S13 Redtop into S14 Wiring Harness

[brainfood]

So I have searched everywhere and havnt found too much info other than a good write up. Only problem with the write up is he built a sub harness and I want to have one engine harness no band aids, I want it to be clean and done right (at least how I see it as correct). Okay as I see it these are the things that need to be modified on the sr harness and tied into the s14 chassis harnesses.

Fuel Pump Relay
ECU Relay (power)
ECU Backup (power)
IACV (Power)
Ignition Power and Coilpack
Wiper Motor and Amp
o2 Sensor
Instrument cluster

Now most of these are pretty straight forward connect wire a to wire b. My question is on the power plugs on the s13 sr f8 and f10 can I snip the wires and trace them back to the ecu and pull them out of the harness and just run the wires directly from the ka engine harness plugs to the s13 sr harness. The writeup I have seen uses a sub harness to transfer the power from ka interior harness all the way to the f8 and f10 plugs in the engine bay side of the s13 sr harness. I dont see a point of that its just adding extra wiring when the harness can be stripped of those wires since the are essentially running from interior to engine bay and then back to interior. Let me know if this is correct. Things like fuel pump relay from f8. I should be able to eliminate that black/pink wire completely from the sr harness and run it right from the sr ecu to the ka f3 plug. Same with ecu backup power, ignition power and coilpack power, iacv, o2 sensor, and all of the instrument cluster gauges. That is the bulk of my question my only other question is warning light outputs no one else seems to wire these but I saw on one diagram the pinouts can these be wire also or are they totally different from sr to ka, ie oil pressure light and alternator ect.

[mandoz85]

found this on google http://web.tampabay.rr.com/hsaini/PICS/HELPFUL/S13SRInstallationIntoS14.pdf#search=%22SR20%20HYBR IDS%22

[brainfood]

found this on google http://web.tampabay.rr.com/hsaini/PICS/HELPFUL/S13SRInstallationIntoS14.pdf#search=%22SR20%20HYBR IDS%22

Thanks, that is the write up where he used a sub harness. Great write up and whoever put in the effort to outline it, it was very helpfull. Keep in mind I have never done an engine swap before (pulled motors and swapped them) but wiring wise I have never done a rewire like this so even though I am pretty sure this is the correct way I want to be sure because I came to this conclusion by studying many many wiring diagrams for both s13 and s14 ka/sr's and delooming my stock and sr harness tracing wires. So I have done most of my homework just need some reassurance my way is the correct way.

[nrg]

My question is on the power plugs on the s13 sr f8 and f10 can I snip the wires and trace them back to the ecu and pull them out of the harness and just run the wires directly from the ka engine harness plugs to the s13 sr harness. The writeup I have seen uses a sub harness to transfer the power from ka interior harness all the way to the f8 and f10 plugs in the engine bay side of the s13 sr harness.

If you look at the link posted. It seems like he TAP into those two harness so he can run that harness with an S13 chassi? What I did was I cut the ends from those two harness, pulled it from the engine harness loom and ran it right next to the ecu where the F3 (s14 USDM) plug would be. The only extra sub harness I ran is to the windshield amp and wiper motor. My whole harness looks clean. it runs from the firewall to the back end of the motor. there's no other harness hanging next to the fender like the s13. I deloom, shorten, hidden, my whole engine harness.

[brainfood]

My question is on the power plugs on the s13 sr f8 and f10 can I snip the wires and trace them back to the ecu and pull them out of the harness and just run the wires directly from the ka engine harness plugs to the s13 sr harness. The writeup I have seen uses a sub harness to transfer the power from ka interior harness all the way to the f8 and f10 plugs in the engine bay side of the s13 sr harness.

If you look at the link posted. It seems like he TAP into those two harness so he can run that harness with an S13 chassi? What I did was I cut the ends from those two harness, pulled it from the engine harness loom and ran it right next to the ecu where the F3 (s14 USDM) plug would be. The only extra sub harness I ran is to the windshield amp and wiper motor. My whole harness looks clean. it runs from the firewall to the back end of the motor. there's no other harness hanging next to the fender like the s13. I deloom, shorten, hidden, my whole engine harness.

Okay thats whay I figured I deloomed already and was just going to cut and shorten the wires and run them directly to f3 and then run wires for the wiper motor and amp in the same harness just re-loom them into the sr harness.

