For those who street race...

[Sniper-X]

This just happend a few days ago here in Hawaii...don't let it happen to you or anyone you know...
Racing (http://starbulletin.com/2002/07/23/news/index10.html) and the guy who died had both of his legs severed off.  That is no way to go.

[xhdriver]

its a good thing im invincible

[Fourgig]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a 1989 blue Honda and a 1993 black Honda, both modified for racing</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I don't condone street racing, but it really pisses me off when mass media types that have NO idea WTF they're talking about tries to make every single automobile accident look like a street race.

What exactly makes a car "modified for racing?" &nbsp;A strut bar? &nbsp;Cut springs? &nbsp;A 4pt harness? &nbsp;A TypeR sticker? &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzz:'>

[hopeful]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Fourgig @ July 24 2002,01:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">a 1989 blue Honda and a 1993 black Honda, both modified for racing</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I don't condone street racing, but it really pisses me off when mass media types that have NO idea WTF they're talking about tries to make every single automobile accident look like a street race.

What exactly makes a car "modified for racing?" A strut bar? Cut springs? A 4pt harness? A TypeR sticker? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzz:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
honda's cant be modified to race...jks

But yeah, the reporter probably saw altezza's and racing stripes..

[Anubis]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (xhdriver @ July 23 2002,02:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">its a good thing im invincible</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
ah yes, the 240's do have a magic forcefield that prevents all harm. But seriously, i dont like to think about accidents and car wrecks.

[Nerfdude]

yeah, personal opinion.. these are the consequences of street racing if you're in irresponsible asshole, OR there's a freak accident. now, freak accidents can happen regarless of how fast you're going, and can't be controlled, really, so we'll just assume that we're dealing with irresponsibility. it always boggles my mind how people racing in a relatively straight line can hit each other... unles one of them cuts the other off in a very irresponsible, asshole-like fashion. there are points when you have to draw the line. i like to keep my racing on the sane side, and if it costs me a win, who cares? it's not like i would have won anything other than the right to flip on my hazards. so, kids, don't drive under influence of drugs, alcohol, or an inflated ego.
now i've gotta go put another coat of primer on my bondo. rock on!

[HippoSleek]

Uh - see the funny thing about street racing is that it is ususally done on the "streets." &nbsp;Where kids and dogs play. &nbsp;Where cars pull out. &nbsp;Where there is traffic, potholes, debris, and other things that you wouldn't find on a race track (or want to hit at 70-120+ mph).

Seeing as how real-live professional racer's haven't felt their skills have developed enough to start putting such obstacles on real tracks, I'm going to guess either you are an exceptional talent and should turn pro right away or you just don't realize the risks you are taking with other people's safety.

But I'm sure none of these things would ever happen to YOU...

(twice... b/c after the first time you will never do it again).

[sil80]

"Police are seeking witnesses to the collision in which alcohol also may have been a factor" hmmm
I dought they would have said shit about mods if it was some modded chevy or ford... who knows though... Thing is we all know that street racing is pretty stupid. We also know that most of use race on the streets anyways, it might be a friend and you want to have fun or some ricer that is pissing you off... The thing is that some people dont have a track near them or its hella expansive.. sure there are other excuses. Thing is that street racing is always going to happen tell we are unable to controll the car except for the destination.

Have fun and drive with in your limits considering the surrounds... hmm hella of a judgement call....

[Griffon2k]

Auto Racing began in the streets. When people realized the thrill of pushing the limits of the vehicle to decide who the fastest was, auto racing was born. It has been around since before the chrysler hemis and the big block chevys, and odds are that it will be around when cars no longer work on internal combustion engines.

True enough, it is safer to go to the track to prove yourself, but let's be honest, when you are at the traffic light with nothing there but two cars and open street, you can feel the urge to hit that throttle better than you can feel your own heartbeat. Some will let that feeling loose, others might not. The truth is we have all felt it, and at some point, somewhere we have all given in to it.

I don't condone street racing in the sense of pulling off from a traffic light going 60+ in a 35 zone filled with crosswalks, but I see nothing wrong with the organized, off the public street racing events that I have taken part in. These weren't Fast and Furious style with 200 people lined up on both sides of the street and four cars in two lanes either. These were two cars per race, 1 man to start the race, and the only spectators were other racers who were themselves lined up behind and preparing to race.

In anything that we do, there is a risk. You can drive the speed limit on a public road, and some truck could traction or something and kill you. The odds of that are just as high as striking a pedestrian while street racing. hell, I watched a girl in high school get pinned to a fence by a car losing traction while going 45 in a 45 mph zone. Things happen. The most that I can advise anyone to do, is the same thing they should already be doing if they are behind the wheel in the first place: PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU AND THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU ARE DOING.

HippoSleek- I understand your points on the dangers of street racing, however I don't believe you should generalize those points. They don't apply to every street racing situation. There are people who might not take it to the track and pay $50, but who take it off public streets nonetheless.

