harness location street legal set-up?

[Jtuned S13]

just installed my harness mounting points are
stock location one from the manual lap belt and the other one from the auto. belt
the rear mounts to the two holes for rear stocks belts

so i've heard for word of mouth that i can get a tickect for my set-up
something bout havingh all the mounts mount up in one location as well as the actuall harness connector has to be a single point type I.E. a lap style connector????

anyone got a ticket for having a harness ????:wavey:
just want clarification

[MrChow]

Most harness aren't street legal. There only a few harness that's are.
Here read up. http://www.soloracer.com/harnschrothfaq.html

[Jtuned S13]

thanks for the info. now all i have to do is find some kind of list that shows all DOT approved harnesses lol my friend just gave me this nrg harness and i was just wondering if it was street legal

[Flybert]

All you have to do is not be gay and wear a regular seatbelt like a real man. Seeing how you didn't mount your harness to a cage makes this thread even gayer.

I could understand if this was a daily driver with a 6-point and you're trying to protect yourself from slamming your head into your cage, but other than that, there's no reason to wear a harness on the street.

[Nikeboy355]

there's no reason to wear a harness on the street.
Absolutely... Driving with a harness on the street isn't a smart idea...

You can't turn around (for backing up) to see and there is no protection if your car rolls over...

Leave the stock seatbelt in the car if you use your car for both street and track...

[fakts13]

what would you do if you had a full bucket seat like a bride zeta, last time I checked, if you used a stock seat belt on one of those, it left like a good 3" of space between me and the belt. seems to be more unsafe than a harness.... but maybe I'm just gay...

jtuned: schroth has the rallye4asm which is a DOT approved harness if you are intent on using a harness, which means that it would be approved for driving on the roads SAFELY (comparable to stock if not better).

[McRussellPants]

I did it.

6pt Willans daily for like 6 months.

doesn't make a difference and Robo belts eat dicks.

All these things people say are hard/bad to use on the street like harnesses/cages/welded diffs must drive like total tools.

I can't think of one situation where i thought "man I wish I had stock belts back.

[Andrew Bohan]

i got pulled over for no seatbelt once.

then he noticed i had a harness and he let me go. it was a 3 point sabelt piece of shit.

so i got away with it, but still not smart to do.



you need a cage to run a harness safely. and you need a helmet to have a cage safely.


what would you do if you had a full bucket seat like a bride zeta, last time I checked, if you used a stock seat belt on one of those, it left like a good 3" of space between me and the belt. seems to be more unsafe than a harness.... but maybe I'm just gay...
if you crash, that 3" will go away REALLY fast

[Koopa Troopa]

http://www.takataracingproducts.com/guide.html

[racepar1]

Absolutely... Driving with a harness on the street isn't a smart idea...

You can't turn around (for backing up) to see and there is no protection if your car rolls over...

Leave the stock seatbelt in the car if you use your car for both street and track...


How is there no protection in a roll-over? A 4 or 5 point harness will hold you in your seat better than a stock seat belt! You should be safer in any accident. I agree that using a harness on a daily is fucking stupid though! It is such a pain in the ass, and very un-comfortable! I run a 5-point harness for the track and s-14 manual belts for the occasions that I drive it on the street. You can mount both. If requested I will take pics.

[fakts13]

i got pulled over for no seatbelt once.

then he noticed i had a harness and he let me go. it was a 3 point sabelt piece of shit.

so i got away with it, but still not smart to do.



you need a cage to run a harness safely. and you need a helmet to have a cage safely.



if you crash, that 3" will go away REALLY fast

yah, that 3" will cause more damage than good. last time I checked seat belts stop moving when you try yank on them. you know how much more momentum you have moving that 3" than you would with a harness that's snug on you? and why do you think that you need a cage to have a safe setup with a harness?

[Andrew Bohan]

a harness doesn't let you move around much. if you flip your car over, guess what? it holds you up so your neck gets broken by the roof caving in (if you roll just right)

a seat belt will let you flop around a little. you can lean way to the right and not get your neck broken.

[fakts13]

In a car like a roadster/convertible or a car with a weak roof, I can see that being a big concern. In a car with a fairly strong roof structure, I'd be more concerned about keeping my head and body from flopping around a "little".

[racepar1]

a harness doesn't let you move around much. if you flip your car over, guess what? it holds you up so your neck gets broken by the roof caving in (if you roll just right)

a seat belt will let you flop around a little. you can lean way to the right and not get your neck broken.


