-:- is it true that having a degree means more money in this era?

[widegts]

Im serious when I ask this. I want to know what others feel about this. I am currently in a very wierd position in my life, to do the shop thing for good, or school, or do designing w/ the shop for bodykit manufacturers, etc. I am asking because I would like to see what my fellow zilvia members feel about it.

Of course I know college grads will feel different compared to non-grads, and so on, but please let us know if your a college grad, and your feelings about this topic.

thanks in advance.

[BustedS13]

i don't have a degree. i'll probably wind up going back to school part time to finish up and get my bachelor's. but here's a very telling tale.

i have a job with at&t. a friend of mine got his bachelor's in marketing a few months ago. he's been applying for jobs all summer, and hasn't gotten anywhere. a couple weeks ago, he applied with at&t for a position that pays about 60% more than my current job. he was denied, but then applied for the same position i have, and was accepted. he starts his training next week and should be working here in a month.
but, after finding out about the job he was denied, i applied for it. i have an interview on monday, and i'll probably get it.

you're almost always better off with a degree, but it isn't everything. experience is almost equally valuable. a serious attitude when necessary, and some charisma doesn't hurt either.

[widegts]

Busteds13 - wow, I believe you though. Many of the college grads I know are having a hard time finding jobs for some reason. I wonder if your friends resume and his way of approaching the job had a deciding factor into the decision.

So any takers on contradicting the concept of experience over degree in a way..?

[Frosty_spl]

I got a degree, it will ALWAYS help. Kids fresh out of school have to have their hands held when on their first job. Experienced people do not. Thats why its hard for them to find a job. Experienced people with a degree should have an easier time.


My mom never got her HS diploma, and now works for Chrysler at a parts depot, and is a member of the UAW, and has been employed by the company for 25 years. My dad, who has a degree, works as an engineer at an airforce base. They make about the same salary.

So yea.

When looking for a job out of school, you have to bust your ass. Most people don't, so it takes them a year to find something.

[widegts]

I think that is true, many fresh out of college people dont have the corporate people skills but have the know how. Confidence can easily be killed just because you get rejected with a college degree.

I believe the difference between a person with a college degree and not is how they take rejection from a job.

[BustedS13]

make no mistake, having a degree should help. but i work with several people with degrees. if you get some worthless degree like art history, or get a degree in a crowded field like business, don't expect them to help you land a job. experience and attitude are infinitely important.

[widegts]

I agree. In business, so many and technically so easy to get a BS in that. I am currently going for that BS, and figured I have to make honors, use my 10+ years of experience, and attitude... to get my job

[cdlong]

on thing people often over look, starting salary is one thing, but down the road is another thing. think about where you'll be in 20 years. without a degree your job will be essentiall the same down the road. you'll make more money based on experience and skill, but not much. with a degree in the same field you have so much more upward mobility. you can move up to jobs that are more advanced and higher paying.

i'm totally pulling numbers out of my ass on this, but consider it this way. w/o a degree, 20 years down the road you might make 50% more than your starting salary, w/ a degree you could make 100-200% more. and the starting salary should be higher. i.e. a starting engineer might make $50k while a mid level manager/design chief would make $100k+.

[OptionZero]

i think a bachelor's degree is a little less useful nowadays, depending on what major

the engineering folks that graduate in 4 will always have it good; probably the same for the computer science folks

unless you happen to get lucky through chance or contacts, it seems like alot more people need to go to grad school of some sort to get really good jobs

without a degree, the options are limited

frankly, i think our educational system is f-d, we should ditch the 4 year college system and let kids go straight to learning about their trade, whether it's medicine, law, science, business, or whatever.

