why not a swapped car?

[Jason240sx]

i've seen a lot of swapped s14 are not so hot as stock ones eventhough the price offered is way below what they put into it in terms of parts.

just wnat to get your opinion if down the road you want a turbo or a sr20 , why not a swapped car in the first place to save you money down the road?

:ughug:

[krazyfil]

dude learn how to speak english and writ in complete sentences... i couldnt understand whut the hell u were talking about

[johngriff]

Ok. You are financially illiterate, and that is ok, alot of people are.

Is, a car, an ASSET? Unless you use it for work or to make you money, NO.

Im guessing you are not going to be running a contractors service out of your swapped s14?

So, justify the expense. This is going to be a pure expense, for your enjoyment, of which, in life, you can have. So justify your expenses to yourself, and do what you want.


In regards to pinching penny's when trying to build a custom car. Typically, the less you want to spend, the more work by hand you have to do. If you buy an "allready swapped car" as you put it, it may have major internal issues you are not aware of at the time of the sale, of which will cost you more money. So discussion on, "will it save me money down the road" is moot.

Simply accept, that this will be a money pit, and as long as it makes you happy, then it is justified.

[yaba94070]

I have a 1997 240 with a SR20det....
depending wear you live is if you should swap your car or not...
In california swaping your motor is a bithc because the cops will flag your ass. I have experemented with the KA and SR20 and the KA can hold more boost the SR20 is only a 2.0L and the KA is a 2.4 but make sure that the KA is the dual over head cam...
If you go with the KA best bet is just get the greedy turbo kit it comes with every thing you need the only thing else you will have to buy is the intercooler and that doesn't really matter where you get it from.
My Sr20 is stock internals and i was pushing 380whp and ran a 11.6 in the 1/4 mile with a drift setup but i bent the rod when i tried pushing 18psi so build your internals if you gonna go for power the Ka should push 300 comfortably and still be very reliable

[johngriff]

pics, or it didnt happen.

[GSXRJJordan]

John - sound financial advice on zilvia? Is that allowed?? :)

to the OP: The reason "already swapped" S14s aren't worth their price in parts is because stock S14s are still considered good cars (unlike most S13s, which have so many miles they're ready for a new motor anyway). If you buy an "already swapped" car, there's a much smaller possibility that the rest of the car is sound; even though it seems like you're getting more, the increased risk is not worth it to everyone.

Since this is probably going to be a car that you'll continue to sink money into, buying an already SR'd car can save you some money; if you're not willing to pay a premium for the peace of mind doing everything from scratch brings, find one that's already beat but has an SR, and start from there.

[g6civcx]

Is, a car, an ASSET? Unless you use it for work or to make you money, NO.


With all due respect, please employ proper financial terminology as to not confuse others.

An asset is something that is capable of being converted into cash. A car can be sold for cash, albeit with a huge depreciation.

I think you're thinking that assets have to be capable of providing future economic benefits, and while that's true, if you can sell something for $1 even though you bought it for $100,000, the item is still considered an asset.

A vehicle would be classified under equipment assets and is expected to depreciate with use and age. A collector car would be classified under investment assets and is expected to appreciate with age.

Both types of cars, however, are still considered assets. :fart:

Likewise, a car is considered an investment as well. It's an investment because you invested resources into the car, and expect some sort of benefits from it (transportation, personal enjoyment, etc.). Some cars are better investments than others, but they are all considered investments.

If you don't expect any benefit from the thing at all, it's considered a liability. Although it seems that Nissans are liabilities :D, they're still investments because you expect to get some benefits from them. Otherwise, they should be scrapped.

I hate citing wiki but it has useful links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset

[projectRDM]

To best explain it though, a swapped car is 99% of the time hacked somewhere. There's probably no A/C, the wiring is trashed, there's gauges screwed to the dash with wood screws, the tires are flat spotted and chunked to hell, and the interior is some weird aqua color from the days of kids painting random shit to look cool. Most times you're buying someone else's headache, so you're already obligated to fixing things that shouldn't need fixing in the first place. Plus you can guarantee it's seen a lot of abuse and though may look fine has a lot of unforeseen issues in the future.
Look at it like you're buying a woman, do you want to pay top dollar for a super model who's lived in a vacuum her whole life, or cut corners and buy the whore on the street who's so ragged you can hide furniture in her crotch? Buying a 'virgin' car gives you the chance to do everything you want to do in your own capacity and to not spend needless money getting it back to a good platform to build on so you can. Remember this, no one is going to do as good of a job on your own car as you are.

