily mean, nor it should, that I only buy JDM stuff.
Germans arguably make the best shocks around. So I want German shocks.
SPL makes top notch suspension arms, so I want SPL parts. etc. etc.




Maybe harsh but if you're poor or broke
maybe modifying cars shouldn't be your hobby.
That's just my opinion.

My motto: quality parts regardless of label.


Do you know how long B&M has been around? My dad talks about B&M back when he was younger and building his cars.. B&M Is nothing fake.. C's Is total crap..

[illvialuver]

r this industry (how many of you guys love the DD exhaust....) I do, and I have it on my s14.

Iwould much rather wait to buy parts than be impatient and buy knock off, because it does hurt the industry.

[ryguy]

r this industry (how many of you guys love the DD exhaust....) I do, and I have it on my s14.

Iwould much rather wait to buy parts than be impatient and buy knock off, because it does hurt the industry.

Because Greddy invented the exhaust, right? You CANNOT argue that buying a Freddy exhaust hurts Greddy.

[HalveBlue]

Simple market correction.

Granted I don't the details of what's going on at GReddy. I doubt anyone here does.

But if I had to take a wager I'd say that knock off parts are the least of their worries.

As has already been mentioned, bad management, a downturn in the global economy, and market saturation are probably what has lead to GReddy's current state of affairs.

Japanese companies have a tendency to follow bad management practices, which, while respectful towards Japanese social attitudes, make them uncompetitive on the international market. It's a sad, hard reality.

Even Nissan was on the verge of bankruptcy a couple of years ago for the same reasons. The only thing that saved them was the heavy investment by Renault and Ghosn's corporate restructuring.

Hell, I remember looking at a major JDM parts manufacturer's English website and half the stuff was unintelligible. As amusing as Engrish is, that is horrible marketing.

The US is the largest automotive market in the world. The heavy reliance of Americans on the automobile coupled with relatively large disposable incomes should indicate to any company that America is a gold mine for automotive parts.

Somehow, a lot of JDM companies, GReddy included have failed to capitalize on that.

My $0.02. Don't get butt hurt.

[koukikat180sx]

So everytime you guys think about buying some cheap crap from ebay, thinking you can always upgrade later, well thats not always the case...If you really have pride in your car, buy QUALITY parts, and support the companies that have supported the scene since the beginning.

I hope the rumors are false, but if they are true, lets all hope that Greddy will pull through and continue to be around....

so true!!!! i hope greddy can pull through this as well!

[Brian]

Mr Alex Chang doesn't come out of the blue for many things.

I'm glad I could get you out here.

:)

[SoSideways]

Mr Alex Chang doesn't come out of the blue for many things.

I'm glad I could get you out here.

:)

Seriously, I was gonna say the same thing.

Mr. Alex Chang coming out of nowhere to drop the bomb on us.

How've you been man? Haven't seen you around since the days of spending hours and hours on FA, and you sort of just disappeared.

[drift freaq]

I find it amusing that people talk about parts made in China and Taiwan as if there were no quality attached to parts manufactured there.

Greddy's Type-S suspension kits are made at the same factory as Apex'i coilovers... which are the same factory that makes Megan.

The difference? Extra QA and tested specs put in.





But you are all still missing the point. Selling of "copied" parts in the US really did not make a huge impact on Trust Japan's debt situation. When AEM saw declining sales in the US they cut their staff by 2/3 over the past couple of years.

In Trust/Greddy Japan's case, it is poor management and an inability to manage debt in the face of declining sales. They might be $43 million in debt, but it is not because their company is worth less than $43 million. It is a cash flow issue, an inability to raise cash through sales and defaulting on loan payments.

It's like having credit cards. You can max out all your accounts, but as long as you pay the minimum credit card companies won't do a thing to you. The moment you default payments, they will raise your APR and (depending on the level of risk, etc.) demand immediate payment of the entire balance in full. Once you reach the tipping point, you (as an entity) seek bankruptcy protection.

If this makes no sense to you, continue talking about Greddy/Freddy/Albert/Sanchez/Hans/Peter real/fake/copy products.

The import industry (and any industry in general) have certain trends that it will follow. Businesses that do not adapt well to them will suffer, as will any corporation that does not control spending and manage debt well.