That is the first actual convincing and possibly technically correct arguement that I have ever heard for harnesses to be considered unsafe on the street (other than incorrect mounting). That scenario in extremely unlikely however. In 99.9% of all accidents it would definitely be safer to be firmly strapped in. Some people will argue that since your body can't move your neck takes a lot of torque. But in a racecar you have a helmet strapped to your head, which in the event of an accident would put even more torque on your neck. That is why most professional racing organizations now require the hans device. But almost no amateur racing organizations do. Also the hans device is a new development in safety. So in all those really nasty old-skool crashes the driver has no neck protection, with a heavy helmet, with harnesses, and a lot of them walked away; the vast majority were not seriously injured. So the whole torque on the neck thing is just a bunch of bullshit in my opinion!

[usajdm]

Harness Bar..................... no cage needed.
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2875/hb1gx3.png

..........and yes, they have ones that bolt into stock seat-belt locations that require not modifications or welding ..............
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6607/hb2zo7.png

............ and how many of you have actaully rolled a car over, or have even seen it.
The only times you hear of it is on "cops" and it involves a night of drinking, a dime bag and an unregistered rusty-ass gun stashed in between the seats of a stolen pick-up truck.

Anyways, I recognize that you were just asking a simple question on the legality of a harness and not peoples opinions on "gayness"....... but my own opinion is that for a daily driver they do become a nuisance.

As for the laws behind them, Id check with the department of transportation and go for facts, not opinions.

[Sean14]

Ok guys,

I have an s13 track car that I am forced to drive as a daily right now. It has a bucket seat and a 4 pt but no cage. So i kept the stock shoulder belt AND the harness. I use the harness lap and stock shoulder for street, and full harness for track. The way I understand it, this seems to be the best option for you, jtuned. But no one has answered his question about mounting points, which I seem to see A LOT of variation in how people do it.

Not my car, but is this ok for the track (autox, drift, little to no chance of flipping)?

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/seanlarin/harnessinstall.jpg

[TheBigDirty]

In my old car, I ran regular seatbelts. I was in an accident and rolled over three times. On one of the flips my head peeks out my popup sunroof and scrapes the concrete, leaving me with a chunk of flesh missing. Had I had my harness back then, I would've been held in snugly, and I wouldn't have a bald spot on my head. Shit happens, that's why I run a harness on my daily.

[McRussellPants]

nah, tech inspectors are stupid motherfuckers so they'll tell you thats gonna compress your spine and fail you tech for it.

it totally doesn't matter though unless your 7 feet tall since the belts will pivot off the holes in the seat and not compress any more than a crappily located harness bar.

You guys have to understand, that in a wreck if you ball up an S chassis bad enough to cave the roof in a harness isn't doing much harm or good.

keep it tight and you might Dale Earnhart your neck.
keep it loose and you might bust your teeth on the steering wheel.
keep one side loose and one side tight and you might compress your spine weird.

but in all likely hood it will work better than stock robobelts.

[McRussellPants]

oh btw, Harness bars suck. Mazworks one is like 400$ and you can get a Kirk or Autopower 4 point for that much and probably have the theoretically "safest" street setup you can get.

[fakts13]

but then some people (not me) would argue that having a cage on a daily isn't the safest option either. People are just going to think what they want to think and do what they want to do.

[usajdm]

Damn "TheBigDirty", that sucks man.
Let me guess............. 580?
Every 3miles theres a wreck.

[Sean14]

So referring back to my picture, is there a better location I can attach them without a harness bar? I am getting a crappy autopower by the time the real drift season starts, but for the little winter autox's, I am just bolting it to the car.

[ALEXTHESUS*PECT]

i got pulled over for no seatbelt once.

then he noticed i had a harness and he let me go. it was a 3 point sabelt piece of shit.

so i got away with it, but still not smart to do.





i got pulled over too, for not having "my shoulder belt".

the cop hasseled me for 20 minutes then a gave me a non related ticket. don't do it!:spank:

[ALEXTHESUS*PECT]

Ok guys,

I have an s13 track car that I am forced to drive as a daily right now. It has a bucket seat and a 4 pt but no cage. So i kept the stock shoulder belt AND the harness. I use the harness lap and stock shoulder for street, and full harness for track. The way I understand it, this seems to be the best option for you, jtuned. But no one has answered his question about mounting points, which I seem to see A LOT of variation in how people do it.

Not my car, but is this ok for the track (autox, drift, little to no chance of flipping)?

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/seanlarin/harnessinstall.jpg


that's what i ran for 2 years no problem. drifting, and nasa:fruit:

[joshchewuhh]

I use to DD with a harness then one day I got pulled over because he thought my harness wasn't buckled. The cop asked me why i had it and he let me go I had the same set up as jtuned i guess it matters with the cop. Like every other god damn ticket:down:

[AznDrftr.]

Yea, im lookin to get a harness bar for the car if not when i get a roll cage, but i know its not safe if you get in a wreck cuz the harness if attached at the bottom as one of the above, could literally crush your back by folding you.

