Is Oil Just Oil?

[2plus4plus0eq6]

A buddy of mine has a pretty good car and when he rebuilt his engine, he put mobile 1 and it didn't run as good as when he used shit oil.

He told me that in the end, "Oil is oil. Its not going to make much of a difference. Royale purple or mobile 1 is twice the price, although you don't have to get an oil change for twice as long"

I pick up some 15-40 shitty penzoil long life whatever for my s14 sr20det. Someone else told me that I should be running synthetic because my stock t28 turbo is oil cooled.

Is any of this going to make a difference? By putting in a non-synthetic shit oil, will it mess anything up?

Thanks

[420sx]

oil is not just oil.

redline
torco
mobil 1

from top to bottom

royal purple is crap


nonsynthetic oil "cooks". it breaks down faster. it gets thin faster and stays thin longer. it makes your seals swell up and eventually crack overtime.

synthetic is more advanced because it requires more extensive manufacturing and r&d. it keeps your shit cooler, lubicates better, stays effective longer. in the end it saves you motor life and money.

if you want to lean more go google. or ask anyone who runs their car seriously.
/end thread

[chmercer]

dont think too hard

just buy mobil 1

its pretty cheap and its good

use that, dont question it

[Unit-121]

Hey I hear valvo was good it was actually rated top three for sr20 motors they did an article about that someone told me from RPS.

[Irukandji]

I hate these oil threads.

Mobil 1, Done.


Crappy car burning oil? Run thicker organic oil.

Drive your car hard and want it to last? run synthetic

[johngriff]

Mobil 1 = Crap.

Valvoline Durablend for the best moderately priced oil.

I swear to god.

Royal Purple has good pressure tests, but does not run well in turbo cars b/c of gapping. It burns. Motul is another failure.

Redline in SR is awesome, Need to try AMS and Neo Synthetic next.

[2plus4plus0eq6]

sorry guys for the oil thread. I tried searching but didn't find anything that would help myself understand why one is better than another. I don't expect oil is give me 20 extra hp or anything. I was just curious to know if it affected my turbo at all and if I should be running synthetic.

[nrg]

mobil 1 isn't crap. before saying anything, how about you get your oil tested?

send your samples in to www.blackstone-labs.com
someone on freshalloy made a thread a few years ago with awesome results from many oil. this was all done on an sr20 motor.

[johngriff]

Keep this thread open, I'll host and post a PDF tomorrow.

[slider2828]

Based on my own analysis and using differen oil, I like castrol GTX synth blend with the superior oil burnoff protection. It seemed to work best with minimal blacking of the oil. I used mobil 1 and that blows, turns black at about 2k miles. Unbelieveable, so not worth it. Just going with cheap cheapo normal oil that my mechanic gets a huge barrel of and I just change about 2k miles. 8 Bux an oil change with a filter, why not.

[steve shadows]

Mobil 1 = Crap.



how the fuck did you come to that?

did you put the wizard hat and robe on? seriously

mobil 1 is not "crap" it might be a little more expensive that nascar walmart special on snythetic.

i guess ill wait for the pdf.

[C0NAN]

Based on my own analysis and using differen oil, I like castrol GTX synth blend with the superior oil burnoff protection. It seemed to work best with minimal blacking of the oil. I used mobil 1 and that blows, turns black at about 2k miles. Unbelieveable, so not worth it. Just going with cheap cheapo normal oil that my mechanic gets a huge barrel of and I just change about 2k miles. 8 Bux an oil change with a filter, why not.

Mobil 1 turns dark easily because it cleans the inside of your engine. Your "clean" castrol GTX isn't doing anything to keep the insides of your engine clean. I use Motul 300V 5W-40.

[koukimonster139]

oil is a magical substance made by wizards deep under the earth' crust.

some say they mix together the blood of a thousand babies just to make one quart :0 :0 :0

[mct3351]

Just some interesting reading with various oils being dyno tested. I know its not the end all test but never the less check it out.
Fixed link
http://my.prostreetonline.com/t2540.htm

[ManoNegra]

Synthetic oil keeps it's properties better under stress and resists breakdown better than organic. Both use detergents to clean your shit and those break down at the same rate in either type so you still need to change your oil on a regular basis. For oil cooled turbos synthetic is the way to go.
I've had good experience with Royal Purple, Mobil 1 (hear you must use their filter aswell to get the full benefit (?)) and Valvoline Synthetic. Would like to try Redline but it's $$$$$$.

