Stock S14 alarm description

[radhaz]

I'm having some starter problems, I bought the car used about a year and was told the alarm was still installed but not functional. I've never seen the led in the steering column activate until today when I was getting a jump. I can't troubleshoot this until the weekend (work schedule is amazingly busy) and I'd like to do as much paper troubleshooting as possible before I can get a multimeter on the ckt. I found a Single Pole Double Throw switch (aka toggle switch) and a momentary pushbutton underneath my dash that don't look anywhere near stock so I'm guessing they're some el cheapo aftermarket kit.

I didn't have time to trace the wires out but if anyone can give me some guidance as to the general operation of alarms functions I would greatly appreciate it. Would one of the switches be a "valet switch" and if so what does a valet switch do? I'm wondering if the toggle switch is a manual starter kill but its in a rather obvious spot for that (I found in 30 seconds of looking).

I was able to push start the car (with help of course) but without further troubleshooting that doesn't help me much to figure out the culprit. If it's a bad starter I can just buy a new one and install it over the weekend, but if it's an alarm issue I will probably have to take it to an installer and get them to install a new alarm/remove the old one.

Any advice on the matter would be greatly appreciated I went through the www.the12volt.com website and while it gives some generic pinouts but that was about it regarding the alarm :(

[projectRDM]

It's definitely aftermarket, and without knowing what kind it is or what options it has there's not a lot to tell you. The valet switch is simply an override for the alarm, used to shut it off if the remote isn't working or if you're leaving the car for service/repair/parking and don't want it activated. If it's not triggering though then putting it into valet mode won't do anything to enable the starter. I would drop the lower dash trim and find where the starter wire has been cut, disconnect whatever relay is inline and reconnect the starter wire back stock. That will at least ensure the alarm isn't the problem.

[driven_]

hmm so you cant start it?

when i tried to start my car, battery was drained out from staying in a garage over winter, i looked up some info. and to reset the alarm instead of valet, try locking and unlocking your driver side door with your key.
thats what worked for me,
the annoying alarm went off,
after weeks of reasearch, LOL.

all i did was, went to the door, lock, unlock, and alarm turned off, and was able to start up.

we thought it was the starter too, we started hitting it with a rod, and now my starter grinds (so dont do that). hehe.

dont really know bout yours, but hope this helps.

EDIT: btw my alarm is an Autopage XT-59

[4bangers]

does the factory alarm has valet mode?

[projectRDM]

does the factory alarm has valet mode?

No. But it's also disabled with the key so you wouldn't really need a valet mode if the car is left with it's keys.

[radhaz]

Thank you very much Driven & ProjectRDM I will take your advice and see where it gets me. If it doesn't work out my backup plan is to pull the starter and take it to a parts store to get optested.

[alkemyst]

toggle switch could be a fuel cut off. The momentary button is usually used to start the car after starter kill is enabled.

They could also be used for anti carjack, valet mode, etc.

Usually the starter kill is done right inside the steering column. If you take off the plastic cover you can hunt down the wires.

[radhaz]

Update for anyone who's curious

Had to work late today so that meant I didn't get as much time as I had hoped to troubleshoot. Got under the car pulled the starter tried to jump it from the bench, epic failure...I forgot you have to put 12v on the solenoid as well as the hot lead and then it worked /sigh.

It was raining outside (sunny florida my butt it rains here every day I think) and the sun was setting so I was in a rush to get the car at least mobile. My friend & I decided the quickest way to get the car mobile (without the godforsaken push-starts) we would rig a temporary wire from the solenoid and I could simply put the key in the ignition to the "run" and start the car by engaging the starter manually by putting the wire on the pos terminal of the battery.

Normally this would work, the starter isn't a complex circuit; however, not for me it justs cranks the starter over & over but the motor never fires (so it's missing fuel or spark). I have to actually have someone put the connection from the solenoid and then push in my clutch & turn the ignition all the way to the "start" position. This at least got my car moving. Unfortunately I've eliminated the easy fix and now have to work dig through the schematics to get a better idea of what I'm looking at/for in regards to how the alarms are installed.

My next plan of attack is to remove the alarm and applicable wiring and hoping that fixes it, if not the only culprits left are wiring or the ignition cylinder neither of which promise to be fun.