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ July 24 2002,8:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In anything that we do, there is a risk. You can drive the speed limit on a public road, and some truck could traction or something and kill you. The odds of that are just as high as striking a pedestrian while street racing. hell, I watched a girl in high school get pinned to a fence by a car losing traction while going 45 in a 45 mph zone. Things happen. The most that I can advise anyone to do, is the same thing they should already be doing if they are behind the wheel in the first place: PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU AND THE PEOPLE AROUND YOU ARE DOING.

HippoSleek- I understand your points on the dangers of street racing, however I don't believe you should generalize those points. They don't apply to every street racing situation. There are people who might not take it to the track and pay $50, but who take it off public streets nonetheless.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
With all due respect, don't kid yourself. &nbsp;You accuse me of generalization and then you over generalize with absolutely inaccurate information. &nbsp;

Do you understand why speed limits were created? &nbsp;Do you know anything about the physics of a car's braking system? &nbsp;Do you understand that racing, of any type, requires focus? &nbsp;Do you know what the cost of admission is at a dragstrip and how common they are in the US? &nbsp;I'm going to guess the answer to all of the above is no.

1) &nbsp;Speed limits: &nbsp;Speed limits were created b/c they were the approximate safe speed for a car under normal conditions. &nbsp;Factors in this equation include visibility, pedestrians, traffic, terrain, etc. &nbsp;While slight exceedences may be allowable - one must keep in mind that someone (probably smarter than you) put them there for a reason, not just to piss you off.

2) &nbsp;Brakes: &nbsp;Read this - Braking distances (http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/driving/articles/43810/article.html) - then talk to me about the difference in speed and the ability to avoid and accident. &nbsp;Now think for a minute: if you are going so much faster than the speed limit (which is the safe speed for the conditions) that it requires DOUBLE the stopping distance, you are putting everyone involved at greater risk. &nbsp;When you have DOUBLE the time in which to react, don't even suggest the the "odds" are just as high. &nbsp;Failing to note the effect of higher speeds in ANY area means you were a) wrong and b) over generalizing.

3) &nbsp;Attention span: &nbsp;The funny thing about any type of racing is that people do it to win. &nbsp;Another thing is that it requires concentration to shift at just the right times, etc. &nbsp;That means the amount of attention you give to the road is reduced b/c you are too busy checking out how close you are to the other visor-wearing kid and you are too busy worried about squeezing every bit of performance out of your car. &nbsp;That means less attention to the rest of the driving public. &nbsp;Just listen to the average kill story - it is all about exactly where the other car was and when someone shifted. &nbsp;Again, a) wrong and b) over generalizing on your part.

4) &nbsp;Where and $$: &nbsp;Dragstrips are liberally populated throughout the country. &nbsp;In fact, I've never heard of anyone who wanted to go that couldn't - at least in a relatively urbanized area. &nbsp;Geezus - I've got 3 1/4 mi. strips w/n 40 or so miles of my house. &nbsp;It's not a question of finding them. &nbsp;Otherwise, you cite a $50 admission charge. &nbsp;Give me a fvucking break! &nbsp;$10 here. &nbsp;You can do friggin' battle of the imports for under $50! &nbsp;Once again, you would be a) wrong and b) over generalizing.

So, you managed to make no points AND accuse me of something you did in spades. &nbsp;What do you do for an encore? &nbsp;Next time, before your fingers start moving - take about 15 seconds and think about the fact that some people don't like BS answers. &nbsp;Thanks for playing, drive through.

[sil80]

"The thing is that some people dont have a track near them or its hella expansive"
I should have been more specific since someone here is getting way to angry and mean.
When I say track I dont me just 1/4mile dragstrips.. I was more pointing towards circut style tracks cause that is the style of racing im into. Just thought I would clerify so I dont get attacked.

[mrmephistopheles]

Street racing is teh ghey.

[240sxtreme]

Hey Sniper, so you're in Hawaii? &nbsp;You know anyone with the last name Fuke? &nbsp;They're pretty much all on the Big Island though.

anyways, for this post. &nbsp;It's 20 bucks for racing at the drag strips around here...well.....20 bucks after the initial 27 bucks(7 for a yearly register). one of the tracks is good, the other sucks hardcore...but it's still good enough to get that urge out.

also, if you don't have a SCCA event near you...well then....work with them to bring it....or bring it closer to where you only have to drive a few hours. &nbsp;If there is none close enough, are there any big parking lots, if there ar, you could do solo2...that's really all it takes for them to setup. &nbsp;Here near portland, they do it at local ski resort parking lots, the paddock at the local racetrack, for a few ideas. &nbsp;And I've talked with Canadians and such that actually drive all the way down here to race on the track, so if you really do want to race, unfortunately, that's often part of the game. &nbsp;If doing solo2(cones) would be good enough for you, find some parking lot(big), that is unused on weekends, and contact the closest SCCA chapter, to see how one might go about bringing it there.

for myself, I never go to the "street races" anymore..since cops are all over that like flys on flypaper. &nbsp;plus, now they can tow my car, and any spectators, and throw me in jail...with a huge fine. &nbsp;not worth it. &nbsp;and for twisties and stuff, I'm actually able to control my urge, while I'm planning, and prepping my car for solo2 and such. &nbsp;sure, occasionally I do speed on the highway...but so far, I've really never gotten the chance to really "race" anyone with no traffic or in a good area, with less likelihood of a cop, etc. &nbsp;And I refuse to race people when there is traffic...that's the worst thing you can do. &nbsp;It's very disrespectful, and can and sometimes does cause wrecks.

ok..long enough post I think...sorry...but there's a lot to say on the subject.