[BLITZZZ]

I have a 1997 240 with a SR20det....
I have experemented with the KA and SR20 and the KA can hold more boost the SR20 is only a 2.0L and the KA is a 2.4 but make sure that the KA is the dual over head cam...




Oh really! So I run my sr20det daily at 20psi, I guess because a KA has 2.4liters it can run More, you know, cuz its a 2.4 liter, also it has dual cams, so it can run more boost too, because boost is dependent on displacement and not compression right?

Right now i'm regretting swapping out my ka24de for an sr20det :(

[johngriff]

G6, i have a skewed view of gaap. I dont want to really get into it on a forum. I guess I should have termed depreciating asset. Good catch ;)

And yes tax wise, you can flex and use a vehicle like that, but it is not the reality of the situation. I could have used depreciating asset, or liability, but now i think I personally look at my nissans as an Expense. The S13=Fun, so now its all about how much fun i want to have.

[koukimonster139]

lol johngriff loves commas

[DreamDesignParts]

SR20 swap is way better then going ka-t. I did a ka-t set up before and the difference in power is only by a scrach. Also if you plan on going ka-t you will blow something sometime in the future (2-3 months give or take) then will have to rebuild the motor, then 2-3 months later something else will blow, and the process continues...SR20's are turbo'ed engines are are made to take high boost. ka's came into cars as n/a for a reason, they were never meant to be turbo'ed. plus SR's have alot more potential.

[projectRDM]

SR20 swap is way better then going ka-t. I did a ka-t set up before and the difference in power is only by a scrach. Also if you plan on going ka-t you will blow something sometime in the future (2-3 months give or take) then will have to rebuild the motor, then 2-3 months later something else will blow, and the process continues...SR20's are turbo'ed engines are are made to take high boost. ka's came into cars as n/a for a reason, they were never meant to be turbo'ed. plus SR's have alot more potential.

That is the shittiest answer yet.

First off, the OP is not asking for a comparison between KA and SR, he's asking about a car that's already 'swapped', or more likely heavily modded.
Secondly, KAs are completely fine with 14psi stuffed in them daily as long as it's tuned properly, same with an SR. You can blow either motor at only 7psi if you abuse or mistune it. Saying that it's a solid guarantee you will blow something on a KA only shows you didn't take appropriate steps in tuning on your own car, that doesn't mean anyone else will. I've seen KAs last five years turbo'd and SRs last minutes. Don't make opinions about something based on your own poor judgement.

[g6civcx]

G6, i have a skewed view of gaap. I dont want to really get into it on a forum. I guess I should have termed depreciating asset. Good catch ;)

And yes tax wise, you can flex and use a vehicle like that, but it is not the reality of the situation. I could have used depreciating asset, or liability, but now i think I personally look at my nissans as an Expense. The S13=Fun, so now its all about how much fun i want to have.

All S13s are strictly liabilities. Everybody knows that.

You put a lot of money into it with no real expectation of any benefits.

Yes, they're strictly liabilities :2f2f:

[klohiq]

I have experemented with the KA and SR20 and the KA can hold more boost the SR20 is only a 2.0L and the KA is a 2.4 but make sure that the KA is the dual over head cam...
If you go with the KA best bet is just get the greedy turbo kit it comes with every thing you need the only thing else you will have to buy is the intercooler and that doesn't really matter where you get it from.

The KA actually seems to be able to handle less boost, though it can make more power at the same boost levels with the same turbo setup due to the larger displacement. If that's what you meant then I agree, otherwise you are completlely wrong. There are quite a few SRs that make over 300whp easily while the KA seems to be nearing the limits of it's internals at around that level. Obviously every engine is different, but that's just from what I've seen on various forums. Each engine is good and comparing them won't get you anywhere, some people want a high redline while others want low rpm torque. You won't change either persons opinion by telling them their engine choice is crap while yours is far superior...

What's so bad about the SOHC ka other than it's older and there's less aftermarket? I've seen quite a few turboed zenki s13s and it seems to be just as capable as the de. Maybe if you are talking peak potential, but if you really care about that why aren't you swapping a vg30dett or rb26dett into it since they obviously would offer more horsepower, more easily.

The greddy kit sucks...with how much it costs you could probably afford an engine rebuild and all the stuff to have a nice t25 or t28 setup so you would have upwards of 220-240whp rather than 175-180whp. I don't know why people buy it or reccomend it. Sure it gives you all the stuff you need, but you should already know what you need if you are going to install the turbo...

