Shimming an R200 or J30 vlsd [Archive] - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Mtndrifter14

06-27-2008, 05:43 PM

By: Hunter Rodziczak

I could not find a comprehensive guide to doing this, So I thought I would make one for the good of the S chassis community.

Benefits: Get clutch type lsd action for a 1/4 of the price.

Well post j30 VLSD installation I found myself quite unsatisfied with the performance. As with Many VLSd's after becoming heated up they simply refuse to work properly and your VLSD becomes a one tire fire and thats no good. So after looking for upgrades I stumbled across a few options. Since I have a J30 vlsd with 5 bolt output shafts I would have to switch back to the standard 240sx R200 differential housing in order to run a clutch type lsd. I sold my old diff and a clutch type lsd wasn't in my budget. Somehow I stumbled across Shimming. Shimming involves adding an extra shim(s) to the original preload shim and causes the vlsd to lock similarly to a clutch type lsd. This preload shim costs $10 from you local Nissan dealer so this is definitely worth the money.

-Add one shim and vlsd will act similarly to a 1.5 way lsd

-Add two shims it will act like a 2 way/welded diff.

Here is a picture of the Shim with part no: ( this fits both j30 and R200 diffs)
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5013.jpg
Here's your standard diff, Start By removing the diff from the car and unbolting the 8 bolts holding the diff cover on.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5001.jpg
Once that is completed, separate the cover like so and before you put the new sealant on remember to scrap off all old sealant and I recommend using brakecleen to clean surfaces before applying sealant back on.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5002.jpg
This is what you'll see:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5003.jpg
Next before anything else knock out the output shafts. This takes quite a bit of effort but don't be scared they will eventually come out. I recommend hitting them from behind with a hammer:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5005.jpg
Next you can take off the cap bolts like so:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5004.jpg
IMPORTANT: Remember which side the shafts and caps cam from as to not mix them up
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5006.jpg
And this is what you're left with:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5007.jpg
Next, it's time to pry out the differential. Unless you have superhuman strength you have to get it out using a bar that give leverage:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5008.jpg
And end result:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5009.jpg
Unless you have a very good impact gun the next part is almost impossible. Take these bolts out to separate the ring gear from the diff.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5010.jpg
Next take off these two Phillips head screws.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5011.jpg
Pry apart:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5014.jpg
The Almighty shim:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5016.jpg
Now take this and put it over the existing shim:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5013.jpg
And now put the diff back together the same way you took it apart.

Impressions: Awesome locking compared to the stock vlsd can't complain.

UNISA JECS

06-27-2008, 08:16 PM

Here goes another link also:

http://www.d1nz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9610&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=9695f9b396f1937d7f561d68f2602e75

derek_s13

06-28-2008, 01:23 AM

i think this is one of those things that makes perfectly clear forehead-slapping sense once explained to you..

..but for some reason just did not even cross your mind ever before.

shimming a stock diff ACTUALLY works. duh.

so yeah, i feel stupid, but i'm glad you're intelligent. just wanted to say how cool i thought this write-up was.

Mtndrifter14

06-30-2008, 12:44 AM

Thanks man,

archive fact worthy?

motegineon

07-10-2008, 12:54 AM

sweetness, now do you have to measure/do the backlash?

if so anyone got a link lol

awesomenick

07-10-2008, 11:16 AM

I was under the impression that our gear lash was set with washers? Do you have to change their configuration?

Mtndrifter14

08-28-2008, 09:02 AM

nope no changes need to be made

Sileighty_85

08-28-2008, 09:20 AM

This works good, I had two friends do this 3 weeks ago

Def

08-28-2008, 03:07 PM

motegineon

08-28-2008, 06:21 PM

well in that case dont drift or drive your car hard because your wearing it faster, inevitably causing your vehicle to fail..

btw im one of the people that shimmed my diff about a month ago and it is still fully locked and feels amazing

quach

09-13-2008, 03:46 AM

how is a shimmed vlsd for daily driving? I'm getting sick of my welded diff since i only daily drive the car now, is it anything like a welded? Also, what are the long term ill effects of doing this to the diff?

motegineon

09-13-2008, 01:47 PM

mine is exactly the same as a welded, but i have a lot thicker shims in mine than a lot of the people who just add a small on to tighten it up a tad, in that case it would feel just like a normal vlsd that just locks easier

breakneckspeeds

09-15-2008, 10:45 AM

I added 1 shim a couple weeks and its pretty tight, mine had a ratcheting sound on slow tight turns, but after breaking it in and a lsd additive the ratcheting has almost gone but there is a ton more lock than i thought there would be. if i knew how much there would be i might have only replaced the shim other than adding 1. how was breakin for everyone else??? any noise or just some tire chirping??

lazysk8er2

09-16-2008, 05:57 PM

can anyone list the part number cuz the pics arent working for me if its on there gonan do this asap very much hating on my vlsd right now

motegineon

09-16-2008, 07:55 PM

-Shims go up in 0.3mm increments from 0.8 to 1.49mm

38424-40F60 =0.80mm(same as in the picture)
38424-40F67 =1.01mm
38424-40F75 =1.25mm
38424-40F83 =1.49mm (the biggest)

MunsonAuto

09-21-2008, 09:14 PM

Will this work with a stock open diff. too?

motegineon

09-21-2008, 09:28 PM

no

msg length

SoSideways

09-22-2008, 03:51 PM

Aren't you just causing the gear engagement between the spider gears in the diff to be more heel/root heavy and therefore bind up?

I don't see how this is an "awesome mod." You're just incorrectly adjusting spider gears. Once you get a gear incorrectly adjusted like that, there will be relatively movement between gears as they mesh, which will wear them down in short order. Wear in a diff means metal shavings, which will cause accelerated wear in other components and potentially massive failure.

I thought the viscous diffs just had viscous fluid engaging the plates inside the housing, thus transferring torque between the 2 wheels?

If so, there shouldn't be spider gears turning and being meshed and destroyed, no?

kouness

09-22-2008, 09:19 PM

wow this is awesome.. i have a vlsd lying around.. i need to do this before i throw it into my pumpkin.. nice...

Chrischeezer

11-12-2008, 02:53 PM

bumping a good old thread..

just took my lsd apart, had a 1.25mm shim in there from the factory (odd) and I could only get a .80mm and a 1.01mm from nissan, i installed both of them... think its gonig to fully lock?

edit: Update...

here is a very easy trick that will save you a headake when installing the diff back into the pumpkin.

-lift the whole pumpkin up with all the bearings and spacers aligned. and drop it on the drive shaft end. ( a nice 1 foot drop)
-use a phone book or somthing to drop it on.
-the impact(s) will pull the lsd bearings and spacers all into place effortlessly.

(took me about 4 drops and i couldn't believe it was that easy. lol

first impressions.. (awesome) It was fully locked but i did a few figure eights and it loosened up a bit. feels perfect.... super tight.

aziankingz

11-13-2008, 07:38 AM

^ you wanna help me do mine lol?

SoSideways

11-13-2008, 07:52 AM

-lift the whole pumpkin up with all the bearings and spacers aligned. and drop it on the drive shaft end. ( a nice 1 foot drop)

So I guess you can get buff while doing this too huh?

lol

The diff is like 100 pounds hahaha

smelly240

11-13-2008, 07:59 AM

i have this in my car as well.

best 4$ ever.

they're special order sometimes - i have an extra if anyone cant get a shim.

Chrischeezer

11-13-2008, 09:09 AM

^ you wanna help me do mine lol?

sure, pm me

s13dan

11-15-2008, 11:38 AM

Tourqe specs for ring gear?

hey my VLSd (I know for sure its lsd)dosnt work at all never has no matter what fluid i use... So do you guy think i should just get the biggest shim. Im doing this asap ill be waiting on the dealership im sure.

RUTH'LESSDET

11-16-2008, 08:49 AM

im all over this!!!

Chrischeezer

11-17-2008, 02:56 PM

just wondering...
after shimming your LSD, does anyone get a slight whine/rolling noise from it? its not loud, but its definitely audible.

Jtuned_andy

11-17-2008, 03:06 PM

That whine/rolling noise is probably from improper gear mesh. I can't see how this is any good for the gears inside your differential.

s13dan

11-19-2008, 12:23 AM

Tourqe specs for ring gear?

for real though anyone got them???

smelly240

11-19-2008, 08:49 AM

impact wrench blast :P

UNISA JECS

11-19-2008, 08:59 AM

Ring gear bolt torque specs are 130-145ft-lb

SoSideways

11-19-2008, 08:59 AM

for real though anyone got them???

