Is this shit legal?

[Phlip]

I went to vacuum my car yesterday, and the car wash is next to a gas station, I looked up and noticed something I thought was fucking strange.
http://i31.tinypic.com/2ez64gk.jpg
Notice, it says "$3.89 Regular Cash" and "$3.99 Regular Credit," and there is a placard on every pump saying that the price is higher for credit than it is for cash.
My question to those of you versed in legalese to help me here, is it legal for them to do this shit? Granted, I have not gotten anything but beer from this store, even though it is only 1.5 miles from my house, in months.

[pch]

I went to vacuum my car yesterday, and the car wash is next to a gas station, I looked up and noticed something I thought was fucking strange.
http://i31.tinypic.com/2ez64gk.jpg
Notice, it says "$3.89 Regular Cash" and "$3.99 Regular Credit," and there is a placard on every pump saying that the price is higher for credit than it is for cash.
My question to those of you versed in legalese to help me here, is it legal for them to do this shit? Granted, I have not gotten anything but beer from this store, even though it is only 1.5 miles from my house, in months.

x2....seen that on some Shell stations here in Phoenix, AZ

[eastcoastS14]

for some reason i think i remember seeing that somewhere around here

[NiSmo240luvR]

they do this shit at a couple gas stations near my house as well. however it is usually only the small ones, not anything major like shell, exxon etc...

my guess is that its not technically legal, but they get away with it. just how some places put a minimum limit on how much can be charged onto a credit card. which is illegal in nj, but places get away with it. no clue how that works. i understand why the places do it, but i dont understand why they can get away with it.

[IIIXziuR]

Yeah that seems to be the new shit man.
Like every other gas station is like that over here now too.
I always pay in cash but it stinks for the bros that pay with plastic.

...is it legal? I guess so otherwise these chumps are really sticking it to everyone.

[JRas]

I've never seen it

I pay cash everytime anyways

[mr_240sx]

i remember seeing that last summer when i went to Virginia to pick up my car.....shit is redonculous.

[mRclARK1]

I'm pretty sure it's legal. Basically they're just trying to charge a fee for using plastic. It would be like if I owned a business (say a restaurant) and wanted to charge a fee for using a debit machine within my place of business? No one has the right to tell me I can't do so... It's my business after all.

I agree it's pretty stupid though.

[BustedS13]

pretty sure they can do what they do, it's their store. if you don't like the prices you can always go up the street, until they start pulling the same shit...

that's a real dick move, though. everybody buys gas at the pump now.

[VROOOM]

what if your using one of thier credit cards. they are just fucking you twice.

[AnarchX]

Forreals. It's a free market, they can charge $10.00 a gallon if they feel like it. But like mRclARK1 mentioned, it's a difference they charge to cover the fees the incur through credit transactions. I do agree it's bullshit, as it would be a higher fee the larger your gas tank is. What they SHOULD do is follow Arco's footsteps and charge a flat fee. I believe theirs is .45 cents. A helluva lot better than an extra .10 cents a gallon, I say.

[Phlip]

It's an independently owned station, they don't have a credit card.
Besides, gas cards are issued by a larger bank (Citi, Capital One, HSBC, etc...) so they're more tag-teaming you than screwing you twice.

[mRclARK1]

It's an independently owned station, they don't have a credit card.
Besides, gas cards are issued by a larger bank (Citi, Capital One, HSBC, etc...) so they're more tag-teaming you than screwing you twice.

If it's an independently owned station, they can definitely do it. If it was a franchise of a larger chain, they could do it, but the company itself would have to make that decision and would likely stop any franchise holder who tried doing it independtly. Holding a franchise is a contract, owning your own private business means you can do whatever the hell you want with it.

[MELLO*SOS]

would have to review the Mastercard, Visa, Amex, Disc and JCB terms of service. Sometimes they have rules against things like this because it discourages people from using their cards. While it's probably not illegal it might be in violation of their merchant account TOS.