[brainfood]

Anyone one else have an opinion just want to make sure I am right before I hack up the harness. I am a little hesitant about the power thats the only thing I am worried about everything else is pretty straight forward.
And also what wires are un-needed I want to clean up the harness while I have it apart. I am taking off the stock egr and would like to remove the factory boost solenoid but I am not sure which wires these are. Also on the stock boost solenoid assembly there are 2 solenoids one that has the elextrical connector I am guessing is the boost solenoid the other is??? I have plenty of guesses but if someone could tell me or post a stock sr20det redtop vacuum diagram I could figure it out myself.

[nrg]

all the small sensor and service plugs can be removed. boost solenoid should be removed too. Anything that isn't going to the motor can be removed. temp, knock, maf, cas, iacv, tps, coil pack, ignitor, o2, etc. shouldn't be removed.

Vacuum is pretty easy. from the throttle body, there's 3 nipples, two top, one bottom. the large top goes to FPR (you can tap boost gauge here too), the second top goes to BOV, Plug up the bottom one. The wastegate goes to the cold pipe nipple. that's pretty much it.

[Gramentz]

The above link is the best site I found while doing my swap. It can be intimidating when you hack up the harness and have all of the wires bare and exposed. By the time you get half way done with it, you will learn which plugs go where, and which ones can go. For the ones that can go, (what I did), was trace the wire as close to the ECU plug as possible before cutting it. A few of the wires from the "extra un-needed" plugs tap into other wires of the same color. You can also trace the ignitor chip wires and move them closer to the ecu plug so that they are inside the car. Seriously though, once the harness is bare and you follow the wires from each plug, it's cake.

Just make sure you solder.

[nismo_kings13]

is thier not a company that makes premaid harness? heavythrottle.com might put one together for you make it look like its stock like that. im having same little thing going on just sold my s13 now im buying s14 body and i dont like the wireing im trying to have one made if i find one ill give you link i havnt tryed heavythrottle.com yet but they put the one for my s13 together and it looked stock and all blue and cool might try them.

[brainfood]

heh it is intimidating when you have both harnesses out and deloomed and wires everywhere and about 100 different wiring diagrams. I think I have it all figured out I have done piggy back installs and stereo installs and I have some basic auto electrical schooling so I am not too worried about the implementation and I figured it out just wanted to be on the safe side and make sure I wasnt tripping. I didnt want to send the harnesses out since time is a factor and I didnt want to spend the money on something I am more than capable of doing. It will be good experience also, thanks for the idea about moving the ignitor chip I may do that. Also where can I get shielded wire for the maf and o2 extension? I am going go pick up a new tip for soldering iron and solder and a sponge so I will probably start working on it tonight or tommorow. I will post pics and let everyone know how it goes. I wrote out all the wires color and plug and where they have to go so I have a quick reference guide when doing it I counted 20 wires I think that need to be re-routed and then the maf and o2 extension and the extra wires for the wiper motor and amp. So should take a little bit of time but I will get it done. Thanks for all the help from everyone that posted!

[Gramentz]

I'm glad you decided to do it yourself. I had never done a wiring harness before this one, and it was really easy.. Also, you can take a little bit more time and work on the harness when it's in the engine bay to hide or run a lot of the wires underneath the intake manifold runners so they are out of view..

[nrg]

for the shielded wire, open the yellow pages and look up "electronic". there should be stores in your area that specialize in like PCB/computer electronics. There's one in my area and has EVERYTHING!! hah

[nissan_blood]

ok ive been looking at prices on this and im just gonna do it my self guy tryed charge me $350 to do it...........i got a question though do i connect the stuff off the s13 sr20 harness to the s14 ka harness or other way arround kinda stuck on this. starting to understand slowly.. thanks guys

[Gramentz]

What? Where did you come from?

Use the SR harness with those mentioned plugs from s14 harness.

[brainfood]

I am going to pull the wires I need for the maf and o2 extension out of the ka harness then I dont have to drive around looking for wires or pay for them since the harness is trash anyway.

[nissan_blood]

thanks makes sence now.....

[brainfood]

I worked on the harness today. Got about 80% done. Stripped the harness rewired all the power plugs so everything is in the passenger compartment and wired with the s14 ecu relay and f3 plug. Stripped out the boost control solenoid wires and the acv iav wires??? Not sure but I was told you dont use them they are on the same thing as the stock boost solenoid. Just need to wire the instrument cluster and then put the harness on the motor to make final measurements for maf and o2 and make sure I am happy how everything is run and then reloom. Its pretty easy I am gonna double check everything and make sure it is correct. I used the stock wiring off the ka harness for the wiper just kept it all hooked up like stock on the f3 plug so I cut the harness and ran it through the stock sr firewall grommet and then re-attached it to the ka f3 plug so the should work like stock. Probably finish up the instrument cluster tommorow and then put it on the motor this weekend to make sure its all good and then reloom and cross my fingers be done with it.

