Tapping the valve cover

[burnsauto]

Hey guys, I'm going to get rid of the tee fitting on my s13 sr valve cover, and replace it with a -10 tee before sending it out to TRG Coating, so later on when i make my oil catch system, its good to go.

now my question.

I've looked around for a 3/8" NPT to -10 Tee fitting, but I'm pretty sure they don't exist. Every 3/8" I've seen is for -8 line, which I don't want to use. NOW - All the -10 Tee's I see, can come in 1/2" NPT, is 1/2" NPT going to be too big for the valve cover (is there enough material for it to be tapped?)

any info would be appreicated:)

[Def]

You can thread a 3/8" NPT steel fitting right into the existing T fitting. 1/2" NPT calls for a 0.141" larger drill bit(45/64"), so I imagine there's enough material to do it, but whether it'll stand up vibration or someone resting their hand on the T fitting - who knows. It'll be cutting it relatively close IMO, but if you're dead set on -10 AN lines, then that's probably the only option.

[blueshark123]

i would go with -8an better

[Def]

A 3/8" NPT fitting has the same ID as a -8 AN line, so you really aren't losing out on much. The stock lines going to and from the stock T have restrictors in them anyway, so I'm not sure why people are so set on -10 AN breather hoses other than it's "the usual size."

[louisdaboois]

you could get a 3/8" to -8 fitting, then a -8 female to -10 male joiner (i guess thats what it'd be called?)

[98koukile]

It's all restricted by the initial size so keep it all 3/8 and -8 and you'll be fine, if you have your heart set on making it bigger than drill away, its not going to kill your cover but it may not help as much as you think

[burnsauto]

Could you guys tell what size line is used in this pic? Its a little hard for me to tell. I plan on running a very similar setup (just with a third line running to the back of the intake with an in-line check valve)

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d115/slavetopaint/IMG_2491.jpg

[Def]

Looks like a -10, but could be a -12.

With incorrectly assembled hose ends I might add... I guess the fear of scratches keeps people from putting their purse down and actually getting them to the correct tightness.

[burnsauto]

Looks like a -10, but could be a -12.

With incorrectly assembled hose ends I might add... I guess the fear of scratches keeps people from putting their purse down and actually getting them to the correct tightness.

yeah the ring in the middle is missing, right? (im still kinda new to -AN line)

now that i know its not -8 line, do you think the tee fitting off the valve cover is a 1/2" NPT to -10/-12

[Def]

No, they're improperly assembled because they didn't finish tightening the nipple into the ferrule. There's probably a 3/16"+ gap there, when it should be 1/16" or less. I'm talking about the gap between the blue/red parts.

It very well could be a 1/2" NPT fitting going into the valve cover, doesn't look like there's much left around it.


Question though - why are you so set on -10 AN lines?

[burnsauto]

No, they're improperly assembled because they didn't finish tightening the nipple into the ferrule. There's probably a 3/16"+ gap there, when it should be 1/16" or less. I'm talking about the gap between the blue/red parts.

It very well could be a 1/2" NPT fitting going into the valve cover, doesn't look like there's much left around it.


Question though - why are you so set on -10 AN lines?

2 reasons..

1. lots of catch tanks are designed for -10 sized line, so this would make it easier if i decided to run an off the shelf catch can
2. the other part is looks

posi rep on the assembly info though:)

[Def]

Most catch cans have 3/8" NPT inlets from what I've seen - which is the same ID as a -8 AN line as was said.

I guess -10 is the usual size, so good luck with the drilling a tapping. Use lots of lube when tapping, and hope you can get your tap in there deep enough. NPT tapping is kind of a PITA if you can't let the tap go through the workpiece by a good bit.

One little bit of advice - The price is attractive, but Harbor Freight taps really suck, so a higher priced/quality tap makes the job MUCH easier.

[Master Chief]

Here you go : 3/8NPT to 10AN -
http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index.php?shop=&dept=Aluminum

Part number - 981611

Mine is a Black Top VVT, but this should work for you as well.

The hole in the cover is 16mm, but at its end, it shrinks to about 11mm.

I used a 15.5mm drill bit to drill the hole in the valve cover all the way thru.

If you dont use a drill to enlarge the hole all the way thru, you wont be able to run the TAP deep enough to get a good tread for the adapter.

I used 15.5mm, as i didnt want to risk enlarging the hole more the 16mm.
I then used a 3/8 NPT tap, wich wen in very smoothly to tap the hole.

