Help*** push start horror story

[CoasTek240]

***So the problem is now with my J30 diff popping out of the mounts and cracking the subframe...
Ok. So the other day I went to start my 92 Coupe (97rebuilt motor, original accessories), and i got one click and thats it. Checked for spark and it was good. Plenty of Battery and im fairly positive the alternator was alright being as it was looked at a month ago and was fine.
I wanted to save my self the money of getting my car towed and i decided to push start my car. I was told i need to be going a good 4 or 5 mph to get the things going. I had my father and a friend push me in first gear and i popped the clutch at 4 mph. The car struggled to start, i heard it crank over. and then the differential made a crazy lound noise like i just dropped the hammer. I thought maybe bc i had 18" rims or a J30 diff that it was just a lil too much to push start, but i tired one more time, being the cheap ass that i am.
this time i did not pop the clutch till 6mph, but an even louder scarrier noise came from my rear end. and now the flange where my diff and driveshaft meet is rubbing my rear sway bar?!?!?!... wtf. I am debating getting my car towed either to the shop or back to my house. i dunno. help me make a better decision then i would by myself.

background* I have J30 diff ('95'96) I just replaced the s13 cover and it bolted up to my stock output flanges. the only thing i didnt. do reguarding the swap is install solid spacers on the front mounting points of the diff. would this cause my diff to move forward and rub on the sway bar? is my subframe maybe bent bc of trying to pushstart my car? ive got to take a look tommorrow when i can.
any positive responses are much appreciated

[breakindrifts]

Push start in 2nd gear. And WTF you don't pop the clutch you let it out smooth as you would during normal use.

And no, push starting your car doesn't cause your damn subframe to bend.

Just try getting a jump from a friend, if that doesn't work and your CERTAIN the battery is fine; hit the starter with a wrench or something while trying to start to get it to crank.

[adjaga500]

yeah dude 2nd gear is the way to go... this has happened to me before... but being the cheapass that i am, i got my truck from home and some big ass chains and pulled my car home myself (with my dad maneuvering the effed up CRX behind me of course).. another cheap way to go is to rent a U-HAUL dolly (i think that's what they're called) and tow your car yourself without risking a fat ticket like i did with the chains.. the dolly should be around 40 bucks.. i think that tow trucks are a lot more expensive than that.. good luck with that

[CoasTek240]

thanks for the quick responses... I never knew about push starting in 2nd gear. this is the 1st time ive ever done it. also when i was in th drivers seat (the first time, i eased the clutch on like i normally do, thats prolly why it alsmost started) my Father was the one who made the second attempt and caused that crazy noise from my diff. so if theres def no way i torqued subframe then i mustve had a previous problem with my driveline(diff/driveshaft)...theres no reason it should be rubbing my rear sway bar in the position it was meant to be in. I will take a look, and pictures tommorrow.

thanks again.

[steve shadows]

maybe you hydrolocked the motor

than forced the drive line to rotate

mmmmm good times

[Sir]

maybe you hydrolocked the motor

than forced the drive line to rotate

mmmmm good times

thats exactly what Im thinking.
But I still think the clutch should slip before diff would break the bolts.

get it hope, and see if the motor will turn over by hand.

[CoasTek240]

ok so i took a look, and the front two mounts on my diff didnt utilized the J30 extended hardware, but i didnt put a metal spacer in there and it looks like it it popped free from the mounts. I just got it towed back to my house. Im going to fix the differential and them troubleshoot, and possibly replace the starter. Hopefully none of this shit is true about hydrolocking my motor. Can anyone explain breifly? How would that happen by popping the clutch going 6 mph? I really hope not. This is my 3rd KA in the past year and i spent a lot of money on this block. How do i turn the motor by hand? you mean see if my crank, rods, pistons and shit rotate? or what? I'm scared for real. this sucks.

[brokeAs240sx]

I believe they are saying you could have hydrolocked your motor prior to push starting - in which case, no amount of jump-starting/push-starting will fix your problem - that's a worse case scenario, though.

The diff popping out because you didn't use the proper hardware pieces to install it - that's a separate problem all together. That would explain the nasty sounds from the rear end.

You can turn the motor by hand by using a large socket wrench on the crank pulley and rotating - has nothing to do w/ your problem...

Have you tried jumpstarting the car? Or jumpstarting + tapping the starter? It's far easier to do than making people push your car.