[BustedS13]

on thing people often over look, starting salary is one thing, but down the road is another thing. think about where you'll be in 20 years. without a degree your job will be essentiall the same down the road. you'll make more money based on experience and skill, but not much. with a degree in the same field you have so much more upward mobility. you can move up to jobs that are more advanced and higher paying.

i'm totally pulling numbers out of my ass on this, but consider it this way. w/o a degree, 20 years down the road you might make 50% more than your starting salary, w/ a degree you could make 100-200% more. and the starting salary should be higher. i.e. a starting engineer might make $50k while a mid level manager/design chief would make $100k+.

dude, i'll be making 50% more next month. you definitely can't quote percentages, although your general theory is pretty much correct.

if you don't want to go for a degree now, don't. it's probably best to get it over with early on, but if you're not ready for it, there's no reason to rush yourself. i didn't have a clue what i wanted to major in when i was in college, so i dropped out with an associate's degree. i'll go back for my major when i'm sure on what i want to do. deciding what you're going to do for the next 40 years is a daunting task for anybody.

[TurDz]

A degree helps to give you more opportunities/choices/freedom. In my opinion, a (useful) degree also gives you a better chance of getting a decent salary. Yes, there are many stories of people getting great paying jobs that they love w/o a degree, but there are even more people w/ degrees who get well-paying jobs.

You basically increase your odds for good pay...

[unwed_transient]

whether or not you need a degree depends on what you want to do for a living. so the answer will not be the same across the board.

as for me, my bachelor's degree was just the tip of the iceberg. i have 4 years left before i can do what i really want.

[OptionZero]

bear in mind it also depends on sector you want to work in

public sector v private makes a big difference

working for the government typically comes with better job security...it's not like the government goes out of business

meanwhile, private companies will likely give you more pay, but your job security will rise and fall with the economy

[kyoru]

i don't think a degree helps that much. i am believer that if you are good at what you will do, you will be payed accordingly (based on experience). a lot of grads here have a really hard time getting jobs with their degree because they have no experience/hands on training out of university. however grads from technical institutes focusing on specific subjects, tend to do very well here.

[mRclARK1]

i think a bachelor's degree is a little less useful nowadays, depending on what major

the engineering folks that graduate in 4 will always have it good; probably the same for the computer science folks

unless you happen to get lucky through chance or contacts, it seems like alot more people need to go to grad school of some sort to get really good jobs

without a degree, the options are limited

frankly, i think our educational system is f-d, we should ditch the 4 year college system and let kids go straight to learning about their trade, whether it's medicine, law, science, business, or whatever.

Agreed 100%... I think if you want to go to Law school (for example), you apply for it, pass your tests and get in. Granted I think it would still be beneficial to have some mandatory general education, besides a specific college, at the university level, taken at the same time as law school. However, I think an entire 4 year bachelors degree is unnecessary, and really over-doing it for most colleges.

whether or not you need a degree depends on what you want to do for a living. so the answer will not be the same across the board.

as for me, my bachelor's degree was just the tip of the iceberg. i have 4 years left before i can do what i really want.

Truth. I want to go to law school. I MUST have a BA or BSc. for my pre-reqs. So for me... it's no choice at all.

bear in mind it also depends on sector you want to work in

public sector v private makes a big difference

working for the government typically comes with better job security...it's not like the government goes out of business

meanwhile, private companies will likely give you more pay, but your job security will rise and fall with the economy

Very true. A friend of mine recently just quit a government job to go to the private sector, and is making $25K more a year. But his job security is not the same like was said. Basically government employees will almost NEVER be layed off (it can happen though) and rarely fired.

[OptionZero]

if you take a science/tech degree into law school, it'll pay dividends since the hot topic now is IP in the technology industry, and many firms are asking for those with technical backgrounds

[mRclARK1]

if you take a science/tech degree into law school, it'll pay dividends since the hot topic now is IP in the technology industry, and many firms are asking for those with technical backgrounds

Yup. I think the high majority of law school graduates/students still have a BA though, and not a Bsc. or Tech school degree. I actually don't even think a Tech school degree, or certificate, would be considered in place of a university granted Bachelors degree for a law school applicant... I could be wrong though.