Thats a vid i saw in this drivin school (yet i did it lol )

we'lll see.

[Jtuned S13]

lol...i can see we have different views on this topic..but in any sense having something strap you in the seat is safer than not having one on right???dispite the crushing of you back:(

[racepar1]

^^^ 99.9% of the time you will be safer! There are many more situations where you would be better off with a harness than there are where you would not.

[Andrew Bohan]

and sometimes people live through a crash with no seatbelt at all, and some expert at the scene says "oh wow if he was wearing a seatbelt, he wouldn't have made it!"


point is, hope for the best, plan for the worst, and what happens will be somewhere in between.

[Jtuned S13]

true true...lol im not planing to get into accident i just have to watch out for the people who dont care bout life or condition of there vehicle!!! anyways im looking into a autopower rollcage any of you use one of them???

[S13Boosts]

that's what i ran for 2 years no problem. drifting, and nasa:fruit:


samehere, its just hard when your big trying get it off ya!:keke:

[StaticX27]

The other big argument I've heard regarding with harnesses vs belts is that in some situations you need to get out of the car in a hurry, and harnesses do take a little bit longer to get in and out of.

*shrug* I'm running harnesses and I just find them to be a pain at times. Nothing like dropping something out of your lap and having to unhook somewhere just to reach it, vs stock seat belts, you can extend forward and the belt goes with you. Even safe normal driving habits like turning on the a/c or changing the radio station become a challenge, since harnesses literally glue you to your seat.

[S13Boosts]

The other big argument I've heard regarding with harnesses vs belts is that in some situations you need to get out of the car in a hurry, and harnesses do take a little bit longer to get in and out of.

*shrug* I'm running harnesses and I just find them to be a pain at times. Nothing like dropping something out of your lap and having to unhook somewhere just to reach it, vs stock seat belts, you can extend forward and the belt goes with you. Even safe normal driving habits like turning on the a/c or changing the radio station become a challenge, since harnesses literally glue you to your seat.


word, try getting in the car and all settled and have to unlock the pass door cause of manuel door locks.... its a bitch to go thru all that just to press something:(

[Jtuned S13]

i agree...had to go through that to open the lock for my girl..lol then i had to get all settled :(

[Indolent]

Ok guys,

I have an s13 track car that I am forced to drive as a daily right now. It has a bucket seat and a 4 pt but no cage. So i kept the stock shoulder belt AND the harness. I use the harness lap and stock shoulder for street, and full harness for track. The way I understand it, this seems to be the best option for you, jtuned. But no one has answered his question about mounting points, which I seem to see A LOT of variation in how people do it.

Not my car, but is this ok for the track (autox, drift, little to no chance of flipping)?

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/seanlarin/harnessinstall.jpg
you realize if you got rear ended with that set up and the seat collapsed in itself your back would be done right? get a harness bar.

[fakts13]

I fail to see what difference a harness bar would make in that situation

[Andrew Bohan]

if the seat breaks, the broken part and the belt can drop. a harness bar would hold it up, and hold up the broken part of the seat with the harness

[McRussellPants]

The other big argument I've heard regarding with harnesses vs belts is that in some situations you need to get out of the car in a hurry, and harnesses do take a little bit longer to get in and out of.

If there is any harness on the market thats harder to get out of than a stock seatbelt then that manufacturer needs to be beaten down with their own camlocks.

seriously, it takes longer to get out if you do it pretty so its easier to get back in. out in a hurry is a flick of a lever and it falls apart, done.

what situation could a modern FIA seat break? I think all thats bullshit from the 80s when people were racing on benches and other crap that sucked and would break if you looked at it funny.

I wager harness bars are more dangerous because if the car takes a hit to the side the bar could bend backwards and compress/twist your spine weird.

prove me wrong.

[StaticX27]

Once you undo the buckle, you still need to pull your arms out from under the straps that should be pretty tight, depending on the harness type. Personally I use a buckle style harness, so the shoulder straps are attatched to the lap belt, then the lap belt buckles across your lap. Camlocks are a whole different ballgame, you're right in that regard, but I have heard of accidents before where the guy was nearly killed because he couldn't get out of his harnesses. If I can find that story again, I'll post it up.

[fakts13]

Andrew: ah, I see how that would work. must be a cheap seat to break in a rear end collision though. I would imagine any fia certified seat would be enough to handle the majority of collisions.

[McRussellPants]

Once you undo the buckle, you still need to pull your arms out from under the straps that should be pretty tight, depending on the harness type. Personally I use a buckle style harness, so the shoulder straps are attatched to the lap belt, then the lap belt buckles across your lap. Camlocks are a whole different ballgame, you're right in that regard, but I have heard of accidents before where the guy was nearly killed because he couldn't get out of his harnesses. If I can find that story again, I'll post it up.