[Tyler Durdan]

All of you guys make a strong point...especially Hipposleek. &nbsp;Street racing is very dangerous, and can be expensive (tickets, wrecks, etc..). &nbsp;Here's the facts though: closest track for some people is a two hour drive, costs generally $15, and they don't want to wait in line for a 1/2 hour to run their car...at least for a lot of people in my area. &nbsp;This is why people do street racing. &nbsp;It's cheap (as long as you don't get caught or wrecked), gives a you a thrill due to the level of danger, and you meet a lot of people into your hobbie: cars.

Needless to say, street racing is not going to go away. &nbsp;Like stated above, it's been around a lot longer than you or I have been here, and it's not going anywhere fast. &nbsp;I personally will admit (one of the few to do it) that I go to the street racing scene every once in a while. &nbsp;I won't actually race unless I feel that there won't be any unknown obstacles pop up. &nbsp;If you don't condone street racing...that's fine, I see your point, and agree with it a lot. &nbsp;But, don't jump on the first guys who say they street race and slap them with a stereotype of "idiot", or "dumb*ss teenager".

I don't want to start a flame war here...I just wanted to discuss some points to this topic.

[HippoSleek]

TD: &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'> &nbsp;I hear you - but from my spot on the bully pulpit, I'll try to slow it down. &nbsp;The more involved people get w/ motorsports, the less likely they whould be to do stupid things like street race. &nbsp;I'm pro racing - but pro REAL racing.

FWIW: I didn't call "idiot"... but when someone accuses me of logical fallacy while swimming in their own, I get a bit testy. &nbsp;Otherwise, I do think there is a direct corrolation b/n street racing and age. &nbsp;I know friends who did it 5 years ago - but wouldn't today. &nbsp;Also, I don't see too many old guys revving on everything driving down the road.

[Jim96SC2]

I'm gonna have to say that I'm with some streetracers here. I don't know about any of you, but the only dragstrip by me is 50+ miles away and the next one is about 90-100. Forget any street courses. They haven't been around for 4 years when the last one was taken over by people who moved in years after the place opened then complained about "noise". However, lets get back to the legal alternatives. Both strips close at either 6 or 7pm. So this either means I blow off working or I miss racing (again due to people complaining of "noise"). Streets are my only real alternative, as well as the people living around me.

I've also witnessed/taken part in about 500+ races. Only one was even close to an accident (some dipshit racer wanted to change parking lots so he pulled out in front of a race) which did nothing but cause some braking and a re-match. If done properly with thought and safety and not testosterone it's a perfectly semi-safe way of having fun.

[Tyler Durdan]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HippoSleek @ July 24 2002,6:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but from my spot on the bully pulpit, I'll try to slow it down.

FWIW: I didn't call "idiot"... but when someone accuses me of logical fallacy while swimming in their own, I get a bit testy. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Don't stop the bulling, it's pretty damn funny to read you ripping a guy a new asshole...at least I find it funny.

I'm not accussing you of calling people idiots. &nbsp;Some people jump on others who admit to street racing with some type of dumbass remark.

[Griffon2k]

HippoSleek,

Thanks for the post, but it didn't prove anything. About your comment on the odds of an accident happens from everyday driving as opposed to the odds of accidents happening because of street racing, you generalized again. Such BS comments may appease some people in the forum, but because you like to stick your chest out so much, I CAN'T let you get away with it. In that very comment, you forgot to figure in the REAL odds of accidents resulting from everyday driving. Once you figure in the odds of getting in an accident because of drunk driving, amount of people on the road vs driving speed of those people on the road vs traffic flow, random automotive failure, failure to notice traffic signs or lights, drivers who haven't had enough sleep, road conditions, drivers who use cellular phones, drivers who mutil-task while driving, stats of accidents caused by everyday driving vs. stats of accidents caused by "street racing", etc, guess what?? THE ODDS OF GETTING IN AN ACCIDENT RESULTING FROM EVERYDAY DRIVING IS HIGHER THAT THE ODDS OF AN ACCIDENT RESULTING FROM "STREET RACING"

