track ride height.

[tru180sx]

was wondering how low are most of your track cars..pics please
slammers welcome:naughty:

[HaLo]

When I had my 240sx, I wasn't lowered that much. The geometry gets way too messed up...

[spool_sample]

What are you referring to when you mean "track car"?

For a "grip" setup, the car should just be low enough to make the control arms horizontal, which, on an S14, is about a finger gap all around.

If it's a drift car, just put the thing on the ground. Fuck it.

[!Zar!]

Yup, arms level is where I'd suggest starting.

[YoungGun]

What are you referring to when you mean "track car"?

For a "grip" setup, the car should just be low enough to make the control arms horizontal, which, on an S14, is about a finger gap all around.

If it's a drift car, just put the thing on the ground. Fuck it.
Agreed .

[tru180sx]

yea, drift cars! yea planning to slam the bitch but wanna hear zilvia's input.

[s13silady]

yea, drift cars! yea planning to slam the bitch but wanna hear zilvia's input.

no need for the input if you already planned to slam it.

[240trainee]

no need for the input if you already planned to slam it.

Yea, I make my car work

but it's far from optimum.

Do what you want, decide what your priorities are.

[derek_s13]

Do what you want, decide what your priorities are.

Do what you want, decide what your priorities are.

Do what you want, decide what your priorities are.

Do what you want, decide what your priorities are.

^^^
moral of the story.


slammed = probably not optimum suspension geometry (240)
4 inches off ground = probably not the coolest your car can look

figure out priorites. build car to spec. enjoy.

[honeybadger]

Most people assume lower = better but its not really true... I find a setup that is only slightly lower than stock works best for me (s2000)

[babowc]

my s2k is slammed..
under 1 finger gap front..

i need to adjust it.
it rubbed off my liner and i'm scraping everywhere.
:/

s2000s are low already from the factory too.. lol.

[Def]

Most people assume lower = better but its not really true... I find a setup that is only slightly lower than stock works best for me (s2000)

Which isn't really helping this guy out with his S chassis at all....


I keep my S13 at a little over a 1 finger wheel gap, which puts the LCAs about parallel with the ground(maybe sloping up just slightly). I wouldn't want to go any lower.

[tru180sx]

Which isn't really helping this guy out with his S chassis at all....


I keep my S13 at a little over a 1 finger wheel gap, which puts the LCAs about parallel with the ground(maybe sloping up just slightly). I wouldn't want to go any lower.
thanks, any noticable changes? also, what degree of camber do you run in the back and up front.

[Def]

Noticeable changes from what?

I've been changing around the suspension quite a bit lately, don't know the exact alignment specs, but I'd estimate the camber is probably about -3.5 deg front and -2.5 rear. That's just real rough and comparing to my stock E36 M3 parked next to it that's at the stock -1 deg front and -2.25 deg rear.

[Matej]

Don't listen to any of that technical jibba jabba foooo.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3277/2622970946_bf5601c654_o.jpg

[McRussellPants]

Hankook S15 is on the floor and its faster than any other S chassis in the world.


done.

[Def]

Hankook S15 is on the floor and its faster than any other S chassis in the world.


done.

I seriously doubt they have LCAs, so I don't know if that's such a good example.

Sure, the lower your CG is the better, but only if other "bad things" aren't going to become "more bad" faster than your lower CG becomes "more good."

I toned down the technical jibba jabba. :fart:

[pete240]

just out of curiosity would it be possible to just get adjustable LCA's so you can get the roll center back into spec at your desired ride height? If that were the case wouldn't height not matter in that sense or am I forgetting something more important.

[luftrofl]

just out of curiosity would it be possible to just get adjustable LCA's so you can get the roll center back into spec at your desired ride height? If that were the case wouldn't height not matter in that sense or am I forgetting something more important.

splparts, battle version, ikeya formula... there may be more.

[Def]

just out of curiosity would it be possible to just get adjustable LCA's so you can get the roll center back into spec at your desired ride height? If that were the case wouldn't height not matter in that sense or am I forgetting something more important.

Height doesn't matter with correct geometry until you start banging your wheels into your chassis. That point probably isn't that far down below the point where your LCAs are parallel with the ground.