To help anyone that is looking to do it I just cut the 2 stock power connectors off on the s13 sr harness just like you would if you were wiring for s13 to s13 but instead of splicing the ka s13 power harness on I stripped those wires all the way back to the ecu and some from the t's in the harness and ran them all through the stock firewall grommet so I had the power plugs in the passenger compartment. Then just wired it to the stock s14 ka plugs (f3 and ecu relay harness).

[The Riot Hero]

www.camel-towing.com

[brainfood]

www.camel-towing.com

Glad the same write up that I found before I even posted and said wasnt how I wanted to do it has been posted in this thread at least 3 times??

[brainfood]

One more question I have all the interior stuff wired, wiper motor ran into the stock sr harness and it all cleaned up and looking good. But whats up with the warning lights? do I need to wire them I would like oil pressure warning light but cant find the wires.

[brainfood]

Which speedo sensor did you use? Does the stock sr one read correctly with the s14 usdm speedo? it plugs in just wondering if it reads correctly. The ka s14 speedo sensor doesnt bolt onto the sr tranny I tried that.

[nrg]

jap S13 sr speedo will not work with the S14 gauge cluster. of course the s14 speedo sensor doesn't work. your tranny is from an s13 sr. you need to get MANUAL (5speed) speed sensor from s13 KA. if you wired up the F3 plug with the dash plug from s13 harness. then all the warrning lights should work fine.

[Gramentz]

my s14 ka speed sensor bolted right into the sr tranny....

[nrg]

actually, now that you think of it. i do have s14 KA speedo on my s13 sr tranny.
s14 KA speedo for s14 usdm gauge cluster. Manual and automatic speedo are different sizes.

[brainfood]

ahh I have auto speedo, car was originally auto

[g6civcx]

The auto and manual speedometers are the same. It's the Vehicle Speed Sensors (VSS) that are different.

I know it's confusing as hell. Stay tuned for my master writeup which will address this problem with a very elegant solution.

For now you have to use the same generation VSS as the gearbox, i.e. S13 VSS on S13 gearbox regardless if it's SR or KA. Likewise for S14, i.e. S14 VSS on S14 gearbox regardless if it's SR or KA.

Just try to do the best you can for now, and I'll post up once I have concrete information on the speedometer recalibration unit that will allow you to use any speedometer on any speed sensor. Stay tuned.

[brainfood]

The auto and manual speedometers are the same. It's the Vehicle Speed Sensors (VSS) that are different.

I know it's confusing as hell. Stay tuned for my master writeup which will address this problem with a very elegant solution.

For now you have to use the same generation VSS as the gearbox, i.e. S13 VSS on S13 gearbox regardless if it's SR or KA. Likewise for S14, i.e. S14 VSS on S14 gearbox regardless if it's SR or KA.

Just try to do the best you can for now, and I'll post up once I have concrete information on the speedometer recalibration unit that will allow you to use any speedometer on any speed sensor. Stay tuned.


So s13 speedo is what I need? I have s13 trans in s14 and the above info was use an s14 manual trans speedo sensor for s13 sr trans.

[TokyoNights]

Incase you didnt allready know remember to swap the s14 ka temp sensor with the redtop one.

[g6civcx]

So s13 speedo is what I need? I have s13 trans in s14 and the above info was use an s14 manual trans speedo sensor for s13 sr trans.

I can't give you detailed info on the S14 since I only have access to S13s here. If you have access to one, compare an S14 VSS to your existing S13 VSS. I believe that the S14 uses pinion gear and the mounting radius is slightly different from the S13.

If your S14 VSS fits, then you're good to go. Others have said that it would, but I cannot confirm for you. Sorry.

If not, you have to just hook it as you have it for now and live it with it until I come up with something better for you.

[brainfood]

Incase you didnt allready know remember to swap the s14 ka temp sensor with the redtop one.


Its located on the thermostat housing?

[TokyoNights]

no, on the intake mani right next to where the rad hose clamps too

[brainfood]

Yeah I found it today is it the 2 prong or single prong sensor? Also Are the tranny harness plugs on the sr engine harness?? I think it is the grey plug f11 on ka trans harness. and also there is a black plug on the ka trans harness that I think might go into the underhood fuse box. I have everything in and hooked up just need to put the trans harness in. Problem is my old chassis with the ka and all the parts I need to pull is in one place and the new car with the new motor and all the parts installed is at a different place :) So now I only have one day a week to work on it and need to finish on sat. so I pulled the tranny harness off the ka and will take it on sat. I just need to make sure it will plug in and the starter will work with the ignition switch like it should.