Yeah, playskool buckle types don't even count as Harnesses. Those things are completely retarded and a waste of money.

You can get a simpson latch and link 3in legal for everythign for what? 150$? Why dick around with retarded Greddy 2in seatbelt thats completely hazardous.

[Sean14]

Yeah, when I said I was running a bucket seat and a harness attached like the picture, I was assuming we were talking about quality products. If a rear end collision makes my FIA approved fixed bucket Sparco fold, or my 3 inch camlock harness get stuck... I think the lack of harness bar is the least of my issues.

BUT ANYWAYS, there were many good points made so far in this thread, lets try and get some facts or data to maybe back up ideas people are putting forth, that would make this more worth while.

[StaticX27]

My buckle style harness is an FIA approved sparco harness. I wanted the camlock, but my friend screwed up the order and got me a buckle style. I said whatever, as long as it's FIA approved, I don't really care.

Kinda regret that decision, but meh, it's what works.

And... You have to consider how hard you have to be hit for the car to actually crush half your car to get to your seat, or even your harness mounting points. If you get hit that hard, you have bigger problems than just your seat breaking :P

[S13Boosts]

My buckle style harness is an FIA approved sparco harness. I wanted the camlock, but my friend screwed up the order and got me a buckle style. I said whatever, as long as it's FIA approved, I don't really care.

Kinda regret that decision, but meh, it's what works.

And... You have to consider how hard you have to be hit for the car to actually crush half your car to get to your seat, or even your harness mounting points. If you get hit that hard, you have bigger problems than just your seat breaking :P


true true ive been thinking about that alot lol

[McRussellPants]

If you're hit hard enough to crack an FIA seat in half you're probably a juggalo reguardless and your harness mounts which at that point are just keeping your dead body from breaking your shift console so someone can scam it out of a junkyard and make a thread about "a good find" on Zilvia.

its all a game of what if.

I could think of situations where anything could be destroyed in a car.

[racepar1]

My set-up is pretty much the best you can do without a harness bar or a cage. Honestly though I don't trust most harness bars cuz they look flimsy as hell. I have teamtech 5-point belts (that I got for free! :bigok: ) and the eye-bolts and large seatbelt washers came from a set of simpson belts. My belts are weird though cuz the cam-lock is attached to the 5th point, not the lap-belt like every other harness that I have seen.

I mounted the eye-bolts as high as possible, which also happens to be a VERY strong point on the chasis cuz there are several panels that come together right there.
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/racepar1/bigwillow023.jpg
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/racepar1/bigwillow025.jpg

Right on either side of the frame-rail! These things will NEVER pull through!
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/racepar1/bigwillow010.jpg

For the lap-belt I removed the mounting bracket from the stock beltspool to make my mounting point as strong as possible. For the inner mounting point I just used the one that was already on my seat bracket, which is the same as stock.
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj283/racepar1/bigwillow022.jpg

[KA-T_240]

^The 4-points are ok.

The full cages don't fit the best. If you are wanting a full cage, you are best off getting one custom made. Then it well be made to fit YOU, and made to be legal for what ever racing you plan on doing.

I have a harness with a harness bar in my car. I was going to to a the 4-point autopower. But, I have been planning on putting a 6/8 point cage in my car for a while and figured why waste the $$$$. I drove it daily for 3-4 months this summer. I have also passed 2 differant regions inspection for SCCA, NHRA, and road race tech. I was pulled over cop didnt even say anything about it. He was more consirned about pulling my over for my headlights not being on, when they were.

[Lusion]

Not a Nissan, but my location..

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/lusion32/100_2792.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/lusion32/100_2794.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/lusion32/100_2802.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/lusion32/100_2803.jpg

[racepar1]

^The 4-points are ok.

The full cages don't fit the best. If you are wanting a full cage, you are best off getting one custom made. Then it well be made to fit YOU, and made to be legal for what ever racing you plan on doing.

I have a harness with a harness bar in my car. I was going to to a the 4-point autopower. But, I have been planning on putting a 6/8 point cage in my car for a while and figured why waste the $$$$. I drove it daily for 3-4 months this summer. I have also passed 2 differant regions inspection for SCCA, NHRA, and road race tech. I was pulled over cop didnt even say anything about it. He was more consirned about pulling my over for my headlights not being on, when they were.

As far as I am concerned pretty much any pre-fabbed bolt/weld-in cage is nothing but a glorified chasis brace (especially the cusco ones). All of the ones that I have seen attach to the rear fenderwells which is seriously lame and the s-bends that they have to clear the dash is even gayer. I plan on building a cage for my car later this year, I have actually been working on the design for about a year and a half now.