[steve shadows]

:jerkit: well personally i use crappy ole 10w30.

works great for 400-500hp sr applications in my life.


If i rebuild another block I will probably stock up on Nissan Oem Oil.

[Slidin240Wayz]

I currently use Royal Purple 10w-30. I would like to try the redline oil.

I drive my car to and from events and that is pretty much it.

The weather during the season is from 60 to 95 degrees.

What grade do you suggest, and why?


Carlos

[420sx]

royal purple has graphyte added to it. just some food for thought.

redline or torco. otherwise mobil1 if ur cheap

[yusuke1923]

If you have Turbo... go with synthetic~!

[airsoft]

I used Mobil 1 20-50

and in my turbo civic I use castrol (whatever the synthetic brand is) 10-30.

The turbo breaks down oil fast.

Go synthetic.

I personally like Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 oil filter or Bosch.

I would suggest a good oil filter to go with your good oil.

[PRADOgy]

synthetic always!...

i used several major brand oils.. all synthetics.. burned through all with my TII rotary engine.. that engine produces more heat than a v8 .. valvoline 10w30 full syn was the best weight.. shit held its ground and didnt burn up or thin out all quick, castrol, the following weak i felt like my car needed another oil change, mobil 1 was awsome just didnt feel as smooth as valvoline..

k&n or mobil oil filters are designed for the syn oils..

dont get me started about penzoil.. unless u feel like scraping wax from the inside of ur engine next time u rebuilt it .. dont use it.. shit will kill ur turbo's too

[bigOdom1]

in the winter i run mobile 1 fully syn. 10w30
in the summer i run mobile 1 fully syn. 15w50 (little thicker for those hot summer days)
and i always use a oem nissan filter

[alexkosheck]

I'm running Mobil 1 10w30
It is good.
I am looking forward to reading that pdf though, I might switch depending on results.

[steve shadows]

I'm running Mobil 1 10w30
It is good.
I am looking forward to reading that pdf though, I might switch depending on results.

It's probably a PDF issued by a competing oil company, unless it's issued by SAE

[adrians_s13]

ugh... these oil threads are depressing, they always make me unsure of myself... like if I'm putting in the right shit or not =/

[steve shadows]

in SR land the oil pickup is the most important, and maybe a greddy oil pan, or at least the late model oil pick up mod.

Most oils will work just fine for 1500 miles no matter what they are.

Mobil 1 is a good quality oil for the price and ease of availability in the synth camp.

Nissan oem Organic is my choice if I can go that route especially with container motors.

I guess if your daily driving an SR it's more of a concern than a KA or an SR.

In KA NA land i just pour whatevr cheap surup i can find and beat the shit out of it. works great.

[spinitsidewayz]

I used Mobil 1 20-50

and in my turbo civic I use castrol (whatever the synthetic brand is) 10-30.

The turbo breaks down oil fast.

Go synthetic.

I personally like Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 oil filter or Bosch.

I would suggest a good oil filter to go with your good oil.

Castrol syntec isn't real synthetic, along with Mobil 1 and a few others. They are Group III. Damn all the Conspiracies!

www.bobistheoilguy.com (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com)

I use German Castrol cause everyone else says its good and its not so pricey, along with Pureone Filters.:fawk:

Actually, I just switched to Royal Purple to see how it would go. Car does seem alot peppier, also adding to the fact that German Castrol is a thicker 30 weight and Royal Purple is thinner, but now i can hear my valvetrain! Oh no's!

I guess the trick is finding the oil that gives you the edge but doesnt shorten engine life and doesnt break the bank. $$$

Then again, my Engine Repair class instructor has a 96 Nissan truck that he runs Valvoline dino oil in. Changed oil every 3k, and he's over 360k with no problems.

Maybe oil is just oil?

The way alot of us drive our cars, they won't last that long anyways...

[steve shadows]

i think oil just is oil overall when everything is put into context.

thanks for the link and info though, very interesting

[C. Senor]

thank god i have an N/A. valvo 20-50 for me..yay...but on a boosted car you always want to run full syn oil.