[OptionZero]

sorry, i wasn't clear. I meant a degree from biology, chem, comp sci, programming, somethin like that. Patents on genetic and computer technology is a big field.

IP is one rare private practice area where you actually get to go to trial

[widegts]

i agree w/ optionzero...

as for the whole, where you work and the security. Technically if it is hard to get in, then that means its more security towards you. I know a lot of jobs that are easy to get in, but you will be worried if your going to get the boot.

that insecurity is what made me go back to school... even if i work at mcdonalds after, i know that i have the paper to achieve more then without it...

[OptionZero]

Let's also be a little honest...jobs often come down to who knows you. School might provide a better outlet for meeting people than trying to get a job on your own (without a degree).

Most schools have job offices for specific offices that at minimum will get you access to internship openings, summer gigs, maybe helping a professor or something. All of those open doors you don't normally have.

I got my first full-time job through a summer internship that the school career office listed. Of course, I was stupid and quit my job to go to law school (kill me...kill me now), but that step woulda been harder for me without being in school and having access to not just a degree but also the people and systems that lead to employers.

Summary:
You can get a job, you can get paid well without a degree. It just might be harder than if you did get one (depends on individual circumstances, of course). The job markets have just gotten saturated over time.

[k's_silvia2.0]

School & degrees is always a good thing to have just in case.
IMO.

[widegts]

yes sir that is true....! I'll take no chances, ill get my degree, use my 10 year experience, and street smarts. Some tell me, mike dont worry, ur street smart, well i dont want to take any chances, i want to make sure I have every aspect to become what i want to be

[qt_240]

I have my Bachlors and Im a Marketing Director, my buddy doesnt have his bachlors and he's a marketing director to0.. The Difference... He's older and started 3 years before me and Im getting paid $10,000 m0re a year than him.. so YES it matters..

*side note* IMO
Esp. in business I believe that it really has to do with the people you know, But having a degree under you is something you can always fall back on. To me its something that signify's acomplishment it somthing ive done..

[nissantuner22]

Yes, it matters. Of course there are those hard working people without degrees who are self motivated and get out in the job force early. Those people end up making good money. However later in their careers when it comes time to take a larger, better paying position, the guy with the piece of paper gets hired.

It also helps what school you went to. Big difference between USF, and UF.

[iwishiwas-all*]

it all depends on the field
now if you r pullin a desk jockey admin job, having a degree can help u get the job but its not absolutely necessary (unless the employer states so), BUT, to obtain a job making more than 80k a year ( i.e. engineer, architect, designer etc..) you not only need a degree, but a reputable one as well. go ask ford or toyota if they hire their engineers from ITT tech lol

just my 2 cents

[ManoNegra]

I think finishing school and obtaining a degree makes one a richer more rounded individual which is a plus in all aspects of life.
Now as far as making money I've come to notice that is more a question of who you know or better put - who you 'blow'. I can't stress the importance of connections and people skills when it comes to getting ahead at work.

[95Blue240sx]

I hate school so much with a passion and Im so behind. My transcript is full of W's and F's. Right now I work for a law firm doing patent paperwork and some data entry. I dont make tons but I make enough to support myself.

I would love to finish school, but its not always guaranteed that you will get a job off the bat. Many of my friends got lucky and are making 60-75k at 24. Im making half of that. But these guys are engineers, one mechanical the other computer.

My gf on the other hand finished with a BS in Human Resource. She only makes maybe 2-3 dollars more than me, but still bitches at me about school.

The thing is not what you are making right at this moment, its all about where you want to be in the future. If you have a degree in something it shows that you can work your way through obstacles and can complete assigned tasks.

For an entry level position in a tech company, who would they rather have? Some kid with 0 experience or some kid fresh out of school?

There is always exceptions though. If you are lucky enough to get the experience for what you want to do, you can ALWAYS work your way up. It will be a longer path thats more difficult though.

