Aluminum for exhaust?

[sac]

hey.. i have come to thinkin...
ya they make titanium exhausts. EXPENSIVE!
they make aluminum as well..(so i have heard but yet to see)
ANYONE RUNNING A ALUMINUM EXHAUST? I have access to several different thicknesses of aluminum piping. I have a pipe-bender. Tons of sand. Think this could work? I am trying to save weight here, but dont want to compromise on reliability. I am not going to spend $600+ on a exhaust. When i have access to this stuff. I understand i probably should have a SS downpipe, but what about from there back. Should work right?

what thickness is good..?
can i bend aluminum with a regular pipe bender if i pack it with sand? i havent tried before. Would it just crush it?

[kdashy]

Doesn't aluminum have a relatively low melting point? I can imagine it would corrode pretty quickly too.

[s13envy]

i dont see why you couldn't use aluminum for exhaust. but then again i dont know what kind of temps aluminum can withstand. try it out and if it doesn't work, let us know. :)

[89singlecamnoob]

melting point for aluminum is 1300-deg F. (iirc from my firefightin' days)

i wouldn't go making a downpipe out of it, 'cause it might soften up, but i think from the cat/test-pipe back, it should be safe...this is just my thoughts, i don't make exhausts, so i dunno

[importdude]

Exhuast is Fine

Dp/Header= I wouldnt Run it
of Course if its a Drag only Car its fine

[atutt]

From the cat back it's fine. It's done that way a lot.

[Dousan_PG]

i would think aluminum is too soft
would dent/damage easy
like when crash IC pipes are done for even on low impact.

[upSLIDEdown]

i would think aluminum is too soft
would dent/damage easy
like when crash IC pipes are done for even on low impact.

That's what I was gonna say. It'll rip open if you hit anything. Aluminum rips fairly easy, where steel will just dent.

EDIT: If you're as low as me anyway, which you're probably not, so n/m. Go for it.

[STARBUCKS]

a couple people in dallas are running aluminum exhausts on built evo's

[atutt]

From the cat back it's fine. It's done that way a lot.
My statement is still true.....

i would think aluminum is too soft
would dent/damage easy
like when crash IC pipes are done for even on low impact.
..... he brings up a very good point. aluminium is soft in that aspect as it does damage easily.

However, like I said, it's done a lot and holds up well in regards to heat.



If you're after aluminium for it's lightweight properties. You're better off spending extra money in Ti if you're worried about damaging the aluminium.
Ti is lightweight and uber strong. It can take a far greater beating than aluminium.

[S14DB]

Where are you going to get aluminum mufflers?

[gotta240]

and do you know how to weld it?

Its far from impossible, but not the easiest thing to weld.

[Kn1ves]

i bet it would sound really bad

[dori_sil8t]

even going over bumps and shit on the road. id be afraid it would snap boucing around.

[atutt]

^Aluminium is soft. Not brittle.

Yes aliminium can be hard to weld. Since it doesn't glow red when it's reached it's melting point. Unlike most other metals.

The aluminium exhausts I have hread didn't sound bad. They sounded good.

The aluminium is more than strong enough to hold up. It's not going to break unless you're really low and smash it off something. Driving around daily will be fine.
I still suggest going the Ti route if you're really worried.

[gotta240]

The thing you guys aren't really thinking about is

You could build like 3 custom alluminum exhausts for the price of one ti. Its not as soft and flimsy as you guys are thinking. The pipe is still suspended by rubber hangers which give under impact. Unless you're

A. Rally racing

B. Trying to jump curbs

I wouldn't worry about it.

[Ragnarok043]

since you already have access to aluminum just go for it, if it doesnt work out its not much money out of your pocket.

[atutt]

The thing you guys aren't really thinking about is

You could build like 3 custom alluminum exhausts for the price of one ti. Its not as soft and flimsy as you guys are thinking. The pipe is still suspended by rubber hangers which give under impact. Unless you're

A. Rally racing

B. Trying to jump curbs

I wouldn't worry about it.

That's true, the cost is a lot less. Depending on the Grade of aluminium. Therefore, depending on the Grade of aluminium, it's still soft. Lower grade aluminium is softer than a higher grade. The higher grade is also more expensive. The average person would most likely pick up the lesser expensive material. Mainly because the average person may not know the differences between them.

I should have said.
"I would go with a really high quality/grade of aluminium or Ti if you are REALLY that worried"

(Forgive me for not being able to recite the different grades and their properties off the bat. I'm hung over and I fell like crap)
However, a lower grade/quality of aluminium is still fine and dandy for an everyday driver that isn't driving on thier frame rails.