[steve shadows]

me..yay...but on a boosted car you always want to run full syn oil.

i dont I never have problems. Nissan didnt until the s15 either iirc.

The condition of the oil system (ie oil pump, oil pickup, oil passages, oil squirters, oil pressure, oil system) and oil temp is more important. Using synthetic to band-aid your other issues with oil temp etc is not the way to go. Niether is using thicker wieght to compensate. thats the worst policy. I think most horror stories that are blamed on certain types of OIL have alot more to improper wieght of oil or too thick (in the case of most nissan aluminum engines) and failures or failing parts of the oil pressure system.

Oil passages on engines are designed to work better with properly assesed viscosity and thickness to allow for proper oil circulation and pressure.

I will be using full synth with the new motor, but that motors got new bearings and everything has been compeltely refreshed in the way of rotating assembly and friction locations.

[MomentumGT]

Amsoil Series 2000 20w-50 works great, just a little on the pricey side.

-Jon

[steve shadows]

btw here is apretty seemingly un-biased unmarketed link

http://www.jwmercantile.com/infooil.html

[lonelydrifter]

That article is pretty good. Steve what weight will you be running because I too have a fresh build going on. Also do you guys change oils between summer and winter?

[johngriff]

Ehh that link isn't really that great. Almost none of the numbers are in touch with real world operating temperatures, seeing as how you would be done with the headgasket after 300 degrees (most of the flashpoints are over 400) and 90% of the people looking to race any thing wont be firing their engine up on race day in -40F Temps.

This is the pdf I read through which really kicked off my anti Mobile 1 rant

Http://www.rpsportengineering.com/OilTests.pdf

It is a bearing pressure tests with pretty surprising results.

As far as getting oil tested I have an opinion Blackstone. In practically EVERY test I have read from them, they have nothing but good things to say about the oil tested, this is in their "notes" portion. This seems to be the "stroke off session" to whomever is getting their oil tested, probably so they will be a repeat customer, but their numbers, if you know how to read them are quite telling. (the only tests i have read where they had ANYTHING negative to say, was when coolant was present in the oil, they even stroked off some guy who did 18k on a AMSOIL run).

But, as far as results I have seen consistently in regards to Blackstone testing of mobile 1, High Iron Content. Every test, surprisingly high Iron Content.

The only place inside an internal combustion engine you have iron on metal contact is the sleeve/rings. This is mobil 1's weak point it seems, and when speaking of a rich turbo car, where blow by is an issue, mobil 1 seems to not be doing the job. Any oil will break down quickly if you have lots of deposits in it (especially raw gasoline) and these figures lend themselves to a higher chance of mobil 1 becoming polluted with combustion chamber deposits (raw fuel/exhaust/blow by).

But, thats just my opinion, everyone will stand behind the product they bought until they die, because they don't want to feel as they made a poor purchase.

[EDacIouSX]

i don't kno wabout sr20s but oil is important. I know some engines (rotaries) run best with non-synthetic. It could be his engine ran shitty cause it wasnt tuned right or something was up w/ the computer. I know some computers need to kind of retune itself when you hook it back up. not sure though im no expert here, someone should clarify for me if they haven't already.

[jilo]

i myself use kendall synthetic. its what i used in 350z's, 300z's and whatnot while working at nissan. if the oil company (kendall) sponsors their (nissan) race cars and nissan uses it as factory equipment, i figure its good enough for what im doing.

EDIT: after reading a link above, im going with valvoline. that bearing test pdf is awesome thanks for posting it.

[slider2828]

Yah that was a good two articles nonetheless. But I was more interested in also seeing Castrol and how well it would fair. Because the New Castrol with Superior Burnoff Protection doesn't have the energy saving seal on it, therefore it would have more additives to protect the engin against wear. I think over all non-energy saving oils would preserve and lubricate better in both the bearing test and also the first article.

Royal Purple sure rocks though, but it rocks my socks at like $50+ bux for a 4 quart bottle or something....

[steve shadows]

how fucking old is that pdf? like 10 years?

making a poor purchase is one thing but even that bearing test is extremely subjective.

Magazines are not immune from payoffs, typically only scientific research societies, non-profit consumer report groups are.

There is a SHIT LOAD of false information out there and MYTHS and scare tactics about oil and gasoline. A little research into some other more

sterile information should yeild.