[240trainee]

i seriously doubt they have lcas, so i don't know if that's such a good example.


wat??????????

[Brian]

http://assets.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Mike%20Garrett/BH_Style_S14/BHS143.jpg

[SoSideways]

wat??????????

I think he meant like "I don't know if they have aftermarket FLCAs".

[finalimport]

ride on the floor, the lower the better

[Sileighty_85]

Go Big or Go Home

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/Neil_85/VFSH1240.jpg

LOLZ

[!Zar!]

http://www.bowtieclassic.com/BigBoy/ChrisDonk002.jpg

[Full-Lock]

http://media.ziptied.com/members/files/2/FOrmula%20D%20bh.jpg

true american performance height

[tru180sx]

just slammed my car. about a two finger gap....love it...thanks zilvia.will post pics up soon. late

[hotlavaflow]

I'm not super slammed about 1 finger in the front and 2 in the back (only because my fender isn't rolled yet and my tires are shredding as it is). Once the fenders are rolled I'll put it to 1/2 finger front/1 finger rear.

[sldbyuramg]

Go Big or Go Home

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/Neil_85/VFSH1240.jpg

LOLZ

HELL YES! is that a Fabtech lift kit?

[allntrlundrgrnd]

woooo truckin

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1302/889106936_75fec99458.jpg?v=0

[Bubbles]

It's a car, just put the thing on the ground. Fuck bitches.


I concur.


-Bubbs

[articdragon192]

This low. It's a car. I drive it for fun.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/ArticDragon192/Streets%20of%20Willow/IMG_8906.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/ArticDragon192/Streets%20of%20Willow/IMG_8905.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/ArticDragon192/Streets%20of%20Willow/IMG_8904.jpg

[McRussellPants]

Sure, the lower your CG is the better, but only if other "bad things" aren't going to become "more bad" faster than your lower CG becomes "more good."


Theory vs Practice.

[Maximamike]

Eh? Blah blah after market everything.. <3 Mspeed GTR.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff53/dhel_too/1stplace_timeattackMspeedGTRa.jpg

[The ROMAN]

I actually noticed a huge difference when I first slammed the car. Speeds at which the car would previously grip around turns turned into massive oversteer. Also Ackerman gets messed up, whoever he is.

[Def]

Theory vs Practice.

Exactly my point. I've had my car lower, it felt like the car was generally "unhappy" when driving fast. In fact, it still doesn't feel as easy to drive as something super fast from the factory like a 997/new M3 or something like that.

If you really don't care that the car starts getting slower when lowering it beyond a point, then slam away, but IMO that goes against the whole point of actually modifying your car. If you just want to look cool, why not just put it on airbags? Although I suspect lots of the younger crowd on here modifies their car according to what they think other people think is cool.

[macidcrook]

Exactly my point. I've had my car lower, it felt like the car was generally "unhappy" when driving fast. In fact, it still doesn't feel as easy to drive as something super fast from the factory like a 997/new M3 or something like that.

If you really don't care that the car starts getting slower when lowering it beyond a point, then slam away, but IMO that goes against the whole point of actually modifying your car. If you just want to look cool, why not just put it on airbags? Although I suspect lots of the younger crowd on here modifies their car according to what they think other people think is cool.


amen.

i know it been said a bunch of times but just cause its low doesnt mean its faster. most of the time attack cars have a completely modified pick up points, arms, joints, pivots and everything else thats accociated with the suspension. that mspeed GTR has almost nothing oem on the suspension.

[Flybert]

Yeah, i spy centerlock te's which means it has custom spindles. Anyone have some suspension pics of that car? Love it.

[McRussellPants]

Exactly my point. I've had my car lower, it felt like the car was generally "unhappy" when driving fast. In fact, it still doesn't feel as easy to drive as something super fast from the factory like a 997/new M3 or something like that.

If you really don't care that the car starts getting slower when lowering it beyond a point, then slam away, but IMO that goes against the whole point of actually modifying your car. If you just want to look cool, why not just put it on airbags? Although I suspect lots of the younger crowd on here modifies their car according to what they think other people think is cool.

did it actually get slower?

a fast car isn't nessicarily easy to drive.

[Def]

did it actually get slower?

a fast car isn't nessicarily easy to drive.