Also, would you mind telling me how often you see people "street racing" in residential areas, or "street racing" in the middle of traffic, or "street racing" in general?? Maybe you have the wrong impression of what street racing is. Yes every now and then you see a couple of testosterone driven people go at it to see who can get from 0-60 first, but rarely do you ever see two people pushing the 90mph+ speeds that are typical in the event we know as drag racing or "street racing" I am not sure how many street races you have gone to HippoSleek, but the point of a "street race" is not to do it on a public road where police are a plenty. Most of the races I have been to have been as I said before, organized in a manner where the people involved CONSCIOUSLY remove themselves from public situations where innocent bystanders may be hurt. At most of these events, the only spectators are usually the people participating themselves, which reduces the potential injuries or casualties to just themselves, which is similar to the potential injury or casualty risk faced on a 1/4 regulation track. Or did you forget that PRO RACING (drag, auto x, etc) IS DANGEROUS ALSO? My comment to you asked you not to GENERALIZE things. There are people who participate in "street racing" who are responsible, that is why they take their events away from the public scene. Maybe you should watch a "street race" some time.

Another GENERALIZATION you made was on the availabilty of track time and its price. You know around where I live the price of a movie ticket is around $7.00. In New York the price is $10.00 or more. Ever heard of the phrase "Prices may vary"?? Not to mention the closest 1/4mi regulation track to me is in Dinwiddie, Va, which is about 1.5-2hrs away from me. Sorry if it isn't as convenient for me as it is for you to go to the track on Saturday, plop down $10-20 and have at it. When I do have the opportunity to go to Dinwiddie they usually have a meet going on like the Mopar/Chrysler meet, or NOPI Nationals(this year), or Battle of the Imports, where you have to pay around $50.00 for track time. Hence my statement on price and availablity on track time. Your problem HippoSleek is that you assume that everyone has the same situation as you do, or that everything is the same everywhere. I hear a saying once....ASSUMPTIONS CAN MAKE AN ASS OUT OF YOU.....hmmmm

And before I forget....Please DO NOT make the mistake of assuming that I am some teenager new on the block and dumb in the head just because I don't have as many posts as you, or because I don't feel the necessity to regurgitate statistics I read from a DMV exam guide, or numbers I read in some magazine. Numbers look good, but they look better when they mean something. Anyone can post up something they read out of Sport Compact Car, the question is does it really back up their arguement, or is it a shameless attempt to make themselves look intelligent through paraphrases of words that aren't theirs? Learn the difference MR. PRO RACER.

&nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[fodive]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ July 25 2002,6:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And before I forget....Please DO NOT make the mistake of assuming that I am some teenager new on the block and dumb in the head just because I don't have as many posts as you</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
wow...i dont think anyone on this board cares too much about post count = knowledge...


here's my .02... i agree with points for both of these...but griffin i have to say...street racing is still illegal, not matter how organized it is, when your on a race track, there are less "variables" then when you are on a public road, even if it seems like an empty one....i dont feel like typing anoy out now cause im lazy...but please....let the flames burn boys, this is fun to read &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[Nerfdude]

the thing is, though... even though street racing is illegal, and even though it's a less controlled environment, the benefits still outweigh the risks, if you really want to race. i don't want to pay to drive my car, and if i race someone on the street at the right time in the right places, there's maybe a 5% chance i'll get pulled over. again, right time and place, there's virtually NO risk of injury to myself or others. sure, you can spit back something about how there's huge risk, and i'm stupid for thinking otherwise. but i'm confident in my ability to drive in a straight line for a quarter mile, or even a full one.

[xhdriver]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">That means the amount of attention you give to the road is reduced b/c you are too busy checking out how close you are to the other visor-wearing kid and you are too busy worried about squeezing every bit of performance out of your car</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
that is hillarious, i laughed out loud (the visor part)

note:i have nothing against visors

[silvia240]

street racing is the sheit! if you dont like it... dont go. &nbsp;peroid.

[HippoSleek]

1) Wow - you left out the danger of pianos falling from rooftops onto cars below... that can happen in daily driving too. True: Odds are, you are more likely to be in an accident in the 15K mi. you put on your car each year than the mileage from clowning them on the streets. Somehow, in probably 200K mi. of driving, I've never had an accident from any of your risk factors. I'm not saying they're not dangers, but I guess I fear some pimpin' punk coming at me at double my rate of speed more than someone's mom swerving during a cell phone conversation. There is a big difference between deciding whether to report it to insurance and being in the local newspaper (see above).

2) I see street racing about every time I get into my car and drive. I'm not really cool enough to hit the local F&F scene to check out where people have 10 second cars lined up surrounded by race-queens. But regularly enough, when I head down the road, I see the guys w/ their fart cans revving on each other, burning out away from stoplights, cutting through traffic at unsafe speeds, and more than doubling the speedlimits in mixed residential/commercial areas (no pure residential where I live). While I admire your attempt to redefine "street racing" to limit it to include areas that don't resemble streets at all, I think your being intellectually dishonest by suggesting that this is the extent of the issue. If you will concede that the only safe street racing is the kind you are talking about, we would meet at the middle. The problem is, when people say "street race" they also mean racing on busy (and not so busy at the time) public roads in a variety of areas. Unless you exclude these areas, your arguments in the first two paragraphs are invalid. FWIW, I never suggested that real racing was safe for the participants (although safety equipment, crews, and on-site EMTs help). Also, I know of at least two law suits that have been filed by maimed spectators at your version of a street race (tracks have liability waivers, stunnaz don't). The other funny story I always heard from the local New Carrolton scene is how many cars would get wrecked when the cops would bust it (everyone would run into each other/walls/ etc. trying to flee <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> priceless! )