-alex

P.S. One can clearly see the decline in the quality of Greddy's products... I sold a Greddy turbo extension for SR about 2 months ago, and the flange was absolutely HORRID. I compared it to a Megan turbo elbow, and was surprised that the Megan flange was actually of a better quality and finish than the Greddy unit. I noticed also that the flange was of a slightly different design ... and one can only assume that there is another supplier supplying Greddy with the flanges for the turbo elbow. Much like many other components that Greddy sold in the past (Spec-M/LS intercoolers, etc), many components in Greddy's product line is outsourced to third party manufacturers, and the quality has been steadily declining over the past few years.

Alex, pretty much sums it up perfectly. You could not have said it better Alex and I wholeheartedly agree with you. Thank you for a excellent post.

[DOOK]

damn... long time no see from that guy... I also agree...

dare I say, with all the money being dropped into Rota and the like, they too will one day have decent R&D and good quality???? Every reputable company started somewhere, yes?

[mRclARK1]

I find it amusing that people talk about parts made in China and Taiwan as if there were no quality attached to parts manufactured there.

Greddy's Type-S suspension kits are made at the same factory as Apex'i coilovers... which are the same factory that makes Megan.

The difference? Extra QA and tested specs put in.





But you are all still missing the point. Selling of "copied" parts in the US really did not make a huge impact on Trust Japan's debt situation. When AEM saw declining sales in the US they cut their staff by 2/3 over the past couple of years.

In Trust/Greddy Japan's case, it is poor management and an inability to manage debt in the face of declining sales. They might be $43 million in debt, but it is not because their company is worth less than $43 million. It is a cash flow issue, an inability to raise cash through sales and defaulting on loan payments.

It's like having credit cards. You can max out all your accounts, but as long as you pay the minimum credit card companies won't do a thing to you. The moment you default payments, they will raise your APR and (depending on the level of risk, etc.) demand immediate payment of the entire balance in full. Once you reach the tipping point, you (as an entity) seek bankruptcy protection.

If this makes no sense to you, continue talking about Greddy/Freddy/Albert/Sanchez/Hans/Peter real/fake/copy products.

The import industry (and any industry in general) have certain trends that it will follow. Businesses that do not adapt well to them will suffer, as will any corporation that does not control spending and manage debt well.

-alex

P.S. One can clearly see the decline in the quality of Greddy's products... I sold a Greddy turbo extension for SR about 2 months ago, and the flange was absolutely HORRID. I compared it to a Megan turbo elbow, and was surprised that the Megan flange was actually of a better quality and finish than the Greddy unit. I noticed also that the flange was of a slightly different design ... and one can only assume that there is another supplier supplying Greddy with the flanges for the turbo elbow. Much like many other components that Greddy sold in the past (Spec-M/LS intercoolers, etc), many components in Greddy's product line is outsourced to third party manufacturers, and the quality has been steadily declining over the past few years.

All true. Some unfortunately.

I think this is a symptom of a larger happenning. The whole industry is going, I don't want to say under, but in a new direction. A lot of people just can't afford to play the game anymore and it's showing in the declining quality of what we're seeing throughout the entire automotive aftermarket industry. LOTS of good quality merchandise is still available, but it may be somewhat of the exception now rather than the rule. The decline in Greddy products was noticeable. Haven't bought any for a couple years, but friends have and a comparison of similar parts was all that was needed. :-/

Like he said, all industries have trends, I think the trend of what was known popularaly as the whole "import scene" and craze around it has passed for the most part. Maybe not in front of the mall and the high school, but at least in the circles where things count. When trends and crazes fade, the suppliers and companies who made their bank from said trend or craze invariably suffer. It's happenned many times before. Doesn't mean they'll go away, but just think about in 10-20 years? I would bet only the true die hard fans are still doing this but still providing a niche in the market for companies of quality like Greddy etc.

[drift freaq]

damn... long time no see from that guy... I also agree...

dare I say, with all the money being dropped into Rota and the like, they too will one day have decent R&D and good quality???? Every reputable company started somewhere, yes?

Yes and in fact a lot of you may not know this, because you were not alive. There was a time, when made in Japan, meant cheap ass crap, that fell apart. I kid you not. Japan, did not just start out making quality cars, or parts. They built shit, that rusted away and fell apart. Though, after years of manufacturing and working on improving their quality control, products got better. Then they had success and with the success, the cost of manufacturing in Japan rose dramatically. Ahem, the U.S. story all over again.

