View Full Version : For Love of the Car or Love of the Show?
flipboi13
10-01-2002, 08:02 PM
NOTE: I mean no offense to anyone, this is mostly my opinion and nobody's opinion is wrong, but I'd like to hear other peoples' input on this subject.
Since we're all here talking about our cars how to fix them up, there is no doubt we are car enthusiasts. But you've seen the movies and you've heard it around (especially in the Honda camp), some people just want to show off their car and couldn't care less about what cars are all about.
For instance, some kid sees The Fast & the Furious (Sorry for mentioning a devil movie), and thinks, "hmm... I should get an eclipse, and beef it up with NOS and be a badass". Sure, nothing wrong with that, great hobby. But for this kid, money isn't an issue (he has rich parents or makes the dough), and hears that he can make his car faster by doing this and that, then swapping this for that. So what does he do? He sends it off to a local shop and tell them to do it. Great! Nice car, but the kid still doesn't know what they did and how clever NO2 injection is, and we are left with a whole flood of people who don't know how to properly work on their car (IMO almost the entire population of show cars). I'm not saying that I am better than these people because I spent a year in auto classes and doing 80% of the work required on my car, b/c not many people can be so lucky. And very rarely will you find someone new to auto mechanics do 100% the work themselves, b/c we all love our cars, and wouldn't want to risk destryoing something that could be quite costly.
But, sometimes, I find it irratating that I see cars everywhere that can boast huge power numbers, some new swap, or really nice body work and find out that the owner didn't do a thing to the car besides have a shop do all the work for them. Mainly I feel this way b/c when you go talk to them and question them about the problems of fitting an RB into a S13 and converting it into AWD, they don't have a clue what you are talking about, and you both stand there staring into space, and what could have been a great conversation on cars has turned 1 person into an idiot and the other really bored. What do you guys think about the whole thing? (not the 2 dudes, and especially not about converting a s-13 into an awd rb monster).
fodive
10-01-2002, 08:09 PM
I understand where you are coming from, but i do think that not all people who have shops do their work for them are not "enthusiasts". take for instance, if i was getting an SR for my car(assuming i could afford one <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> ) where i live right now, i dont have the tools, time or skills to do an engine swap, would that make me less of an enthusiast because i dont have the resources to do a swap or something on that scale? sometimes i think people get to carried away with what an enthusiast really is, to me, enthusiasts are people who enjoy cars for what they are and what they do, no just people who only would drive a stick and has to do everything themselves. however, i dont consider people who buy cars just because they are fast/"in". in short, as long as people appreciate and enjoy what they have, be it a 91 hatchback or a 97 S14a with a SR20 18's and full suspension, those people are enthusiasts to me...and sorry if i cant spell enthusiast, ive never been a good speller <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>
Jeff240sx
10-01-2002, 08:18 PM
Yeah. What the hell are you talking about?
I have a z32 brake upgrade. Did it myself. I also have a Turbonetics T3/4e, custom pipeing, and many electronics. Installed myself.
Did I get a big head about this? Nope. Did I rub crap in people's faces? No.
Am I more manly than the next person who doesn't know what a socket is? No.
Is my car better because I did everything myself? No. Faster? No.
So does anyone give a rat's ass what you think about shop class? You guessed it. No.
Hey...
Did you ever build a 515hp 11.2second Corvette in your spare time? Probably not. Have I rubbed this in your face? Now I have.
Seriously... does any of this make any difference? Are you ever going to come talk to me about my KA-T or Corvette? Do all these answers have to be no?
-Jeff
Loren
10-01-2002, 08:35 PM
People are different. To some people its more of a hobby than it is to others. Some people only drive cars, cars are a great invention, not a hobby, or a passion but a tool to most people. Some people like fast cars, and can pay to have it done, more power to them. Then theres people who'd rather work on their cars themselves/can't afford to pay someone. Let me put this into perspective for you: Computers, they are great tools just like cars. Some people don't know shit about them, but use them to check their e-mail and write papers, a great tool. Some people don't work on them, but they love to play around with them, and know a lot more than the average user. Then theres the person who builds his computer from scratch and writes programs for it. Theres a varying degree of interest for everything, take a deep breath and let it go...
KiDyNomiTe
10-01-2002, 08:37 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (flipboi13 @ Oct. 01 2002,9:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For instance, some kid sees The Fast & the Furious (Sorry for mentioning a devil movie)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The movie wasnt THAT bad, you all have to admit some of you liked it as you were watching, but then after you realized what you were watching is when you began to hate it. All I saw was yellow Skyline <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'> .
