sr20det 350hp goal sugg

[kove]

ok im new to the sr20det motor. but not new at all to turbo performance and engine mechanics i owned a shop for a few years and have worked on cars for years....granted i look at all the forums and see people wanting to make 350whp on a sr20det as i am looking to do... and they are spending 3grand plus to do this..ok im gonna say what i think im gonna do and do it for much cheaper..
sr20 tubular manifold for t3 200.00
garret 60-1 turbo 500.00
bigger injectors 300.00?
z32 maf ??

ok my main question is why is every one spending 2000.00 on a hks gtrs
or the gt28rs "disco potato" or the trust turbo when you can pick up these t3/t4s for so cheap...and dont feed me the well the bb turbos spool faster bit because if your willing to spend a grand extra for a 300 rpm faster of a spool that is rediculas.. i just dont get it???????

[steve shadows]

ok im new to the sr20det motor. but not new at all to turbo performance and engine mechanics i owned a shop for a few years and have worked on cars for years....granted i look at all the forums and see people wanting to make 350whp on a sr20det as i am looking to do... and they are spending 3grand plus to do this..ok im gonna say what i think im gonna do and do it for much cheaper..
sr20 tubular manifold for t3 200.00
garret 60-1 turbo 500.00
bigger injectors 300.00?
z32 maf ??

ok my main question is why is every one spending 2000.00 on a hks gtrs
or the gt28rs "disco potato" or the trust turbo when you can pick up these t3/t4s for so cheap...and dont feed me the well the bb turbos spool faster bit because if your willing to spend a grand extra for a 300 rpm faster of a spool that is rediculas.. i just dont get it???????

\


don't get within 100 mileso f a 60-1 one. The last time I used one on the sr20det with back in late 2002, and that lasted about a month. That turbo is meant for gn's or cameros...the 62-1 is a tad better, but that sucked too.:hammer:

The tried and true 50 trim to4e-t3 hybrid is the way to go for 350-400whp levels and decent - fast spool time on the sr20det.

I am actually selling one still, hit me back if your interested.

[redsuns3838]

you might want to get a fmic and boost controller, MAF, fuel pump, ECU retune/AF controller/stand alone..

the reason ppl spend over 3 grand to do something like this is because some ppl buy higher quality parts than what your tossing out. a 200 dollar tubular mani is cheap but if you go for something like fullrace the gains are better, flow is better, and has a lifetime warranty IF it ever cracks. a 200 dollar one you might crack it 6 months down the road or sooner.
unless your getting a custom one hooked up for cheap and its done right..
but otherwise i dont see a 200 dollar manifold lasting that long if you really push the car often.

[Silverbullet]

Kove: sorry to say, but ppl do spend that extra couple hundred dollars for quicker spool time. That, and the fact that it bolts right onto your stock manifold. Most people upgrade to the Megan manifold anways but its the simplicity. Most 240 owners are crazed about drift rather than drag racing and top end power. Better response = easier control. Thats the mentality behind it.



don't get within 100 mileso f a 60-1 one. The last time I used one on the sr20det with back in late 2002, and that lasted about a month. That turbo is meant for gn's or cameros...the 62-1 is a tad better, but that sucked too.:hammer:


can you be more detailed on what you mean by the turbos sucking?


the reason ppl spend over 3 grand to do something like this is because some ppl buy higher quality parts than what your tossing out. a 200 dollar tubular mani is cheap but if you go for something like fullrace the gains are better, flow is better, and has a lifetime warranty IF it ever cracks. a 200 dollar one you might crack it 6 months down the road or sooner.
unless your getting a custom one hooked up for cheap and its done right..
but otherwise i dont see a 200 dollar manifold lasting that long if you really push the car often.

Are you sure you're on the right forum here? Who buys those manifolds? Most of us go for the Megan $200 manifolds. I honestly have not heard a single case of them cracking from street cars to race cars. If it does... go buy another one and you still spend significantly less than a Full Race manifold.

[wootwoot]

/\/008. Go learn then come back with specific questions. At this point you shouldnt be asking but reading. You need way more then you listed

[DoriftoSlut]

I had Full-Race manifold on my S14 SR 350+ rwhp setup. I've also had a cheap manifold on there before-hand. Yuck city. cracked after 1 day. Had to do a couple hundred $$ worth of welding to it to make it last any decent amount of time.

