S14 swap considerations - KA, RB, LS2

[Scarceas]

I read a lot of posts that say do the research and use the search button, etc. I have tried to do a lot of research, and I want to see if my general impressions are correct.

These are engine choices I am considering for my S14:

KA - rebuild & turbo
My estimates on this are around $9,000 to completely rebuild the engine and add a turbokit (including FMIC), labor/parts included, all installed by a shop. Should be able to get close to 300rwhp and run 12-15 psi boost reliably, and still have a pretty flat torque band to work with. Going much beyond this will require head work and changing the character of the engine to be "rev happy", for which an SR might be better suited.

RB - new rods/pistons/rings, new turbo, custom FMIC, GReddy intake, fuel computer, boost controller
There seems to be some concern about weight distribution, but while the RB is heavier it seems like most of the RB swap's additional weight is in the transmission, so it doesn't affect the distribution so much.
A swap of this nature requires custom mounts, transmission swap, possible differential upgrade, custom drive shaft, and wiring.

RB25 - Easier swap (especially with a commercial mount kit) compared to RB26, more economical. Estimate $11,000 to have swap done by a shop. Should be able to get 350+ rwhp on 12-15psi boost reliably, and have more low-end torque than a KA.

RB26 - Probably more aftermarket support, but transmission is a problem (modify 4WD tranny? Find and swap RB25 tranny?). Also, two turbos require more complex intercooler piping, or conversion to single turbo requires custom manifold. Oil pan issues? Haven't done much pricing on it as I don't think the transmission and turbo costs are going to be worth it, but I would guess $13,000 swapped in about 350rwhp trim. There is a whole world of tuning options that could change that power and pricing, though, so if going for an all-Nissan dyno monster, this is probably the motor to go for.

Chevy LS1, LS2, LS6, LS7 - crate or slightly used
This is the lightest of the group, and gets possibly the best gas mileage (thanks to displacement on demand). I have very mixed feelings about doing this. Seems like a reliable path to gobs of power, but mixing different manufacturer's, especially import/domestic, seems to make the car get less respect from a lot of other enthusiasts. I fear it will be looked at by a lot of Nissan enthusiasts as a bastardization, and it will probably be looked down on by domestic enthusiasts because of its import roots.
A swap of this nature requires custom mounts, transmission swap, possible differential upgrade, custom drive shaft, and wiring.
Estimate $12,000 swapped for an LS1, 300+ rwhp, great low end response
Estimate $14,000 swapped for an LS2, modded LS1 or LS6, 400rwhp, great low end response

Are my pricing estimates reasonable? Too high?

What about my performance and power band expectations, do they seem reasonable?

[initial_drifter]

if you've got the money do whatever you want

[eastcoastS14]

^^ no SR?? :-/ your prices seem about right purchasing everything from a shop/online store and having everything installed by a shop KA rebuild seems high tho AMS rebuild kit is only $1,700 turbo kit around $3000. but honestly if you look around on this sight at the for sale posts or do the work your self you can cut those prices down by a lot...buy used parts from ppl get a few friends and swap that ish

[orion::S14]

KA - rebuild & turbo
My estimates on this are around $9,000 to completely rebuild the engine and add a turbokit (including FMIC), labor/parts included, all installed by a shop. Should be able to get close to 300rwhp and run 12-15 psi boost reliably, and still have a pretty flat torque band to work with. Going much beyond this will require head work and changing the character of the engine to be "rev happy", for which an SR might be better suited.

The KA head is NOT the limiting factor for RPM...in fact, it's better suited to rv high than the SR head (cam-on-bucket versus rocker arms).

The limiting factor is the bottom end (long stroke).

Even built, you won't want to spend significant time above ~7000rpm (ridiculous piston speeds).

Just to clarify.

...

As to what YOU should pick...what are you doing with the car???

- Brian

[mRclARK1]

I personally would go with the RB (25 or 26)... but it's your car. Like the above post says; do what you want for your car and don't care about what other people think you should do. Just have fun, learn, and enjoy your car :bigok:

[dopeyx27]

what about a 2jz? a ton of aftermarket support and most mechanics have seen that engine before. lol

[g6civcx]

mixing different manufacturer's, especially import/domestic, seems to make the car get less respect from a lot of other enthusiasts. I fear it will be looked at by a lot of Nissan enthusiasts as a bastardization, and it will probably be looked down on by domestic enthusiasts because of its import roots.