They're trying to do this because with a $0.25 auth fee plus 3% of each transaction it's costing them an extra $1.50 to sell you $40 of fuel than if you paid with cash... Reminds me of all the people in the FS forum wanting $xxx + 3% for paypal LOL.

Unless you're working as a waiter or coke dealer who keeps enough cash on them to fill their tank? I always pay with my debit card...

[ayuaddict]

nobody noticed how ridiculously cheap the gas is?

even paying with credit.

[BustedS13]

nobody noticed how ridiculously cheap the gas is?

even paying with credit.

uhoh, sounds like we've got a whiner

i just filled up for 3.77

[ayuaddict]

man.

fuck California.

[iROYAL]

would have to review the Mastercard, Visa, Amex, Disc and JCB terms of service. Sometimes they have rules against things like this because it discourages people from using their cards. While it's probably not illegal it might be in violation of their merchant account TOS.

They're trying to do this because with a $0.25 auth fee plus 3% of each transaction it's costing them an extra $1.50 to sell you $40 of fuel than if you paid with cash... Reminds me of all the people in the FS forum wanting + 3% for paypal LOL.

Unless you're working as a waiter or coke dealer who keeps enough cash on them to fill their tank? I always pay with my debit card...

That sounds reasonable.

I was watching the t.v. while pumping gas at 76 and they make different profit numbers when people pay with Cash and Card (card being a little lower)...I think that's to compensate them:smash:


I'm probably wrong tho?..

[MADE]

#1 $ 4.70 better be diesel in N.C !!!


I first noticed this in Cali and it kills me because I never carry cash anymore. Alot of people use Dedit/check cards and the I thought alot of companies wanted this because it cuts down on people attending and accepting cash from customers. But the gas stations use this against you.

[mRclARK1]

nobody noticed how ridiculously cheap the gas is?

even paying with credit.

man.

fuck California.

Some have it worse. To me, your gas prices are cheap.

[drift freaq]

the crack spread between Gas and oil is so narrow right now, the gas stations and the refiners are not making shit. The Crude sellers are the ones making money.

[iROYAL]

the crack spread between Gas and oil is so narrow right now, the gas stations and the refiners are not making shit. The Crude sellers are the ones making money.

I would have to agree..if that commercial or whatever I was watching were true..gas stations profit somewhere around $0.11 cents with every gallon bought with cash and $0.07 bought with the card...somewhere around there...

then again..it could have been misleading me

[Gnnr]

A quick google brings

406. Can the merchant charge credit-card users more than cash customers for the same item?

In a word, maybe. In a few more words, probably, if the merchant
goes about it the right way.

The Federal Truth-in-Lending Act prohibited surcharges on credit-
card purchases until 1984; since then, there has been no Federal law
on that subject. (Other provisions of the law are still in force.)
The states of CA, CO, CT, FL, KS, MA, ME, NY, OK, and TX have laws
against surcharges, according to Bankcard Holders of America.

Discover allows surcharges on credit-card purchases, except in the
above states. Visa and MasterCard prohibit them. American Express
discourages them in general, and specifically prohibits them by
merchants that also take MasterCard or Visa because Amex doesn't
allow merchants to discriminate against it.

There is a loophole: merchants are allowed to give cash discounts.
This means in practice that they can't charge you more than the
labeled price if you pay by credit card, but they can charge you
less if you pay cash. Some companies announce (usually in tiny
print in the catalog) that all prices "reflect cash discount" of x%
so credit-card users must pay x% more than the stated price; this
may be legal but it certainly violates the spirit of the law or the
regulations. I don't know about the "service fee" charged credit-
card users for things like ordering tickets over the phone, but
they're certainly not allowed to charge you a higher price in person
than if you pay cash.

