Redtop bein' a bitch!!

[harangatang]

ok, heres the dealy-o. everything is hooked up properly. all vac, all wiring, etc.. The engine will crank over all day long, but it wont start. getting plenty of fuel, I can smell it with valve cover off, and in the exhaust.

Now for the funny part.. The next thing to check for would be either timing or spark right?? After resetting the timing to fsm like 10 times, and it still wasnt starting... began to think it was something else.. The coils are getting ignition, tested them. so I thought maybe the plugs are bad... bought new plugs. Still didnt do anything. Now, with the plugs in the coils ontop of the valvecover, 3 ppl didnt see any sparking. When holding the plug directly to the spring on the coil without the little rubber thing on the end of it attached, the plug had a o-so-wonderful spark.....?????????? wtf?? with the plug in the coil, it doesnt spark, but without the little rubber tip on the coil, it works fine..

Ok, so, we then tried to jump wire it. laid the coils on top of the vc, then ran wires from the coils to the plugs in the engine... Nothing again. wtf is going on. Even my dad whos a 20+ yr electrician couldnt tell wth was goin on..

ANY help would be greatly appreciated at this point, as I am totally clueless..

[Luvs2slide]

ok, heres the dealy-o. everything is hooked up properly. all vac, all wiring, etc.. The engine will crank over all day long, but it wont start. getting plenty of fuel, I can smell it with valve cover off, and in the exhaust.

Now for the funny part.. The next thing to check for would be either timing or spark right?? After resetting the timing to fsm like 10 times, and it still wasnt starting... began to think it was something else.. The coils are getting ignition, tested them. so I thought maybe the plugs are bad... bought new plugs. Still didnt do anything. Now, with the plugs in the coils ontop of the valvecover, 3 ppl didnt see any sparking. When holding the plug directly to the spring on the coil without the little rubber thing on the end of it attached, the plug had a o-so-wonderful spark.....?????????? wtf?? with the plug in the coil, it doesnt spark, but without the little rubber tip on the coil, it works fine..

Ok, so, we then tried to jump wire it. laid the coils on top of the vc, then ran wires from the coils to the plugs in the engine... Nothing again. wtf is going on. Even my dad whos a 20+ yr electrician couldnt tell wth was goin on..

ANY help would be greatly appreciated at this point, as I am totally clueless..

Even if your car's timing is off, it will still start...just the idle will be off. As for the ignition, sounds you doing some crazy as shit. Make sure you have everything wired CORRECTLY. Make sure all of your grounds are good. Test them with multimeters; def check where your coil packs ground. Pics might help as well...

[harangatang]

Even if your car's timing is off, it will still start...just the idle will be off. As for the ignition, sounds you doing some crazy as shit. Make sure you have everything wired CORRECTLY. Make sure all of your grounds are good. Test them with multimeters; def check where your coil packs ground. Pics might help as well...

all the wiring is correct. like I said, the coilpacks are firing... just the spark plugs arent, unless you take the rubber tip off them. I guess a full check of the ignition system w/ multimeter will be next.

Im thinking it may be the ground... cause its like, it only fires some of the time... idk:loco:

[kuramaya]

I think your CAS isnt set right.
http://www.frsport.com/sr20det-crank-angle-sensor-cas-timing-guide-p-648.html

[wangan_cruiser]

good information. ill check up this thing when i do my swap

[harangatang]

I think your CAS isnt set right.
http://www.frsport.com/sr20det-crank-angle-sensor-cas-timing-guide-p-648.html

thats what I thought at first. but like I said... I know I reset it to to fsm/factory/frsoprt like 10 times correctly. And it still didnt start. I have heard that some s13 sr's timing is 180' off, so I also tried that. you turn the cas rotor 180' from factory and put it back in. It was closer to starting with it turned 180' then it ever did b4... IDFK anymore..:confused:

On another note.. even if the cas isnt correctly installed now, but Im about 98% sure it is, that doesnt take away from the fact that the spark plugs arent firing.. and the coilpacks do.. it doesnt make any sense.


Can some 1 send me a link to the fsm or page in the fsm about reassembling a cas and how to test it to make sure it works please?

I think Im going to check all the engine/ ignition grounds today. Where did yall ground the wire coming off the coilpack harness thats right behind the block??

[steve shadows]

Nothing again. wtf is going on. Even my dad whos a 20+ yr electrician couldnt tell wth was goin on..

ANY help would be greatly appreciated at this point, as I am totally clueless..

How about injector condition?