If this is your main motivation, I highly recommend you reconsider your platform choice.

Seriously though, "Nissan enthusiasts" will never respect any car that's not their own or at least set up to their idea of perfection, and "domestic enthusiasts" will never respect a Nissan.

[jobestudios]

By going through a shop, its all about how much money you want to spend man.

[GabeS14]

mixing different manufacturer's, especially import/domestic, seems to make the car get less respect from a lot of other enthusiasts. I fear it will be looked at by a lot of Nissan enthusiasts as a bastardization, and it will probably be looked down on by domestic enthusiasts because of its import roots.
MAn... forghet all that, I have personally never seen anyone criticise this kind of thing or even look down at it, there are tons of posts here talking about the LS1 swap and other domestic swaps.. and if you read them you will see how many people are amazed and wish they could do it..
f**k what other people might think////// make you car badazz...and enjoy ...anyone that looks down at it...is probably jealous...
most of the people in this forum that spend their time criticizing other cars are the ones that dont even have one to begin with..
(haters)
comprende..?

[Nikeboy355]

Try the KA turbo out and take it from there...

It's the cheapest and makes plenty of power for whatever type of racing you are planning to do...

[eastcoastS14]

^^ u in cali or anywhere near if so prime time to look for stuff like this http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=134320 get ur stuff cheap

[cmcdougle]

LS1. That would be awesome.

[STARBUCKS]

2JZ is gonna be the cheapest and most durable set up that'll make good power... look into it

[drift freaq]

2JZ is gonna be the cheapest and most durable set up that'll make good power... look into it
lol ya keep on feeding him the info you know nothing about.

[CA18_S13]

RB would be tight but KA-T easier to find replacement parts as far as water pump alternator or other parts,and possibly bottom ends. But do what you want.

[mRclARK1]

2JZ is gonna be the cheapest and most durable set up that'll make good power... look into it

:rofl: :rofl:

[staygold24]

ls1. its easier to source, tons of aftermarket support, all mechanics can work on it being a domestic motor.

Hinson makes the swap semi easy, only thing youll have to do is wiring

[Wei240]

and no more response from original poster?....

ls7 yo!

[rubberbiscuitt]

the "v8 240sx" sticky has enough info for me to make a descision: "The iron block four cylinder is 128 pounds heavier than the aluminum LS1!" and not to mention, if you pick the right rear end gears the tremac t56 trans will do over 160mph.

[Nikeboy355]

Actually this thread is useless without knowing what type of racing this guy wants to do...

[FusionR240sx]

If this is your main motivation, I highly recommend you reconsider your platform choice.

Seriously though, "Nissan enthusiasts" will never respect any car that's not their own or at least set up to their idea of perfection, and "domestic enthusiasts" will never respect a Nissan.


yea... and then u run them with a ls6/x in it and rape all that come near you a new a-hole:bigok:

[s13gold]

how much cash do you actually have to spend?
for example...can u afford a fully built motor / labor. and fund it today..
or will u upgrade paycheck by paycheck?

[Matej]

LS.
I hope to go LS someday.

[Scarceas]

and no more response from original poster?....

Just wanted to read some replies before responding....

Thanks to EVERYONE that replied. Interesting point on the high rev/stroke issue, thanks for the heads up on the rebuild price being a bit high, for the leads on some cheaper parts and ways to save money, and as for why the SR swap is not on my list--I'm really not wanting to run on a used engine, so if I'm going to rebuild for turbo, I think the KA will deliver more of the torque curve I am looking for.

Actually this thread is useless without knowing what type of racing this guy wants to do...

Not useless to me. As I said, I wanted "to see if my general impressions are correct." Having some validation (as well as some counterpoints) relating to my pricing helps me make my decision.

Still, for those that asked or are interested, my main plan for this car is to drive it everywhere!