3) I admit - by Mapquest, I live 58 mi. from the nearest dragstrip (it never seemed that far). I've driven five hours to go to road courses and had no problem driving 1.5 to drags when I did that. But more importantly, thanks for giving me ONE THING that was provable - your BS story about VMP. Why not try Thusday night test and tune ($26 5-10pm) T & T at VMP (http://www.virginiamotorsportspk.com/Thursday's_Test_&_Tune.htm) or how about EVERY FRIDAY NIGHT for $15 from 5-?? end of runs SW at VMP (http://www.virginiamotorsportspk.com/street_wars.htm) . Loosen that visor and maybe your brain will get enough oxygen to find stuff like this.

4) I've seen your other posts - you strike me as more of a pain in the ass than a teenager. I'd guess you are about to grad from college and think you are a) invincible; b) omnicient; and c) the BEST driver 3vAr. SCC? whatthe: Of course, at least I cited some evidence to back up my argument - but I guess that's just regurgitating to you? And I guess you know better than to believe scientifically verifiable tests? FWIW, I'm no where near a pro racer... but we all have aspirations (I'm working on the title "Club Racer", thank you). In the meanwhile, I'd just like to point people in the direction of legal, safer alternatives w/ more enjoyment.

Thanks for your misinformation, new definitions, out right BS, and inability to grasp proven fact.

BTW: thanks for that helpful IM. Next time, just waste my time with st00pid posts not slow loading IMs, okay? [note to self: be like Travis and just avoid this accumenically challenged individual]

[camppain]

**announcer* and thats the end of round 12!.........

*judges tally score cards*.........

*announcer* judge #1 scores it unanimous in favor of the champion HippoSleek
judge #2 unanimous decission in favor of HippoSleek
Judge #3 unanimous favor of hippoSleek

still the undisputed el grand champion of the worrrrrrrrrlllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
lllllllllllllllllddddddddddddddddddddddddddd


Hippo "Sugar" Sleek!

ok ok now seriously ive been to those events griffon mentioned there are idiots there as well dont say there arent any idiots. plain and simple ive raced on the street i dont condone it i donty think its safe yes i think i myself am stupid at times when i do it. there are way to many facotrs on the road with you just going the speed limit and add in the extra 30-40-50+ miles you do when your racing either on highway or the street. you are more than likely to get into an accident than avoid the one you just got into if you were doing somewhere in between the lines of a safe speed limit or some over. thats just common sense no matter if you are a "screet ricer" or not. tracks are more fun the nearest one to me is far also doesnt mean i have to go screet ricing since it is. thats why you plan events with others who drive 240's hondas nissans dsm's whatever. even if the case take your screet ricing buddies down there with you. theres a thing called sick days and vacation days i know even mickey d's offers those as well.

and whats up with visors coming back? that was the fad in highschool when i went back in 97-98 when i graduated. now nelly's bringing back wearing basketball jerseys too? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/dozingoff.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':zzz:'> &nbsp;so ghey or as ca18guy would say "uber ghey"ok im done continue with the bs topics ive been seeing on here lately so i can got o other forums and witness intelligent babble

[West]

I didnt feel like reading this whole post, but I hate street racing. I think the link below will help you all feel the same.

If you street race go to the link below, thats what happens to people who street race. If you dont, then good for you, you dont have to go to the link.

WEAK STOMACH BEWARE

http://www.amplus.com.br/crashed/ferrari/ferrari1.htm

[Griffon2k]

Just thought that I would squeeze one in before they finally lock this thread....

1) Thank you for conceding that argument.

2) I did define the difference between a street race and 0-60 from a traffic light. The point of a street race is to see who can get from point A to point B faster. For reputation purposes, this is generally done in an isolated (away from police and people who can call police) area where other racers can confirm a kill. The revving at the light, speeding through traffic, etc. Is not street racing. hell, people speed through traffic because they are late to work, an appointment, school, etc, so there are too many factors to assume that every one going above the speed limit on a public street is street racing.

3) Good, you actually read the DISTANCE part of that statement, why don't you go back and read the part about me going to the track when it is CONVENIENT for me. I try to keep my job, so I can't just skip out to drive to the track on weekdays a.k.a. -DAYS WHEN THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS IN ATTENDANCE ARE EXPECTED TO BE LOW AND BECAUSE OF THIS PRICES ARE LOWER- And I save my sick days for days when I may actually be sick or experience a death in the family, you know....WHAT THEY ARE MEANT FOR...