Loren
10-01-2002, 08:50 PM
When i saw that movies in the theatre, i was getting pissed about it. I told the girl i was with how the double clutching thing was a bunch of bullshit, and explained it to her, and she was like a gay man in a strip club, she just didn't care. It made me realize that the movies wasn't for car buffs, but the general public. A hyped up story is always better than documentary (to the general public).
fodive
10-01-2002, 08:55 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Loren @ Oct. 01 2002,9:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When i saw that movies in the theatre, i was getting pissed about it. I told the girl i was with how the double clutching thing was a bunch of bullshit, and explained it to her, and she was like a gay man in a strip club, she just didn't care. It made me realize that the movies wasn't for car buffs, but the general public. A hyped up story is always better than documentary (to the general public).</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
very true, i remember seeing the prevues and getting excited, but as soon as paul walkers character came in demanding nawwwws, and lots of it, i gave up hope on that, although, i still did enjoy it, and loved vin diesels rx7 and charger...but now that ive heard the second one is about drifting and shit, i dunno <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/whatsthat.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':whatthe:'>
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzz:'>
what kind of "input" do you want from us? you must be really good at working on your car because you're taking auto classes and doing 80% of the work.
I do my own work because it kills time and I get a kick out of it, not so I can say to some kid that they suck because they brought their car to a shop.
And what of those of us who know how to drive well (or have taken driving courses and can drive well) but don't know a spark plug from an air filter? Are you going to say that since they don't know the hardware on their 240 that it's a waste of "good car"?
Now, I see what you're trying to get at, and when you (I) meet a complete klutz of a rice "boi", I feel the same way about them.
Unfortunately though, there's nothing you can do about it but blame our own (your own-- American) culture. It's what they teach you at school, what you learn in society and all that matters to the majority ('appearances' ). Live with it.
Loren
10-01-2002, 09:44 PM
I agree with adey.. most people are mainstream whores, and they don't like what they are not.. Im not some liberal freak or anything, but being the cultured person that i am, i find ridicule from literally trailor trash. I was condemned today at school by a few kids about my pants. They are light blue with red pin stripes, are a slim boot cut.. They are Diesel's (for those not in the know Diesel is an Italian clothing designer.. entry level high fashion) The pants were originally marked for 130$, but in combination with a sale and being friendly with one of the clerks I got them for 30$.. anyways the point is, Im getting condemned for wearing them because the people i associate don't understand them. If I was in France running with the bon chic crowd, i'd fit right in, but Im here in a hillbilly town in america, and even though what i wear in one day probably costs more than half their wardrobe, they don't know what it is, and people are afraid of what they don't know, so they condemn it. This is way off topic and not about cars, but the point is, if its not mainstream your gonna get disapproval, thats just life, learn to live with it. Do what you want, try not to let society sway you too much, if it just happens to be the mainstream thing, more power to you, but don't totally conform to everything just to please other people. Once again sorry for the off topic post, but i think it has relevance due to its relationship with the mainstream, and how you just have to grin and take it if society at large doesn't accept it.
240SxTYLE
10-01-2002, 09:47 PM
i see were you are coming from flipboi... i've HAD a friend that owns a 98 tt supra with all the works (little rich boy)... paint, volk gtn's, trd bodykit... alll that bs, but one day this man asked me what should he do next to his car... i said do a turbo upgrade or change some internals. this guys says back to me "what do you mean by that" im like "pistons valves (i didnt know that much back than) " and hes says "i thought pistons come in non turbo cars"... WTF... i lost all respect for what i thought of his car... to me it makes me upset and bewildered that ppl can have such nice cars and not know shit. to him its probably just an extension of his
[email protected]$k or he does it just for the status...
IMO ppl who know there $4!t are the ones with better cars... to me the more i know the happier i am with it
loren is right too... its just ppl with diff levels of enthusiasm
and as far as faf goes when i watched i liked, but as i learned (thanks to zilva) that movie has some many falacies... if faf2 is about drifting i wouldnt put it past kids to try it out on the road AGAIN... my $.02
flipboi13
10-01-2002, 09:48 PM
Sorry guys, I need to make it more clear what I'm trying to say, sometimes I get beyond myself. And I have no beef against anyone for not doing their own work at all! Its hard stuff, and very time consuming. Also, i only mentioned the auto classes as an example, I know its another one of those things that isn't really a priority and I wouldn't have taken them anyway except I am pretty poor myself, but i thought it might save money in the long run, just my thing, doesn't have to be anyone elses.