Another thing is that most 3/8NPT to 10AN adapters, have an ID of about 10mm on the NPT half, and and ID of about 12mm on the AN half.
I used a 12mm drill to go thru the adapter to make it all the way 12mm ID.
You dont have to do this, but as i was already on it, i thought i would make all the passages as big as possible.

Here you can see how it looks on the Rear of my Valve cover. The same goes for the middle of the cover.

http://www.max-tuning.com/gallery/mypics/sr20det/cover-earls.jpg

BTW Catch cans, wich one do you have ?
Some of the catch cans, like GREDDY's and other Jap makers, dont hae 3/8" NPT, but have 3/8" BSPT ports !
Basicly the difference is in the number of threads per inch - its offset by 1 thread.

I have the Greddy one and what i did is simply run the 3/8" NPT tap, thru the Catch can port treads, and it works fine with the above 3/8"-10AN adapter.

Remeber to clean all those tapping and drilling chips, after the act - before you install anything.

Good luck !

[burnsauto]

Master Cheif - thanks, but i was looking for a Tee fitting. BUT. that did get me thinking...i may just use that, along with a swivel -10 Tee fitting (with the female end on the branch) this way I can have the setup I want, without sacrificing anything besides a few more dollars:)

Posi rep for all those who helped:)

[Def]

You thought of just welding a -10 bung or two on the valve cover? Might be easier/cleaner after all is said and done. They're only a few bucks each.

[WoolyS14DET]

Here you go : 3/8NPT to 10AN -
http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index.php?shop=&dept=Aluminum

Part number - 981611

Mine is a Black Top VVT, but this should work for you as well.

The hole in the cover is 16mm, but at its end, it shrinks to about 11mm.

I used a 15.5mm drill bit to drill the hole in the valve cover all the way thru.

If you dont use a drill to enlarge the hole all the way thru, you wont be able to run the TAP deep enough to get a good tread for the adapter.

I used 15.5mm, as i didnt want to risk enlarging the hole more the 16mm.
I then used a 3/8 NPT tap, wich wen in very smoothly to tap the hole.

Another thing is that most 3/8NPT to 10AN adapters, have an ID of about 10mm on the NPT half, and and ID of about 12mm on the AN half.
I used a 12mm drill to go thru the adapter to make it all the way 12mm ID.
You dont have to do this, but as i was already on it, i thought i would make all the passages as big as possible.

Here you can see how it looks on the Rear of my Valve cover. The same goes for the middle of the cover.

http://www.max-tuning.com/gallery/mypics/sr20det/cover-earls.jpg

BTW Catch cans, wich one do you have ?
Some of the catch cans, like GREDDY's and other Jap makers, dont hae 3/8" NPT, but have 3/8" BSPT ports !
Basicly the difference is in the number of threads per inch - its offset by 1 thread.

I have the Greddy one and what i did is simply run the 3/8" NPT tap, thru the Catch can port treads, and it works fine with the above 3/8"-10AN adapter.

Remeber to clean all those tapping and drilling chips, after the act - before you install anything.

Good luck !




I know it's off topic but do you have any more pics or this motor ?? I would like to see it !! It's boner riffic !!! :wackit:

[Master Chief]

burnsauto - i was actualy talking about tapping the cover for a 10AN - after that you have unlimited options, like you said - using Earls part number - 925110 will give you you AN10 Tee fitting.

http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/images/4795_925104.jpg

About pictures of my engine, i have plenty more, i just dont want to go offtopic.
I'll open a pics tread later on. Thanks.

[Inland180]

Im doing same thing! This is very helpful!! thanks guys for the info!

[burnsauto]

burnsauto - i was actualy talking about tapping the cover for a 10AN - after that you have unlimited options, like you said - using Earls part number - 925110 will give you you AN10 Tee fitting.

http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/images/4795_925104.jpg

About pictures of my engine, i have plenty more, i just dont want to go offtopic.
I'll open a pics tread later on. Thanks.

see...i thought about that, but couldnt find any taps for -10 line... are they out there or do you know the size/pitch of the tap i would need?

as far as a catch can, if i decided to use an aftermarket for a temp setup, it would prob. be a cusco one...i used to have a greddy, but couldnt find a mounting spot for it that i really liked. (the older style block one)

[Def]

http://www.holley.com/data/TechService/Technical/Thread%20Sizes.pdf

AN thread sizes. They're just standard SAE threads. If you're screwing an AN fitting into a piece without a flare for it to seal on, you need to put an o-ring on the fitting for it to seal. You want a chamfer on the edge of the hole for the o-ring to seal on.