It sure felt like it, and my ass-lap-timer is actually pretty good after autocrossing for a few years.

I don't see how a car with the same suspension that has a change and gets much harder to drive can be faster. That'd have to be some magic change that made the car much faster despite the fact that you're not able to get as close to the limits.

[macidcrook]

did it actually get slower?

a fast car isn't nessicarily easy to drive.

i think that was the case in the 70s and 80s. not today. most of the cars i work on and around are super easy to drive. it takes a good driver to make it go faster.

any suspension bind is bad. even alittle. with a strut car like s chassis its easy to get that.

[YoungGun]

Whoring this picture so hard.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b304/cruizer123/alhambrashoot.jpg

[NI_YON_Zenki]

amen.

i know it been said a bunch of times but just cause its low doesnt mean its faster. most of the time attack cars have a completely modified pick up points, arms, joints, pivots and everything else thats accociated with the suspension. that mspeed GTR has almost nothing oem on the suspension.

& You know this exactly. .. .How? Just by looking at an image?
You not only accepted your associates information here, but you've dropped any original knowledge of your own merit. many attack cars still to this day implement stock components. The only time these parts are typically changed, to lighten the chassis, make proper adjustments and implement wider tires.

MSpeed has a very provocative "new" GT-R but go look at Mines, or MCR. or talking to much here! just go research.

[NI_YON_Zenki]

It sure felt like it, and my ass-lap-timer is actually pretty good after autocrossing for a few years.

I don't see how a car with the same suspension that has a change and gets much harder to drive can be faster. That'd have to be some magic change that made the car much faster despite the fact that you're not able to get as close to the limits.

What limits do you speak of exactly?

[NI_YON_Zenki]

i think that was the case in the 70s and 80s. not today. most of the cars i work on and around are super easy to drive. it takes a good driver to make it go faster.

any suspension bind is bad. even alittle. with a strut car like s chassis its easy to get that.

Could you explain your suspension bind. what is that exactly? are you speaking of multiple suspension components that are not cooperating with one another, or are you speaking on suspension locking itself together due to inaccurate dial-in to the springs, coilover?

[KansaiDrifter]

I'd suggest not going that low to be honest, most chassis engineering books and whatnot actually say not to go too stiff with the springs and not to go too low with the ride height, but rather they believe in super stiff sway bars instead, since that's what's actually supposed to improve handling.

If you do plan on slamming the stuffing out of the silvia chassis, I believe it's Powered by Max, they're a sponsor of this site, and they have arms and bars for your purpose, they are designed to fix the geometry for super slammed cars, (they are orange in color parts)

yeah hope that helps :2f2f:

[KansaiDrifter]

Could you explain your suspension bind. what is that exactly? are you speaking of multiple suspension components that are not cooperating with one another, or are you speaking on suspension locking itself together due to inaccurate dial-in to the springs, coilover?

I think what he's referring to is when you get a literal bind in the bushings from bad angles and whatnot, it's the bushings where your arms and bars are are twisted and have a lot of resistance, I do know that the stock bushings are horrible that way, so do think about upgrading to some polyurethane ones like energy suspension to get away from binding.

if it's not sorry haha, but that's what I know as binding.

[racepar1]

I try to keep the LCA's pretty much level. Check out my pic gallery for pics, I'm too lazy. I'm lowering it another 1/4" in the front and 3/8" in the back before the next corner weight and align.

[NI_YON_Zenki]

I think what he's referring to is when you get a literal bind in the bushings from bad angles and whatnot, it's the bushings where your arms and bars are are twisted and have a lot of resistance, I do know that the stock bushings are horrible that way, so do think about upgrading to some polyurethane ones like energy suspension to get away from binding.

if it's not sorry haha, but that's what I know as binding.

Yeah. I concur, it was just in the manner that he wrote that gave me a bit of confusion depicting his exact difficulty with suspension. I can regard certain parameters with suspension lateral stiffening with suspension stiffening. suspension is tightened based on traction, typically within the FF racing world, High power FR, and AWD parameters, more or less High performance production, lamborghini primarily to keep things easy. Stiff lateral components have to do with keeping all wheels on the ground when moving through apexes equally at high rated speeds. when camber is brought in to that equation, the undercurrent (wind) will catch an unequal level of camber, and actually assist in pushing the car outward (understeer) as you are trying to induce oversteer. Sorry for not covering exerpts from experts, but this would become some other shit!