FSM says 130-145 ft-lbs.

You've used all your free hand outs.

Please get yourself a copy of the FSM before you approach any further.

RUTH'LESSDET

11-26-2008, 06:20 PM

What size shims did use guys use because i dont want mine to act like a welded diff really but i dont want it to be weak sauce either. I was considering using a one 1.25mm shim. Any insight is appreciated

silviaguy240

11-26-2008, 06:39 PM

you have to use the correct shims so the backlash is within stock spec.

edit, why not just buy a welded diff/get yours welded. this is ghetto and your old ass lsd is gonna break faster than normal.

khoadogg

11-27-2008, 10:11 AM

you have to use the correct shims so the backlash is within stock spec.

edit, why not just buy a welded diff/get yours welded. this is ghetto and your old ass lsd is gonna break faster than normal.

does it lock just like a welded diff? I rather do this and get a 1.5 type around town than a fully locked diff.

RUTH'LESSDET

11-27-2008, 03:18 PM

you have to use the correct shims so the backlash is within stock spec.

edit, why not just buy a welded diff/get yours welded. this is ghetto and your old ass lsd is gonna break faster than normal.
I dont want a welded diff that shit is too brut for me right now I drive my car alot now and dont feel like dealing with that crap all the time.

redline racer510

01-09-2009, 10:29 AM

i say just add a 1.01 shim and you should be good even replacing the stock shim with a new one will not give you the lock up you want so just add a 1.01 and you should lock up pretty close to how a 1.5 locks up the only thing i dont know about this mod is how long you vlsd will last but from some of the people that have done this say the vlsd wont make any noises after breaking it in with a couple figure 8 patterns like some of the other members in this thread.

Mtndrifter14

01-18-2009, 02:54 PM

Glad to see you guys found this useful if you have any questions feel free to pm me.

Snoopy

01-20-2009, 07:34 AM

A buddy of mine did this... We had allot of noise when the clutches engaged.
We used some chevy lsd additive and it cleared it up

Any1 else had a problem with this?

SoSideways

01-20-2009, 07:37 AM

A buddy of mine did this... We had allot of noise when the clutches engaged.
We used some chevy lsd additive and it cleared it up

Any1 else had a problem with this?

When the clutches engaged?

I didn't think there were CLUTCHES in a VLSD?

irax

01-20-2009, 07:59 AM

When the clutches engaged?

I didn't think there were CLUTCHES in a VLSD?

so you're assuming he drives auto?

SoSideways

01-20-2009, 09:26 AM

so you're assuming he drives auto?

What?

Unless he has a multiplate clutch assembly, I don't see how there could be "CLUTCHES" on a car, unless he was talking about the LSD clutches, which an VLSD do not have.

irax

01-20-2009, 09:42 AM

automatics have multiple clutches, though i am not sure if the nissan 240 automatic trans is that type..

it could also be a typo

Snoopy

01-20-2009, 09:44 AM

What?

Unless he has a multiplate clutch assembly, I don't see how there could be "CLUTCHES" on a car, unless he was talking about the LSD clutches, which an VLSD do not have.

My mistake* To my understanding I thought a vlsd was a clutch type..

SoSideways

01-20-2009, 11:06 AM

My mistake* To my understanding I thought a vlsd was a clutch type..

No, if it was a clutch type people wouldn't be preloading it.

A VLSD is based on the viscous fluid dynamic to create a "drag" between the 2 halves inside the differential.

When 1 wheel starts to spin, the guts of the VLSD, more importantly the viscous fluid, will start to drag the other half along with it, creating a "differential" type effect, where both wheels are spinning.

A good example of this would be to take a glass of water, put some ice in it, and wet down the surface where the glass of water will sit on, and start spinning the glass. You should see the glass go first, then the ice will eventually start spinning along with the glass.

That motion is the same type of motion that happens inside a VLSD.

It has no clutch plates like the clutch type LSDs do.

Helical LSDs also do not have clutch plates. Helical LSDs are all gear based, no clutch plates.

NissanTech240

01-21-2009, 06:36 AM

where you add shims..do you have to shim the other side also or only the one side

smelly240

01-21-2009, 07:51 AM

wtf are you talking about??? read the thread mr 1 post new guy.

the shim goes between the diff head and the viscous coupler.

NissanTech240

01-21-2009, 08:50 AM

wtf are you talking about??? read the thread mr 1 post new guy.

the shim goes between the diff head and the viscous coupler.

yeah i saw that but on another site they had the center section out. was just wondering

SoSideways

01-21-2009, 10:11 AM

The diff came from the factory with ONE (1) shim, you either replace that one or stack on 2 littler ones to get a thicker effective height, what is so hard to understand about this?

NissanTech240

01-21-2009, 11:58 AM

The diff came from the factory with ONE (1) shim, you either replace that one or stack on 2 littler ones to get a thicker effective height, what is so hard to understand about this?

i understand it all. im not retarded. on another site the guy had the center section of the diff taken out where the spiders where showing..completely out. was just wondering..i get the fact that you dont have to

JRas

01-21-2009, 01:45 PM

Once that is completed, separate the cover like so and before you put the new sealant on remember to scrap off all old sealant and I recommend using brakecleen to clean surfaces before applying sealant back on.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Mtndrifter14/new5002.jpg

those two rusted holes at the top are better for removing the cover, the cover hangs over the holes a tad, so you can take a flat head screw driver and pop off the cover without damaging anything.

paper gasket ftw :cool:

racepar1

02-03-2009, 02:29 PM

-Shims go up in 0.3mm increments from 0.8 to 1.49mm

38424-40F60 =0.80mm(same as in the picture)
38424-40F67 =1.01mm
38424-40F75 =1.25mm
38424-40F83 =1.49mm (the biggest)

What shim originally comes in the diff? I am thinking about doing this, but I only want to make a small difference. I figure if I replace the stock shim with one that is one or two sizes thicker it should do just what I want. Since my car is a trackday/autocross car I really don't want the diff to lock in an aggressive manner.

SoSideways

02-03-2009, 02:34 PM

What shim originally comes in the diff? I am thinking about doing this, but I only want to make a small difference. I figure if I replace the stock shim with one that is one or two sizes thicker it should do just what I want. Since my car is a trackday/autocross car I really don't want the diff to lock in an aggressive manner.

You might have no choice but to open up your diff, then use a mic to see how thick it is, as I think the diffs can come from the factory with a few different thicknesses, which is why you can buy so many different thickness washers to begin with...

motegineon

02-03-2009, 06:00 PM

You might have no choice but to open up your diff, then use a mic to see how thick it is, as I think the diffs can come from the factory with a few different thicknesses, which is why you can buy so many different thickness washers to begin with...

Yea what he said

Heres what I suggest:

Being that they are only a couple dollars, order 1.01 and 1.25. Open your diff and compare the shim that is in there to the 2 you bought, and base that off which one you choose for your application, then just go return the one you didn't use.

kalypso123

02-07-2009, 08:52 AM

I love this thread

aa87

02-13-2009, 12:15 PM

Me and motegi did it at the same time.

Its pretty awesome, I snapped my axle boots and have a lot of play.

Don't forget to align the splines to the axles before you tighten down the phillips screws after putting in the shim, it keeps you from ahving to take everything apart.

But yeah, shim size can vary, me and motegi's had different shims from the factory (we assume), I just plopped a random old one i had in a junk vlsd i had sitting around, no problems, no whines, no issues.

I traded my welded out for that, and im a million times happier (although my welded had some backlash adjustment issues which annoyed me.)

