help me...240sx or GSX?

[LOwrestling2001]

Hi,
i got my turbo integra stolen recently, so i'm looking into a new car. Basically, i have come down between two cars...240sx (with sr20det swap, suspension and what not) or an eclipse GSX. Now i understand there might be some bias this being a 240 forum, but try not to be if u can. I honestly think a 240sx will outhandle a gsx, but how much worse in handling is a gsx? 240sx = good handling, good potential as an overall car, pretty ugly though and the interior isn't too hot. GSX = ?? handlin??, very very good power potential, comfortable, and i think it looks decent. I plan to hit up the road course often like i did before, and i'm lookin for the superior track car. let's see ur opinions. also, assume that for suspension they would have similar setups (can't compare apples to oranges)...either nimble light rwd...or awd turbo monster..haha

[logo20]

it's hard to answer your question because you didn't tell what the year of the cars you're comparing. I will assume 95-98 240, and 96-99 eclipse. if you go for the 240 you gonna be spending more money to make very fast. About handling, I drove a gst, it handle pretty goood but not as fun as my 240.
And to say this about a 240 is just wrong "pretty ugly though and the interior isn't too hot" :mad:

[SR240SXT]

Well, a GSX is real nice, but it is so rare to find a decent one for sale. It seems to me that nissan makes a lot better products than mitsubishi, but thats an opinion. As far as handling, the 240 had a 50/50 weight distribution ratio, can't get any better than that, but I'm not sure how the AWD setup on the GSX compares to it. Assuming you want a 97-98, you could probably get the car and the swap for the same price as a stock GSX of the same year or a little newer. At that point they would probably perform the same in the 1/4, in the 14's I believe. I know I'm showing my bias when I say I think a 97-98 240 looks better all around and has more presence than a GSX, but I had to throw it in there. As far as suspension goes, I heard the eclipses are a bitch to get a good suspension setup on there, and they cost tons of money. Another thing, if you got a GSX, you could never peel out, never drift, or anything like that. 240s can do that all day long. Just something to think about, hope I helped some.

[LOwrestling2001]

good replies guys lets get some more hehe...
well yea...for a 240 i was lookin at a 95 because it'd cost like 5-6 G's...then swap the motor, fuel management, FMIC and all that junk and turn up the boost, then i'd have to toss on some like JICs hehe and azenis. That would end up costing well a good i'd say 13 thousand? w/o exact calculations...oh about the interior, i guess it's just cuz it's an older car, i dunno hehe. i like the look of the 97-98 s14s, but just not worth the money when i could toss on an s15 front.

a gsx...i'd want a 97+ (bodystyle)...and yea i just question the car's handling ability, cuz dsm's are so cheap to make fast and awd power. yea i want to learn drift but certainly not a priority, i just want a good handling car...and i've heard so much junk about DSMs and their crappy handling, but at the same time i've also heard gsxs w their awd handle well.

good point about the 50/50 weight distrib ratio...and the 240 is a lot lighter, i'm just wondering how much more nimble it is than the gsx...considering that the gsx, for the money, will out run the 240 on the straights.

[West]

Hmmm... actually do a search :) Its been covered before by me and many others.


http://www.zilvia.net/rides/zilviacars/ZCarsChurch1.jpg

[-E-]

one thing you should know is that Mitsubishi's have weak transmisions. I had two Mitsubishi's and both times I had to change the transmisions :mad: just something you should know

[thelinja]

On the subject of handling, the GSX isn't all that great, I've seen a few in action at both of the autox's I went to last fall and I was hardly impressed, sure they were fast on the straights, but they did horrible in slaloms and hairpins, too much understeer. They were getting spanked by NA RX-7's and several other V6 american RWDs. I was at the same corner working with the guy that owned a GSX. He was in STX and said his car would run high 12's at the track, but his car wasn't that great for autox, he had eibach suspension too. So I'd say the 240SX outhandles the GSX. And if you think the 240SX is ugly, then why do you want one? I got mine because I thought it was one of the hottest cars I have ever seen. And if you do get the SR motor, the GSX will NOT outrun the 240SX on the straights.

EONE's right too, I believe the Trannies are actually made by Hyundai, at least the 3000GT tran is..