Maybe if you can find me a report state side that shows the current Mobil 1 oil being tested, I know they have made several changes in the last 10 years in their products, so have pretty much everyone else, especially with the rising cost of oil.

like i said before, nissan oem. If thats snake oil, i give up.

with all of this stuff in mind (and my inability to track down the old oil thread we had on here where people in here were arguing completely contradictory advice only two months ago), you get what you pay for.

[nrg]

Mobil1 is OEM oil for honda, toyota, nissan, bmw, etc.
just because the oil is dark doesn't mean it's bad. I've always changed my oil around 5k (mobil1 with bosch filter) and the oil is brown. I'm pretty sure i can pull another 3k out of it. (i daily drive my s14 100 miles a day btw)

there's no reason to switch to a more expansive/better oil. UNLESS you have some crazy built motor that you changed the oil passages on. (oil circulation design, engine temp, misc)

there's a reason why f1/high end cars run much better oil. Because their motor is designed for it.

It's like people putting 92 octane in their bone stock ka24, it wont do crap because the motor isn't designed for it.

All my other cars, i run mobil clean 5000 and there's still much life in the oil after 5k oil change.

Newer cars have less moving parts than older motors. Their design is much more modern; this is why some newer cars can do 15k oil changes on mobil1.

I have a few good links (unbiased) about oil type, filter usage and who to stay away from. i'll post it when i get home.

If you blame the oil for engine slug, then you should do your homework. 99.9% of engine slug is caused from bad oil circulation.

edit: slider2828 royal purple is around 7.49 a quart at kargen/napa :P

[johngriff]

Reading the UOA's of users here : http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB3
is probably a great start.

You can see high iron deposits in Mobil 1 in every UOA. Iron = Wearing Oil Pump/Sleeves/Cams.

[nrg]

the wearing is too tiny to even make a difference. i drive my car everyday and it's wearing down :)

IIRC, those people on that forum likes m1 lol.

best thing to do is try many different types of oil and filter. get it tested and see how your motor likes them.

[kandyflip445]

There are cars that say the can do 15k oil changes. But they usually don't last too long like that. The BMW's that say that they can be changed at 15k usually get changed at around 7k. If you go the full 15k you NEED to change the oil filter, to keep the oil filtered well and flowing properly. Without doing that, it's just plain stupid. The extended drain intervals and better engines overall are because of better factory tolerances and better material.

I like my Redline because it makes my car quieter and when I open the valve cover the engine is CLEAN. With Mobil 1 the car is WAY more noisy and it doesn't seem to keep the engine that clean compared to Redline. I can run the Redline for about 7-10k and still come out good. The Mobil 1 I have only run at 3k intervals and the engine wasn't as clean as with the Redline.

Valvoline is crap. It's noisy and my car feels like crap with it.

Quaker State is like Valvoline.

Haven't tried GC yet but I hear it's good. The special synthetic they use in my friends M3 seems to be really nice. But it might just be the car. =P

All of these are just my opinions and just what I feel like they have done for me in my car. No lab tests or pulling the bottom end apart every time. Just the way it feels.

[ms!3]

I hate these oil threads.

Mobil 1, Done.


Crappy car burning oil? Run thicker organic oil.

Drive your car hard and want it to last? run synthetic

yea, i burn oil. used to run royal purpal 10w30. motor has been slowly dying on me with my low comp, so ive just been adding quarts and shit every once in a while. advanced auto parts special. mabey suggested a thicker oil for me? plan on running this motor till it falls flat on its face.:ughd:

[johngriff]

go to 10-40 next, I probably wouldnt want to be getting into the higher cold weights, it will just get worse on startup.

[DJ_Sunrise]

i run royal purple 10w30 in my s14. ran lucas synthetic 10w30 as well. i noticed with royal purple my turbo spooled faster, but the lucas felt like it freed up more power. ive been running the purple stuff for 1.5 yrs now and decided to use the lucas for a change. good stuff as well. oh yea.. i also use the pureone purolator oil filter. 98% multipass efficiency, they best i have seen so far. I ran just about every synthetic 10w30 in my s13 besides the redline oil. mobil 1, castrol, pennzoil were a bit too noisy. i fell in love with the royal purple in that car.. noticable power difference compared to everything else. +1 for Royal Purple. Next = Redline.
-Bart

[bardabe]

IM switching to Royal Purple, fuck the rest.