I will probably take it drag racing less than 5 times in its new life. I might do some SCCA or some local auto-x or something, but I may try that and decide I don't like it. Basically, I just want to have fun with the car. It will not be purpose built for anything other than a fun daily driver.

More and more I am thinking KA-T is the best option for me. Easier to get parts, less expensive parts, and hopefully easier to find a shop to do the work. It leaves plenty of room in my budget for suspension, brakes, wheels/tires, interior, and exterior. To do RB or LSX I would have to skimp on some other things. Though with a KA it won't be the fastest thing on the road, I think it will be a great all around sports car.

In my heart I want an RB, and still I can hear some voice in my head telling me how much I will never regret putting a crate LS2 in there. But my practical side is telling me to keep the street legal motor with abundant relatively cheap parts available that also costs a few grand less. I am sure I won't be sad if I have flat, useable 250+ ft/lb torque curve to play with every day.

[EJ253]

LS2 if its a drag car
RB25/SR20 is its a DD/weekend/autox car
RB26/2JZ if its a track car

my .02

[Wei240]

they're all used engines... unless it's crate...

sr parts are cheap, it was expensive back in the 90's
rb parts are getting cheaper too

you can rebuild any engine...

i'd go ka-t if i were you, look at ka-t.org

[cloudstrife930]

go rb20. best bang for the buck. You can get a full rb20 swap for 1200 from ebay. it drops into s14 with only need of r 32 crossmember. You could also check tophat performance they have rb20 crate motors fully built for boost and you could swap that over later and boost the hell outta that thing. They also have ka24de crate for boost for like 3000. Im going rb20, and later getting an rb20 crate.

[g6civcx]

Chevy LS1, LS2, LS6, LS7 - crate or slightly used
This is the lightest of the group, and gets possibly the best gas mileage (thanks to displacement on demand). I have very mixed feelings about doing this. Seems like a reliable path to gobs of power, but mixing different manufacturer's, especially import/domestic, seems to make the car get less respect from a lot of other enthusiasts. I fear it will be looked at by a lot of Nissan enthusiasts as a bastardization, and it will probably be looked down on by domestic enthusiasts because of its import roots.
A swap of this nature requires custom mounts, transmission swap, possible differential upgrade, custom drive shaft, and wiring.
Estimate $12,000 swapped for an LS1, 300+ rwhp, great low end response
Estimate $14,000 swapped for an LS2, modded LS1 or LS6, 400rwhp, great low end response

Don't worry about what people say. You have more torque than a Japanese car and less weight than an American car. It's the best of both. Trust me. I have 350 genI sbc. It would be even lighter with an LSx, but more $$$.

The diff can stay the same. Just need everything forward including the driveshaft.

I like the idea of having a brand new crate motor available any time I want. You can go with GMPP or a thousand different aftermarket crate engine builders. KA/SR/RB will have limited sources for crate motor.

[8Nismo9]

all those options are great,each has its ups and downs
ka-t is good,heard its better then a SR,like i said thats what iv heard from former SR owners
LSX is a great way,lots of power there same with the 2JZ and RB's
so like others have said,it all depends on what racing you want to do and your personal preference.
mine would be the LSX(http://www.hinsonsupercars.com/)

[98koukile]

I'd say go lsx and put a s15 diff and final drive gear in it... highway gearing would be awesome and 1st thru 3rd would be more usable for auto-x

[g6civcx]

Where's all this talk about the rear diff coming from? The T56 has a .5 6th gear.

[300hp owen]

LS1T56 is the way to go unless you happen to find an LS2 for cheap.

I have had my LS1FC for 4 years now and its been nothing short of amazing to drive every single time. an S14 with an LS1/2 would be just heavenly, sixspeeds of freighttrain hauling torque, you'd only be mad you didnt do the swap sooner.

[Anto]

You could probably tow shit too, LOL

I think if you want to DD your car, you're not going to want to worry about serious maintenance as you would with a built turbo car - LSx would be the way to go. Good tq for city, and 6th gear for highway.