I had a .63 A/R stage 1 t3/t04e 50 trim. It was rad. Still is rad. Full-Race manifold is one of the nicest things I have ever seen, it is pure sex, and EVERY LAST PENNY is worth it. Until you compare the 2 side-by-side, you'll never understand. Megan manifolds? Hah. You guys are funny.


Anywyas, on top of a turbo (if top mount, then add cost of manifold), you need 550+ (more like 740cc) injectors, Z32 MAFS (or D-Jetro), boost controller (Profec B spec 1 or spec S) a ROM tune ecu (RSEnthalpy) or other engine management (PFC, F-CON, AEM, Haltech) big FMIC, piping, exhaust, wastegate (HIGHLY reccomend ext wastegate for 300+ hp), Good cooling both oil and water (temps go UP with a big turbo and all that exhaust), cams, throttle body, intake mani, forged pistons (CP 9.0:1 or 8.5:1), rod bolts, new bearings, head studs, head gasket (Apex 1.1), light flywheel, strong clutch (RPS Max, Exedy Hyper Single, etc), good condition tranny, good motor mounts, t-bolt clamps to be sure of no blow-offs or leaks, V-band exhaust housing on turbo if you are baller cause 5 bolt flanges SUCK ASS. 4 bolt is ok, but not every manufacturer makes turbo housings in 4-bolt.


Yeah, honestly, i had around 8k+ in my setup. Sure, i focused on drifting abuse and thus reliabilty, a good compromise between top end and response, and a rock-solid setup that never had any problems (aside from the cracked manifold) and you COULD do it for much cheaper, but trust me, it wont be problem-free and you'll end up spending more once you realize what you need to do.

[gun]

I've heard no complaints from a T04/e turbo before, plus they're fairly cheap. BTW, check out Japanese Motorsport's website;they're down in Aussie, but they built a 510 WHP s13 for pretty damn cheap, oh yeah, it had STOCK internals too! i can send the article in an old mag if anyone wants some more info (not much on the site i think)

[redsuns3838]

silverbullet- im pretty sure im on the right forum. thanks for your concern. i never said EVERYONE buys fullrace, i said some ppl do. ur right, most ppl buy megan racing cuz its cheap and if it cracks just get another. then again most of us arent pushing 350 whp. id say 90% of the forums are pushing below 250whp. and furthermore, sadly, most 240s dont even see track time. theyre just pimped out daily drivers witha bunch of parts thrown in.


but if your serious about building a 350 whp car that you are going to be racing often. you will definately crack a cheap mani. sure u can buy a new one, and another, and another, until uve spent 1000 bux in crap manifolds and then u finally wise up and go for a better quality shit. i dunno, u get wut u pay for.

like i said, 1000 bux gets you a life time warrantied manifold with better gains than a other tubular manis.

overall i think the project needs more research. 350 whp isnt any good if the engine breaks.

spend the cash, do it right hte first time, and have fun instead of having to realize ur mistakes way later down the line.

[hybrid_eg]

I had Full-Race manifold on my S14 SR 350+ rwhp setup. I've also had a cheap manifold on there before-hand. Yuck city. cracked after 1 day. Had to do a couple hundred $$ worth of welding to it to make it last any decent amount of time.

I had a .63 A/R stage 1 t3/t04e 50 trim. It was rad. Still is rad. Full-Race manifold is one of the nicest things I have ever seen, it is pure sex, and EVERY LAST PENNY is worth it. Until you compare the 2 side-by-side, you'll never understand. Megan manifolds? Hah. You guys are funny.