Personally I would rather not go to school and just work, its what Im doing now. BUT for the long run I want to finish school(probably go back next semester) It would just make me feel better that I have some sort of credibility in the specific field.


I can go on and on about this all day because I think about it so much and I see so many different scenarios. I have 3 older brothers and all three of them finished school with a BS. Only ONE of them are actually successful, meaning making 100k+ easy. The other two are probably making about the same or barely more than me. The oldest one, is not the successful one, its the second oldest.

[OptionZero]

it depends what the bachelor's is in and the individual

[mRclARK1]

Like was said before. For many people, a bachelors is just the stepping stone to another degree (IE: Law, Vet Med etc.)

If you want to do something like that; good luck being hired as an attorney without a Law degree, or a doctor without a Medical degree. lol

OptionZero: Are you still in Law school, or are you finished?

I leave you know...





To go back to class. :rofl:

[atom]

A degree isn't enough. It's an ice breaker. It gets you the interview. Applicable knowledge and proficiency will get you the job and keep it. A degree you got with a 2.0 GPA is not worth that much more often than not.

[OptionZero]

Like was said before. For many people, a bachelors is just the stepping stone to another degree (IE: Law, Vet Med etc.)

If you want to do something like that; good luck being hired as an attorney without a Law degree, or a doctor without a Medical degree. lol

OptionZero: Are you still in Law school, or are you finished?

I leave you know...





To go back to class. :rofl:


2nd year of 3

[steve shadows]

you're almost always better off with a degree, but it isn't everything. experience is almost equally valuable. a serious attitude when necessary, and some charisma doesn't hurt either.

bingo :wavey:

OptionZero where you going to school and how does it compare to BA/S lifestyle?

I was thinking of JD in a year or so.

[95Blue240sx]

I'll agree with you that a degree is an ice breaker of sort. But your last statement I will have to disagree with.

People like me who dont like school or what it represents are going just to get that paper by any means. Doesnt matter if thats finishing a BS with a 2.0. It doesnt tell you a GPA on your diploma does it?

Another thing is I dont like to work towards that paper(diploma) as hard I work for the green paper. Ive meet people just like that and their true colors wont show up on some exam, it shows in the workplace where your performance actually matters. School is whatever to me, but I still want to finish. When Im in the work place you wont think of me a someone who has just tried to slip by.



A degree isn't enough. It's an ice breaker. It gets you the interview. Applicable knowledge and proficiency will get you the job and keep it. A degree you got with a 2.0 GPA is not worth that much more often than not.

[OptionZero]

bingo :wavey:

OptionZero where you going to school and how does it compare to BA/S lifestyle?

I was thinking of JD in a year or so.

University of San francisco

JD life = treat it like a job or you'll fail, put in the hours, you're in direct competition with classmates and other law students for jobs, 1st year is virtually make or break your career; learn fast or fail

undergrad life = unless ur a science/engineering major, chill half the time and slide on by, focus is on learning about urself, meeting new people, exploring possibilities

[atom]

If someone tells me they got a degree with a low GPA two things immediately spring to mind.

1. You aren't that smart.
2. You might be smart but you are also lazy.

Either way it doesn't reflect well on your ability to perform in the real world. You can say that when the money is on the line you'll pick up the slack but old habits die hard.

Learning how to grind through tedious bullshit you hate while excelling is one of the most important things you can learn in high school or college, because no matter how much you love your job there will be those days where your job will make you just hate life. Better to learn how to deal with it in school where you can afford to screw up a little than in the real world.

I was lucky. I was one of those slackers that tried to coast through college. How much of a slacker was I the first two years? When I entered college I was on track to graduate in 3 years. I ended up barely graduating in 4, last two quarters I had to take 6 classes plus two summer school sessions. But during my third year of college I somehow pulled a rabbit out of my ass and got a pretty competitive internship at IBM. Thats where I learned just how mediocre I really was. If I hadn't gotten that internship, learned how to grind, and graduated college with the same slacker attitude I had I doubt very highly I'd have my job today.