UNISA JECS

04-10-2009, 01:19 PM

AVAILABLE SIDE GEAR THRUST WASHERS

Type R200V

Thrust washer

Thickness mm (in) Part number
0.80 (0.0315) 38424 40F60
0.83 (0.0327) 38424 40F61
0.86 (0.0339) 38424 40F62
0.89 (0.0350) 38424 40F63
0.92 (0.0362) 38424 40F64
0.95 (0.0374) 38424 40F65
0.98 (0.0386) 38424 40F66
1.01 (0.0398) 38424 40F67
1.04 (0.0409) 38424 40F68
1.07 (0.0421) 38424 40F69
1.10 (0.0433) 38424 40F70
1.13 (0.0445) 38424 40F71
1.16 (0.0457) 38424 40F72
1.19 (0.0469) 38424 40F73
1.22 (0.0480) 38424 40F74
1.25 (0.0492) 38424 40F75
1.28 (0.0504) 38424 40F76
1.31 (0.0516) 38424 40F77
1.34 (0.0528) 38424 40F78
1.37 (0.0539) 38424 40F79
1.40 (0.0551) 38424 40F80
1.43 (0.0563) 38424 40F81
1.46 (0.0575) 38424 40F82
1.49 (0.0587) 38424 40F83

UNISA JECS

04-10-2009, 01:35 PM

SirSilvia

04-17-2009, 07:41 PM

:cool: nice I can use that diagram as a general reference when putting the new shim.
I bought 38424-40F82 and 38424-40F83
I'm gonna go try the smaller one first for a while

UNISA JECS

04-17-2009, 07:56 PM

Does anyone here use a micrometer to measure the old shims to determine what size shim to go with when doing this mod or is everyone doing inni minni mini mo...???

SirSilvia

04-17-2009, 08:51 PM

Does anyone here use a micrometer to measure the old shims to determine what size shim to go with when doing this mod or is everyone doing inni minni mini mo...???
I broke my old one and never use em enough to justify buying a new one.

bardabe

04-24-2009, 01:28 PM

sorry to bump and aold thread but looking at the parts list it shows the 01/1990+ Twin turbo and 07/1990 N/A to use the same shim.. I'll be giving this a go in a few weeks. i wore down my VLSD pretty bad at inland Drift... i was doing 1 tire Fires at the end of the night.

nsn240

04-28-2009, 04:16 PM

Is a r32 gts-t diff the same as the r200?

SlowPokeCoupe

08-25-2009, 01:49 PM

Is a r32 gts-t diff the same as the r200?

I am wondering the same thing. I just traded my welded dif for an r32 vlsd and am thinking about shimming it... I wonder if the shims everyone else is using will work.

let5l1de

08-26-2009, 11:41 PM

Just felt like adding some other pics I though would be nice to include on this thread:

2003 350z

To compliment your illustrations with a j30 vlsd...

btw: changing the shims to thicker or doubled up shims only increase the gear engagement on the internal spider gears ( 4 of them) which may be the blame for a ratcheting rear diff. This noise goes away once you have worn new patterns into the side and spider gears. in other words, Grinds The Metal and increases the friction/grip.

when you take the tolerances out of the factory gear setup, who cares what side the shims go on. should be the same long term result.

it does make a cheap 1.5 at the expense of a long living rear diff...

your choice.

~m

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3552/3861445654_80b394c0f1.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2534/3860662949_9f6b7f95c7.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2493/3860662861_c87a2f128d.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2518/3861445316_6d736d9ebf.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/3861445230_9bba96e1d9.jpg

EDIT: this ring gear is from a 240sx 49:12. j30 come with 47:12
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2514/3860662511_4b326ffa36.jpg

niteridaz503

09-09-2009, 11:22 AM

:newbie:
Hey guys quick question, this is my 1st time cracking a diff open and im not to mechanically inclined :confused: so as im putting the diff back together i cant put the shafts that go into the VLSD back into place i can get one side in but not the other. Does this maybe mean when i put the 2 phillips screws back into place i unaligned the ring gear some how? any info would help alot thankz....

EDIT UPDATE:
Its freakin awsome just did a few figure 8's and its good to go. I had some issues with the splines because the viscous coupler splines ended up shifting to where the shafts that go into the VLSD wouldnt line up but re-did everything and its really worth it and a great mod by far and recomend it to anyone who cannot afford a fancy 1.5 or 2 way like me....

nsn240

09-30-2009, 09:05 AM

just picked up a shimmed j30 for pennies, dropping it in as soon as i get coils.

What are ya'll runnin for oil? 75w90?

gregom

11-29-2009, 08:30 AM

Sorry to bring an old thread back to life but i'm really considering doing this to my 350Z. My concern is the spider gears overtime... has anyone opened their diff back up after using this mod for a few months or more after track day abuse? Unfortunately my Z is my daily driver so I don't want to do anything that could affect really reliability.

Now if the spider gears will indeed get worn over time, can they be replaced rather easily? Also why kind of issues can I expect trying to drive with worn spider gears?

gregom

12-04-2009, 05:44 PM

No one??? Who has had this mod on their diff for at least a few thousand miles or more? Any negative side effects or problems?

Spring Break '92

12-05-2009, 06:54 AM

This is also interesting for me, I would like to hear from some people who have daily driven on this modification since they last posted and hear what they have to say about the longevity. That being the only thing to stop me from doing this. I think that if I do decide to do this mod that I am going to buy 3 or 4 shims in the middle range, measure the one that is in my diff now and base my decision on which one to use off of that. Thing is, what thickness was the original one in the diff of the o.p.?

gregom

12-12-2009, 07:47 PM

Com'on guys someone has to have this mod in their drift machine...

rb20hatch

12-18-2009, 06:54 AM

how long does it take to brake in the thrust washer? i just did mine wednesday and it still feels like a welded diff.

rb20hatch

12-18-2009, 06:57 AM

i did some drifting that night after i got done putting it in and its raining all day and night tonight so im going to drift the shit out of it tonight, i dont mine the welded diff feeling as longs is it goes away because i know it needs to be broken in, i also daily drove a sc300 with 2jzgte swap and that wasnt fun at all

SoSideways

12-18-2009, 07:17 AM

I'm pretty sure that's the whole point, for the VLSD to feel like a welded diff, except only spending a few bucks and a few hours of your time.

gregom

02-20-2010, 11:50 PM

Still wondering if anyone had any probs with this mod... I'm going to be changing out the bushings on my diff next weekend and am considering doing this mod while i have the diff out.

motegineon

02-21-2010, 02:27 AM

there are no problems besides people whining because their diff is locked

Spring Break '92

02-21-2010, 03:42 AM

I'd still like to hear from someone whos had this done for a considerable time frame, a year or more, to see how their diff is now compared to when it was first done, problems, etc.

gregom

02-22-2010, 09:26 PM

Does this mod make the same clunking sound as a real LSD does at low/tight cornering speeds?

datsunnazi

03-05-2010, 11:28 AM

automatics have multiple clutches, though i am not sure if the nissan 240 automatic trans is that type..

it could also be a typo

go home! you're retarded! they are talking about the clutch type rear differential. not the clutch or the automatic clutch packs... learn please!:down:

Carbomb

03-05-2010, 11:45 AM

only way to learn is to do it yourself.

shim it up.

Sil-Eighty SE-K

03-30-2010, 09:57 AM

Im about to do this to my z32 diff..... same part no. washers?

also im looking for a hard lock but still streetable setup as its a DD

should i just add a .8 shim to the one in there or get a 1.49 (or 1.25?) and replace the one in there

jonathan.bayspeed

09-19-2010, 11:31 PM

great write-up

Mtndrifter14

09-22-2010, 01:14 PM

To all the questions. I forgot how long ago I wrote this thing, I have since sold my 240 over a year ago but the current owner is running the same diff and it has 10k+ miles on it and he is loving it. Except he blew up my sr :-(

Carbomb

09-22-2010, 01:58 PM

Im on mine still...
love it
this is a few days ago. and I did the swap yr ago?
I drive daily. put on 15k from nh to boston every few days.
GET SOME!
B on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/15110147)

Slidin' Sam

09-23-2010, 04:08 PM

Yes, r32 diff's are r200 casing.

I can't believe that nobody here actually measures their tolerances with a micrometer. If you add too many shimm's you could grenade the diff.

Also, where is everybody getting this 1.5 way stuff from? You will rather have a open diff, VLSD, or a fully locked diff with a little bit of play compared to a welded diff. A true shimmed diff is often considered the two way of a locked diff world...that is to say it is more forgiving than a welded diff, but by no means a clutch type diff as far as daily driving characteristics.

I have had several shimmed diffs now and never had any problems. I use one in my solely dedicated s14 race car. I had it in my old s14 that was a daily driver/weekend drift car too. It can be a bit of a pain in the ass daily driving, but if find that if you physically shift into neutral (not just pushing the clutch in) and coast around a corner, it is 100 times smoother than just trying to drive around a corner with a shimmed diff.

The only problem I have seen with a shimmed diff was the shimm wearing down and the diff stopped locking (only spun one wheel). To me, this is much better than having a welded diff go bad, because you can still drive home!

Remember, people have been shimming diffs in Japan for a LONG time. People don't weld diffs over here very often (as welding is a bit more pricey) and probably because shimmed diffs are safer/reliable. In fact, the only people that I know who run a welded diff are some D1 drivers.