4) Evidence to support your argument??? I have yet to see that. You actually went to MapQuest to discover that the comments you were making on the average distance from a track were pure BS, I commend you on that. Your prices qoutes don't win you the argument because the argument was based on the CONVENIENCE of going to the track. There might be tracks in California that allow you to race free on some nights. That doesn't mean anything if I have to drive three days to get there. The point is tracks are often distant, and once you add the price of admission to the price of gas spent to get there, the whole ordeal seems rather INCONVIENENT for regular practice. I don't expect you to see that because you believe that everyone else lives like you do. I don't...that why I try not to make GENERALIZING statements.

So in your qoute you did nothing but give me

A) a price quote (Which was worthless given the argument was on CONVENIENCE, not on the CHEAPNESS or EXPENSIVENESS of track time).

B) More supposed "definitions of street racing" that are "definitions of street racing" because of your limited knowledge and &nbsp;observation of the event and the experience. But, what more can I expect from you when you base your definition of street racing on the FAST AND THE FURIOUS. That basically proved that you have no where near an actual street race, thus proving why you don't know why people do it, and why you label them as "unintelligent teenagers" and the like. The motorsports industry was built on street racing, and quite a few "adults" like you and me still do it. If you would like to truly experience what street racing really is feel free to visit me sometime...

Through our debates HippoSleek I have learned of the difference between you and myself.

You make "FACTUAL" comments about things you have never really experienced yourself (Drifting, Street Racing), you qoute "scientific verifiable tests" &nbsp;and statistics that don't truly back up your arguments, and you ASSUME that the way you see things in your playpen are the same in every other city, state, country, etc.

I on the other hand, speak only on the things that I have experienced myself or observed with my own eyes, and I don't speak as if I am an expert about things I know nothing about. That is one of the reasons my post count is low. I come here to learn things (technical and the like) from other people's experiences, and occasionally post when I can share mine. You know, you were right about one thing. I don't believe EVERYTHING I read because it is all subject to things like CHANGE, INTERPRETATION, APPLICABILTY, RELIABILTY, and ACCURACY, all things an intelligent person would consider when reviewing so called "facts". That is why I and everyone else here have minds of our own and that is why I can see through you and your BS.....I'll understand it you don't wish to respond to any more of my posts...I wouldn't either if I kept putting my foot in my mouth.

And just so YOU know,
THERE WAS NO 12th ROUND, YOUR A$$ WENT DOWN IN THE FIRST......

Good day my friend.....

[Nerfdude]

thanks West, for permanently scarring me... that's disgusting. i aw the guy and x-ed the page- what country was that in?

[uuninja]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Griffon2k @ July 25 2002,6:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just thought that I would squeeze one in before they finally lock this thread....

1) Thank you for conceding that argument.

2) I did define the difference between a street race and 0-60 from a traffic light. The point of a street race is to see who can get from point A to point B faster. For reputation purposes, this is generally done in an isolated (away from police and people who can call police) area where other racers can confirm a kill. The revving at the light, speeding through traffic, etc. Is not street racing. hell, people speed through traffic because they are late to work, an appointment, school, etc, so there are too many factors to assume that every one going above the speed limit on a public street is street racing.

3) Good, you actually read the DISTANCE part of that statement, why don't you go back and read the part about me going to the track when it is CONVENIENT for me. I try to keep my job, so I can't just skip out to drive to the track on weekdays a.k.a. -DAYS WHEN THE NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS IN ATTENDANCE ARE EXPECTED TO BE LOW AND BECAUSE OF THIS PRICES ARE LOWER- And I save my sick days for days when I may actually be sick or experience a death in the family, you know....WHAT THEY ARE MEANT FOR...

4) Evidence to support your argument??? I have yet to see that. You actually went to MapQuest to discover that the comments you were making on the average distance from a track were pure BS, I commend you on that. Your prices qoutes don't win you the argument because the argument was based on the CONVENIENCE of going to the track. There might be tracks in California that allow you to race free on some nights. That doesn't mean anything if I have to drive three days to get there. The point is tracks are often distant, and once you add the price of admission to the price of gas spent to get there, the whole ordeal seems rather INCONVIENENT for regular practice. I don't expect you to see that because you believe that everyone else lives like you do. I don't...that why I try not to make GENERALIZING statements.

So in your qoute you did nothing but give me

A) a price quote (Which was worthless given the argument was on CONVENIENCE, not on the CHEAPNESS or EXPENSIVENESS of track time).

B) More supposed "definitions of street racing" that are "definitions of street racing" because of your limited knowledge and observation of the event and the experience. But, what more can I expect from you when you base your definition of street racing on the FAST AND THE FURIOUS. That basically proved that you have no where near an actual street race, thus proving why you don't know why people do it, and why you label them as "unintelligent teenagers" and the like. The motorsports industry was built on street racing, and quite a few "adults" like you and me still do it. If you would like to truly experience what street racing really is feel free to visit me sometime...

Through our debates HippoSleek I have learned of the difference between you and myself.