What happened? They started outsourcing. Then, Taiwan stepped into the picture. I can remember when Taiwan steel meant crap. Today, Taiwan has a incredibly efficient steel industry, turning out real quality.
In fact, almost all of your major bicycle companies frames, are assembled in Taiwan and guess what, they are quality.

Now, we have Korea and China. Same thing is going on once again. A lot of you guys are jocking the New Hyundai Sports car coming out.
Wow, you say Hyundai to me and I just sit there and think about all those shitty ass Hyundai Excels, that came out in the late 80's early 90's.
That just fell the fuck apart within two years.
What happened? Hyundai got better, today from what I hear they are making a excellent product. Fuck me, I can't own a Hyundai because of what I remember. Though you guys will buy it and like it and not even realize.

The only difference, in all of this and this is not related to Trust/Greddy, is the one Country that has not followed rules, both financially and legally is CHINA. Guess what folks?
They are a Communist country, that adopted Capitalist economic policies for one reason! Economic survival. Though they are still a Totalitarian state. Which basically breads corruption.
So you have piracy/forgery, knock off products, unfair trade practices. They tie the Yuan to the U.S. dollar to remain competitive in the manufacturing world. They only let it float a little bit recently but still have strict controls over that. Is it competitively fair? No. Do they care? No as long as we keep on basing our own manufacturing there, because guess what?
Americans have gotten very use to having cheap goods real cheap goods to the point that a lot of you will not pay for the quality.

Oh and I should add Japan practiced unfair trade practices in the Automobile market to sell their cars here. They were guilty of price dumping in the American market. I.E. selling there cars for cheaper here than they do in Japan to increase sales in the bigger U.S. market. They made it extremely hard for U.S. Automobile companies to sell cars in Japan as well. G.M. and Ford as well as Chrysler were not allowed to open their own dealerships. They had to sell through a Japanese Automobile company and it drove the price of American cars through the ceiling.
Now fact is Americans were falling in quality but the Japanese people did want some American cars, though they were way to expensive.

In a nutshell Japan is just coming out of a close to 20 years recession based partly on fucked up business practices themselves. Its not surprising Trust Japan mismanaged shit. The same type of shit nearly sank our beloved namesake Nissan in the late 90's. It took a outside company and a shrewd smart Frenchman to change that. LOL and I am not a big fan of the French or French business practices, but my hat tips big time to Mr Ghosn for a phenomenal job and turn around at Nissan.

In the end piracy and knock offs are a problem but they are not completely killing the aftermarket industry. They are several factors attacking the aftermarket industry, many that have already been stated in this thread. Read, realize and act.

[mav1178]

I didn't write what I wrote because I feel one way or another, frankly the import industry (specifically those companies we buy from and those companies that supply our cars with parts) is run by a bunch of people with little/no management experience.

Domestic industries are stronger because they, essentially, have old people working in there that have years of management experience, that know a thing or two about changing economic conditions.

Case in point: earlier this year, Greddy cut every dealer's discount by 15% in the US. Tein did the same thing in April, except they raised MSRP by about 15% across the board. The results:

- Tein products are more expensive, but because discount rates are the same, the % a retail customer pays is still same relative to MSRP, so people have the illusion that they still are getting the same type of "deal".

- Greddy products are more expensive, but because the discount rate was cut and MSRP stayed the same, the retail customer pays more relative to MSRP, and people have the illusion that they are getting a worse deal than before.






In the face of declining sales, Greddy currently has a sale where dealers pay close to previous discount levels until 10/31. What they SHOULD have done was revise MSRP to reflect additional cost, not cut discount rates.

This is just my opinion of their practice, I am no expert on it, but given the situation in the economy it is ALL ABOUT MARKETING and the perception of quality and (in the case of people who are frugal) "getting as good of a deal as you can get".

Lots of companies finance operations with debt. Every publically traded company operates in this manner. The difference is that bank loans, once defaulted, equal (almost immediate) bankruptcy.

-alex

[mav1178]

How've you been man? Haven't seen you around since the days of spending hours and hours on FA, and you sort of just disappeared.



Pretty good, just super busy with work and a whole lot of other things in life.