[prang11]

^Atom: I had the same college experience.


My real worls experience so far.

I have a degree and am a small business owner. One of the things my degree helped me to do was get loans to start my business. I have been in business 1 year now and have paid down about 1/4 of my debt. My take home is pathetic in my mind, reason being because my loan payments are so high.

My buddy has no degree. Started his business 2 years before me. Out of debt at the end of year two and making more money than I do. Now at the end of year three he is stable and just bought a house. Now the race begins to see who can make more money over the next 10 years.

What I get out of this is that if you have a good work ethic, are self employed and dont mind going into a ton of debt right out of high school or college you should be succesful.

[ixfxi]

Of course I know college grads will feel different compared to non-grads, and so on, but please let us know if your a college grad, and your feelings about this topic.

College graduates will *feel* differently about this subject because they're in debt up the ass because of school, so needless to say.. they'll have plenty of excuses to justify their expenditure.

There are too many factors here, and each person has a different mind-set that either requires school or doesnt. One size doesnt fit all.

Most important thing is to try to determine what field you want to go in. Obviously, you cant become a doctor or lawyer without school - you need the degree to practice. Certain fields are more flexible, and if you are motivated and not lazy, and you have the right connections.. you can squeek in, learn the trade and advance your career as you pickup experience and knowledge.

Bottom line that most people seem to forget, is that we're all in the same rat-race paying for the same expenses (some more, some less), and overall.. are seeking the same things. You need a home, most likely a car, food, insurances, etc - no matter what you do, you need to generate money to pay for these things, period.

So you can fuck around and go to school, rack up loans.. start a practice, doesnt matter - just make that fuckin cheddar to pay those bills (and those loans), and work toward a positive future.

If you scratch school and follow a profession you desire, cool.. just remember that no one has your back but you. Get up in the morning, bust your ass, learn the trade, always readup and gain that knowledge.

Too many slackers in this world... school or no school - you gotta work to stay on top, period.

[widegts]

So you can fuck around and go to school, rack up loans.. start a practice, doesnt matter - just make that fuckin cheddar to pay those bills (and those loans), and work toward a positive future.

If you scratch school and follow a profession you desire, cool.. just remember that no one has your back but you. Get up in the morning, bust your ass, learn the trade, always readup and gain that knowledge.

Too many slackers in this world... school or no school - you gotta work to stay on top, period.

slackers, tell me about it, i was/am one of them. I put ''apply yourself'', to try to remind everyone to do so.

we ARE ALL CAPABLE OF BECOMING SOMETHING GREAT, most of us just need to apply ourselves.

[ixfxi]

theres nothing worse than wasted talent, Calogero

[JRas]

a degree gets you foot in the door and that's all it's needed for

[cdlong]

it really depends on your degree. you do actually learn things in college other than how to drink and party.

[A Spec Products]

No

Look at me

I have a degree

And I work in this industry making squat

Somebody failed!

[aznpoopy]

statistically it is true

but a degree doesn't guarantee anything

[OptionZero]

what did logan major in?

[illvialuver]

this is actually funny, i went to a local pub and ran into a guy from high school he went to a four year university, and now he is working for the city doing your standard after school, h20 school rec type of thing, that he could have done by just sticking with the job for four years.
and he is not the only case, of people who go to four year universities just to spend all that cash to be a manager at a local grocer, or to sell parts to us on zilvia( jk logan, you know your cool)
but its goes the same i know plenty of people who are successful in sales without graduating from highschool, but its really hit and miss, right place at the right time and motivation and drive.

i mean if you go to school and end up at a unrelated job for the rest of your life at least you went to college and did something and had the experience. :bigok:

[S13SilviaGirl]

It all depends on HOW you use it, where the degree is from, and what it is in. If you want to be a nurse, a degree in English ain't gonna cut it. Yet, most govt. jobs only require an associates. Some do require a BA/BS. It all depends. It shows that you have the dedication to go through the rigors of college and finish it. That in itself says a lot to prospective employers. In my opinion, yes, it can help. But, you have to be the one to sell yourself, you can't just rely on the degree to get a job for you.