[WoolyS14DET]

burnsauto - i was actualy talking about tapping the cover for a 10AN - after that you have unlimited options, like you said - using Earls part number - 925110 will give you you AN10 Tee fitting.

http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/images/4795_925104.jpg

About pictures of my engine, i have plenty more, i just dont want to go offtopic.
I'll open a pics tread later on. Thanks.



PM me the link !! Please ??

[Def]

That's just a -10 AN tee with a female swivel on the tee(male fitting on the run - the straight section).

You can get it anywhere - not uncommon at all.

[Master Chief]

see...i thought about that, but couldnt find any taps for -10 line... are they out there or do you know the size/pitch of the tap i would need?

as far as a catch can, if i decided to use an aftermarket for a temp setup, it would prob. be a cusco one...i used to have a greddy, but couldnt find a mounting spot for it that i really liked. (the older style block one)

As we said above - You dont need a tap for 10 line, you will need a 3/8" NPT tap, to tap the Cover, as i did in my example for an adapter - 3/8"NPT-10AN.

These Taps are widely used and easy to get.

Then simply use the above 10AN TEE adapter, to connect to the Adapter you tapped for on the cover.....

From there you will have to make up 2 braided hoses, to go to each side of the Tee 10AN fitting... Simple.


As for the catch can, you could use the location of the CANISTER if you removed it, like i did.

Here is a picture of my previous engine - it was without the braided hoses at the time.
You can see the Greddy catch can on the low right side of the picture:

http://www.max-tuning.com/gallery/mypics/sr20det/1st_engine.jpg

[burnsauto]

Well thats prob what im going to do... I just would of liked to find a tee fitting that was -10 and 3/8" without having to use 2 separate fittings, that is why i was looking into the thread size/pitch for a -10 (since you can get a -10 tee all the way around...that would cut out the need for 2 different fittings. but since looking at the actual size of a -10 fitting through the link that def posted, realized that its larger than 1/2" NPT, and wouldn't solve my problem.)

So the plan as of right now is using a 3/8" NPT tap, to a -10 swivel tee fitting. It may stick out a 1/4" further out (compared to a normal tee fitting), but if thats what I have to do..

the stock catch can is long gone.
the catch can placement wont work for me in that spot. this is an s13 sr im working on, so the hot pipe is different. Its much easier to convert things to -AN fittings on an s14 valve cover, the entire s13 SR crankcase ventilation system is stupid and barely does anything... Hence my need/want to improve it.

[Master Chief]

I see. You are looking for something like this - http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/images/7252_982503.jpg
with a 3/8 NPT..... Unfortunatly i dont think you will find the above with 3/8 NPT - but you can get it with 1/2 NPT.
Part number : 982510

This way you will need to tap the cover for 1/2" NPT - it shouldnt be a problem, you will simply need to enlarge the hole a bit using a drill.

You could allso get the above with 3/8NPT but with 8AN..... Its allso a good option, as i belive the 8AN id's would be suficiant as well.

Just a few more options for you....

[burnsauto]

I see. You are looking for something like this - http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/images/7252_982503.jpg
with a 3/8 NPT..... Unfortunatly i dont think you will find the above with 3/8 NPT - but you can get it with 1/2 NPT.
Part number : 982510

This way you will need to tap the cover for 1/2" NPT - it shouldnt be a problem, you will simply need to enlarge the hole a bit using a drill.

You could allso get the above with 3/8NPT but with 8AN..... Its allso a good option, as i belive the 8AN id's would be suficiant as well.

Just a few more options for you....

All this you just stated, was in my first post i made :keke:

i did my research, i didnt go into this blindly... I was just wondering if someone had another resource i didnt look at yet/option i didnt think of quite yet...but everyones been a big help

i took out the stock tee fitting yesterday, def. not enough material to tap for 1/2" NPT, and just enough for 3/8" NPT. I'm not doing the tapping myself, im bringing it to a machine shop that does it quite a bit, so i know it wont get screwed up. I've done taps before, but i'm never satisfied with the outcome, always a little too sloppy for my standards... so i know when to step aside and pay someone 15 bucks to do a good tapping job.:)

[Def]

BTW - that's where I run my catch can on my S13 SR setup. You need some 90 deg hose ends, but there's enough room. I have a bolt going through the sheet metal by the driver's side pop-up light going to a tapped bracket attached to the can.

[Master Chief]

Well if you let somone else do it, remeber to have them drill the hole in the cover, all the way thru - this way the fitting will sit as close as posible to the cover, and not stand out with only half the treads in.....

Show us how it came out at the end !