-alex

[mRclARK1]

Yes and in fact a lot of you may not know this, because you were not alive. There was a time, when made in Japan, meant cheap ass crap, that fell apart. I kid you not. Japan, did not just start out making quality cars, or parts. They built shit, that rusted away and fell apart.

"Jap crap" is what my grandfather always used to say.

[ryguy]

Yes and in fact a lot of you may not know this, because you were not alive. There was a time, when made in Japan, meant cheap ass crap, that fell apart.


"Jap crap" is what my grandfather always used to say.

It's like the scene in Back to the Future where the 1950s Doc is trying to fix the time machine and sees the parts were made in Japan and says "No wonder this circuit failed. It says "Made in Japan"."

Although, my mom had a 1965 Toyota Corona, and she said it was the best car she ever owned.

[DALAZ_68]

this sucks...

it hurts mainly when u decide to hold off on buying lunch, and buying anything that can be fun (booze, lap dances etc...) just to save for 1 part thats worth getting ....


ill be honest im a worker bee fuck... but were theres a will there is a way, i bust my ass to save money and save and save...i wanna be one of the few who takes pride in my car...

dare i say, yes i bought a Megan Dual tip exhaust,only reason being is because its not a part that moves, would i trust there coilovers/arms/anything else, nah never...

ill save my pennies and make the originators of zilvia, and all REAL car enthusiast a real clean set up...

it sucks to see a great company go down like this....especially when im in the middle of still deciding wheter to go E manage ultimate :eek3d:

shit sucks man

[PRADOgy]

Do you guys see how much the American Support is worth..?


especially for japan.

[Neejay]

Official news (from someone in Japan) is that they were denied the claim.

[irax]

The only difference, in all of this and this is not related to Trust/Greddy, is the one Country that has not followed rules, both financially and legally is CHINA. Guess what folks?
They are a Communist country, that adopted Capitalist economic policies for one reason! Economic survival. Though they are still a Totalitarian state. Which basically breads corruption.
So you have piracy/forgery, knock off products, unfair trade practices. They tie the Yuan to the U.S. dollar to remain competitive in the manufacturing world. They only let it float a little bit recently but still have strict controls over that. Is it competitively fair? No. Do they care? No as long as we keep on basing our own manufacturing there, because guess what?
Americans have gotten very use to having cheap goods real cheap goods to the point that a lot of you will not pay for the quality.

Unfortunately all your OEM parts are being made in CHINA, and there are Original Equipment Market parts too.. There are tons of brands coming out copying the OEM name and making parts. The problem is China, I was talking to my friend who works at Greddy about this the day the news came out, and honestly it's not JUST the freddy intakes out there, it's also poor management. EVERY make and model since 2002 and newer has something from china in the car. EVER LAST ONE! So the knock offs aren't entirely to blame for the the downward spiral. Besides when it's the trend in Japan to buy knock offs because their cost of living is sky high, I'm sure they would rather eat better and buy knock offs than to starve on shitty ramen cups for 4 months than buy legit. I honestly would rather have the parts made in Mexico than in China if I had a choice.

[exitspeed]

Looks like Greddy USA is not going to be effected by this.

UPDATE: Greddy in U.S. still good to go - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/12/update-greddy-in-u-s-still-good-to-go/)

Did someone already post this?

[dubtastic]

^ Well if that's the case, it's the enthusiasts in Japan who continuously bought cheap ebay aftermarket?

[RiversideS13]

Unfortunately all your OEM parts are being made in CHINA, and there are Original Equipment Market parts too.. There are tons of brands coming out copying the OEM name and making parts. The problem is China, I was talking to my friend who works at Greddy about this the day the news came out, and honestly it's not JUST the freddy intakes out there, it's also poor management. EVERY make and model since 2002 and newer has something from china in the car. EVER LAST ONE! So the knock offs aren't entirely to blame for the the downward spiral. Besides when it's the trend in Japan to buy knock offs because their cost of living is sky high, I'm sure they would rather eat better and buy knock offs than to starve on shitty ramen cups for 4 months than buy legit. I honestly would rather have the parts made in Mexico than in China if I had a choice.

What is your proof? i would think some parts were from Taiwan because they have stronger manufacture standard and competition.

[DMaxUSA]

^ Well if that's the case, it's the enthusiasts in Japan who continuously bought cheap ebay aftermarket?