I hope my input helps answer some of the questions and doubts that I have read in this old thread.

Slikk Logic

10-12-2010, 09:08 AM

Im on mine still...
love it
this is a few days ago. and I did the swap yr ago?
I drive daily. put on 15k from nh to boston every few days.
GET SOME!
B on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/15110147)

i think i need a bigger backyard so i can do that^ but which shim sizes did u use?

SicBastard

10-15-2010, 09:55 AM

So the replacement shims vary from 0.80 to 1.49 mm. I've been told that adding just one of the thinnest shims will be nothing like a 2-way, but just more like a new VLSD. Which is exactly what I want. This car is purely for grip, and will never see a drift event. I want as little decel effect as possible. Should I just steer clear of this, or go for the single 0.80? I could also try and come up with a combination of shims that are only 0.40-0.60 thicker than whatever stock shim is already in there.

Slikk Logic

10-17-2010, 09:51 PM

idk but ima put the .8 shim in and ill let u kno.im on a open diff now :/ prolly lyk next week ill throw up the vlsd

Slikk Logic

10-28-2010, 11:57 AM

btw the .8 gave me a completely solid rear.(welded feeling) hopping and skipping.very rough kicks into drifts great though lol

jigga1boy

10-29-2010, 09:42 AM

hey guys, I picked up a vlsd recently, but people convinced me that it will just turn into an open diff faster than i can blink. after reading this I would like to go this route as I am not a total baller like some.

I drive a s13 93 hatch open diff uni driveshaft 6 bolt output shafts

I picked up a s14 95 abs vlsd.

Ive done some research an the abs vlsd pumpkin shouuld be too long to fit under my car with no clearance for the drive shaft to fit.

I thought about swapping internals, would this be ok?! any problems or fabricating I will run into? I know I have to swap back covers, and need half shafts if they didn't fit but I got the half shafts and also the axles just in case.

irax

10-29-2010, 11:51 AM

go home! you're retarded! they are talking about the clutch type rear differential. not the clutch or the automatic clutch packs... learn please!:down:

LOL! Really? :coold: :coold: :coold: sorry infliction and tone was illegible to you.

rightcoastimports

03-03-2011, 01:49 AM

About to do this to my VLSD.. Factory shims can vary from diff to diff.. but im just curious what shim (thickness) you guys ended up using? .80 enough?

MrFairlady

03-05-2011, 11:45 PM

I Kinda wanna try this as well.My VLSD Sucks ass.

what I'd like to know is I would Love to Get the OEM 4.6 Final Drive Gear set to drop in as well.
will it go into a J30 diff? Its a R200 so I would Think it should right?

krayzbigmac

03-06-2011, 01:01 AM

About to do this to my VLSD.. Factory shims can vary from diff to diff.. but im just curious what shim (thickness) you guys ended up using? .80 enough?
I went .80 on my z32 diff that I had in my s13, I stacked it on top of the original shim. Was nice as daily and locked pretty nice at the track. All depends on how much the original shim is worn.

HyperVerbal

04-08-2011, 05:09 AM

huh... you'd think by now someone would have replied "REMOVE your old shims on both side (14&17 of diagram) replace them both with (blank) & (blank) for 2 way or (blank) & (blank) for 1.5.

Darren

04-08-2011, 08:22 AM

huh... you'd think by now someone would have replied "REMOVE your old shims on both side (14&17 of diagram) replace them both with (blank) & (blank) for 2 way or (blank) & (blank) for 1.5.

This is not really possible, because most diffs are setup differently. Depending on wear, setup, original shim sizes (to account for the difference in original gear sets), crush sleeve settings, etc..

You just have to open yours up, measure and adjust accordingly, if it's still not where you want it, redo it with a bigger shim...

This is nothing new here folks, it's just Diff 101

S12 Drifter

05-08-2011, 10:57 AM

How is this comparable to a 1.5 way? I want something to track not drift with.

Has anyone tracked their Shimmed VLSD's how did it feel around some twistys? I'm about to do this on my Z31 because my diff blew apart but I'm a bit hesitate because i dont want the diff to be locked all the time like a welded diff (whats the point minus well just buy another open diff and weld it)

S12 Drifter

05-12-2011, 03:03 PM

I'm not "shimming" it per say but I'm adding a new shim.

old shim/washer was 1.35 factory, new one is going to be 1.49, just for the record I'm not stacking them the 1.49 is replacing the 1.35mm

I'll let you know how it feels.

My$800S14

06-24-2011, 01:39 PM

i messed up, i cant figure out which side the longer axel goes into? is it the side were the ring gear bolts to the pumpkin? or the other side? and the long axel is stuck on the opposite side of were the ring gear is.

jigga1boy

06-27-2011, 01:31 AM

Crap wish i remembered. Maybe the manual has a diagram of which ones go where

Bubba

07-26-2011, 10:00 PM

My diff sucks ass. Thank god I found this write-up.
Adding a shim while the car is down but I'm just going with the small one as well since welded diffs fall out the sky around here. Rather have the 1.5 way feel than anything else.

dontxploitme

08-01-2011, 11:32 PM

where is everyone getting their shims? i looked at a bunch of nissan parts websites but they all want like $10 for shipping which is retarded for something that small and that light.

Bubba

08-05-2011, 10:21 PM

Taking mine from another diff actually. If that doesn't do it I'll order one from the local stealership.

WhiteZenki23

09-23-2011, 02:01 AM

S12 drifter any updates ??

Bubba

10-14-2011, 07:34 PM

Tip for those that think the center section had to be forced out...
Put your fingers through the output shaft holes and press up on the center section. Lifts right out with little to no effort. Just shimmed 2 J30 units this evening. After it is out of the car it takes about 10-15 minutes at most to disassemble and reassemble.

future

10-14-2011, 08:30 PM

I want to do this. I think I'm just going to measure mine then go from there to see if I want to double, or just replace with a bigger one

S-Nation S13

10-16-2011, 07:37 PM

sweet !!! i know this isnt in any way a complete replacement for 2 way.. but from what ive been reading..this seems to be a good way to get the vlsd to lockup consistently lol !!!!

future

10-20-2011, 10:04 PM

I want it to lock up like a 1.5 rotifer not a two way or welded. I'm still iffy on what size

holslut s13

12-29-2011, 03:52 PM

I mic'd both shims on my j30 vlsd, and one came in at .80mm(stock from what ive heard) and the other is 1.22mm. Instead of buying another .80mm and stacking, I bought 2 larger shims that were equal to the total thickness of the 1.22+.80+.80. Ill let you know how it works out guys.

bc.

01-03-2012, 11:35 AM

Don't think about shimming as 1 shim is 1.5 way and 2 shims is 2 way!!!! There are like 20 different shim sizes and the smallest one is .80mm and the largest is 1.49, read the fsm for the exact sizes.

DO NOT JUST ADD 2 SHIMS!!! that is not the right way to do it. Take apart your diff and measure what you have and then decide how much you want to increase by.

I just tried to put 2 shims in (both were .80mm) and the diff would not go back together in the pumpkin, so 1.60mm of shimming is too much!!! and that is 2 shims of the smallest size. I ended up just using the one .80mm shim and it barely fit back in the pumpkin, i couldn't imagine going more then .20mm more.

I am about to install it and will let you know how it feels.

Black R

01-04-2012, 10:10 AM

I thought the viscous diffs just had viscous fluid engaging the plates inside the housing, thus transferring torque between the 2 wheels?

If so, there shouldn't be spider gears turning and being meshed and destroyed, no?

From nrr:

OK, I'm ready to stir the pot :D

Here's the diagram for the VLSD diff on page PD12;
http://www.240edge.com/manuals/91-94_240sx/pd.pdf

The VLSD does still have spider gears. The viscous coupling forms one side of the spider gear. One axle stub is fixed to the outer case of the VLSD coupling and the other stub is fixed to the inner case of the VLSD coupling. The "SHIM" selection guide is on page PD25 and gives a range of backlash, not pre-load. If you pre-load the spider gears, any change in LSD action you get is from grinding the spider gears against each other, not any change in the function of the VLSD coupling.