You make "FACTUAL" comments about things you have never really experienced yourself (Drifting, Street Racing), you qoute "scientific verifiable tests" and statistics that don't truly back up your arguments, and you ASSUME that the way you see things in your playpen are the same in every other city, state, country, etc.

I on the other hand, speak only on the things that I have experienced myself or observed with my own eyes, and I don't speak as if I am an expert about things I know nothing about. That is one of the reasons my post count is low. I come here to learn things (technical and the like) from other people's experiences, and occasionally post when I can share mine. You know, you were right about one thing. I don't believe EVERYTHING I read because it is all subject to things like CHANGE, INTERPRETATION, APPLICABILTY, RELIABILTY, and ACCURACY, all things an intelligent person would consider when reviewing so called "facts". That is why I and everyone else here have minds of our own and that is why I can see through you and your BS.....I'll understand it you don't wish to respond to any more of my posts...I wouldn't either if I kept putting my foot in my mouth.

And just so YOU know,
THERE WAS NO 12th ROUND, YOUR A$$ WENT DOWN IN THE FIRST......

Good day my friend.....</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'> Your argument is delusional at best. In my past I have attended more street races than I care to remember. Not one of them was safe or organized. I have seen numerous accidents (one fatal), consumption of drugs and alcohol(often by drivers), fist fights, attempts to evade law enforcement, an every manner of reckless driving I can think of. At the scene of the race and through out the surrounding area.

You talk about all of the hazards that are present in normal daily driving. Do you think that as soon as you mash the gas from a green light that all of those dangers magically disappear? &nbsp;Do you think that because you and your fellow "racers" claim a street as theirs to race that suddenly pedestrians, mini-vans, and puppies know to stay out? It doesn't work that way. The fact that you refuse to admit this leads me to believe that you simply can't come to terms with the potential repercussions of your actions.

If street racing were safe, it would be legal. If you knew better than every one else, we would vote you our leader.
(god I hope no one brings up pot or George W. Bush) <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

[tnord]

mods are going to hate me for this........and you can ban my IP address if you like........but oh well. i don't care if i don't have a single fact or helpful bit of information my upcoming statement.

Griffon...........of the hundreds of people i've seen on this board, you are THE STUPIDEST FUCKING IDIOT I HAVE SEEN YET. if i ever met you, and you actually said the same things in person that you do here........i'd hope you have a good dental plan. not once have i seen you post anything accurate or helpful to anyone. have you ever noticed that no other members side with you in the arguments you involve yourself in? you want to know why? because you are the end all leader in ignorance and arrogance. how did you get to be this way? has eating your own shit for however many worthless years you've been alive corrupted your mind? do you hang out with nothing but 5th graders? or do you sit in a chair watching price is right all day with peanut butter on your balls and a hamster in your ass? please.........go away. PISS OFF YOU FUCKING WANKER

yes yes...........i know i have sunk to a new low.......but you know what? i don't give a shit. &nbsp;

btw.......West.........that's the most disturbing thing i've ever seen. i hope it serves the purpose you intended it to.

[AceInHole]

tnord really is a BIACH... he just doesn't have room in the sig for it <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Street Racing = Racing on a street. &nbsp;
Wow... that was hard.

Racing on a street = dangerous.
Maybe you're blocking off a street.... good for you: you're basically stealing public property, which is called public because other people are expected to use it at any time. &nbsp;Maybe you're in an isolated area... but if it's unused, why is there a street there?? &nbsp;Maybe it's at some hour of the night when nothing is going on.... but then... when is there really nothing going on?? &nbsp;Point being: if it's a street, and you're racing on it, you're putting your life and the lives of others at risk. &nbsp;Also... yes: needlessly putting your life at risk where you can seek other options (and there are other options) is not smart (i.e. stupid). &nbsp;For anyone who complains about the nearest drag strip being 50 miles away... WOW. &nbsp;You are a lazy son of a bitch. &nbsp;People regularly drive a few hours to go do some REAL racing.
In any case, maybe REAL street racing is done on the highway at insane speeds. &nbsp;Screw meeting the guy and setting up a race. &nbsp;Screw revving your engine at a light. &nbsp;Racing = who's faster. period. &nbsp;In this case, we all bow down to turbocharged hayabusas.

Point of street racing = see who's got bigger balls
What the hell would be the difference between accelerating to a speed faster and traveling a distance in a shorter time?? In both cases, you're attempting to go faster than the other guy.



camppain - visors are cool dude. &nbsp;they BEEN cool.

[Griffon2k]

For anyone else who decides to jump on the bandwagon and flame me without actually reading the details of my post....

1) I said in my first post that I do not condone street racing. I didn't claim that it wasn't dangerous, nor did I say that all street races were handled in the same matter. I simply shared experiences of my own in the area of street racing, and make the case that some people actually do consider the risks of street racing. I wasn't wrong in saying that, and if you choose to disagree that is your choice. The truth if the matter is that racing began in the street, and it will continue to happen on the street whether you like it or not.