[s15specR]

Here you go : 3/8NPT to 10AN -
http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index.php?shop=&dept=Aluminum

Part number - 981611

Mine is a Black Top VVT, but this should work for you as well.

The hole in the cover is 16mm, but at its end, it shrinks to about 11mm.

I used a 15.5mm drill bit to drill the hole in the valve cover all the way thru.

If you dont use a drill to enlarge the hole all the way thru, you wont be able to run the TAP deep enough to get a good tread for the adapter.

I used 15.5mm, as i didnt want to risk enlarging the hole more the 16mm.
I then used a 3/8 NPT tap, wich wen in very smoothly to tap the hole.

Another thing is that most 3/8NPT to 10AN adapters, have an ID of about 10mm on the NPT half, and and ID of about 12mm on the AN half.
I used a 12mm drill to go thru the adapter to make it all the way 12mm ID.
You dont have to do this, but as i was already on it, i thought i would make all the passages as big as possible.

Here you can see how it looks on the Rear of my Valve cover. The same goes for the middle of the cover.



BTW Catch cans, wich one do you have ?
Some of the catch cans, like GREDDY's and other Jap makers, dont hae 3/8" NPT, but have 3/8" BSPT ports !
Basicly the difference is in the number of threads per inch - its offset by 1 thread.

I have the Greddy one and what i did is simply run the 3/8" NPT tap, thru the Catch can port treads, and it works fine with the above 3/8"-10AN adapter.

Remeber to clean all those tapping and drilling chips, after the act - before you install anything.

Good luck !

Looks great, I had a few questions on the lower portion of the line how do you connect to that hard line ?


Also I have the VVT notch top as well, what di you do in the front part, did you cut the little piece that sticks out off and then tapped it like the rear ?

[Master Chief]

You have a few options to connect to the hardline.
I had an 10AN Steel fitting weld, welded to it while the hardline was off the block. (Remeber that you have to remove the head to have it off).

Another option is to use some kind of hard line tubing adapter, like : Earls #-165110
http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/images/3952_165008.jpg

You would probably need to trip part of the OE hard line, as it has a lip at the edge, that you'll have to remove.

As for the Front par of the Vavle cover - you do not need to cut anything - the nipple simply comes out if you pull and turn on it.
I tapped it just as i explained in the previous posts.

[Def]

The correct way would be to use a tube nut and sleeve and flare the line to 37 degrees with a flaring tool. Then use a union to go to a hose.

[Master Chief]

That is a good option, but kind of hard to do with the steel pipe on the engine and the engine in the car.

Allso, there isnt very high pressure, or any fluid flowing thru that hose, so flaring it is a bit of an overkill for its application.

[Def]

I flared mine to -12 while it was in the car. You can do -10 if you cut the bead off the pipe.

I don't see how it's "overkill" vs. welding a bung to the pipe as is... except that you don't risk snapping the bung off when torquing anything down - which can definitely happen.

[Master Chief]

Welding is more overkill, offcours. But as i said, i had the pipe off the car at the time, and it is cleaner, cheaper, needs less space - than the above methods.

Allso, you are not suposed to TORQUE AN fittings down and even if you did - the WELD will hold much more torque than an aluminium AN fitting will, before its damaged permanatly.

Anyway, do it, whatever way its simpler for you..... Dont invest too much money or thought in it, as its really not that big of an issue with this hose.

[burnsauto]

ok guys, as promised, I'm keeping you updated with the progress. I finally got around to ordering my gang of AN fittings for my oil cooler setup, and figured I'd get the -10AN Tee with the female screw on adapter on the neck of the fitting, along with using a 3/8" NPT to -10 adapter. After mocking it up next to the valve cover, I realized it was going to stick too far out for my liking (about 3" off the valve cover). So...I've decided to do what most people suggested, and will run -8 line, and get a smaller Tee fitting with 3/8" NPT on the neck, which will have the fittings much closer to the valve cover.

It was just one of those trial and error things of building cars...I'm not upset or anything, just something you learn along the way..if the worst part of it is having spent 40 bucks on two fittings....then thats fine with me, no biggy. (anyone want the fittings? lol)

Luckily, I found out my local speed shop started carrying almost every Earl's fitting in stock, so I should be picking up the new tee/fittings/line tomorrow.

I'll post up some pics later tonight of the -10 tee fitting, showing how far it sticks out.

EDIT: pics:)

The fittings, Yuengling bottle cap for scale.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d115/slavetopaint/IMG_2531.jpg

Mocked up on the valve cover..
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d115/slavetopaint/IMG_2534.jpg