[LOwrestling2001]

well i want the 240 mostly cuz of 50/50 weight distribution, RWD...good potential...and when i'm inside the car i don't see the outside anywayz :) i would consider slappin on an s15 front tho i like how those look hehe (but that'd be the last thing). i guess i was just questioning myself, but it looks like i'll be goin w a 240...but still more opinions and suggestions are always welcome.

[/etc/shadow]

DSM cars are horrible for reliability. Be prepared to spend all your money repairing it.

Besides, I'm not sure where people are managing to find ways to increase the car's power without a tank of nitrous. I was under the hood of a GST the other day... the turbo is the size of my fist and there is hardly any room in any part of that packed engine bay for a bigger turbo.

Also note that according to edmunds a GSX is actally .2 seconds slower than a GST on the 0-60:

GST 0-60 6.5
GSX 0-60 6.7

[thelinja]

Yeah, S15's are really sweet looking, but be prepared to cough up several grand for the conversion.

[LOwrestling2001]

well we'll ahve to see how much insurance will give me for my teg =\ then i can see exactly how far i can go :). motor suspension/tires are most important tho :). esp tires

[BEISSEN]

The 240SX is a real sweet lookingcar I love the 97-98 overall but its only due to the front end though.I also own one so that helped a lil to.But te 240SX is not 50/50 wish it were but very close iirc it is 48/52 the RX-7 and Miata are 50/50 but the neer GSX has crank walk issues which is a pain cus you wil constanly be repairing the car.The 240SX is a great car and to get you to a power level you only are looking at about 10g dependin on what year you get.

[West]

thelinja: I disagree with you, the GSX in the picture I posted had a set of GAB Coilovers ($1400) and the thing handled like mad, just as good as my 240 with HKS Coils and Sway, struts, etc. maybe even better. But my 240 needed softer springs and better tires so its hard to judge.

As for the GST being faster... maybe it is by a whole .2 sec when stock, but add 50HP and see how much slower your are when alls that happens is your front wheels burn out.

[thelinja]

Well any car will out handle another with enough money and tweaking. I was just saying that the guy I was talking to was rather disappointed by his GSX and the eibach suspension setup he was running. If he had the coilovers you're talking about, the GAB's, he may have done better. I don't know much about different suspensions, so I'll leave this topic alone for now.:p

[xhdriver]

i have an sr powered s13, and my bro has a big 16g powered 1st gen gsx, i know you are looking at the newer models of both cars but i think my experience might still apply.

i love both cars, but im glad to own the 240, mostly because i like being able to oversteer my brains out.

the only advantage he has is drag racing cause of the all wheel drive he can jump in front of me by a car length and stay there (when he gets a good launch), but im installing my lsd soon so well see then.

they are both great imo, it just depends on your taste.
http://www.az240sx.org/albums2/satanscar/Fronts.jpg

[SimpleS14]

It's all depends on your personal preference, how much money you have, how much money your willing to spend and whether or not you can find one.

Your going to spend alot to make either car go fast, but the GSX will be cheaper....as for reliablity......I would stick with the Nissan. I have a friend with a turbocharged (up the a$$) GSX and he drove a SR powered S14. All I can say is he actually liked the S14 better than his.....and for some reason he know work at a Nissan dealership. :confused:

Anywho...both good cars....but I have to go for ANY S14 (95-98 240SX)....mainly because I have one, I like the styling.....and you don't see too many on the streets. Also I want to have a fast AND sexy Japanese coupe.

[nrcooled]

To comment on the weak tranny issue:
From the factory the DSM's have very weak clutchs. That way if you decide to do a 5k drop the clutch will go and not the differential. Now if you put a 6 puck unsprung clutch in it. The clutch will hold but the differential will go eventually or the tranny. So stay with the stock setup and keep replacing the clutch and not the tranny. WRXs have the same problem, upgrade the power output and clutch then the center diff or tranny will go.

FYI just watch any rally coverage and you can see how disposable center diffs and trannys can be. That my friend is the "nature of the AWD beast"

[mrmephistopheles]

Go with a GSX.

Originally posted by thelinja

EONE's right too, I believe the Trannies are actually made by Hyundai, at least the 3000GT tran is..