Here is a shot of my street setup (( Camber Toe & caster All at zero ))
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/Busted_lips/Backshot.jpg

[Flybert]

So much misinformation in this thread being spread by Kansai Drifter.

PBM parts do not correct suspension geometry. Their arms are unique in the fact that they are designed to bend around the subframe and chassis when the car is super slammed.

As for adding polyurethane bushings to a lowered car, this actually helps to increase binding since the bushings are forced to flex to extreme angles when the car is lowered a lot. You'll notice this when you go to install adjustable arms on an extremely lowered car. Ideally you would want spherical bearings pressed into the rear uprights but we all can't be ballers like that. For cars that are ridiuclously low, I'd stick with stock rubber bushings in the rear uprights because they flex more and will allow the shock to rebound properly. I just installed polyurethane bushings in my rear arms but my car isn't that low so they aren't binding too much.

& You know this exactly. .. .How? Just by looking at an image?


Can you not see the center lock hub?

i think that was the case in the 70s and 80s. not today. most of the cars i work on and around are super easy to drive. it takes a good driver to make it go faster.

any suspension bind is bad. even alittle. with a strut car like s chassis its easy to get that.

Does this car look easy to drive to you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAZtJVSjHKI

[McCoy]

My car isn't that low, mostly because the 275 RA-1's stick out past the front fenders by a good 1/2". Car is still fast enough around the track and eats up most car in the braking zone/corners...

http://www.sr20forum.com/gallery/data/959/aug_08_track_day_240.jpg



For cars that are ridiuclously low, I'd stick with stock rubber bushings in the rear uprights because they flex more and will allow the shock to rebound properly. I just installed polyurethane bushings in my rear arms but my car isn't that low so they aren't binding too much.
Actually, ride height shouldn't matter, as long as you loosen/retighten the uprights after you set your height, you'll have the same amount of bind. Problem is that most people induce bind into the suspension by lowering the car without loosening/tightening the uprights.

[LB.Motoring]

http://i35.tinypic.com/1zz2gwi.jpg

[zaquanh]

http://assets.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Mike%20Garrett/BH_Style_S14/BHS143.jpg


sorry to thread jack real quick but what kit is that



ps slam it , but know how to drive , feel comfortable with it , some people slam there cars then dont know what to do when there on the street and blow up oil pans and fuck up cars lol

keep it as low and u can drive it i think , personaly ill slam it and slow down to 1 mph to go over shit in the street or around it lol

[Brian]

Version Select Type 1

[racepar1]

Actually, ride height shouldn't matter, as long as you loosen/retighten the uprights after you set your height, you'll have the same amount of bind. Problem is that most people induce bind into the suspension by lowering the car without loosening/tightening the uprights.

You don't have to do that with urethane bushings as they have a metal sleeve in the center of the bushing that is not attached to the urethane so it can pivot. With stock bushings on the other hand......

If you really take the time and look at most time attack, race, and professional drift cars they are not slammed. Most of the time they bring the bodywork down to the ground rather than lowering excessively through the suspension. The cars that are lowered excessively with the suspension have tons of money into re-locating the pick-up points and full custom arms. Slamming your car with stock LCA's and control arm pick-up points decreases the perfprmance of the suspension. That is an in-arguable fact. For track you want to keep a moderate ride heighth so that 1: your suspension geometry stays OK and 2: you keep as much compression travel as possible.

[tru180sx]

You don't have to do that with urethane bushings as they have a metal sleeve in the center of the bushing that is not attached to the urethane so it can pivot. With stock bushings on the other hand......

If you really take the time and look at most time attack, race, and professional drift cars they are not slammed. Most of the time they bring the bodywork down to the ground rather than lowering excessively through the suspension. The cars that are lowered excessively with the suspension have tons of money into re-locating the pick-up points and full custom arms. Slamming your car with stock LCA's and control arm pick-up points decreases the perfprmance of the suspension. That is an in-arguable fact. For track you want to keep a moderate ride heighth so that 1: your suspension geometry stays OK and 2: you keep as much compression travel as possible.
sounds right.....