But what I am trying to ask you guys is what you think about the recent trend that there are all these nice cars, but many of their owners don't really care about cars, but more of the show of it. Hence the topic title.
And you guys are completely MIS-understanding me!! I'm not rubbing anything in your faces... i didn't expect this sort of bashing... i was just asking for a simple discussion.... oh well........
fodive
10-01-2002, 09:50 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (adey @ Oct. 01 2002,10:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unfortunately though, there's nothing you can do about it but blame our own (your own-- American) culture. It's what they teach you at school, what you learn in society and all that matters to the majority ('appearances' ). Live with it.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
hows is this just american culture, every culture is like that some way, like loren says in thepost below, in france, its still about apperance, just clothing, instead of cars, i think its human nature for people to want to look good, and have their possesions look good...JMHO, its not just america, its everywhere
flipboi13
10-01-2002, 09:58 PM
I think I need to word myself better, b/c maybe you guys are just misinterpreting my question. Its like you guys are answering a different question written some guy who called you an asshole.
And to several of your responses... IMO I think that for instance, you turbo your car, and you can't do it yourself so a shop does it. Most of us don't have the tools to do that sort of thing, but you should at least know what steps are involved in doing it and how its going to affect your car. Sometimes I talk to guys at my classes about their turbo tegs, and they really can't give me a straight answer on how a turbo works. What I think is that if you do something to your car, yourself or a shop, you should know what it does and how it works, otherwise what is the point? Like I said, I don't care if you do it yourself or not, but you'd think if you aren't making your car for show, you would be somewhat interested in what is going on with it. Peace.
BEISSEN
10-01-2002, 10:11 PM
An enthusiest has a different meaning in everyones heart and eyes.i have to give props to loren in this post cus he was the best put reply imo.I have to say just cus someone has money and pays for something to be done does not make them less of a car enthusiest.Can you make custome i/c pipeing at your house guess not so you have to go to a shop and have it done.i work onmy car 80% of the time but some thing i just can't get into detail about cus i dont know all that much.So i dont see where you are really coming from on this.
flipboi13
10-01-2002, 10:23 PM
:!:
flipboi13
10-01-2002, 10:23 PM
:!:
flipboi13
10-01-2002, 10:25 PM
:!:
flipboi13
10-01-2002, 10:28 PM
:!:
CoasTek240
10-01-2002, 10:39 PM
wow dude.. chill out .. why are u attacking people/
hahahaha <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
Loren
10-01-2002, 10:41 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (fodive @ Oct. 01 2002,10:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (adey @ Oct. 01 2002,10:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Unfortunately though, there's nothing you can do about it but blame our own (your own-- American) culture. It's what they teach you at school, what you learn in society and all that matters to the majority ('appearances' ). Live with it.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
hows is this just american culture, every culture is like that some way, like loren says in thepost below, in france, its still about apperance, just clothing, instead of cars, i think its human nature for people to want to look good, and have their possesions look good...JMHO, its not just america, its everywhere</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
the france thing... I just fit in better there.. i like the french culture, and believe me your right fodive, they aren't accepting of people over there. they don't like americans, even tho im a frenchman, speak french, dress french, and i am generally up to date with french events and culture, some people still act like im an idiot, just because im american. Theres no one place where everyone is right. And im not moving to france to fit in, its just that i like it over there better.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Loren @ Sep. 30 2002,11:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">People are different. To some people its more of a hobby than it is to others. Some people only drive cars, cars are a great invention, not a hobby, or a passion but a tool to most people. Some people like fast cars, and can pay to have it done, more power to them. Then theres people who'd rather work on their cars themselves/can't afford to pay someone. Let me put this into perspective for you: Computers, they are great tools just like cars. Some people don't know shit about them, but use them to check their e-mail and write papers, a great tool. Some people don't work on them, but they love to play around with them, and know a lot more than the average user. Then theres the person who builds his computer from scratch and writes programs for it. Theres a varying degree of interest for everything, take a deep breath and let it go...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Thats definately true. I built the computer that I'm typing this message with from scratch. I do all my own work on my car. I can't imagine having a hobby which requires me to pay someone to do the work, it just doesn't make sence...unless your just in it to look cool or whatever and don't mind taking your car somewhere else to have your intake installed and your oil changed <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>
flipboi13
10-01-2002, 11:57 PM
Sorry guys for freaking out again...now that i've had time to clear up my ideas, this is what I am trying to say. Not to separate it into sides but... I think there seem to be people who just mod their car for looks and really don't care what going on at the shop or wherever their car is being worked on. It seems pointless to me how some people can swap in some aftermarket cams or put on a really showy bodykit (or any bodykit for that matter) and not know what it is going on there for. Go ahead and ask some people what is the bodykit REALLY for, I can bet you that alot of them will say its just for looks. Sure thats a nice thing to have on a car, but what happened to the person and the car, is it all just to impress other people?? Or do some of you have a love for your car for what it is?? For some people its the speed, others the excitement of controlling the car and its response to your every move, etc...