2) I made my statement about the dangers of everyday driving because I have been in about five accidents, I was not the driver in any of them, but none of them occured because of street racing. And also my father was involved in an accident this week in which he was rear ended. Was it because of street racing? NO. It was because some woman placed her cell phone conversation as top priority over controlling her vehicle. My statements hold weight and are very relevant. Yes, accidents can and sometimes do occur from street racing, but the number of these types of accidents pale in comparison to those caused by everyday driving conditions.

3) "If street racing were safe, it would be legal. If you knew better than every one else, we would vote you our leader."

First of all, I am an individual and have my own opinions as I believe everyone should have, so I would never choose to be someone's leader, nor would I wish to be elected....Second...let's think... Smoking tobacco is legal, and so is drinking alcohol...Are these practices safe? hell no, they can cause diseases and tear up your organs and get this, THEY TELL YOU THIS ON THE LABEL. Still these practices are legal because the government can make a profit from both due to taxation....Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is safe....

Tnord if you happen to be wondering why I didn't respond to your post....read your post over again...it doesn't deserve a response.

[srJOEYdet]

I know a girl with a 95 talon TSI AWD and she has 6 speeding tickets, 1 exibition of speed, and 2 street racing tickets. Now her insurance is something like $4500 a year. I live in the same area as her and mine is $1300 a year. We both have full coverage, and I am 17 with a "sports car", she is 20 with a "sports car". Thats my anti-street race-state of mind.
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Lets say she had never recieved any of those tickets. She would probably have her car paid off and be running a 16g turbo on about 15 PSI! That would be more fun to me! I'll take speed on the track over slowness on the street for the same cost!

*for the nit pickers: I understand cost of collision insurance is different for different cars.

*also, nobody nail me for not practacing what I preech. Mental changes occur before the deciesions do. I shall no longer street race in uncontrolled invironments. There will never be full controll on the streets, but in he boonies where I live, I can get closer! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

Peace,
Joey

[Griffon2k]

For anyone else who decides to jump on the bandwagon and flame me without actually reading the details of my post....

1) I said in my first post that I do not condone street racing. I didn't claim that it wasn't dangerous, nor did I say that all street races were handled in the same matter. I simply shared experiences of my own in the area of street racing, and make the case that some people actually do consider the risks of street racing. I wasn't wrong in saying that, and if you choose to disagree that is your choice. The truth if the matter is that racing began in the street, and it will continue to happen on the street whether you like it or not.

2) I made my statement about the dangers of everyday driving because I have been in about five accidents, I was not the driver in any of them, but none of them occured because of street racing. And also my father was involved in an accident this week in which he was rear ended. Was it because of street racing? NO. It was because some woman placed her cell phone conversation as top priority over controlling her vehicle. My statements hold weight and are very relevant. Yes, accidents can and sometimes do occur from street racing, but the number of these types of accidents pale in comparison to those caused by everyday driving conditions.

3) "If street racing were safe, it would be legal. If you knew better than every one else, we would vote you our leader."

First of all, I am an individual and have my own opinions as I believe everyone should have, so I would never choose to be someone's leader, nor would I wish to be elected....Second...let's think... Smoking tobacco is legal, and so is drinking alcohol...Are these practices safe? hell no, they can cause diseases and tear up your organs and get this, THEY TELL YOU THIS ON THE LABEL. Still these practices are legal because the government can make a profit from both due to taxation....Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is safe....

Tnord if you happen to be wondering why I didn't respond to your post....read your post over again...it doesn't deserve a response.

[miata_man]

THAT IS THE GREATEST NEWS IN MIATA HISTORY!

[tnord]

PJ.........where the hell have you been? boy could we use you around here.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ July 26 2002,11:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">PJ.........where the hell have you been? boy could we use you around here.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Trying to get money to mount my Dunlops so I won't do 360 deg. spins during races (and still somehow beat Drifting Ricer by thousandths of a second).

[Drifting Ricer]

I really don't why tnord gets so angry about things like these?

Chill out. Even if griffong2k is spreading miss information there is no need for you to get all hyper about it. Just come down, why haven't you been moded yet I dun know. Honestly I don't see other forum senor members act like you do. Just look at FA. You don't see mav117 or asad cuss someone like you. Even before there were mods.

I use think you had good knowleged to share but with temper like that you can just keep it.
No I'm not defending griffon2k. I just think Tnord crossed the line. I don't care if I'm the only that thinks so.

[AceInHole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Drifting Ricer @ July 26 2002,1:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just look at FA. You don't see mav117 or asad cuss someone like you. Even before there were mods.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
mav has a dry sort of humor. &nbsp;asad has just been through it 7000 times or so (Actually, a few threads come to mind where one or the other "crossed a line", but that was before they were mods).

[Ni5mo180SX]

wow, how did I know it was gonna turn into this.

[Ni5mo180SX]

wtf, those pictures are fu*king disgusting. The guy at the bottom doesn't resemble a person anymore. Hes a mess.