[projectRDM]

It's the alarm wiring. The starter will just spin the engine, the key HAS to be on for ECU control and fuel. Since you can start it fine from under the hood the problem is inside.

[radhaz]

It's the alarm wiring. The starter will just spin the engine, the key HAS to be on for ECU control and fuel. Since you can start it fine from under the hood the problem is inside.

Just to clarify, I can spin the starter from under the hood fine I can't actually start the motor unless I turn the key (E108) to the ST as opposed to the ON position. Honestly that kind of befuddles me because I haven't figured out what exactly is supposed to happen when I throw the ignition switch to ST beyond providing power to the starter solenoid. I'm attaching a pic of the starting schematic I'm using just as a reference:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7853/startinget8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

If it's an alarm issue then that means to me it's not simply a starter kill switch but the ECU or the fuel pump. So it appears they wired the aftermarket starter into the existing (but not used) factory theft wiring.

Thanks for the input I always appreciate an opportunity to sanity check my troubleshooting.

[projectRDM]

With the key on, the ECU is energized and the fuel pump is on. Moving the key to start simply engages the starter solenoid. Just spinning the starter without the key on won't work, but like you've said the solenoid is engaging so the starter works. The OE alarm just opens the solenoid circuit, but the aftermarket one may open the ignition or fuel circuit. Get in and see.

[radhaz]

So I got it wired to a point where I can start it without help, but it's definitely a temporary fix. I got the dash apart and found a "chapman vehicle alarm" computer wired into the dash. I hope the wiring was done by a previous owner because looking at the quality of the install it was done poorly. Everythings cut and twisted together and stretched around in the dash panel.

Some googling turned up some information regarding how to disable the alarm but I think it's going to be better to simply remove it altogether. The problem is the caliber of the install ie it's wired into different parts of the loom and from the looks of it they shortened wires when cutting the loom :bash: Due to the poor wiring job I'm less than eager to actually disconnect the alarm cpu without first finding all the wires and where they're supposed to go to.

If I could get a schematic for the alarm I could theoretically take the wirings going in and wire them together effectively bypassing the alarm; however, the alarm is extremely old and the company no longer exists so that's not an option. I might just end up driving it to an installer and getting a quote to get it removed and/or a replacement alarm.

For what it's worth the alarm cpu has three plugs

Plug 1 1 single connector with multiple wires
orange
orange/black
pink?

Section 2 is actually individual wires with spades on them
white
white
red
black
blue
green/black

Plug 3 1 single connector with multiple wires
orange
dark brown brown
red
black
white
yellow
green
grey
pink
dark blue
light brown

[alkemyst]

You don't need a schematic really...just take the time to trace the wires and know things like the ignition need to be spliced back together once you pull the alarm out of the mix. If I were you I'd use this time to install a new alarm at the same time.

If you go to bulldogsecurity.com you can get where typical tap points are for alarms in your car.

Also I'd post up at sounddomain.com under the security section...someone may know what each wire does and point you in the direction to get your car working without having to start over.

[radhaz]

You don't need a schematic really...just take the time to trace the wires and know things like the ignition need to be spliced back together once you pull the alarm out of the mix. If I were you I'd use this time to install a new alarm at the same time.

If you go to bulldogsecurity.com you can get where typical tap points are for alarms in your car.

Also I'd post up at sounddomain.com under the security section...someone may know what each wire does and point you in the direction to get your car working without having to start over.

Definitely sound advice; however, I travel for work and don't have the time or space to undertake any long term tasks. I would think normally this would be a quick disconnect and trace the wire back to where it goes & reconnect it; however, the install looks shoddy at best. I am concerned of having to splice in wires where they were cut short and if I somehow manage to miss a wire the car won't even run which would leave me stranded.

I've got a temporary fix in place but I will most likely just pay to have a new alarm installed and have them remove the old one along the way. LOL if I'm not careful before too long all the little problems are going to become overwhelming.

[Bigsyke]

first is it a base or SE?

2nd, all you need to do is connect the starter wires together, and ignition wires together. I had the same issue with my s14, but it sounds like the alarm is still armed- OR, they just yanked the brain out. Pull the fuses out of the alarms fuse holders, if the LED is on because you pulled the neg terminal that means the kill circut is still enabled.