nismo270r
10-02-2002, 01:44 AM
You see this in just about all walks of life. I know people that will pay someone 50 bucks to install RAM on their laptop...literally takes what, about 30 seconds or so? Maybe a minute if you have to find a screwdriver...It all just depends on what that person knows and what they are capable of doing themselves.
I like to do the work on my car because:
1) I enjoy working on my car
2) I feel it's something you can take pride in, like most hobbies
3) I really don't trust too many other people with my car...that even goes for washing it. After some experiences with shops and so forth, I just believe in the old cliche...If you want something done right, do it yourself.
drift freaq
10-02-2002, 02:09 AM
ok guys,
let me say this. I like looking good <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'> why? because I feel good about myself and if I feel good I want to look good. i.e. the statement about diesel jeans. Actually they are quite common here in Cali, Loren. Don't need to go to France to fit in don't want to go to France to fit in. I like California, now Italy thats another story I would love to go there. Probably will in the next year.
Ok , now on to the cars. Funny thing happened at the National convention . I saw a lot of awefully cherry cars that basically looked like the people were not driving them but parking them in their garage and bringing them out to show.
I think that is what flipboi is talking about . All the show freaks.
Now yes I like my car to look good but I do not want to substitute form over function. i.e. my car may not look perfect but I am going to do the damnest to make it kick some ass.
It will look good enough.
Ever looked at a race car close up? Nine times out of ten it looks fantastic till you get within 5-2 feet of it. Then you start seeing the zip ties and cracked body work etc due to serious hard driving. But underneath the cool looking(from afar) beat up shell you will find incrediable parts that make the car perform extraordinarily.
Now on to the work you choose to put in yourself or pay someone to do .
there comes a point in life where sometimes people get to busy to do the work themselves. or they actually save money paying someone to do it because they make more per hour than it cost per hour to have something installed.
Now for instance I installed my 5 lug swap with my socal240sx.org buddies. It took around 6-8 hours and was a lot of tiring working and we where using power tools.
Now I have a shop I know in Burbank that will install this setup for me for $150 hmmmmm I normally can make anywhere from $250-$500 in that time doing what I am trained for. I am freelance though. So if I have a job then I will pay those guys to do the work and make more working myself while they are doing the work. if a job is not going at the time I may opt to do the work myself.
Does either way make me less of a knowledgeable enthusiast . not really . I could tear my car apart and put it back together.
Do I want to? Not really. I would rather drive it <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>
with the knowledge that if something is wrong or goes wrong I have a good idea whats up and can take care of it one way or another.
ok rant over
steps down from the podium and retreats into the night
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (fodive @ Oct. 01 2002,8:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">hows is this just american culture, every culture is like that some way, like loren says in thepost below, in france, its still about apperance, just clothing, instead of cars, i think its human nature for people to want to look good, and have their possesions look good...JMHO, its not just america, its everywhere</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Understood; I don't mean to realllly attack Americans, but I do it a lot without really thinking. ... so firstly, no offence to the majority of you (us). <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
On the other hand, I stand by my comment in that America, as we all know, is the heart and soul of consumerism; I don't think there's more of a one-track consumer culture anywhere other than the US, it's all around us! You need to have the nicest clothes, the fastest car, look slim, fit, be large breasted (for the women out there) and so on and so forth... heck, what have we come to when people pay for breast enhancement, and you can't go about your own thing if it isn't acceptable to society?
America is great, I would never give up the democratic system or free market economy, but they come with a price tag. (no pun intended) As "free" as we are to do and say what we like, we're still oppressed - it's not the legal system or government that 'limits' our expression, it's society itself; it's our mind forged manacles that make us lemmings of society.
(For those who don't know, I borrowred from Blake)
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