On a side note, it's interesting that the 6 speed in the new Hyundai Tiburon is the *same* transmission as the SE-R Spec V.
Does this mean Nissan will be having tranny issues now? :rolleyes:

[AKADriver]

I don't think either Hyundai or Nissan made that transmission...

Hyundai drivetrain engineering is pretty damn good these days, though. Their 2.0 "Beta" engine used in the base Tiburon and the Elantra holds a lot of promise as a performance engine. In Hyundai's Accent WRC it seems to work pretty well...

[Foxcolt]

GSX = fwd with a little rwd assist.

When looking at tranfer case hear attached to the flywheel you can clearly see that's its impossible for a GSX to have a 50/50 torque ratio. From looking at the gears I'd say more like 80/20 if even that.

the 4G63 is very similar to an SR. Almost a square motor, DIS, beefy. It has just as much if not more potential than an SR. I've seen a 1st gen run into the 12's on a stock block/head 4G with (believe it or not) the stock 14b. Incredible!

However when looking at both motors side by side you'll notice that the SR is a little bit better built. Connecting rods are a little beefier crank is a little bit bigger.

Personaly I feel the newer mitsu's make better show cars than all out track machines. Although I love Diamond star motors and all the things they are capable of. I will say that well set up 240 w/ SR/KA-T will out perform an equally set up DSM in every way, including looks:D

[DamnedButDetermined]

Or if you want to save $4K you can get a S13 that is in good physical condition, with a blown engine, the do the S14a front end swap, and still have more money left over that can go into performance mods! That is what i would do, only b/c i think the rear end of a hatch looks so freaking good with the S14a front. I am not sure, but i thought the S13 is the better handling chassis out of the 240's. Please correct me if I am wrong though!

Man i wish i had a good bit of insurance money coming my way!

DbD

[LOwrestling2001]

yea but i like the s14 interior better

[whateverjames]

Originally posted by mrmephistopheles
On a side note, it's interesting that the 6 speed in the new Hyundai Tiburon is the *same* transmission as the SE-R Spec V.
Does this mean Nissan will be having tranny issues now? :rolleyes:

i've read a few articles that claim the sentra's 6-speed transmission isn't very good.

[Drifted off road]

i would go with the GSX. the 4g63 is (as previously stated) an incredible motor. its maybe one of the best turbocharged motor around. with simple bolt-on mods u will be up in the 300-350 mark. two of the big drawbacks are crankwalk where the crank moves very slightly and the tranny.

[moose]

Originally posted by Drifted off road
i would go with the GSX. the 4g63 is (as previously stated) an incredible motor. its maybe one of the best turbocharged motor around. with simple bolt-on mods u will be up in the 300-350 mark. two of the big drawbacks are crankwalk where the crank moves very slightly and the tranny.

What are the prices to fix crankwalk? I mean I was looking at a GSX as well, and well what will it cost to fix crankwalk?

[DRO916]

just came from the track yesterday...Sacramento Speedway that is...and there were a couple 240's...all zenki's and only one raced which got low 16.1. his reaction time was pretty bad though, above 2. there were also a couple dsm's there that raced. the quikest one was hitting 13.8.

iono if this is gonna help, but imo, DSMs are really quik, and thats pretty much all their meant to do.

on a side note
a mustang lost control and was drifting haha. his ass was lucky he didnt hit the side rails, he was about an inch or two away from it, swerving and almost hitting it about 5 times.

[Phlip]

Originally posted by whateverjames
i've read a few articles that claim the sentra's 6-speed transmission isn't very good.
I've heard exactly the contrary, it is also the same tranny that is in the maxima, realistically making 80 more horses than the sentra with no issues...


*EDIT: more to say...

On the topic at hand, he didn't mention whether he was comparing 1st or second gen GSXs or S13s or S14s and the cost incurred with them will also be an issue... If he is simply planning on a swap, as S13 with a blown engine can be had for peanuts and you will spend little time undoing someone else's fuckups. On the same token, you can get a 95 or a 96 at a wonderful price if it has a few miles on it (again, swap/suspension, so it wouldn't matter as much) but I have noticed that 1st gen GSXs are many times ragged out, and the second generations are ungodly expensive (at least here in NC). Personally, as if anyone would be shocked, I say go with a 95-96 and go with the swap, or you can get a used KA (I paid 400 for engine/tranny and FOUND it had a low mile ACT stage 2) cheap to build up a KA-T for what you would spend on just the car for a second gen GSX...