[racepar1]

^Aluminium is soft. Not brittle.

WRONG! Aluminum IS brittle, it does not bend or flex it just breaks. I wouldn't run it and I am SUPER concerned with weight. If it scrapes once, it will be done. If a piece of road debris hits it, it will be badly damaged. The vibration would kill it as well. I wouldn't give it more than a few months before the flanges and welds start cracking, if that long. If aluminum was a good long term exhaust solution then you would see more companies selling it. I have yet to see one company marketing aluminum exhausts.

[kdashy]

WRONG! Aluminum IS brittle, it does not bend or flex it just breaks. I wouldn't run it and I am SUPER concerned with weight. If it scrapes once, it will be done. If a piece of road debris hits it, it will be badly damaged. The vibration would kill it as well. I wouldn't give it more than a few months before the flanges and welds start cracking, if that long. If aluminum was a good long term exhaust solution then you would see more companies selling it. I have yet to see one company marketing aluminum exhausts.

I see brackets on aluminum intakes break all the time.

And that doesn't have to put up with much heat or vibration.

[Prok0]

enjuku ran aluminum exhaust on both their race cars without any issue, and those things go the shit beat out of them.

[gotta240]

...............................................

[gotta240]

WRONG! Aluminum IS brittle, it does not bend or flex it just breaks. I wouldn't run it and I am SUPER concerned with weight. If it scrapes once, it will be done. If a piece of road debris hits it, it will be badly damaged. The vibration would kill it as well. I wouldn't give it more than a few months before the flanges and welds start cracking, if that long. If aluminum was a good long term exhaust solution then you would see more companies selling it. I have yet to see one company marketing aluminum exhausts.

:wtf:
I think you are exaggerating the qualities of alluminum a bit. Ok, a LOT. Road debri wont do shit to alluminum and a single scrape certainly wont destroy anything. Lets be realistic here.

Will it damage more easily than steel? SURE. But then again, so does the fiberglass that people build hoods, fenders, doors, trunks, rear fenders, and even roofs out of. If he is doing it for weight, he most likely won't be offroading his car.

Vibration on the other hand may be an issue. IT wounld't be a bad idea to use a clamp type hanger, made of steel. Plenty of race cars use alluminum for exhausts because it saves LOTS of weight (10 or 20 lbs) and is much cheaper than tie.

[ripnbst]

Or if youre so low it might bash off a speed bump. Even then for how cheap it is if you can build it yourslef I say do it! to make up for how pliable it is just use a heavier gauge of pipe with thicker walls. Were not talkin gutter piping thickness here guys.

[Brian W.]

i didnt read through this whole thread. but ive made aluminum exhausts before. mostly for drag cars though.

downpipe and exhaust are fine made out of aluminum from my experience. aluminum Vbands are easy to come by now and you just vband a stainless muffler in place so you dont need an aluminum muffler.


the only issue is that it dents easily as im sure someone has said already. This is the only reason i didnt put one on my new car.

[jim1234664]

I can imagine it would corrode pretty quickly too.

uhhh, aluminum doesnt corrode.

im sure that it would be fine for an exhaust. the forces on an exhaust are nothing compared to other aluminum apps (such as the body of the lotus elise)

[gotta240]

Wow. The brilliance of this website never ceases to amaze me.


Alluminum DOES corrode. It doesn't RUST, but it does corrode. Not really an issue with exhausts, but lets not speak out of our arses.

[sr20powerd]

I think you would be able to get aluminum mufflers from burns stainless, I've seen a couple 4" aluminum exhaust that were ballin, let me see if i can find links and pics

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v178/sixtylbsofboost/PICT0113.jpg

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1816011

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2161051 (http://http//www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2161051)

[sr20boostn20]

My friends at NRG Tech in NY are expirementing with aluminum exhausts on a few of their cars that are coming out this year.

Its all trial and error

[babowc]

If you guys are so anal about ground clearance..

Why not make it a oval instead of a full circle??

It'd be much more work involved, but you'll probably end up with alot of ground clearance..

[nissanguy13]

with most of our cars being so low I would say the first bump or high area you scrape on will rip it open

[jim1234664]

Wow. The brilliance of this website never ceases to amaze me.


Alluminum DOES corrode. It doesn't RUST, but it does corrode. Not really an issue with exhausts, but lets not speak out of our arses.


Seriously?