[undercoverdjay]

HP to Dollar, Go with a KA-T. I have owned both and regret buying the SR after throwing the T25 (way too small aspect ratio) on the KA with the SR's 370cc's and I cant count how many swapped SR's I smoked on my $700 setup. 500whp in an SR... you're looking at a GT35R at the least and built internals and hours of tuning. Throw a decent T3 flanged compressor on a KA, throw new pistons with good strong ring lands, plumb it and run it. KA's are cheese to make power out of. No replacement for displacement kiddies :)

Buy any S chassis with a KA (preferably an OBD1 S13 pre 1995) go to KA-T.org and start reading. A few months and say, 2,500 later (the price of your soda bottle displaced SR) and you'll have a minimum of 425lbs torque. So no, dont buy a swapped car, buy a pre boosted KA and just pull their setup apart and replace any junk parts. It'll save you money in the long run and get you ahead of your fanboy swapped cars in no time.

[unwed_transient]

all financial and powerplant debates aside,

the reason i'll never buy a swapped car is because personally, i want everything done by me. when something breaks or blows, i want it to be because of my installation or tuning errors.

i feel that i get more out of a car if it started as bone stock.

i also feel i learn more if i do it that way.

[steve shadows]

HP to Dollar, Go with a KA-T. I have owned both and regret buying the SR after throwing the T25 (way too small aspect ratio) on the KA with the SR's 370cc's and I cant count how many swapped SR's I smoked on my $700 setup. 500whp in an SR... you're looking at a GT35R at the least and built internals and hours of tuning. Throw a decent T3 flanged compressor on a KA, throw new pistons with good strong ring lands, plumb it and run it. KA's are cheese to make power out of. No replacement for displacement kiddies :)

Buy any S chassis with a KA (preferably an OBD1 S13 pre 1995) go to KA-T.org and start reading. A few months and say, 2,500 later (the price of your soda bottle displaced SR) and you'll have a minimum of 425lbs torque. So no, dont buy a swapped car, buy a pre boosted KA and just pull their setup apart and replace any junk parts. It'll save you money in the long run and get you ahead of your fanboy swapped cars in no time.

fanboy swapped cars? lol

Well id love to race some ka-t setups with equal money into them from my area...

GT35R? not really

the hybridynamics top mount kit for the sr is a steal, get a greddy oil pan bc retainers and springs, hks 264 step 2 cams, and you dont need gt turbo.

at 50trim to4e/ t3 hyrbid will crap on most of the gt spec turbos, I know this personally (especially with a custom turbine wheel application) and can be had for a fraction of the price.

Sure you could spend all the same money in the direction of a KA motor, with possibly more miles and if you spend the money you could have spent on a motor set , building the internals of the ka-t setup it might make sense. But all a good sr bottom ends needs to perform is upgraded late model oil pickup (like 45 bucks) and a greddy oil pan (like 275-290 bucks). And thats just for insurance.

The KA24DE using a dual timing chain design which I detest with a passion and Im sure john would agree also.

Its all up to you but ill keep beliveing in NA KA power and keep pumping out more and more insane hp levels on my T67 SR projects...:bow:

ps. the mythology is that equal money into a ka = more power, Ive never foudn this to be true, if you really add up cost and compare it to reliability i doubt the KA-T projects putting out 400whp last as long as equal money spent on a 300 hp sr setup. and what are you referring to? shitting on cars in drag races on the hwy???

HONESTLY

I would trust some sort of single cam setup for 400whp turbo setup rather tan a dual cam.

with a single cam you dont get the same cfm rate out of the head but you do get.

-even cheaper blocks availabiltiy
-mechanical valve train that you can adjust and with cams and valve springs rev higher
-single timing chain design
-you get to be different and raspy haha

I understand the qualms now, however the sr20det is one of the most expensive options in the book thanks to the hype
and the drifting/jdm craze.

KA-T FT(ok) and SR FT(ok) also

[ManoNegra]

wow, this thread is all over the place. The reason I would stay away from a modded S-chassis is simply that most of them being sold are by little kids that watched too much Initial D or Option Videos, bought one and got in over their heads. Like Russ and a few mentioned, most modded s-chassis being sold are piles of crap.

[undercoverdjay]

I'm referring to shitting on SR's at local watkins glen track events. Not highway runs. Sorry to offend you, but did you read the part of the post when I said I OWN BOTH
I know the power potential of the SR, yeah, I've built them and am still building mine up. I'm balls deep in SR parts or else I'd sell it off and start with a KA-T. My KA-T was built for peanuts, as a joke, over a few cases of beer. And then blew the doors off my friends FD3S at a strip in canada. For your average ricer (now a days most S chassis drivers are all fanboy ricers) a KA-T is sufficient. If an S13 wasn't my first car 6 years ago, I wouldn't have as much love for them now because of their media soaked popularity. I pull my S13 out only on weekends.