[LOwrestling2001]

haha, yea i already have a 96 240 and already swapped the motor :) thanks tho guys

[the3SecondJerk]

I think a few years back Hyundai was using 4g63 Evo motors in their WRC rally car. Correct me if I am wrong but I m pretty sure thats what it was.

[Yoshi]

GSX

[S13SilviaDrifter]

Ok, I just bought me an 89 coupe last week, pics will be up soon, i got it for 1000 bucks in perfect condition, I use to own a 2nd Gen Eclipse GS-T for about a year now and I'm currently voluntarily impounding the car back to the bank because it developed crankwalk. What is crankwalk and why does it affect so many DSM's?, this is something you should really search before buying a gst or gsx, is something that affects all 4g63 engines and you take a risk that your's would not develop it. I always took care of the car changed oil every 3000 miles sometimes less and was always on top of it. The first problem that rose before developing crankwalk was that my clucth started going out, me and my friend jacked it up and found out that it was just the release cylinder that had gone out and it wasnt popping the clucth back, so we went out bought a new release cylinder or slave cylinder (i always thought it was release) for 50 bucks went back and the car was perfect again, great!, minor problem i can finally start thinking about dropping in a FPBig28 Green, FMIC, and SFP Exhaust Manifold right......WRONG!, about a month later im driving in a shopping parking lot with my friend's brother, as im reaching a speed bump i put the car on neutral, put second gear, when i let my foot off the clucth the car all of a sudden just turns off, dead, and it's not starting so as my friend pushes it out the way i turn on the ignition the car turns back on...weird, might be the coil, we'll get it checked. So the car kept doing this for about a week, we get it checked and it's not the coil everything is fine, but im driving the car thinking that at any moment it might just turn off, and it did, getting off the expressway it just died on me and it didnt turn back on this time. Now when you try to turn it on, it just gives the sound as if is trying to get going, but it just doesnt and it has this loud ticking noise everytime you "crank" it.

Crankwalk. They call it this because basically the crankshaft begins to "walk" or slide in the engine block to the left or the right until it tears through it and the engine just doesnt start again, most often to the right where it meets the Crank Angle Sensor, that's the ticking sound, the crankshaft pushing against it, at this point, forget about it, you're gonna have to get a new engine and that meas $$$$$.

In my opinion, Mitsubishi in general is a bad company, i knew this when i bought the gst but when you want something you get blinded an this served as experience for me, so i went back to the big three (i use to own a honda before then sold it), Toyota, Nissan and Honda, you get either one of these three cars, and you have a car for life. Fast and Reliable engines. Sorry for longness, just had a lot to say.

Oh yeah for your own good dude, dont get a DSM AWD you'll be spending lots of cash in drivetrain problems, the trany is just too weak, i know a guy with a gs-t that blew his transmission, literally, doing a run and his car wasnt even that high in HP, so they're just not worth it, they come with problems from the company, it just wasnt engineered right, especially the second gens.

[S13SilviaDrifter]

oh look here are some pics of the eclipse a month after i had it.

[S13SilviaDrifter]

heres another one.

[nismo_sr20_wut]