I think the biggest hit to the aftermarket in Japan was the strict JASMA regulations and the difficult SHYAKEN process. Greddy, which I would assume makes the most sales with exhaust goods, has to always redesign their products to meet new regulations. And since customers in Japan think they wont pass regulations, they stop modifying their vehicles. Much like how some of us here are hesitant to do motor swaps in California.....

[blitzkrgCT9A]

I can't believe folks blame China for knock offs or having lead in their products. How about blaming the companies that turn to China for their mass production products. China is just smart for taking their business, their technology and making money. Let's face it, China is coming up, coming up fast and giving everyone a run for their money.

[SlideWell]

Unfortunately all your OEM parts are being made in CHINA, and there are Original Equipment Market parts too.. There are tons of brands coming out copying the OEM name and making parts. The problem is China, I was talking to my friend who works at Greddy about this the day the news came out, and honestly it's not JUST the freddy intakes out there, it's also poor management. EVERY make and model since 2002 and newer has something from china in the car. EVER LAST ONE! So the knock offs aren't entirely to blame for the the downward spiral. Besides when it's the trend in Japan to buy knock offs because their cost of living is sky high, I'm sure they would rather eat better and buy knock offs than to starve on shitty ramen cups for 4 months than buy legit. I honestly would rather have the parts made in Mexico than in China if I had a choice.

i think the military has gotten to you man. a lot of name brand parts are made in china contracted through japan to be produced under their standards. its nothing new, its been going on for years and i would hope your buddy, like my business associate, has been there to see for himself. its nothing to look down on, just a fact of life where people can produce things cheaper and get the same quality control. can you imagine if all the things we still love were actually still made in japan? i wouldnt be able to afford half the things i have. my macbook pro...made in china, all of em are, and $3300 was a lot! i couldnt pay more. knock offs are a totally different arena. i do not support rip off's of other products. ive always bought top of the line parts and electronics etc. i believe Trust has always made excellent products, but on the other hand, how much did they really spend advertising...everywhere i looked there they were. its good to know greddy usa wont be affected if thats correct.

[sub9lulu]

i hope hks and the others are fine

[Future240]

i hope hks and the others are fine

I said the same thing, someone said they might be in trouble as well

[ryguy]

^ Well if that's the case, it's the enthusiasts in Japan who continuously bought cheap ebay aftermarket?

Japan doesnt buy cars period anymore. It is literally becoming unpopular to be seen in a car. Both new and used car sales in Japan have been tanking, so it only makes sense that people won't be modifying cars they don't have. The Japanese are content with a bus pass, they'd rather have the newest cell phone or some shit like that.

[SlideWell]

Japan doesnt buy cars period anymore. It is literally becoming unpopular to be seen in a car. Both new and used car sales in Japan have been tanking, so it only makes sense that people won't be modifying cars they don't have. The Japanese are content with a bus pass, they'd rather have the newest cell phone or some shit like that.

good to know you live in Japan, and have visited there, and know so much about them. :cj:

[ryguy]

good to know you live in Japan, and have visited there, and know so much about them. :cj:

I don't live in Japan, but I can fucking read. Some people actually pay attention to the news.

http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=19738

http://www.designophy.com/article.php?id=1593

A survey last year of 1,700 Japanese in their 20s and 30s by the Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Japan's biggest business newspaper, discovered that only 25% of Japanese men in their 20s wanted a car, down from 48% in 2000. The manufacturers' association found that men 29 years old and younger made up 11% of Japanese drivers in 2005, roughly half the size of that group in 1993.
Nissan designers interviewed 16-to-20-year-olds four years ago in Japan, the U.S., Europe and China to grasp how cars fit into their lives. They were surprised to find that many youths world-wide felt cars were unnecessary and even uncool because they pollute and cause congestion, Mr. Bancon says. The feeling was particularly strong in Tokyo, where computers and Internet access are widely available and where mass transit is inexpensive and reliable -- making the car makers' predicament worse here than in many other parts of the world.so suck my balls. Just because you don't live somewhere doesnt mean you can't have half an idea about whats going on there.

[SlideWell]

I don't live in Japan, but I can fucking read. Some people actually pay attention to the news.

and you believe everything you read in the news and media? travel a bit more before you make judgements about other peoples culture.
im half persian and there are plenty of people that would talk shit about my family and people back in my 2nd home, but theyve never been there...so think about that

[ryguy]

and you believe everything you read in the news and media? travel a bit more before you make judgements about other peoples culture.