[slider2828]

Yah shit seriously... But I wonder how well it will hold up.... I have a built motor right now with 4k, so no full synths till about 7k or so...

[jilo]

/\ you definatley dont have to wait that long to change to synthetic.....

[steve shadows]

go to 10-40 next, I probably wouldnt want to be getting into the higher cold weights, it will just get worse on startup.

it's not just that, its the fact that substantially thicker wieghts can cause damage to the turbo and bearings over time depending on bearing clearences. Thicker oil does not drain as fast and can end up sitting on the friction surfuace sizzling until it charchoalizes, over time all this crap getting scrapped off on start up can wear out turbos or even bearings, if your oil system was...say designed for 5w20 or 5w30 and you run sae 60.

[attracted]

i use motul 300v 15-50 in my race car sr.....all i can say is that it makes a diffrence....probably the only thing keeping my engine from blowing

[ms!3]

go to 10-40 next, I probably wouldnt want to be getting into the higher cold weights, it will just get worse on startup.

i went adhead and changed it today.

used to have a compression of 140 with 10w30. switched to 10w40 and it reads 149 now. haha. this motor sucks balls.

[420sx]

royal purple.....
i just know that royal purple uses graphite and that a NO NO over long period of time. i used it for 2 years and i switched to redline.

right now i got mobil 1 just to try and its... meh... ok.

[johngriff]

Is that cold compression? Do a before/after on cold hot. I am interested!

[ixfxi]

there are a few things to consider, some thought - some facts. lets look at the facts.

your motor, your car - how much is it worth? probably, not TOO much. i mean, not carrera GT level.. or even GTII. Your motor probably costs a few grand.

oil is insurance. if you're tracking your car and its solely a track car, go for it. especially if you have money invested into it. BIG money. not a few grand.

if your car is daily driven, or even subjected to the common street use. who cares? you'll do more wear by lets say, taking off quick in the morning and not properly warming up. i am sure driving hard without easing the car into warming up will do a lot more damage. OR, whats worse.. not changing your oil. fucktards think you can run your oil longer because its synthetic.

sure.. thats bullshit. change your oil more often, be happy that you've got clean oil - period.

thats the bottom motherfucking line, regardless of all these bullshit reviews and tests. change your gaddamn oil.

as for transmission, thats THE only place ive seen a difference.. which is why i use redline for transmission, and only transmission. i makes going into 1st a lot easier.

[ms!3]

Is that cold compression? Do a before/after on cold hot. I am interested!

it was a cold compression. ill do a hot compression here in the next few days.

[jdmae86]

i use to run mobil 20w-50(had it laying around the shop) in my ae86... popped two engines in 15,000 miles... we switched suppliers b/c it was cheaper & started using Castrol. Current motor has lasted 35,000 miles and has seen loads of abuse.

I dont care about graphs, tests, or any other bullshit. Use whatever works for you and is in your budget. So I run Castrol GTX 20w-50 in my AE86 & my SR'd S13.

[johngriff]

Yeah, PHUCK SCIENCE!

20w-50 sounds a little high. I used to be big on super heavy weights, but lately i've been going quality @ a thinner weight. ixfxi is right, change it every 3k and that will probably ensure the most minimal issues.

[BigVinnie]

What you want to look for is the strength in the oil polymers.
I usually am always using a 10w-40. It starts well on cold starts and performs better to higher temperatures than the 10w-30 can.
Now from a personal opinion I stick with a conventional oil such as castrol GTX or Quaker State. The reason behind this is because synthetic is refined with added conditioners although the conditioners and treated agents help prolong the life of synthetic I find it to break down gaskets sooner than conventional oil would.

Multi-weight oils (such as 10W-30) are a new invention made possible by adding polymers to oil. The polymers allow the oil to have different weights at different temperatures. The first number indicates the viscosity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature. This page from the Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ offers the following very interesting description of how the polymers work:

At cold temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question164.htm

Now on my truck I change my oil every 5000miles with conventional oil. Oil itself last up to 5000miles in normal driving conditions. It's the oil filter that starts to degrade at about 3000miles.
As far as my 240 goes I change the oil every 3000miles because I drive it hard and my engine temperatures are well above what they would be stock.