Anywyas, on top of a turbo (if top mount, then add cost of manifold), you need 550+ (more like 740cc) injectors, Z32 MAFS (or D-Jetro), boost controller (Profec B spec 1 or spec S) a ROM tune ecu (RSEnthalpy) or other engine management (PFC, F-CON, AEM, Haltech) big FMIC, piping, exhaust, wastegate (HIGHLY reccomend ext wastegate for 300+ hp), Good cooling both oil and water (temps go UP with a big turbo and all that exhaust), cams, throttle body, intake mani, forged pistons (CP 9.0:1 or 8.5:1), rod bolts, new bearings, head studs, head gasket (Apex 1.1), light flywheel, strong clutch (RPS Max, Exedy Hyper Single, etc), good condition tranny, good motor mounts, t-bolt clamps to be sure of no blow-offs or leaks, V-band exhaust housing on turbo if you are baller cause 5 bolt flanges SUCK ASS. 4 bolt is ok, but not every manufacturer makes turbo housings in 4-bolt.


Yeah, honestly, i had around 8k+ in my setup. Sure, i focused on drifting abuse and thus reliabilty, a good compromise between top end and response, and a rock-solid setup that never had any problems (aside from the cracked manifold) and you COULD do it for much cheaper, but trust me, it wont be problem-free and you'll end up spending more once you realize what you need to do.

doriftoslut could not have put it better.. you go cheap and you can as mentioed but you'll pay for it shortly by double.. when you could have done it right the first time.. HP aint cheap! :-)

[kove]

if it cracks i will tig it back i can weld no need to replace it...
i know of course i wil need a fmic maf etc sorry i was just refering to the turbo prices to me seem way high for the gt28rs etc so is the jwe or jw something the best way to go when tuning the ecu ?

[TheS14project]

I have a friend here in Indiana who put down over 500whp on a SSAutoChrome Manifold, it was reworked and welded, but there was in no-way shape or form a ton of money involved in re-working it. Alot of people I know are rocking the Megan Manifolds and are very happy as well. If youve worked on cars, Im sure you or someone you know can rework a manifold.

Not saying that this is better then a FullRace mani, I am only saying that there are alot of people out there who have done this and have had positive results.

[DoriftoSlut]

Tell me what you guys would do in this situation...

You bust your knuckles till 3am the night before a track event. You align the car, you get all your tyres mounted, you change the diff oil, engine oil, and double check all vacuum lines and such, especially going to the wastegate.

Car is tip top.

You go to the track and you crack your manifold and your 350rwhp at 1.1 bar setup is now (negative) -4,000,000 rwhp at 10,000 rpm. You have NO POWER WHAT SO EVER. Sure, when you limp your car back home or to the shop, you can wait for an hour till everything cools down, take apart your whole turbo setup, haul it all off the car and investigate where the leak is on the manifold, weld it up, put it all back on, new gaskets and silicone, and then hope it won't happen again? Except you patched up real good the crack or pin hole, and next event, the crack just moves to the edge of the weld.


Its a flaw in design, material, AND craftsmanship. Re-welding only adresses the issue of craftsmanship. The material and design STILL SUCKS!





Anyways, all you fucking street "racers" powered by hopes and dreams can theorize and pray all you want, i've been there and done that, not gonna make the same mistake twice! I suggest a bottom-mount turbo for daily driving activities. Use the stock manifold, less to worry about and less attention if you get your hood popped. If you are hell bent on getting a top-mount setup i think its really the way to go to make 350+. But you SHOULD buy all the GOOD QUALITY PARTS!!!!

[c2autoinc]

I'd agree, spend the money on a good manifold. The pipes are constructed using a better grade material and a greater wall thickness. This is why they can warranty them against cracking.. because they know they aren't going to. I've had a custom one with a t3/to4e for over two years and it's my daily driver and has never failed me. I'm going with a new setup now and I'm parting it out and i bet money that I can STILL get more than what a new Megan costs for my used mani since the people who spend the extra money know that it's worth it.

[fromxtor]

JGS ftw!!!! Lance can weld up a SR manifold no problem, not only will it be quality american made. It wont cost a grand :)

[kove]

ohh and im not going to drift this car at all ....this will be a street racing car and drag car just for fun to tinker with i dont drift i chose the s13 mainly for power to weight ratio...i actually wanted a datsun 510 but i could not find one any where so i got the s13

[DoriftoSlut]

JGS ftw!!!! Lance can weld up a SR manifold no problem, not only will it be quality american made. It wont cost a grand :)
Yeah, JGS log manis are quality, but for overall hp, you can't beat a tubular mani. Of course if its between JGS Log or SSAC/Megan Tubular, i'd go with JGS Log.