Wiring on pins from ecu, sometimes get corroded and signal to fire injectors never gets to the injectors.

ECU condition?

Sounds like cas is working

do you smelt fuel in the cylinder when you put your head down there with the spark plugs out?

here are some various links for FSM

http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=162371&highlight=fsm

[MELLO*SOS]

Check the ecu harness plug on the ecu, make sure it's tightened all the way. Do you have any codes? What rubber tip on the spark plug are you typing about; do you mean the boot that connects the coilpack to the top of the plug?

[SILVIA_KIDs14.5]

your ignitor chip could be bad if the spark is not getting any where with the rubber peice on the coilpacks.or you have a loose ground

[harangatang]

Check the ecu harness plug on the ecu, make sure it's tightened all the way. Do you have any codes? What rubber tip on the spark plug are you typing about; do you mean the boot that connects the coilpack to the top of the plug?



yes, the rubber boot on the tip that connects the plug to the coil

havent run a diag. but my brother borrowed 1 from a friend, so im going to do that today also.

[harangatang]

your ignitor chip could be bad if the spark is not getting any where with the rubber peice on the coilpacks.or you have a loose ground

thats just it... the coils fire just fine everytime.. its when u plug the spark plugs in, the coils arent firing with the boot on.. but with the boot off, they work just fine! its fuckin stupid.. and doesnt make any sense.

[harangatang]

How about injector condition?

Wiring on pins from ecu, sometimes get corroded and signal to fire injectors never gets to the injectors.

ECU condition?

Sounds like cas is working

do you smelt fuel in the cylinder when you put your head down there with the spark plugs out?

here are some various links for FSM

http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=162371&highlight=fsm


i smell plenty of fuel in the cylinders and exhaust, but Ill prolly end up checking them anyway..

and the link to the s14 sr20 fsm doesnt work, well the link does, but when you dl it, adobe says its an incomplete file and wont open it.

[MELLO*SOS]

It's possible your boots are damaged... But all of them??? Did you say you tried with plug wires instead, how did that work?

[harangatang]

It's possible your boots are damaged... But all of them??? Did you say you tried with plug wires instead, how did that work?

I dont see how the boots could be damaged.. its just a piece of rubber. theyre not cut or cracked or anything. IDK.
we jap wired the plugs to the coils. With the coils unplugged, lying on top of the vc, and the plugs in the engine, ran a wire from each coil to the correct plug, with OUT the boot. And it just cranked over and over like it has been. its so dumb.. direct plug to coil with boot doesnt work. plug to coil with no boot works. coil to plug with no boot and a wire between the 2 doesnt work either.. dumbest shit Ive ever seen!

we tried all 4 coils with no plugs and they worked. But tried them with plugs in, out of the engine and none of them fired.. And 4 ppl all came to the same conclusion that the plugs HAVE to be touching the springs inside the boot.

[Luvs2slide]

The ground for the coil packs should ground to the firewall via a grounding strip silver-ish wire. Should be a good ol' 10mm.

[harangatang]

ok, I had that 1 grounded, dont know how well though.. But there is a wire coming right off the coilpack harness. you know which 1 Im talking about? did you ground that 1 to the firewall as well?

The ground for the coil packs should ground to the firewall via a grounding strip silver-ish wire. Should be a good ol' 10mm.

[harangatang]

the grounds didnt do much. after I made sure they were connected, i tried to start it again. it kinda wanted to start, but after the 1st try, it just sounded like it has ever time b4 that..

no one has any ideas? im about to take it to a damn shop..

[xDATx]

Are you getting 55 from the ECU? Is your ECU cover dented?
All fuses OK?

Is the ground from the head to the firewall connected that you just mentioned?

Is the switch on the clutch pedal OK?

[SR201AB]

You dont have your feed and return lines backwards do u?

[Z U L8R]

You dont have your feed and return lines backwards do u?