The VLSD coupling is filled from the factory with a viscous fluid. The function has already been explained. I have actually, really, for sure, experimented with one of these! When the units are filled from the factory, they drill two counter-bored holes to fill it, then they insert ball-bearings into the counter-bores and stake them in place. I removed the balls and tapped the two holes. I then flushed the old fluid out and replaced it with newer, thicker fluid. The VLSD was installed into a Z31 300zx running about 400WHP! It would work much better than a stock VLSD until it got hot. When it got hot it would lock solid and act like a spool. I did some research on this phenomena and the general theory is that when the interposing discs get hot enough, they expand, distort, and bind against each other. Our conclusion was that we couldn't make the VLSD any more effective.

Ultimately, if you're using a VLSD/HLSD/open diff, you need articulation/droop in the rear suspension and roll-stiffness in the front suspension, to keep the rear tires on the ground. If you're running a clutch/spool diff you can ignore this to some extent and drive on one wheel, at least until your power output overloads your outside rear wheel. Then you're back to the same place ;) My buddy with the Z31 went around the world with LSD's, but came back to his shocks/swaybars/camber/toe/tire pressure settings to maximize corner exit.

This really helped my understanding of the vlsd

Hashiriya415

01-04-2012, 02:04 PM

where is everyone getting their shims? i looked at a bunch of nissan parts websites but they all want like $10 for shipping which is retarded for something that small and that light.

I'm searching too. Unbelievable $10 and up for shipping. If I knew the size I would make my own right now. Maybe I even have a close enough washer in my garage somewhere.

bc.

01-04-2012, 06:08 PM

You guys aren't anywhere near a Nissan dealership are you? they didn't charge me shipping when i bought mine.

holslut s13

01-16-2012, 09:52 PM

@ Bc, how did your vlsd lock up with the .80 shim?

And Nissan sells these ppl! Go to your local dealership, no charge for shipping...

apexis13sx

06-07-2012, 11:10 AM

I'd like to see this done on a 350z diff

Inputs? ???

KoolAidMan687

06-20-2012, 12:17 PM

holslut s13

06-20-2012, 12:25 PM

hey guys does anyone know what size washers come in the r200 stock, i put what im pretty sure is the .8mm in a while back and now im trying to take it out because it was to harsh for my daily driving, there seems to be two .8mm's and one larger one

From what has been said here, it will vary alittle bit from diff to diff, but from my stock vlsd(if you take a moment and read my previous post) I measured both of my stock washers.

holslut s13

06-20-2012, 12:34 PM

In my diff I have a preload total of 2x1.25mm washers totaling 2.5mm and my diff is completely locked. My wheels do not spin independently under any circumstances. I just started to run a new wheel/tire setup that has more traction, and maybe I can regain some free wheeling once the bigger washers "break in" as some users say.

240SilviaX

09-15-2012, 02:50 PM

EDIT: this ring gear is from a 240sx 49:12. j30 come with 47:12
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2514/3860662511_4b326ffa36.jpg

I see that you used the 240sx 49:12 ring gear on the vlsd. I still have a KA and want to go up to Big Bear (7000ft) so I want more torque going up the mountain.. I got a J30 diff from the yard and want to take the vlsd add a shim and swap the ring gears and install it into my 240sx carrier. Do to the the J30 47:12 ring gear being fatter the vlsd would be shimmed (bearing and race shims) over like the open (240sx skinny ring gear) diff. My question is once the diff is installed will the axle output shafts line up with the snap rings in the vlsd? or would they be not lined up due to the vlsd being shimmed over like the open diff because of the skinnier ring gear?

240SilviaX

09-15-2012, 03:25 PM

Just measured my stock shim out of the J30 and its 1.13 (0.0445) and any input on what size I would get for a DD with mountain/track days. I dont want it locked all the time just pretty stiff. I have a few buddys with welded and 1 with a Kaaz 2 way, the welded its way too much for a DD and the Kaaz.. well I can use that money for something else ;)

holslut s13

09-15-2012, 04:37 PM

I added a .80mm washer to mine, which IIRC is one of the smaller sizes and my j30 is pretty much locked up 100% of the time. Use a smaller washer if you don't want an essentially welded diff.

240SilviaX

09-16-2012, 01:36 AM

So I tried to stick the 96 J30 vlsd with the open diffs 93 240sx ring gear (to maintain the 4.08 gear ratio instead of the 3.96 J30s) into the 240 S13 carrier and with the same shimming (diff bearing race) as the open diff the gears meshed perfectly, checked with that yellow paint. The left (short) shaft fit perfectly but the right (long) doesn't. It sticks out about a 1/4" to 1/2" out from the seal. I don't want to install it that way compressing the axle. So does anyone have any ideas? Or do I just have to use the J30 ring gear (3.96 ratio) which is fatter making the diff bearing shimming position to the stock point causing the axle output shafts to fit?

240SilviaX

09-25-2012, 01:35 AM

So I have figured out the problem, made everything fit with the 4.08 ratio w/ the J30 axle output shafts, and ordered the last 1.43mm (0.0563) 38424-40F81 shim in the US (according to the parts guy @ Surf city Nissan) and I tried to order the 1.37 (0.0539) 38424-40F79 and that one was not available. But for only $5.93 can go wrong. Cant wait for the part to get here so I can finish this lil project. I also got the JDM style diff cover from FRsport with the xtra fins, and some SS brake lines for my Q brakes.

KoolAidMan687

09-25-2012, 10:52 AM

i did this and then my ring and pinion gear straight blew up, it worked amazing as a LSD though

240SilviaX

09-25-2012, 11:00 AM

What did you do? Cuz i mentioned a few things.Or you just shimmed the diff?

EvoVIII808

10-07-2012, 08:33 PM

Just did mine.
J30 VLSD
Stock Shim size : 1.27 -1.30 on the micrometer (kept bouncing around, went down to 1.25 once). I picked up the .08 and the 1.01. Tried to put both of them on but the 2 screws didnt seat properly, so i decided to use just 1 shim.
I went with the 1.01, on top of the stock. Its not fully locked, but it does skip the tires when turning at low speeds. Havn't done the break in process yet (installed and drove home 5miles.)

koukistylejdm

10-10-2012, 09:50 AM

Just felt like adding some other pics I though would be nice to include on this thread:

2003 350z

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/zilvia_album/SP32-20090410-123847.gif

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/zilvia_album/SP32-20090410-123643.gif

Ive did that mod with the thikiest shim on top of the existing one and we had to ask a machine shop to reproduce thinier shims for the one on #21 in that pic just as an info..... 3 years rocking on this, and the ratcheting sound never stopped, still looking strong imo and def the best 4$ i have spend in my life

240SilviaX

10-10-2012, 10:39 AM

# 21 is the carrier bearing shim for meshing the ring and pinion/spacing of the vlsd unit in the carrier like if you changed to a different size ring gear like I did then you would need to mess with those..did you mean #14 and #17? are the thrust shims that tighten up the vlsd unit. @ Evo808 my stock shim size out of my J30 was 1.13 and the other one around a .80. I think every J30 has its own diff sizes from the factory. What I did cuz I didnt want such an aggressive rear end (canyon/mountains) is measured the slack with the stock shims in place with a feeler gauge. so there was .20mm in slack and I added up the 1.13 shim size and added .10 more for stiffen it up and got 1.43... 1.13+.20+.10=1.43 and conveniently there is a 1.43 shim and went and ordered. I have only driven the car around the neighborhood with no chirping or ratcheting. Still need to go on a better test drive w/o a slipping clutch to get a better feel of this diff. plus I still have the other shim that I replaced and if needed to tighten up a lil more I can pop it in. Who else is running a different gear ratio on the J30 vlsds 3.96. I have the 4.08 ring off the open.

EvoVIII808

10-10-2012, 10:52 AM

Mine was a 49:12
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8037/8065435109_e21038525b_z.jpg

I didn't really do any measuring or anything. Just sized up the gap, and threw the 1.01 in.
I still have the .80, but as of right now i dont need it. Once this one gets broken in ill see if i want to lock it up more.