So from one seasoned enthusiast to another (I assume you are somewhat knowledgeable) everyone has a preference. I've compared the power potential between them both vs cost and a KA-T is a much more wise investment than paying 2,000+ (more if you're retarded and can't swap your own motor) for a 50hp increase. $2,000 into a motor you already have, will net you WORLDS above an SR. Those on a budget and don't want to buy a hack job....sell off your "all motor KA" bullshit, boost the nuts of the iron workhorse and learn as you go.

SR owners are only pissed because they invested the money, hell I am. But I'm man enough to admit mistakes and the SR swap was. If it wasn't my daily, maybe, SR's are fun to trouble shoot and build. But only if you have lots of time and even more money. I'm not going to turn this into an SR vs KA debate, its argued to death and myself am sick of it. I didn't want to turn this thread into a debate, its my advice from a long term S chassis owner. I've owned 4 S13's and swapped motors between them all SOHC-DOHC, auto-manual swaps, etc etc. So I know what works.

If I was to do it all over tomorrow (providing I HAD to go with an S chassis), with 2,500 bucks in my pocket, I'd buy the most stock unmolested 240SX I could find and get to work on that KA.

[mRclARK1]

Originally posted by: ManoNegra
wow, this thread is all over the place. The reason I would stay away from a modded S-chassis is simply that most of them being sold are by little kids that watched too much Initial D or Option Videos, bought one and got in over their heads. Like Russ and a few mentioned, most modded s-chassis being sold are piles of crap.

:werd:

It always comes down to; if you're honest when selling a modded car, you should never expect to get nearly what you put into it.

[g6civcx]

SR owners are only pissed because they invested the money, hell I am... If I was to do it all over tomorrow (providing I HAD to go with an S chassis), with 2,500 bucks in my pocket, I'd buy the most stock unmolested 240SX I could find and get to work on that KA.

I hate to admit it, but I am in the same boat. I've owned both KA and SR.

The KA is much easier to source parts for, and I hate having to fix broken stuff on an abused second-hand SR.

I've decided not to put any more money into the SR. When it blows, I'm going with either an NA KA or LSx.

[OBEEWON]

Protect your neck, diversify your stock.

[unwed_transient]

you mean bonds.....

[steve shadows]

wow, this thread is all over the place. The reason I would stay away from a modded S-chassis is simply that most of them being sold are by little kids that watched too much Initial D or Option Videos, bought one and got in over their heads. Like Russ and a few mentioned, most modded s-chassis being sold are piles of crap.

strip chasis completely, acid dip and start from there haha

[mRclARK1]

SR owners are only pissed because they invested the money, hell I am. But I'm man enough to admit mistakes and the SR swap was. If it wasn't my daily, maybe, SR's are fun to trouble shoot and build. But only if you have lots of time and even more money. I'm not going to turn this into an SR vs KA debate, its argued to death and myself am sick of it. I didn't want to turn this thread into a debate, its my advice from a long term S chassis owner. I've owned 4 S13's and swapped motors between them all SOHC-DOHC, auto-manual swaps, etc etc. So I know what works.

If I was to do it all over tomorrow (providing I HAD to go with an S chassis), with 2,500 bucks in my pocket, I'd buy the most stock unmolested 240SX I could find and get to work on that KA.

I think a lot depends also on what you are starting from with the car as well as what you want and can afford, as to whether or not it makes sense to go with an SR or a KA.

For me it was a case of I had a decent running KA... but with very high mileage, and was in a position to get my hands on a very good shape SR for a great price; WAY less than what they go for now. I was leaning towards the SR anyway when my KA took a dump... so I went with that instead of doing a rebuild and turboing the KA, because it got me what I wanted, and made the most sense financially. KA vs. SR has been debated to death... they both have there strong points IMHO. To each there own.

[klohiq]

Originally posted by: ManoNegra


:werd:

It always comes down to; if you're honest when selling a modded car, you should never expect to get nearly what you put into it.

:werd:

I don't understand the people who add up all their mods and say "well this is what KBB/NADA/edmunds says the car is worth and I spent $3500 on an SR20 swap and $1000 on coilovers and I'm asking 12500 for my 95 zenki with a salvage title"

[drift] sluts are worth less than virgins