my last car was a 95 gsx before my 97 240, i can take turns harder in my 240 then i could in my gsx, i prefer rwd over awd, and the eclipses that look good 95-99 have tendancy to break and get crankwalk, awd is not so hot in my opinion it lags at high speeds because your putting power to four wheels instead of 2, that is why you see a gsx jump off the line and be 3 cars in front and then by the end of the 1.4 mile the guy is right beside them or in front, awd can get you off the line quick but will lag when you start getting to higher speeds, if you get a 95 240 under 5g's then get an s13 motor in it with mods you can have a quicker car for under 10g's, if your looking for a decent eclipse you will be spending at least that much. In my opinion get the 240 because i have owned them both, these are my reasons 1) people pay alot more attention to 240's then eclipses 2) rwd is better then awd 3) you can never drift, do donuts, or powerslides in awd (unless you have crazy hp or go in dirt) 4) mitsubishi's come with wonderful mitsubull**** (like crankwalk & tranny problems) 5) The lancer evo viii is out now and blows the gsx away, a lighter car and a lightened 4g63 motor 6) gsx weighs alot 7) eclipse come with ugly orange lights inside the interior (ex. dash lights & gauge cluster) terrible if you will ever do indiglo anything inside the car & dont say orange is like bmw because the eclipse and beamers have nothing in common ;) these are some of the reasons i decided not to get another eclipse, also the biggest one, i lost control and traction in my gsx, with toyo t1-s tires, awd handling baby ;) (never lost control in my 240) heres the pic of what happened to me when i lost control in my awd!

[S13SilviaDrifter]

Ouch! that car is gone:eek:

[nismo_sr20_wut]

crankwalk can affect all cars, any car no matter what, its just it is very rare in most cars, but in 2nd gen eclipses it is common, 1g eclipses it is rare and in galant vr4's and laners it is rare as well, so its not the 4g63 that is bad, just the one in the 2g eclipses, i dont know what different specs it is on the 2nd gens but everything ive read or seen has never said anything bad about 1st gens lancers or galants, so it is my udnerstanding that it is just 2nd gens

[DRO916]

Originally posted by nismo_sr20_wut
...heres the pic of what happened to me when i lost control in my awd! ....

deaaaaamn!! what happened there? u lost control and rolled a couple times???!?! trying to race?

[nismo_sr20_wut]

Wasnt racing when i crashed, just saw a car that was going to slow and i was going to fast and didnt have time to slow and when i had to cut to the left the car start turning itself probably cuz i cut it to quick and to hard and then wack into the center divide, flipped slid did a 180 while upside down then crawled out the window. came out with a sprained ankle Thank God.

[BOOSTLOVER]

OK about three and a half years ago i got a 94 gst all stock, I drove the hell out of it for a cupple years and it was a very fun car, handling wasn't great, a little soft. After my girlfriend and I broke up I noticed I had alot more money in my wallet, ALOT. So I paid off my car loan and started saving for a better project car. Shortly after that noticed I was pretty low on oil witch=new engine DAMN. $1,100 later my dad and I put in the 2nd engine. I drove it for about 2 weeks checking oil every other day, One day I got home and saw a oil puddle on the driveway and just about passed out. Between 2 to 3 quarts low, the bearings were fried, and the 2 month warrenty was over, DAMN. $950 later engine #3 I didn't want to mess with putting another engine in so I paid a guy $450 to swap engines. After that I was ready to sell it. Got the car home, a few days later I checked the oil before I drove 15 miles to my friends house, I got half way there and pulled over and checked the oil. Everything was fine. I got to my friends house and looked under the car for leaks and found nothing. shortly after that we left, I drove about 1 mile and was sitting at a red light when it starting idleing odd. Green light, I turn left to get on the highway. I get to third gear and look down at the oil pressure, there was none, DAMN. I turned off the car and pulled off to the sholder, got out and looked under the car to find oil pooring out and coolent was ****ing out. This time the engine was still under warrenty. so we towed the car to the place I got the engines from and they said they would find another engine and put it in for free. It took them a cupple months to get one and put it in. So in that time my friend told me about a shop that was a few miles from my house. I went there (Project D) and it was sweet, I didn't have a car to get anything for so I got a video, I will never forget the feeling I got when I popped in the OPTION VOLUME 90 video , it was like my first date in high school when I was droping her off she jumped over the armrest on to me and well anyways the video had me hooked. So I went back and got more and more. By the time my car was ready I Knew I wanted a AE86 or a 240. I picked up my car, they drove it about 25 miles and said it ran fine so I drove it about 40 miles home backed into my driveway and noticed smoke comeing out of the exhaust,DAMN. We tried everything and couldn't figure out what was causing the smoke. We towed the car up there again and they couldn't figure it out eather so they said they would replace the engine for free. This time it took them about 4 months to locate a good engine so in that time I found a 89 240sx for $1,800 , a 55 year old guy that had no clue what he had, two days after I bought it he said he got between 20 or 30 calls on it. It has 170,000 miles on it and it runs perfectly. So shortly later I needed a car to drive when the 240's appart. So I found a 99 GSX about a month after I got the 240.