[ka24de_s14]

did you try checking your battery post terminals they may be bad, thats what happen to my car , battery is fine, alternator n starter was, and it ended up being the post was bad

[CoasTek240]

I really appreciate all the help guys. Im going to take a half day at work tommorrow and replace my Distribution block and fuse, going to my battery, and im going to fix the diff problem. After that ill see if i can jump/start my car. How would i have hydrolocked the motor? the motor has less than 3K miles on it. built AMS block with rebuilt head and professionally installed. Its been running great the whole time except that it gets a lil too hot sometimes when i dont let the car warm up enough. ill check things out tommorow and post back. thanks again.

[CoasTek240]

no but it doesnt take more than 2 sec to do that.

[frosti108]

Push start in 2nd gear. And WTF you don't pop the clutch you let it out smooth as you would during normal use.

And no, push starting your car doesn't cause your damn subframe to bend.

Just try getting a jump from a friend, if that doesn't work and your CERTAIN the battery is fine; hit the starter with a wrench or something while trying to start to get it to crank.


this is the post to follow. 2nd gear, DROP the clutch, hit starter with wrench... all perfectly good info.

also, get more speed next time if your gonna push start. if you CANT get much speed, use 1st gear because it will give you more engine rpms its just a tid bit harder on the car

[breakindrifts]

LOL at the statement of "EASING" the clutch out when pop starting a car...
Thats just retarded.... Unless you like pissing the pusher off.

Who said anything about easing?
I said SMOOTH.
If you're going to use quotation marks, at least fucking quote what was originally stated.

Ugh, then you leave me neg rep saying it's "bunk info." What a fucking illiterate moron. My contribution was still a lot more helpful than your post and your petty little neg rep right?

[gotta240]

That is BUNK info... I would rather someone leave NO REPLY than a WRONG ANSWER... This site is full of people who spew bullshit just to seem like they know something. Have you actually push started a car.....EVER????

you DONT let it out "smooth". Yes, i quoted you wrong....my bad... Either way, stupid suggestion that will make it HARDER to get the car started will get your pushers pissed.

[georgesal]

i know what happeneed same thing happened to my friend. did you use the mettatl washers on the front 2 bolts that hold the diff to the subframe. sounds like you didint and now your diff is just hangning down on the rear sway bar. jack up the car get new diff bushings and some good fender washers and you are done

[babowc]

yeah.. last time i had to roll start, i had to pop it in first..
dropping it, that is.

[gotta240]

Thats one thing i never really understood(school me if you KNOW the answer).

Why does everyone swear that you should go to second gear when pop-starting a car? I've always had a better time starting in 1st, simply because the same MPH in 1st will give higher revs... Anyone have "THE" answer?

[CoasTek240]

i know what happeneed same thing happened to my friend. did you use the mettatl washers on the front 2 bolts that hold the diff to the subframe. sounds like you didint and now your diff is just hangning down on the rear sway bar. jack up the car get new diff bushings and some good fender washers and you are done

yes. Exactly. I didnt use metal washers, just the bushings. it ripped out of the bushings. I dont know where to buy those? or even what to buy. s13 diff bushings.. or J30 diff bushings. this sucks so much.
as a result of that, my diff was angled down so much that it cracked my subframe. right where the rear mounts are. (not a picture of my car. Just for comparison)
http://a382.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/100/l_51e9a008e4e8fec8b8c6aa93fb80a59d.jpg
should I get a new subframe or should i get that one bent back and welded?

Mods....sorry this thread change topics. make a new one, or just change the name?

[gotta240]

weld the bitch....unless you hace access to another one.

[babowc]

i would just buy a new subframe..
it'd probably end up costing the same damn price getting it bent back and welded, + the safety factors come into play with an already fked up subframe.

go to the junkyard!

[UNISA JECS]

LOL...damn im sorry but I was just thinking what that shit would've looked like with a diffrential in the road way....comedy....good thing it didn't happen to you though...im really supprised the aluminum over didn;t break in all this mess or did it?

[CoasTek240]

im really supprised the aluminum over didn;t break in all this mess or did it?

i guess ill find out as this whole thing plays out. Im pulling a lot of it apart tommorrow. Ill make sure to take pictures. In the meantime. Im gonna need to source a subframe at a local junkyard, as well as find some sort of replacement, J30, or 240sx diff bushings, as well as a bunch of other bushings i might as well replace while im at it.
got suggestions.