[Edgar]

I agree with Lisa on what she said. I think you can have a PHD and still work at McDonalds if you dont have the strive to make it in life.
You have to be Headstrong. I know that if I dont do good get a degree use my Spanish for something here in the Midwest make some loot I wont be able to have what ive always wanted. A FAMILY with awesome babies and have a nice house with puppies running around. Have my 3 car garage where I play in on the Weekends, etc etc
Get the point?
I know people that are like mid 20's still living at home doing nothing with thier time, it's about motivation and doing the best that you can if you are down with that.
I work with older people that have a degree and they do the same thing as me here at the Hospital and I only have a High School Diploma until this stage of my education and I am almost at my Associates in Business Management.
I know I want to do something with Business, I just dont know.
I am planning on wanting to learn JDM Language and get real good at it, and also get my French and Italian baller status.
Who knows where ill be in 5 years, just keep your head up guys get your damn degrees it's just something to do and go get a job and make monies to do what you really want to do.

[widegts]

Im in a hard position right now. I am about to get my associates also in business just like Edgar. School is currently hard as hell now, but still bareable haha.

In the other hand, my company (KEEP IN MIND, ITS JUST ME PERIOD), has landed an account with Marga Hills. They contacted a local company here in my area to find someone who has the skills to make plugs, molds, and manufacture the new designs they want for the US market.

So, Marga Hills contacted Kure, who contacted AIT, who refered ME. It was a bit surprising but Im happy none the less. How does this make me a bit confused at the moment well this is the case...

Making a one off kit and getting it mass produced over seas cost a lot of money. Rough estimate is I charge 10g+ to make one, they spend about another 10g+ for the molds, shipping and all that. So in a sense, I am in a contract for 1 year for now, where this is a opportunity to make a great business relationship and have a carreer in this field.
======

1year at $4500-$8000 a month (depending on project: 350 / pinto / bmw)

At lowest $4500x12 = $54,000 none taxed

====

So with that in mind, I want to focus on the projects they gave me alone, right now its a NSX this coming TUESDAY. Soon after a 350z full widebody design, then a SUBY STI Widebody design, and so forth.

YET I DONT, even though I am in contract with them, it still doesnt mean they cant go out of business, or after that 1 year drop me. Then I am back at square one, no degree.

SCHOOL IS GETTING SO HARD, AND now this... ahhhhh! what to do what to do...

ANY ADVICE GUYS/GALS? Little feed back might help me realize things I havent thought of due to the amount of stress I am in currently.

- GF just graduated, helping her find a career job because she might have to move home if not, haha.

- Family is going through some stupid petty quarrels that is affecting everyone

- School is getting harder as I get to my Core classes

- Business has a opportunity to become something

- Still im a bit broke so im selling my car and other stuff. haha. Ya just cause I have this opportunity w/ Marga Hills, doesnt mean im rich haha. Before this happend, I had some business investments that didnt work out, so no im paying for it, eh!

and minor things that seems big because of the other problems I have...

-=o(

[SiI40sx]

Honestly I don't think theres a wrong or right to "getting a degree" or "not getting one". Its pretty much up to you. Are you good at what you do? Do you feel like you need a degree to go further? Then do what benefits you. I'm not saying you NEED a degree or you DON'T need one, just do what benefits your career path. But if you decide not to finish school its not a big deal, why? Because my dad bills at $150/hr and $250/hr during court testimony and everything is usually portal to portal, oh yeah he only graduated highschool. One thing he's always told me "there's no substitute for hard work"