The other loophole, according to Bankcard Holders of America (BHA),
is this. Certain government agencies are by law not allowed to pay
"discount fees," which are the processing fee the bank charges
merchants for handling credit-card slips. Since the banks won't
handle these for free, if your state lets you pay license fees by
credit card you may well have to pay a surcharge for the privilege.
However, BHA says that there are no exceptions for retail merchants

Depending in what state it may be illegal. It is a definite violation of the merchants agreement with the credit card companies, and if you do report it to the credit card company they can have their agreement terminated. Of course sometimes there are loopholes they use like it says above.

[dirtdiggler666]

the big stations are doing it to, i needed to get gas and shell was the cheapest as soon as i go to pay its like 10-15 cents more expensive i was fucking pissed

the new way to fuck people even more

[slw240sx]

would have to review the Mastercard, Visa, Amex, Disc and JCB terms of service. Sometimes they have rules against things like this because it discourages people from using their cards. While it's probably not illegal it might be in violation of their merchant account TOS.

They're trying to do this because with a $0.25 auth fee plus 3% of each transaction it's costing them an extra $1.50 to sell you $40 of fuel than if you paid with cash... Reminds me of all the people in the FS forum wanting + 3% for paypal LOL.

Unless you're working as a waiter or coke dealer who keeps enough cash on them to fill their tank? I always pay with my debit card...


actually resturants and gas stations get a different merchant agreement then normal retail business's. when i ran a pizza restaurant we paid .75%-.95 on transactions no .25$ fee. gas stations probably have similar percentages maybe more in the .95-1.25% range. the pay at the pump might be higher due to customers not having to sign for it.

if your a business and you are paying 3% on a CC transaction you are with the wrong merchant company. i dont think im paying $.25 per transaction either more like $.15.

jon

[projekt_s13]

Wow gas is fucking cheap! I just filled up at 4.65 a gallon.

Ive seen that before around here, there is this gas station near my old job that gives you a discount if you pay in cash. Which is pretty cool, like lets say gas is 4.20a gallon and you give the dude 40 bucks he types in that you gave him 41-42 bucks so you get more gas.

[SW20Racer]

ok, i read phlips post and thats it.

here in alabama (and in mississippi) its not illegal.

when you pay for something with a credit/debit card the store gets charged a fee, and depending on which service they subscribe to, the charges can vary wildly.

so they pad the price to make up the difference. its like on zilvia when people are like "add $3 for paypal"

its especially popular in truck stops too. because truckers always use a card.

[KingKong8247]

Every gas station around here in Jersey does this. Only the small stations don't charge you more for using a card.

The stations that have cards also charge you the cash price if you use thier card.

[Phlip]

According to the Mastercard Merchant Violation form:
http://www.mastercard.com/us/personal/en/contactus/merchantviolations.html
charging a minimum amount to be allowed to use MC -AND- charging more for the use of the card are against the rules, so I reported them.
The fact here is that the fees that MC and Visa charge merchants, as well as that paypal fee, are THE COST OF FUCKING DOING BUSINESS!!! If someone disputes a charge on paypal and someone requested the buyer to add the fee, then the dispute would almost automatically go to the buyer.

[status:one]

They're trying to do this because with a $0.25 auth fee plus 3% of each transaction it's costing them an extra $1.50 to sell you $40 of fuel than if you paid with cash... Reminds me of all the people in the FS forum wanting +

I thought this was right.

[RiversideS13]

my exgirlfriend's family owns gas station, their profit margin per gallon is from 1 cent to 16 cents depend on how you mark your price, so the credit card fee does hurts the profit margin. you might wonder how they get rich from 1 cent profit margin, money is earned by rebates from the fuel company when they sell to a certain quota and also traffics in the snack stores.

they didn't do this cash thing because credit card transaction is easier for them to manage

i just past by a gas station marked $4.90 for 91 octane

[atom]

I see this all the time at computer stores. Discounts for cash purchases. Note that this is legally different than charging someone for using a credit card, although the result is more or less the same. I don't have a problem with it for low profit margin businesses.

[I10cruiser]

yeah they charge you to use a card. .nice plot to get you inside the store and pay cash plus trick you and sell you stuff!