Now about the 240 and GSX question, for me the 240 is a funner project car. Stock it handels alot better and when I drive the GSX people are allways trying to race and I can't get anymore tickets. Yea the GSX has great excelloration but for around $8,000 the 240 will stomp the GSX in every way. And plus you don't see 240's everywhere ya go. also with the 240 I don't worry about crankwalk. So I would say the 240 is a more rewarding car.

[BOOSTLOVER]

Almost forgot, I got the GST back about a month and a half ago and it ran fine. But a week later I did a little spirited driveing and when I got home smoke was pooring out of the hood. I looked under the hood and there was oil everywhere, I wanted to cry but it was 3 am and I had to work at 6 so I went to bed. The next day at work I felt sick untill my dad called and said the dip stick popped out and it was only a half quart low on oil. Now whenever I gun it the dip stick pops out. I replaced the PCV valve and it still does it. I'm going to get some more O-rings for the dip stick and also do a compression test. I've been wanting to sell it for about a year I need to sell it within a month so I can order parts for the 240.

[Drifted off road]

Originally posted by nismo_sr20_wut
crankwalk can affect all cars, any car no matter what, its just it is very rare in most cars, but in 2nd gen eclipses it is common, 1g eclipses it is rare and in galant vr4's and laners it is rare as well, so its not the 4g63 that is bad, just the one in the 2g eclipses, i dont know what different specs it is on the 2nd gens but everything ive read or seen has never said anything bad about 1st gens lancers or galants, so it is my udnerstanding that it is just 2nd gens
the difference in the specs is acutally with the crank. its is totaly different on 1g. im pretty sure it is a 4 bolt on 1g and 5 bolt on 2g. if not i know there is a difference in the bolt pattern.

LOwrestling2001
congrats on the 240 man u made the right choice. its sweet that u already did the swap. good luck with the sr man.

[whateverjames]

I was wondering when I typed that, then I looked at the date.

Originally posted by PHLIP
I've heard exactly the contrary, it is also the same tranny that is in the maxima, realistically making 80 more horses than the sentra with no issues...

maybe not stregnth-wise, but I referring to this that I read long ago;

"There are problems in the path to the pavement, though — the Spec V's 6-speed gearbox linkage makes plasticky, clunking noises, and it's possible to overshoot the gate on a quick 4–5 upshift. Also, torque steer is especially noticeable while exiting tight corners in lower gears."

Maybe it's just specific to the Sentra. Who knows.

[Travis240]

What would I do? I'd buy an S15 Silvia from an importer (if you don't live in Cali). That would walk away from a stock Gsx, look sweet, and you can get one for under ten if you shop around.

[LOwrestling2001]

uhh, under 10...good one

[S13SilviaDrifter]

uhh, under 10...good one


dude, c'mon, you can get like a headlight, passenger mirror and tailight from an S15 for under 10 grand;) , seriously.

[ocshaman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Drifted off road
[B]the difference in the specs is acutally with the crank. its is totaly different on 1g. im pretty sure it is a 4 bolt on 1g and 5 bolt on 2g. if not i know there is a difference in the bolt pattern.
The 90- may 92 DSM's had 6 bolt flywheels
then on had 7 bolts. the seven bolts are the ones that usually crankwalk. Most 2g Dsm guys buy a 1g engine to build up and then drop in
Also, alot of MK4 supras were having CW problems with an arizona? clutch.

[mrmephistopheles]

PLEASE, GOD!

let this thread die!

[driftk2000]

My buddy who drives an Eclipse told me that these cars have what they call the "Crank Walk" problem. The crankshaft slides side to side while stroking.

[mrmephistopheles]

*STAB*STAB*STAB*

DIE THREAD DIE!!

[240SxTYLE]

since mrmephistopheles wont say it bluntly enough....

DONT FU[KING REVIVE OLD A$$ THREADS.... THIS SH!TS TWO MONTHS OLD!!!!