[bigflip]

I bought a coupe and had the same problem with the cracked subframe,it was hitting the swaybars.When inspecting it they did'nt have any bolts near the driveshaft.Mine did'nt line up so they did'nt put the 2 bolts up front.Thats the reason why my drive shaft is hitting the sawy bar.
So what i did is got a jack to support the diff. put near the driveshaft, loosen the 4 bolts at the back and move it until it's aligned with the front 2 bolts.I was surprise on how much you can move it around when you loosen the 4 bolts at the back.My subframe still have a cracked by the 4 bolts and it's been 2 years and don't have any problem with it like that.
I hope this help you?

[babowc]

if you're getting work done on the subframe.
go ahead and get some good bushings for it. solid or poly.

diff bushings didnt exist for s13, afaik.
last time i had my subframe pulled, there were no bushings on the diff.
this was <1wk ago.

[CoasTek240]

if you're getting work done on the subframe.
go ahead and get some good bushings for it. solid or poly.

diff bushings didnt exist for s13, afaik.
last time i had my subframe pulled, there were no bushings on the diff.
this was <1wk ago.

im in the process of buying one now. but i think i need j30 diff bushings....

[NismoSilvia270R]

with the starting problem..

my 15 year old starter harness was corroded. wiggled it around a bit and it worked,

until the starter started shooting sparks from that short wire between the solenoid and the crank. then i changed the starter

[ladiesman8527]

im in the process of buying one now. but i think i need j30 diff bushings....

i believe you can use z32/s14 differential bushings. correct me if im wrong. i have a j30 diff, and although it was a long time ago, i think i used nismo z32 bushings. you can get them here. http://www.courtesyparts.com/nms/s14/s14_bushings.html i think the only ones you need are labeled #19, #20, and #21 bushings in the diagram. i dont believe you need the bushings labeled #18. hope this helps.

[daryl337]

a hydrolock would not happen for no reason of course, has your motor been acting up or was there ever a sign of water in the oil?

At any rate, any sort of clutch popping could put anough stress on a rearend that is improperly mounted. Will it rip itself out of its mounts? Usually not, but if it was mounted up all wacked out in the first place, then there is no telling what could happen.

Try to hand turn the motor off of the crank pulley, and if it turns, then do the necessary repairs on the rear end, and go to work on that starter problem.

[m91silvia]

i never had any bushings of any sort when i replaced by diff on the subframe..
are there supposed to be? I know s14 do have those bushings, but i dunno about s13.

[projectRDM]

David, I'll send the bushings, washers, and bolts needed along with the subframe.

[CoasTek240]

i never had any bushings of any sort when i replaced by diff on the subframe..
are there supposed to be? I know s14 do have those bushings, but i dunno about s13.

s13s dont have diff bushings. its metal to metal. but i have a j30 diff. and they have bushings, which i used with no washers and the bushings ripped right out of the mounts. i need new ones. looks like ill use nismo z32 or s14 bushings as someone stated above.

[m91silvia]

hm.. really?
i didnt have any bushings on my j30.

maybe i should really check it... before something like this happens?

[CoasTek240]

Russ, you are the shit!.... fucking awesome.

[projectRDM]

hm.. really?
i didnt have any bushings on my j30.

maybe i should really check it... before something like this happens?

The J30 diff is the same snout as the S14/S15, but the bushings are pressed in instead of slid in. On both units there's a cup washer on top, however J30s use a cup washer on the bottom as well, S14/S15 uses a flat washer that presses against the bushing. On most J30 installs I've seen, the installer doesn't realize the bushing isn't supported by just the bolt and no washer, and even though it's pressed in the load on the diff, backed by the weight of the unit eventually tears the bushings out, causing it to drop and hit the swaybar. I'd suggest anyone using a J30 double check that, I've seen one car, a 360whp KA-t, do serious driveline damage when the diff dropped.

[s13silvia123]

my subframe cracked twice i knew the bushing were a problem after it happened twice. the second time i was using washers. it still pop and the diff still drops if i try to launch my car. i've check it pretty often to see if the subframe crack and reweld it.

for those who reweld their subframe make sure you weld in the front and the back of it to make it stronger.

[CoasTek240]

my subframe cracked twice i knew the bushing were a problem after it happened twice. the second time i was using washers. it still pop and the diff still drops if i try to launch my car. i've check it pretty often to see if the subframe crack and reweld it.

for those who reweld their subframe make sure you weld in the front and the back of it to make it stronger.

Thats why im buying a new subframe, and swapping everything over. and using the proper parts this time. If theres one thing ive learned in the past years with my 240's is, do it right the first time and save yourself a lot of hastle. thanks again Russ. I knew youd be the person i needed to talk to.