OR you can get the best of both and go turbo LSx. yeee haww

[RUTH'LESSDET]

ls2 is the way to go im about to start my ls2 project shortly no more weak sauce sr20's for me good luck with your swap my.02
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/ruthlessdet/GTO%20SWAP/DSC05838.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/ruthlessdet/GTO%20SWAP/DSC05843.jpg

[g6civcx]

One thing to keep in mind is how you're going to source parts.

With RBs and SRs, and even KA, you're going to have to rely almost on the aftermarket exclusively for parts since RB and SR (except for FWD) were not available in the US. Some KA parts can be sourced from the dealer, and folks like Justin at Nissan dealers can get you JDM parts. But Nissan officially stopped carrying RWD KA parts a few years ago (10 years of factory support) so your only option is the aftermarket or used parts.

If you reused as many parts as possible from a car that was available for sale in the US, and especially if the car is popular, e.g. Camaro/Firebird, GTO, Corvette, you can get these parts new from any GM dealer. There is also a lot of aftermarket vendors and used parts available.

But even if you have a popular car that was available in the US, that still doesn't guarantee that you can find parts. Example: try finding a used longblock for an Evo. Your only source is new from the dealer = $$$ or aftermarket crate motors = $$$$$. So choose carefully.

For example, if I needed a part for my engine, I would look for parts for a 1985 Chevy pickup 2WD. If I wanted transmission parts, I would look for a 1985 Camaro 305 V8. Any GM dealer or auto parts store will carry these parts. The rest of the chassis parts can be used from a stock S13. Plus I can get new crate motors from GMPP for less than half of what used JDM motors cost.


Think carefully about what you want to do. If it's a show car that doesn't get driven at all then do what you want, but if you abuse/daily your car you may want to consider something that's more practical for your needs.

[hinds90]

Whats wrong with the 1jz/2jz. I personally just want 350 reliable whp with out opening the motor up. So if anybody has any reason another swap would be better point me in the right direction.

[lflkajfj12123]

ls1 or sr20det for a reliable car that can perform however you choose

ka-t you're bound to run into problems they're stubborn...

[EJ253]

no SR cuz you HAVE to be different.
even if it cost 5 figures more

[okis14]

I've drove with a SR for a total of about 9ish years, a KA-T for about 3 years and just did a LS1 and only had 5 small runs which is about 10 minutes (2 runs were wasted since I was just getting a feel for the car.) SR's and KA's are great but damn I love my LS1. I still have another S14 with a SR.

You can check out my build here. http://www.d-rated.com/site.aspx?page=LS1%20Build (http://www.d-rated.com/site.aspx?page=LS1%20Build)

My only gripe is the gearing. A 6 speed tranny with stock final drive and 6500 rpm limit sucks for drifting. I was constantly shifting. I'm just about done putting in a Q45 3.5 R&P so that should at least help some. Once I feel the engine is running good I'm going to pump the rpm limit up a little. I think I'm also going to look for a 4 speed tranny or regear mine but still need to research it.

[TheJerk]

The LS series motors are over 450lbs by themself, making them indeed heavier than the KA/SR and maybe even RB series motors. Then factor in the 50lb flywheel (no joke) and 125lb trans, and your adding over 150lbs to this car. Not to mention this is the most exspensive route to take.


And belive me, it does not return the best, or near the best fuel economy.
LSx = Overrated.
VQ swap it.

[g6civcx]

The LS series motors are over 450lbs by themself, making them indeed heavier than the KA/SR and maybe even RB series motors. Then factor in the 50lb flywheel (no joke) and 125lb trans, and your adding over 150lbs to this car. Not to mention this is the most exspensive route to take.

Heavier compared to what?


And belive me, it does not return the best, or near the best fuel economy.
LSx = Overrated.
VQ swap it.

I prefer cast iron blocks and carb. Much much cheaper than any option mentioned above.


What swap do you have?

[Risu2112]

duurrrrrrr

***Post corrected for accuracy.***

[Sir]

ls2 bdw mods are $2K???
you just change the damn gas pedal to gto one or mod truck/vette one to fit

guess how I know. :P

[Risu2112]

ls2 bdw mods are $2K???
you just change the damn gas pedal to gto one or mod truck/vette one to fit

guess how I know. :P


Oh god I wrote that post so horribly. lemme go fix that. >.<