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________
Aluminum owes its excellent corrosion resistance and its usage as one of the primary metals of commerce to the barrier oxide film that is bonded strongly to its surface and, that if damaged, re-forms immediately in most environments.
On a surface freshly abraded and then exposed to air, the barrier oxide film is only 1 nm thick but is highly effective in protecting the aluminum from corrosion.

Atmospheric Corrosion:

Most aluminum alloys have excellent resistance to atmospheric corrosion (often called weathering), and in many outdoor applications, such alloys do not require shelter, protective coatings or maintenance.

source: http://www.key-to-metals.com/Article14.htm

[Bubbles]

WRONG! Aluminum IS brittle, it does not bend or flex it just breaks.



Thank god someone knows what they are talking about.

I kept expecting someone to correct the original person that posted it's soft but everyone continued agreeing.

Steel bends

Aluminum breaks

Very rigid.

[racepar1]

:wtf:
I think you are exaggerating the qualities of alluminum a bit. Ok, a LOT. Road debri wont do shit to alluminum and a single scrape certainly wont destroy anything. Lets be realistic here.

Will it damage more easily than steel? SURE. But then again, so does the fiberglass that people build hoods, fenders, doors, trunks, rear fenders, and even roofs out of. If he is doing it for weight, he most likely won't be offroading his car.

Vibration on the other hand may be an issue. IT wounld't be a bad idea to use a clamp type hanger, made of steel. Plenty of race cars use alluminum for exhausts because it saves LOTS of weight (10 or 20 lbs) and is much cheaper than tie.

Aluminum is softer than steel therefore if you scrape it is done as the asphalt will eat it almost right away. If a large piece of road debris (like semi truck tire shrapnel) hits it is will severely damage the piping. I grew up at SCCA events on the west coast and have not seen one single aluminum exhaust on a race car, and I have seen HUNDREDS of racecars. Aluminum is simply not durable enough for a long term exhaust solution. Slip joints with clamps would help, but there has to be a flange somewhere and I guarantee it will crack from the vibration. If you want a light exhaust just get a buddy club spec2. If you need it to be quiet for the street just build a rear section for it with a muffler. Will aluminum be a bit lighter, sure it will, but in the long run you will have problems.

[gotta240]

[quote=jim1234664;1930600]Seriously?
:mephfawk: :fruit:


Yes, seriously.. Re-read my post before making such a bold statement.
I stated that alluminum DOES corrode, although it shouldn't be an issue. In fact, you don't even have to re-read the original post, just re-read what you quoted me on in your own post. ALLUMINUM DOES CORRODE, BUT IT SHOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE WITH EXHAUST. BUt it DOES CORRODE.



Search on google. You'll find this.
When exposed to damp, salty air, most aluminum alloys behave very actively. Sea salt (mostly sodium chloride) destabilizes the normally protective oxide film, leading the localized attack, or "pitting." The reaction is so strong that a thin-gauge aluminum sheet will show perforation after being immersed in warm salty water for only a short period of exposure. However, not all aluminum alloys react so strongly to salt air.

[sac]

My statement is still true.....


..... he brings up a very good point. aluminium is soft in that aspect as it does damage easily.

However, like I said, it's done a lot and holds up well in regards to heat.



If you're after aluminium for it's lightweight properties. You're better off spending extra money in Ti if you're worried about damaging the aluminium.
Ti is lightweight and uber strong. It can take a far greater beating than aluminium.
Um.. i posted that i am not gonna spend that kind of $ on exhaust. If it was a full blown race car with sponsors out the ass, sure fuck it. Its not $ out of my pocket. But thats not the case.
Where are you going to get aluminum mufflers? Not to be rude, but i didnt say mufflers. STRAIT PIPE!

and do you know how to weld it?

Its far from impossible, but not the easiest thing to weld.
yes i do know how to weld aluminum.
WRONG! Aluminum IS brittle, it does not bend or flex it just breaks. I wouldn't run it and I am SUPER concerned with weight. If it scrapes once, it will be done. If a piece of road debris hits it, it will be badly damaged. The vibration would kill it as well. I wouldn't give it more than a few months before the flanges and welds start cracking, if that long. If aluminum was a good long term exhaust solution then you would see more companies selling it. I have yet to see one company marketing aluminum exhausts.
i havent seen companies market exhaust. Thanks for insite man, your opinion is valued. Good point that nobody markets them.


i know for a fact that aluminum corrodes. I also am aware of the fact that its resistant to corrosion and weathering. However, my watch is water-resistant. If i left it in a bucket of water for a week would it be fu*ked? YUP, sure would. Just because it has properties that make it resistant to something doesnt mean its unable to occur.