I'm not passing judgment on the Japanese culture, I am just stating fact. Read that 2nd article, it has actual facts and figures used by Nissan in their market research.

[S13SilviaGirl]

Japan doesnt buy cars period anymore. It is literally becoming unpopular to be seen in a car. Both new and used car sales in Japan have been tanking, so it only makes sense that people won't be modifying cars they don't have. The Japanese are content with a bus pass, they'd rather have the newest cell phone or some shit like that.

That is not true. The Japanese LOVE their cars. But, gas is fucking expensive out there. They ride the train a lot, and yes, it is more time and cost efficient...


The statement that it is unpopular to be seen in a car is just ASININE!!!! Try sitting in Tokyo traffic to get to work...that is why they take the train. You think it is unpopular to be seen in a daily driver that is a fucking Lambo or a Ferarri? Yep. It is SO uncool!

Explain to me why they all have new cars on a regular basis. Explain to me all of the modified cars there....why did they import the 300C and all the American cars over there? Oh yes....they are embarrassed being seen in a CAR!

They even have a knight rider car club out there....they are FREAKS over cars....all of the Auto Salons, all of the Car festivals. One every december just for Nismo. The TAS is the biggest in the WORLD. I do not get your sense of logic, or lack thereof.


I don't live in Japan, but I can fucking read. Some people actually pay attention to the news.

Japan Used Auto Sales Down for 29th Month in Aug. (http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=19738)

Japan's Young Won't Rally Round the Car (Designophy, www.designophy.com) (http://www.designophy.com/article.php?id=1593)


so suck my balls. Just because you don't live somewhere doesnt mean you can't have half an idea about whats going on there.


First off, if you have NEVER lived there....don't ASSUME. Yep, media spins shit out of control. Second, don't ask anyone to "suck your balls" unless you truly want another man to do so.....and when you only have that half of an idea of what is going on...you are missing the other 50% of reality... keep reading into the media and let them tell you how the world really is. :duh:

and you believe everything you read in the news and media? travel a bit more before you make judgements about other peoples culture.
im half persian and there are plenty of people that would talk shit about my family and people back in my 2nd home, but theyve never been there...so think about that


^ What he says. One should never pass judgment or assume how a culture is, and how things really are. :smash:

[ryguy]

Ouch, I just got burninated.

:bite:

I'm sorry, now that somebody with experience has invalidated that article, I'll go to my corner now. Sorry guys.:hide:

[S13SilviaGirl]

Ouch, I just got burninated.

:bite:

I'm sorry, now that somebody with experience has invalidated that article, I'll go to my corner now. Sorry guys.:hide:

Ok that was funny....but seriously. You are 19, you have a lot of learning and experiences to go through in life. Reading and believing the media is something that should be taken with a grain of salt.

[SlideWell]

ryguy, i cordially invite you to Tokyo Auto Salon next year. join us.

[ryguy]

ryguy, i cordially invite you to Tokyo Auto Salon next year. join us.

haha that would be awesome. I haven't really been able to put my four years of Japanese class to good use yet. How much is it to go to Japan again? lol

[SlideWell]

haha that would be awesome. I haven't really been able to put my four years of Japanese class to good use yet. How much is it to go to Japan again? lol

it was only about $800 last year. i suspect prices to reach $1000 next year due to fuel prices.

[S13SilviaGirl]

Don't forget, good CocoIchiban food, BikkuriDonkey, and a hotel...train tix ect. Oh and good japanese drinks!


Thennnnn there is the parts you will want to buy at TAS, and the 100Yen umbrellas because it will freaking rain on the AS weekend. It always does.

[SlideWell]

Don't forget, good CocoIchiban food, BikkuriDonkey, and a hotel...train tix ect. Oh and good japanese drinks!