240SilviaX

10-10-2012, 11:15 AM

So since the 3.96 (47:12) gear being thicker than the 4.08 (49:12) gear, the ring and pinion spacing needed to be changed to mesh correctly. On mine the vlsd unit had to be spaced onto the other side of the carrier by arranging the bearing spacers. doing that one axle output shaft stuck out about a 1/2" cuz of the different spacing, anyone else had that problem?

koukistylejdm

10-10-2012, 11:35 AM

no the # 17 is where i added the shim, after that the pumpkin didnt fit back in its hole so i asked the machine shop to made 3 diffrent size thiner than the one that was there ... i just dropped in the one thats fitted there

koukistylejdm

10-10-2012, 11:39 AM

and btw when we did that we didnt measure nothing just put a 1.xx shim into it

if it doesnt fit back in swap one of the #21 shims for something thiner thats it (chow bye)

240SilviaX

10-10-2012, 01:30 PM

Adding a #17 shim shouldn't add width to the pumpkin itself since when you torque the ring gear bolts it goes back to the stock width specifications since its compresses the internals which gives you the after market lsd feeling. unless you have a gap and the punkin is not completely together. Mine took the same bearing shim sizes. They are supposed to be tight against the races. Did you use oil when installing them? cuz they wont go in when dry. In the FSM they show that they use a #21 shim installation tool that you use a hammer to tap them in. Hopefully your bearings are close within stock specifications and wont wobble around in there cuz of the smaller shim space.

240SilviaX

10-13-2012, 01:26 PM

[QUOTE=EvoVIII808;4942329]Mine was a 49:12
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8037/8065435109_e21038525b_z.jpg

Did you use the J30 axle output shafts with the J30 vlsd with a 240 open ring gear. Cuz I had to machine my axle shaft to fit.

EvoVIII808

10-14-2012, 03:28 PM

Not sure, it had the J30 in it when i got the car. i just opened it up, threw the shim in, put it back together and drove off. haha
ill see if i can get more info on it.

iRONDONkey

11-13-2012, 05:29 PM

anyone still rocking this?

how has it been?

HyperVerbal

11-14-2012, 06:43 AM

running 4 shims. 2 on each side of the diff. j30 vlsd and jdm silvia vlsd shafts not compatible with eachother. 300zx and j30 share same internals. will post update.

NJs13_1993

11-14-2012, 07:45 AM

Subscribed so I can find this later for my s13 haha. Thanks for the write up

240SilviaX

11-14-2012, 10:09 AM

anyone still rocking this?

how has it been?

Yea, sould of installed a thicker shim. But I have the original shim Im going to stack on cuz I was to conservative on the shim size

240SilviaX

11-14-2012, 10:11 AM

Mine does not lock up @ all, it does when the car is in the air but the weight of the car easily makes them slip

iRONDONkey

11-20-2012, 03:32 PM

ultimateirving

11-20-2012, 04:26 PM

i have this problem.

i'm using a j30 vsld, in a s13 pumpkin.

the long axle shaft won't sit flush, but the short fits fine.

how do i fix this?

Get the other short from the other pumpkin

240SilviaX

11-20-2012, 05:13 PM

i have this problem.

i'm using a j30 vsld, in a s13 pumpkin.

the long axle shaft won't sit flush, but the short fits fine.

how do i fix this?

I put the long shaft in a lathe and cut down the tapered spot where the seal rides (make sure you dont remove the spot the seal rides) and made a groove where the snap ring would fit in the new position. Read back a lil bit ^^

240SilviaX

11-20-2012, 05:14 PM

Get the other short from the other pumpkin

The short one wont work if its from an open diff, he would need one from a 240 vlsd

240SilviaX

11-20-2012, 05:21 PM

Oops I guess I didnt mention it,, but ya not recommended unless you have good mechanical experience and with lathes and know exactly where to cut it. Ill upload a pic when I can

240SilviaX

11-20-2012, 05:31 PM

http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u530/Eric_Typner/IMAG1989.jpg

http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u530/Eric_Typner/IMAG1994.jpg

PJherring

12-03-2012, 12:57 AM

Mine does not lock up @ all, it does when the car is in the air but the weight of the car easily makes them slip

How conservative where you on the shims? What was the total increase in shim width compared to the stock shims that where in there?

240SilviaX

12-03-2012, 10:06 AM

Read reply #128

240SilviaX

12-03-2012, 10:10 AM

Update ...it will lock up making left turns while getting on it when its wet ,, turning right its a lil harder to break it loose but my big tire size 255/40 zr17 will want to grip more than slip.. perfect for me in the canyons

Bambi

01-05-2013, 11:37 PM

Going to bump...

Read the whole thread and by the looks of it everyone is using the J30.

BUT I just recently bought an original S13 VLSD. Has anyone who also has one shimmed there's? What size shim did you use? Stack or replace? Experince, etc.

I have it just sitting on a chair and am thinking of shimming it because the guy who had it before me really used it so I'm going to assume the silicone is pretty broken down by now and I don't want to put it in and be disappointed and pull it out again.

I DO NOT want a welded differential feel/act. I want something that can still get both wheels going and is okay to daily.

Jtuned_andy

01-05-2013, 11:58 PM

I dont know how this can be considered an acceptable practice by any respectable car tuning community.

By incorrectly shimming the differential you are causing strain on the gear mesh. this will cause unnecessary wear on the gears, heat build up, and possibly failure of parts under certain circumstances.

if the engineers at the factory had thought this was a good idea, you wouldn't be hunting around on the internet for a $5 mod to lock up your differential better.

thats my 2 cents as someone who actually has experience working with differentials and transmissions

Bambi

01-06-2013, 12:38 AM

1. Welcome to Zilvia/the 240sx community.

2. Most people here just got a cheap J30 differential and haven't reported any extreme failure. I myself haven't heard of such a thing yet. Worst case scenario you drive home with an open diff vs. having a welded diff and not being able to go anywhere.

3. I don't understand what you're trying to get at with that statement. All of us do things to our cars that weren't intended to be done and that also harm or wear the car/part/system that is modded. Such as boosting a KA or going crazy with suspension mods to get more angle. Cheap diffs with a cheap mod to be most likely used to abuse the car itself anyways.

4. I respect your input but here, on this forum, the majority drifts and ruin their cars. :P

As for myself I'm just sick of an open diff, bought a VLSD for $80 and just want to get both wheels going.

holslut s13

01-07-2013, 01:16 AM

2. Most people here just got a cheap J30 differential and haven't reported any extreme failure. I myself haven't heard of such a thing yet. Worst case scenario you drive home with an open diff vs. having a welded diff and not being able to go anywhere.

i did this and then my ring and pinion gear straight blew up, it worked amazing as a LSD though

You really should go through all the pages of this thread before asking stupid questions that have been broached already. Me and other members have gone over shim sizes used in previous posts.. C'mon jus read bro

ov1989

01-07-2013, 01:19 AM

sub'd i will need to look at this very soon

EvoVIII808

01-07-2013, 08:50 AM

3 months into my shimmed diff. at first it was was full locked, and now its alot like a 1.5. No problems to date.

Bambi

01-07-2013, 11:17 AM

You really should go through all the pages of this thread before asking stupid questions that have been broached already. Me and other members have gone over shim sizes used in previous posts.. C'mon jus read bro
Okay. Thanks for posting your concerns opinions while providing zero help or benifitial input. I will now go read every page, every post, every paragraph, every sentence, every single word, and when I'm done I'll write a brief essay and we can go over it and you can let me know how stupid or well put together it is. We'll keep in touch, bro.

3 months into my shimmed diff. at first it was was full locked, and now its alot like a 1.5. No problems to date.

Nice! J30 or s13 VLSD? If you dont mind me asking.. Did you stack shims or just replace the one you had? You seem to have the effect/setup I'm trying to go for (1.5 or close to and NOT a 2 way or welded feel). Just not sure of I should stave shims or replace what I have with one larger one.

EvoVIII808

01-07-2013, 01:30 PM

Nice! J30 or s13 VLSD? If you dont mind me asking.. Did you stack shims or just replace the one you had? You seem to have the effect/setup I'm trying to go for (1.5 or close to and NOT a 2 way or welded feel). Just not sure of I should stave shims or replace what I have with one larger one.

I have J30 with 1.01mm stacked ontop of the stock (1.27mm) It was fully locked for about a month but drives and feel alot better now. You also get alittle more noise from the diff but nothing bad. (i have everything stripped out so mine may be louder then others) Can see some of the info on page 5. took me about 2hr 30min to do. Was my first time so i took my time, measured everything, and checked everything twice.

