xpertsnowcarver
10-13-2007, 11:34 AM
searched but i don't see anything. keywords: radiator, by-pass, throttle body, tb. or maybe you guys do know wat it is but call it differently.
just wanted to know why i don't hear or see people doing this mod to their 240. ive done it to my old 90 accord and 03 matrix and no problems. the idea originated from the z28 camero forums.
theory?: cold air is more dense than hot. so when colder air is ignited in the cylinder, the expansion of the volume of air is much more profound than already heated air which wont expand as much or as quickly. thus, more power. this is just the general theory. 2 degrees of temp could make a significant difference, but it just depends on the design and life of the engine.
Yeah what they said, your colder air theory is a little off though.
Colder air makes more power because it has more oxygen in it, so more fuel molecules can find oxygen molecules to burn with. Stock engines always run out of oxygen before they run out of fuel to burn.
whats happening?: radiator fluid runs through the throttle body warming the air up just before entering the intake manifold. this design is in place so when u start your engine when its cold, it warms up quickly. unless u live where temperatures drop below freezing, the radiator fluid warming you TB is entirely unnecessary. Even after the engine is warmed up, the radiator fluid doesn't stop flowing through the TB.
The reason for coolant to surround the throttle is becasue if you live in or travel to places were the tempature is freezing your throttle body could become stuck open or closed but here in california you aint gotta worry about that, well thats were im from.
Mod: so, what you do is by pass the TB. instead of having the radiator fluid line come out of the engine, through the TB, then back into the engine (see FSM for a diagram). Re-route the line so that it comes out and turns straight back in. buy a pair of plugs to cover the nipples on the TB, and thats it. very easy mod.
Gain: now you are able to keep the air as cold as you possibly can all the way to the piston. as much gain as u notice when installing an intake, thats what u should notice with this simple $2 mod. BUT, as everyone knows, even then, the ECU limits any kind of performance modification to the car. so for those that have a piggy or stand alone EMS, you should notice some gain. for those like myself that don't have those, u may or may not notice a difference.
supporting the theory?: picture ITBs (individual throttle bodies). no radiator fluid pass through. the intake for each piston is not more than 6 inches.... so cold air runs straight into the piston. for CAI systems for our 240s, the pipe runs right over the radiator which no doubt DOESN'T makes the point of a COLD AIR intake very effective. it also runs throught the intake manifold which gets very hot because of the engine. so in that, it generally supports the theory.
Possible problems?: i did this mod on a friends 97 prelude sh, and it caused his idle to rise and fall, rise and fall, contiuously. when that happens, it means the vtec is disabled too. so this mod won't work for most honda's.
other probs... not necessarily a prob, but the engine warming up may take a a little more time, but if u live in a city with a climate like mine (LA, CA), then your okay.
rps13drift, only if your TB has a fast idle control bi-metalic thing-a-ma-jig like the B14 200SX GA16DE engine does. But your car will just idle a lil higher for longer until the engien heat itself warms up enought to heat the fast idle control thing that on the TB of the mentioned type car.
i have not done this mod yet to my 240 for a couple reasons... i recently recieved a fix it ticket. so, just in case its illegal, which i highly highly doubt, i won't have to put it back together, and i haven't seen anyone mention it on here. so... just wanted to know if there was a reason, or if just no ones tried it. if no ones tried it, id be happy to experiment for u guys. i tried a couple months back to do this mod but there i practically no breathing room to get pliers in there... now that i have my engine out of the car, i wanted to ask real quick on here before i went for it.
i hope i covered the whole thing... i feel like i left a few things out... but any questions, please ask..
thanks
for those that never heard of this idea. hope it was insightful for you :)
just wanted to know why i don't hear or see people doing this mod to their 240. ive done it to my old 90 accord and 03 matrix and no problems. the idea originated from the z28 camero forums.
theory?: cold air is more dense than hot. so when colder air is ignited in the cylinder, the expansion of the volume of air is much more profound than already heated air which wont expand as much or as quickly. thus, more power. this is just the general theory. 2 degrees of temp could make a significant difference, but it just depends on the design and life of the engine.
Yeah what they said, your colder air theory is a little off though.
Colder air makes more power because it has more oxygen in it, so more fuel molecules can find oxygen molecules to burn with. Stock engines always run out of oxygen before they run out of fuel to burn.
whats happening?: radiator fluid runs through the throttle body warming the air up just before entering the intake manifold. this design is in place so when u start your engine when its cold, it warms up quickly. unless u live where temperatures drop below freezing, the radiator fluid warming you TB is entirely unnecessary. Even after the engine is warmed up, the radiator fluid doesn't stop flowing through the TB.
The reason for coolant to surround the throttle is becasue if you live in or travel to places were the tempature is freezing your throttle body could become stuck open or closed but here in california you aint gotta worry about that, well thats were im from.
Mod: so, what you do is by pass the TB. instead of having the radiator fluid line come out of the engine, through the TB, then back into the engine (see FSM for a diagram). Re-route the line so that it comes out and turns straight back in. buy a pair of plugs to cover the nipples on the TB, and thats it. very easy mod.
Gain: now you are able to keep the air as cold as you possibly can all the way to the piston. as much gain as u notice when installing an intake, thats what u should notice with this simple $2 mod. BUT, as everyone knows, even then, the ECU limits any kind of performance modification to the car. so for those that have a piggy or stand alone EMS, you should notice some gain. for those like myself that don't have those, u may or may not notice a difference.
supporting the theory?: picture ITBs (individual throttle bodies). no radiator fluid pass through. the intake for each piston is not more than 6 inches.... so cold air runs straight into the piston. for CAI systems for our 240s, the pipe runs right over the radiator which no doubt DOESN'T makes the point of a COLD AIR intake very effective. it also runs throught the intake manifold which gets very hot because of the engine. so in that, it generally supports the theory.
Possible problems?: i did this mod on a friends 97 prelude sh, and it caused his idle to rise and fall, rise and fall, contiuously. when that happens, it means the vtec is disabled too. so this mod won't work for most honda's.
other probs... not necessarily a prob, but the engine warming up may take a a little more time, but if u live in a city with a climate like mine (LA, CA), then your okay.
rps13drift, only if your TB has a fast idle control bi-metalic thing-a-ma-jig like the B14 200SX GA16DE engine does. But your car will just idle a lil higher for longer until the engien heat itself warms up enought to heat the fast idle control thing that on the TB of the mentioned type car.
i have not done this mod yet to my 240 for a couple reasons... i recently recieved a fix it ticket. so, just in case its illegal, which i highly highly doubt, i won't have to put it back together, and i haven't seen anyone mention it on here. so... just wanted to know if there was a reason, or if just no ones tried it. if no ones tried it, id be happy to experiment for u guys. i tried a couple months back to do this mod but there i practically no breathing room to get pliers in there... now that i have my engine out of the car, i wanted to ask real quick on here before i went for it.
i hope i covered the whole thing... i feel like i left a few things out... but any questions, please ask..
thanks
for those that never heard of this idea. hope it was insightful for you :)