3-5k is enough, well, 5k if ur a raging alcoholic :dead:

[irax]

What is your proof? i would think some parts were from Taiwan because they have stronger manufacture standard and competition.

in the years of 2004-2007 I worked at a MAJOR parts distribution company

OEM parts are being made in china, OEM replacement parts are made in china. Companies come up with different acronyms for OEM just so they can break into that market. It doesn't really matter where the parts were made IF there is a strict quality control, but China has shown it's true colors. In case you have forgotten back in FEB. candies that were made over seas came here with shards of glass. Or a couple of months ago when there was EXTREMELY high amounts of floride and radiator fluids in our tooth pastes.
Don't tell me China isn't trying to kill us or make us more stupid.

i hope hks and the others are fine

HKS is having problems as well....

i think the military has gotten to you man. a lot of name brand parts are made in china contracted through japan to be produced under their standards. its nothing new, its been going on for years and i would hope your buddy, like my business associate, has been there to see for himself. its nothing to look down on, just a fact of life where people can produce things cheaper and get the same quality control. can you imagine if all the things we still love were actually still made in japan? i wouldnt be able to afford half the things i have. my macbook pro...made in china, all of em are, and $3300 was a lot! i couldnt pay more. knock offs are a totally different arena. i do not support rip off's of other products. ive always bought top of the line parts and electronics etc. i believe Trust has always made excellent products, but on the other hand, how much did they really spend advertising...everywhere i looked there they were. its good to know greddy usa wont be affected if thats correct.

If I had it my way I would be in my 6th year in the Marines (I know dumb huh?) but unfortunately(or fortunately) due to a back injury I had received when I was a kid I'm blessed with civilian life.

I'm not saying all parts in China are horrible quality, but because of their unfair business practices and detest of USA I find it questionable.

I have seen both the good sides and bad sides of having products in China produced. My friend owns a surf board company and all the boards are made in china, but they are freaking amazing! each made on a 5 axis laith or what ever but they are rock solid and CHEAP! And I worked as an IT at a local computer firm and we were having cases made in china, the 5 samples were great, but after that we got 1000 cases that were made by blind people who didn't care, shit one of the cases had a FINGER in it.

Greddy USA is affected but will remain strong to continue to give great support and products.

I would rather know a crafts man who loved and devoted his life to his job and pay more for a product, but the problem is that option isn't always available. I mean it's like eating out, you can go to McDonalds and eat a burger and fries and drink , OR you can go to a restaurant and get a BETTER burger, fries, and a drink. For some reason mexican food is the opposite, the cheaper it is, the better it tastes? I don't know why.

[Silverbullet]

I thought Greddy was top of the line material that everyone bought. Kind of like a rival to hks.

That does not say a whole lot. HKS is far from a large company. I forget exact figures, but HKS' annual revenue is equivalent to APC's in just a matter of months.

Theres no use in blaming replica parts. There is always competition in business. If there weren't, they would be a monopoly. If the top company can't compete with a lower end company, they just aren't doing it right.


VV I read this from a distributor. Greddy is fine. VV
This reorganization will have little, if any effect on GReddy Performance Products Inc., USA. GReddy assures its customers that it has ample inventory of all products for the U.S. market, and there are no production delays on new and current product lines coming from Japan. GReddy looks forward to exhibiting at the 2008 SEMA Show in Las Vegas, NV in its 20’ x 40’ booth, and will have three new project vehicles and new 2009 products on display. Representatives from both GReddy USA and TRUST Co. LTD Japan are attending the SEMA Show to answer questions about the reorganization and future plans for the company to retain its dominance in the sport compact market segment for the next 30 years.

Stated GReddy Performance Product’s Kenji Sumino, “TRUST Co. LTD Japan has filed for bank protection in order to restructure. This does not affect GReddy Performance Products USA at this time. In fact, we are working on plans to assist TRUST Co. LTD Japan during this process in every way we can. We have more than adequate inventory to sustain us until TRUST Co. LTD Japan returns to full production capabilities. As more information becomes available, we will release it to the media.”

[VQMaxFan]

hrmm, dunno if this is a reputable source

Beyond The Dyno » Greddy USA - Chapter 11 Filing (http://jdm-insider.com/Blogs/Eric/?p=1073)

[Neejay]

hrmm, dunno if this is a reputable source

Beyond The Dyno » Greddy USA - Chapter 11 Filing (http://jdm-insider.com/Blogs/Eric/?p=1073)
Pretty reputable, taken from the horse's mouth:

Greddy - Founded and Driven by Racers (http://www.greddy.com/news/?id=61)

http://www.greddy.com/news/greddy101008s.jpg