240SilviaX

01-07-2013, 06:09 PM

Bambi, 1st off do you want to drift your daily or mountain/canyon run your daily? 2nd, the 240 and J30 vlsd unit is pretty much the same besides the ratio (ring gear) and the position that the vlsd unit inside of the case because of the thinner(240) and fatter(J30) ring gears so the bearing shims (look @ post #127, part 21) are used in different spots to make the ring and pinion mesh correctly (edit{ and the axle output shafts are different sizes due to the differences of ring gear thickness}). And obviously the casing is different due to the S14/J30/Z32 mounting style of the diff to the sub frame and the ABS sensor. If you want to drift look at Evo's and holslut's posts and you can find that their combos of shims make the diff lock up,, If you read my post #128 ill even copy and paste it for you,,>>"" my stock shim size out of my J30 was 1.13 and the other one around a .80. I think every J30/240 vlsd has its own diff sizes from the factory. What I did cuz I didnt want such an aggressive rear end (canyon/mountains) is measured the slack with the stock shims in place with a feeler gauge with the unit together. so there was .20mm in slack and I added up the 1.13 shim size and added .10 more for stiffen it up and got 1.43... 1.13+.20+.10=1.43 and conveniently there is a 1.43 shim and went and ordered from Nissan. I have only driven the car around the neighborhood with no chirping or ratcheting. Still need to go on a better test drive w/o a slipping clutch to get a better feel of this diff. plus I still have the other shim that I replaced and if needed to tighten up a lil more""..
Now I have driven this car with a brand new clutch with the shimmed vlsd for 2 months.. its nice, no grinding or chirping. will lock up most of the time on a wet surface not hard but just enough to get you sideways.. and I only added .10mm of shim after the slack was accounted for. I could of added more like .30mm over (not adding that size shim on top of another , ex, (stock shim[1 side] 1.13) +(.20 slack I measured with feeler gauge)+(.10 what I thought would be enough to tightened it up)=1.43mm which is nissan part # 38424-40F81 ..with a lil searching online you can find the 20 or so sizes/part# you can order from nissan.. If you have any questions you can ask me @ the Irvine meet .. Holslut has a valid point if you have read everything you would of noticed that everything in this post has been mentioned somewhere in this thread,, no need for attitude,, just sayin. hope this was enough info for you to start on your vlsd ..

240SilviaX

01-07-2013, 07:01 PM

I wonder if KoolAidMan687 shimmed his bearings correctly or left it how they were with the J30 ring gear , cuz if he didnt shim the bearings correctly when using the 240 ring causing improper mesh or the ring and pinion are far apart from each other causing broken teeth leading to failure.. you got to make sure that your gear mesh is within spec or that will happen

Bambi

01-07-2013, 11:03 PM

I have J30 with 1.01mm stacked ontop of the stock (1.27mm) It was fully locked for about a month but drives and feel alot better now. You also get alittle more noise from the diff but nothing bad. (i have everything stripped out so mine may be louder then others) Can see some of the info on page 5. took me about 2hr 30min to do. Was my first time so i took my time, measured everything, and checked everything twice.
Yeah I plan on taking my time as well. Well thanks for the feedback, I've been writing out a couple notes and just added some of your info with sizes/etc..

Would like to drift my daily but if possible still have something reasonable to drive through a canyon without having the rear end trying to slide out. But again, drifting is the goal/priority so if a "happy medium" can't be somehow met a shimmed set up for drifting it is, just not all out aggressive. I would like to have something daily friendly and still be able to get both wheels going when trying to drift dry or wet. ...if any of that makes sense.

Anyways, being that I have an S13 VLSD I wont have to mess with the ring gear, output shafts, etc. That that would mean I'm really just taking it out, opening it up, checking which shim I have and then either stacking or replacing it with a larger one (all sizes depending on what I originally have), putting everything back together and done? And the shim to change/stack would be #17? (as seen below)

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u159/zilvia_album/SP32-20090410-123643.gif

Also the only thing I don't think I totally grasp is correctly measuring the slack. I understand I'll need a feeler gauge to do so but that's about it. That threw me off a bit. I was thinking just taking the O.G. shim measuring it and then just finding out what size I'll need to stack on top of it and done? Having trouble visualizing it.

And you have 1.43 but that won't lock up very well right? So for my 'need' I believe would have to go bigger than 1.43 and more so into the realm of EvoVIII808 of 2.28 (1.01 + 1.27) or just barely below that.

And finally, thanks for putting up with my shit. I'll buy a drink or a snack or something from somewhere by the meet on Weds. You've been a great help with this.

edit: also this kind of goes for anyone/everyone to answer... did you guys go by factory torque specs when putting everything back together or just tighten it down to what you thought was good? i.e. using the numbers from above.

240SilviaX

01-07-2013, 11:26 PM

#'s 17 and 14 is what out need to measure.. the slack is what the vlsd has worn down between the shims and mating surfaces due to wear over the 16-20 or so years of use, you measure with a feeler gauge to get a measurement of what has been worn down. then you add that measurement to your #17 shim size then add about .30mm to .60mm to that and you can find your shim size or combo of shims to get to that size..

240SilviaX

01-07-2013, 11:43 PM

always use factory torque specs.. very important,, been working on cars for a living since HS

Bambi

01-07-2013, 11:45 PM

Ah! Okay NOW I get it. I'll be getting to work on it tomorrow, thanks again.

240SilviaX

01-07-2013, 11:51 PM

take pictures with your phone of the internals and the vlsd unit together so i can point out where to measure it... when you measure the slack sit the vlsd on the ring gear bolts side down (bearing on floor/bench) and you should see the the #14 shim and stick the feeler gauge in between the gear and shim or between shim and casing

240SilviaX

01-08-2013, 09:41 PM

bambi ,, did u still need the ash tray ?? if so I will bring it tomorrow nite

Bambi

01-08-2013, 11:58 PM

Alright will do. Today I didnt get to make any progress other than drain the diff completely and take the cover off and just as I did that I had to go to class so my day consisted of that and work.

And how much for that ash tray?

240SilviaX

01-09-2013, 12:44 AM

$10,,,,,,,,

Bambi

01-09-2013, 11:34 AM

$10,,,,,,,,

Alright cool with me dude

240SilviaX

01-09-2013, 05:45 PM

Jtuned_andy ,, do you really think drifting is acceptable practice by any respectable car tuning community?? dropping the clutch/ clutch kicking, slamming gears,, redlining for multiple seconds on end, burning your tires, yanking your ebrake causing flat spots and stretching your cables (if not hydraulic), smacking walls or flying off of course causing body damage ect.ect. I think over shimming a diff is the least of our worry's and its a cheaper solution to dropping a grand on a LSD that might break after heavy use?? $100 or $1000? your choice as it is ours ..

240SilviaX

01-09-2013, 05:55 PM

PS I been a mechanic since my senior year of HS.. Ive worked at body shops, Midas/ exhaust , Firestone, some ma and pa shops, to building 600+hp dart block small block fords and Mustang GT's and Cobra's at my current job so ya coming from someone with mechanical experience I think its fine.. and if does break then Ill go pull another from the yard for $50 ;)

Bambi

01-12-2013, 11:44 PM

Just did mine.
J30 VLSD
Stock Shim size : 1.27 -1.30 on the micrometer (kept bouncing around, went down to 1.25 once).

Same exact story here, except it didn't go as far down as 1.25. Just between 1.27 and 1.30. I too also bought the 1.01 and a 1.49 (didn't/don't think I would use but still handy maybe someday) but being that we seem to share the same stock size shim and you ended up with the results I'm looking to get I think I'll follow in your foot steps and throw the 1.01 in there. :w00t:

EvoVIII808

01-14-2013, 05:54 PM

just Remember It Will Be Full Lock atfirst

Bambi

01-14-2013, 07:25 PM

Yeah I understand, hopefully for not too long but I'm wiling to put up with it for a bit as long as the end result is what I'm hoping for.

psychos13

01-16-2013, 12:13 PM

how much life till it wears out?

EvoVIII808

01-16-2013, 03:21 PM

how much life till it wears out?
Unknown, i dont beat on my car much. Mostly drive it to and from work. It hasnt been on the track in 3yrs. so with daily driving im assuming it will last a life time.
And if the shim gets to worn down, open up the diff and replace it or buy a cheap diff and do it all over again.

Bambi

01-16-2013, 05:58 PM

Okay so today I made the first attempt at putting the VLSD into the stock/open diff. pumpkin...

After a few attempts, mallet, and a brass hammer I got in there all snug. By the look and feel of everything there seemed to be a good amount of backlash too. But after finding and using the dial indicator I found out my back lash was of by 1 1,000th so I took everything out to start over. It seems like I'll need the vlsd to be slightly more to the left to correct the back lash so I've taken my shims from both the original open diff. and VLSD diff. and measured all of their thicknesses with a micrometer. I'll be putting everything back in with a different combination of shims this time having a thicker one on the right side and a slightly thinner one on the left to get it to slightly shift the whole unit in the correct position to HOOOOOOOOOPEFULLY correct my backlash and bee within factory spec. Then I'll take some gear paint and check the pattern and if all goes well I'll have a perfectly functioning diff. without any whining and extreme wear. :D

ghoti

01-16-2013, 07:22 PM

how much life till it wears out?