[!Zar!]

blah blah blah I've seen gas stations do that before.

[Nismo ZJ]

At least they warn you before hand. Around here some gas stations only have the cash price up on the big board. If you don't double check the pumps you get screwed.

[slidingsky]

They've been doing it will diesel since it turned over 3.00 per gallon. Major and independent gas stations.

[LeftNutOfGowd]

Man i wish gas was $3.89 here im paying $4.66 this s**t's ridiculous, and they say it might go up to $5.00 by the end of june that means it will take $75.00 to fill my tank

[qwikspool]

there was a 76 gas station over here last year that charged .10 cents extra for using credit card at their pump.
right now they are getting renovated
first gas stationed i seen that charge so much to use credit cards at their pump.

[just1pepsi]

I know stores get charged a fee based on the amount swiped, the higher the amount, the higher the fee. With Gasoline I understand that the station itself doesnt make much profit on it. Therefore you would have the potential for a station paying more in fees to Visa/MC/etc for someone paying with their card than the profit they make on the gas. Of course they will pass the cost on to the consumer. --another way high gas prices are jacking up the price of everything else.

I guess its legal?

Nevermind, I guess I dont know wtf I'm talking about.. the fee part was heresay, evidently other more knowledgable folks have chimed in. I guess its the same idea though.

[MELLO*SOS]

actually resturants and gas stations get a different merchant agreement then normal retail business's. when i ran a pizza restaurant we paid .75%-.95 on transactions no .25$ fee. gas stations probably have similar percentages maybe more in the .95-1.25% range. the pay at the pump might be higher due to customers not having to sign for it.

if your a business and you are paying 3% on a CC transaction you are with the wrong merchant company. i dont think im paying $.25 per transaction either more like $.15.

jon

Yeah I just guessed at what their rate might be. As for the wrong merchant, it depends on your industry. I have a high risk merchant account and we pay 3.5% + $0.25 (online soft goods); our low risk merchant account is around $0.15 + 2.5% for online hard goods... Both are excellent rates for my industry, dunno what a convenience store/gas station would pay. I'm sure it's less for swiped transactions. Either way what that station is doing is highway robbery, blatantly passing the merchant fees (and then some) onto the customer... I doubt Visa/MC would be very happy about it LOL

[Bobafreak]

Yeah paying 4.60 for gas last weekend was not the business. Im looking about buying a street bike now.

[hustlervibes]

I haven't read throught his whole thread, but judging from the earlier posts saying it is or isn't legal.

From what I know it IS legal because they get less profit from customers who use credit cards because they have to go through the credit card companies and get charged a processing fee or whatever. There is shell I've seen that even does that. And they can do whatever they want.

[HyperTek]

I never carry cash on me because with cash, im tempted to buy dumb shit or blow my cash... So i use my debt card.

Maybe if i just go to my bank and do withdrawals, I can avoid extra card charges... but that equals more time waiting in lines at gas stations, and possibility of loose change, which would affect my overal budget since i suck at keeping loose change and drop em in my car or loose em... etc * who the hell keeps track of their pennies and nickels?.. besides old people*

[calico]

i'd like to see an update from PHLIP in a couple weeks since he said he reported the gas station... i hope they burn in hell!

[BustedS13]

I never carry cash on me because with cash, im tempted to buy dumb shit or blow my cash... So i use my debt card.

Maybe if i just go to my bank and do withdrawals, I can avoid extra card charges... but that equals more time waiting in lines at gas stations, and possibility of loose change, which would affect my overal budget since i suck at keeping loose change and drop em in my car or loose em... etc * who the hell keeps track of their pennies and nickels?.. besides old people*

i'm the exact same way. i used to think paying with cash was great because i could save the can in a jar and then cash it in later for a good chunk to throw in my checking account. but if i just buy everything with my debit... the change is auto saved and i just... have money.

the old bag at walgreens gives me the stink eye when i buy a 99 cent can of Arizona with my debit card, of course. but fuck her, plastic is the future.