HAHAHA. that's EXACTLY what i was thinking. especially since he said he could smell fuel.

make sure the fuel return line (the hose that doesn't have the fuel filter on it, is going to the fuel pressure regulator. and the fuel hose with the fuel filter on it, is feeding the fuel to the rail and all the injectors THEN the fuel is going to the fuel pressure regulator and returning to the tank.

also check your ecu fuse that it's not blown.

if your fuel lines are correct, and the ecu fuse is not blown. hook a test light up to the POSITIVE battery cable, pull an injector plug off and while someone's cranking the car over, test that one of the wires on the injector plug is getting it's ground pulse from the ecu, which will complete the circuit for your test light thus your test light will flicker. usually there's a red wire which is the 12volt ignition power to the injector plug, then the other wire is the ground signal from the ecu that pulses the injector. this is called "noid" signal. if you're getting a noid signal and everything else i've said is correct, then swap coil packs with someone and go from there.

i've seen some coil packs that have a little piece of metal that when the coil pack is sitting on top of the plug it's all touching, then guy goes to check/change his plugs, doesn't notice it fell out then has spark to the coil but the spark never reaches the plug, therefore no start. most however have a spring that sit's on/touches the metal top of the spark plug. if your have to pull the spring to make it a little longer so it'll touch the plug, and you still don't start, double check that you wired in the orange "start signal" wire on the dash plug, double check that the ecu is turning on.

if the ecu is turning on, and your dash plug is wired 100% correctly, check your 2 green efi/egi pump relays on the passenger side, maybe swap those out. after that, if the bitch still won't start, pop the cover off the ecu and look for burn marks, try known good ecu. sorry for getting long winded, but i'd like to see your car running. good luck
Dave

[harangatang]

HAHAHA. that's EXACTLY what i was thinking. especially since he said he could smell fuel.

make sure the fuel return line (the hose that doesn't have the fuel filter on it, is going to the fuel pressure regulator. and the fuel hose with the fuel filter on it, is feeding the fuel to the rail and all the injectors THEN the fuel is going to the fuel pressure regulator and returning to the tank.

also check your ecu fuse that it's not blown.

if your fuel lines are correct, and the ecu fuse is not blown. hook a test light up to the POSITIVE battery cable, pull an injector plug off and while someone's cranking the car over, test that one of the wires on the injector plug is getting it's ground pulse from the ecu, which will complete the circuit for your test light thus your test light will flicker. usually there's a red wire which is the 12volt ignition power to the injector plug, then the other wire is the ground signal from the ecu that pulses the injector. this is called "noid" signal. if you're getting a noid signal and everything else i've said is correct, then swap coil packs with someone and go from there.

i've seen some coil packs that have a little piece of metal that when the coil pack is sitting on top of the plug it's all touching, then guy goes to check/change his plugs, doesn't notice it fell out then has spark to the coil but the spark never reaches the plug, therefore no start. most however have a spring that sit's on/touches the metal top of the spark plug. if your have to pull the spring to make it a little longer so it'll touch the plug, and you still don't start, double check that you wired in the orange "start signal" wire on the dash plug, double check that the ecu is turning on.


if the ecu is turning on, and your dash plug is wired 100% correctly, check your 2 green efi/egi pump relays on the passenger side, maybe swap those out. after that, if the bitch still won't start, pop the cover off the ecu and look for burn marks, try known good ecu. sorry for getting long winded, but i'd like to see your car running. good luck
Dave

Me and 3 other ppl all said the springs off the coil packs are touching the plugs, but Ill try stretching the spring some more..
What plug is the "dash plug"? the k3 plug next to the ecu??

HAHA the fuel lines were crossed. the pump sounded totally diff from what it use to.. but it still didnt start. Im gonna try the other things u told me, but itll be a while. its about to rain AGIAN, and my bros 240's currently in the garage cause hes doin a z32 brake swap. so I cant move his :(
thanks for the tips! :bigok:

[Flybert]

Check your cam timing as well. I just went through diagnostic hell on a friends motor swap recently when we found out that this motor straight from japan had the cam timing way off and it ran like shit. Wasted so much time swapping out a ton of other crap when it was something simple as cam timing. It was funny because it felt like a timing issue but I never thought that this motor which looked untouched had cams that were way off.

Here is the link to check it.

http://www.rs-enthalpy.com/tuning/sr-cam-alignment.doc


Also check for bare wires and continuity on your harness because they tend to be effed up when they come straight from japan.

[harangatang]

Using a wiring guide for the ECU connector, measured the following voltages (with key in "On" or "Start" positions):

Pin 4 ECCS Relay (Red/White) = 12v always (even with key removed)
Pin 34 Start Signal from Ignition switch (Orange) = 0v
Pin 36 Ignition (Black/Red) = 12v
Pin 38 ECCS Power (Black/White) = 0v
Pin 46 ECCS Backup Power (Red) = 12v always (even with key removed)
Pin 47 ECCS Power (Black/White) = 0v
Pin 104 Fuel Pump Relay (Black/Purple) = 12v

Can anyone perform same readings and reply back with your results ?