As for the USA statement... um, Full-Race is made in Arizona. I dunno what you mean by that american made statement.

[yokotas13]

dont forget cams, headgasket, Rocker arm stopppers, fuel pump, adn the other stuff people said above.
Im putting a trust headgasket on this week in anticipation of power lol

[mydogsdrift]

I don't post on here...ever...but this one topic got to me. Have you ever looked at the dyno numbers and proof that the Full Race guys are showing? That's why you buy the better mani. You don't get that from that quality Megan racing stuff. I don't have Full Race...I have a PeakBoost mani(again made in Arizona) and it's totally worth the money. I'm talking 20HP+ differences just with a mani....it's worth it in the end.

Aside from the mani...you have a lot more research to do. Yes you can make that on stock internals...but do you want to? I know exactly where the stock HG is going to give out...and its just a tad shy of your goal...but it's not going to be reliable for long. Second...I hope you mean by cheap for 350 you were at least expecting 2 grand?

I think Doriftoslut was right on parts but at the same time you don't need all of that to get where your going. You might want too...again that list was made for reliability...but you don't have.

In the end youre a grown man and can pick and choose. When you do find what works for you please come back and let us know. I'd love to say I told you so...and I'd like just as much to hear you say you got your goal.

[Ian]

Full Race is quality that I have literally never seen unsurpassed.

I spoke w/ them at SEMA and they gave me the full rundown on their manifolds, in person, and I'm sold. If/When it's time for me to need one, I WILL bet getting a Full Race manifold.

[steve shadows]

Kove: sorry to say, but ppl do spend that extra couple hundred dollars for quicker spool time. That, and the fact that it bolts right onto your stock manifold. Most people upgrade to the Megan manifold anways but its the simplicity. Most 240 owners are crazed about drift rather than drag racing and top end power. Better response = easier control. Thats the mentality behind it.




can you be more detailed on what you mean by the turbos sucking?



Are you sure you're on the right forum here? Who buys those manifolds? Most of us go for the Megan $200 manifolds. I honestly have not heard a single case of them cracking from street cars to race cars. If it does... go buy another one and you still spend significantly less than a Full Race manifold.


sure lots of lag, horrible transient response, terrible efficency and cfm rate for the sr20det, the ve efficency range sucked ass, the turbo is either working properly at 10 psi (on say a corvette or a 13B with a bridgeport) or working way over the line and making power based on raw pressure (as in the case with honda kids pushing them to over 32psi-36psi for their race cars)...

Go with something efficent.

[gun]

ohh and im not going to drift this car at all ....this will be a street racing car and drag car just for fun to tinker with i dont drift i chose the s13 mainly for power to weight ratio...i actually wanted a datsun 510 but i could not find one any where so i got the s13

you will later find out that many zilvians hate street racingand street racers; like me. its gay, but i love drag.

[corey240]

you could pull off 350 hp off of using a gt3071r? or 28? a 3 in exhaust system, front mount,boost controller,z32 mafs,740cc injectors,and a good tune from enthalpy or somone like that.

[420sx]

whats going to be done with the car? drift? slap on s15 turbo w stock mani some injectors plus maf and piggy and call it a day. or get gt2871r and some more tunning, gasket and clutch and make over 300. it all depends on what ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH A CAR. no point doing it if its a daily driver/"little track" (which means flyby's or once a year drag strip run)

if its for drag anything less than t3 isnt worth the ends. its all about top end.

if for drift, you will be happy with s15 trip turbo or the discopotato.

you need to decide on what you going to do with the car. thats where bullshit ends.

[DoriftoSlut]

whats going to be done with the car? drift? slap on s15 turbo w stock mani some injectors plus maf and piggy and call it a day

Yeah and then blow it the fuck up. Piggyback on stock ECU, high boost on T28.... That equals engine death. I promise.

[420sx]

^well that or enthrapy. its just what u can afford. i plan on going s15 turbo with some tuning, but i doubt i will be running above 10 psi. i think 270ish is perfect for drift. hell u can drift 100hp corolla its all good, just skill that matters.