The same as having and Un-shimmed diff. All shimming does is "engage/lock" the diff much quicker.

Life expectancy depends on how you drive your car.

Bambi

01-16-2013, 07:41 PM

The same as having and Un-shimmed diff. All shimming does is "engage/lock" the diff much quicker.

Life expectancy depends on how you drive your car.

No, not exactly. Yes to how you drive the car but for example the post I just made was on backlash (which is in other words, 'play'). If you have none at all or too much then you're going to advance the wear of the differential. And when I say no I mean more so that re-assembly is where you have to be worried and not so much on the actual shimming of the diff..

Now I know I did basically come off as "dgaf drift car bro" but in all seriousness yes, if you don't do this correctly you'll likely increase the rate of wear of your gears and possibly have a weird contact/pattern (which you can check by looking at the pattern that's already on the ring gear and using some gear paint to see if it has the same original pattern )and between them and you'll have that annoying whine x100000. And again, all this shit is cheap anyways so fuck it do what you want. I bought the s13 vlsd for $80 and the spare/extra open diff. for $10 so say I fuck up I wont be all that devastated.

Hope I made at least some sense, typing on a tiny iPhone 'keyboard' is a bitch.

Daviticus

01-17-2013, 10:13 AM

The same as having and Un-shimmed diff. All shimming does is "engage/lock" the diff much quicker.

Life expectancy depends on how you drive your car.

Wrong.

The "locking" everyone speaks of is the incorrect mesh between the spider gears causing an internal bind. This ACCELERATES wear on the spider gears and they will eventually wear thin, or break. Its' the same concept as the OBX LSD insert for open diffs - it presses outward against the spider gears and cause bind against the case, causing the desired lock-up.

But, like everyone has said, it's a cheapo diff, so no harm no foul if it breaks.

-edit-

Previous post in this thread as visual aid for my explanation: http://zilvia.net/f/s-chassis/200226-shimming-r200-j30-vlsd-3.html#post2992103

ghoti

01-18-2013, 05:11 PM

Wrong.

The "locking" everyone speaks of is the incorrect mesh between the spider gears causing an internal bind. This ACCELERATES wear on the spider gears and they will eventually wear thin, or break.

Incorrect mesh between spider gears has to do with backlash, which is determined on how you put the washers back on when assembling the diff.

The "locking" happens inside the VLSD sealed unit.

ballsy240

03-05-2013, 10:36 AM

bumping an old thread, but just got my vlsd in today and cracked it open to see what size shim was in there and it appears that the stock one in there is so worn down it has bonded with the metal behind it and is unable to be taken off. has anyone else seen this? could this be from the diff having high miles? and same as everybody, i want an aggressive lock, but no chirping around corners, so i'm thinking that i should add two .8 shims. i have one on its way, but thinking about it now, i don't think it'l be what quite what im wanting. any input?

holslut s13

03-05-2013, 11:17 AM

240SilviaX

03-05-2013, 11:59 AM

read a bit and you will be more than informed :)

ballsy240

03-05-2013, 12:01 PM

yeah, i read entire thread. been wanting to do this for a while. mainly wanted to see if anybody cracked theirs open and found what i did

ballsy240

03-11-2013, 03:35 PM

UPDATE: There was not a washer on the other side as well although it looks like there is a wear spot where there used to be one. I'm wondering if i should add 3 (.8) shims now to get it to where it should be with adding one like the op

ballsy240

03-20-2013, 12:10 PM

FINAL UPDATE: since there was no shims at all in my unit when i opened it up, i decided to do 2 (.8) shims and 1 (1.1) shim. I swaped the shimmed j30 unit into my s13 open pumpkin and it feels pretty good. I would maybe want it a little tighter, but for me it works out perfectly for my daily driver/drifter. It basically feels like a brand new lsd. just wanted to add my expirience

MattRose

05-02-2013, 09:54 AM

240SilviaX

05-02-2013, 09:09 PM

I added a .80mm washer to mine, which IIRC is one of the smaller sizes and my j30 is pretty much locked up 100% of the time. Use a smaller washer if you don't want an essentially welded diff.

lol its stated about 100 times on how much shim you need to use to lock up the rear or bind up the rear.. there is also info on how to have a mild rear end.. I recommend reading these 7 pages so you will know everything (or most) about the vsld.. your r33 vlsd is pretty much the same as a J30, S-Chassis, Z32, Q45 ect. with minor differences. they all for the most part have 2 factory shims

MattRose

05-08-2013, 12:39 PM

I read through the entire thread but the answers differed on all accounts. Yes there were many people who said they locked theirs up, but some of the shim thicknesses changed, alongside the amount that were put in depending on which side the shim was put on.

S12 Drifter

05-08-2013, 12:43 PM

lol its stated about 100 times on how much shim you need to use to lock up the rear or bind up the rear.. there is also info on how to have a mild rear end.. I recommend reading these 7 pages so you will know everything (or most) about the vsld.. your r33 vlsd is pretty much the same as a J30, S-Chassis, Z32, Q45 ect. with minor differences. they all for the most part have 2 factory shims

you need to pull a micrometer our and ACTUALLY measure. when i was doing my Q45 hybrid VLSD i had to pull it apart roughly 10 times to get it the way i wanted.

EvilRB

05-08-2013, 01:15 PM

Hey guys,

So my r33 has the factory viscous in it and I'm trying to get it to lock up like a two way/welded. I use this for drifting and don't care how it feels on the street, I just don't want to compromise the track performance. From what I've read, the skyline shims are in both sides, so my question is, what size shims are the Gus running that are fully locked up?

http://240sxdrifter.tripod.com/writeups/vlsdshim.html

For the R33 specifcally but is the same for all R200 diffs, just add thicker shims and follow the directions. If it's too much add thinner ones...

MattRose

05-08-2013, 01:29 PM

Exactly the answer i was looking for! Thanks a lot man!

240SilviaX

05-08-2013, 07:48 PM

, Matt just buy a couple of different sizes and experiment like S12 Drifter said,, It doesnt matter what side you put the shim on, its all doing the same thing, that write up is funny 1.5 , 2 way lol its not a clutch diff ,, its just gets tighter the thicker you go.. by adding more shims you bind the spider gears and eventually get a locked rear end .. as for the measuring, I measured my original shims and went from there cuz I know every diff has different sized shims from the factory or if it has been rebuilt in the past.

bc. wrote; Don't think about shimming as 1 shim is 1.5 way and 2 shims is 2 way!!!! There are like 20 different shim sizes and the smallest one is .80mm and the largest is 1.49, read the fsm for the exact sizes.

DO NOT JUST ADD 2 SHIMS!!! that is not the right way to do it. Take apart your diff and measure what you have and then decide how much you want to increase by.

I just tried to put 2 shims in (both were .80mm) and the diff would not go back together in the pumpkin, so 1.60mm of shimming is too much!!! and that is 2 shims of the smallest size. I ended up just using the one .80mm shim and it barely fit back in the pumpkin, i couldn't imagine going more then .20mm more.

EvoVIII808 wrote;
J30 VLSD
Stock Shim size : 1.27 -1.30 on the micrometer (kept bouncing around, went down to 1.25 once). I picked up the .08 and the 1.01. Tried to put both of them on but the 2 screws didnt seat properly, so i decided to use just 1 shim.
I went with the 1.01, on top of the stock. Its not fully locked, but it does skip the tires when turning at low speeds. Havn't done the break in process yet (installed and drove home 5miles.)

Matt, buy a couple of shims, measure your stock shims and decide on how much shim to add also you might want to measure the slack in your diff b4 you start stacking shims like I wrote;
I think every J30 has its own diff sizes from the factory. What I did cuz I didnt want such an aggressive rear end (canyon/mountains) is measured the slack with the stock shims in place with a feeler gauge. so there was .20mm in slack and I added up the 1.13 shim size and added .10 more for stiffen it up and got 1.43... 1.13+.20+.10=1.43 and conveniently there is a 1.43 shim and went and ordered.
Yes I know I didnt want a locked rear end but you should measure and add .30 to .80 of shim to get the feel you want and take note of how much slack there is