[nrg]

The auto and manual speedometers are the same. It's the Vehicle Speed Sensors (VSS) that are different.

I know it's confusing as hell. Stay tuned for my master writeup which will address this problem with a very elegant solution.

For now you have to use the same generation VSS as the gearbox, i.e. S13 VSS on S13 gearbox regardless if it's SR or KA. Likewise for S14, i.e. S14 VSS on S14 gearbox regardless if it's SR or KA.


Auto and manual speedo are not the same. Well the size isn't the Auto is about 1mm larger than the manual. Also the s13 and s14 are both different, it's the signal voltage IIRC. either that or the size of the gear. you can search this forum for many problems regarding this. There's a thread where someone used a s14 KA speedo on their tranny after they swap in 95 ka into their s13. the speed gauge was reading all wrong.

manual speedo for manual tranny; auto speedo for auto tranny.
s13 speedo for s13 gauge cluster; s14 speedo for s14 gauge cluster.

[brainfood]

Auto and manual speedo are not the same. Well the size isn't the Auto is about 1mm larger than the manual. Also the s13 and s14 are both different, it's the signal voltage IIRC. either that or the size of the gear. you can search this forum for many problems regarding this. There's a thread where someone used a s14 KA speedo on their tranny after they swap in 95 ka into their s13. the speed gauge was reading all wrong.

manual speedo for manual tranny; auto speedo for auto tranny.
s13 speedo for s13 gauge cluster; s14 speedo for s14 gauge cluster.


Yeah I got that, looking for an s14 manual speedo since my old s14 had an s13 trans so the speedo hasnt worked for over 2 years and the new car has an s13 sr trans hence the s13 sr speedo. If I find one for a decent price great I will have a speedo if not and I go another 2+ years with no speedo not the end of the world. Not going to spend $120 on a new one thats for sure.

Onto the more pressing matter I traced the wires in the factory service manual for the starter and alternator and they look like they plug into the body harness since I have the stock unmodified body harness in the car should be no issue here. Only concern is will the s13 engine harness to trans harness conector match up with no problems? ie pinouts the same or do I need to cut it and wire the ka plug into the sr harness.

[g6civcx]

Auto and manual speedo are not the same. Well the size isn't the Auto is about 1mm larger than the manual. Also the s13 and s14 are both different, it's the signal voltage IIRC. either that or the size of the gear. you can search this forum for many problems regarding this. There's a thread where someone used a s14 KA speedo on their tranny after they swap in 95 ka into their s13. the speed gauge was reading all wrong.

manual speedo for manual tranny; auto speedo for auto tranny.
s13 speedo for s13 gauge cluster; s14 speedo for s14 gauge cluster.

I'm going into Russ mode so please pardon me :axe:

No, no, no, no. I don't know why I bother typing because it's not like anybody reads this. :blah:

One more time, from the top. Please pay very close attention to what I'm saying.

Auto and manual speedo are not the same. Well the size isn't the Auto is about 1mm larger than the manual.

The speedometer unit itself is the same. The speedometer is the gauge you see in the dash. This unit is the same across all S13 regardless if it's auto or manual. There is slight difference between single and twin cam, but it reads the same.

How do I know this? I have both a single cam 5-speed speedometer and an auto twin cam auto speedometer. They both read the same. I CAN CONFIRM THIS SO PLEASE DON'T SAY IT AGAIN.

What is 1mm larger, the speedometer or the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS)? The VSS is different from auto to manual. That has been established a thousand times by Russ.

Also the s13 and s14 are both different, it's the signal voltage IIRC. either that or the size of the gear.

What is different between S13 and S14, speedo or VSS? Please be clear. It's obvious that the speedo is different just by looking at it. The VSS swaps in if it's a manual to manual swap.

There is no difference in signal voltage. Nissan uses a 2-wire inductive coil pickup. The VSS generates a pulse signal based on propeller shaft rotation speed. There is slight variation between the VSS signal and what the speedometer is calibrated to display. This is what the problem is all about.

you can search this forum for many problems regarding this. There's a thread where someone used a s14 KA speedo on their tranny after they swap in 95 ka into their s13. the speed gauge was reading all wrong.

This forum right now is so jumbled it's hard to know what's right or wrong. If the speedo matches the gearbox, why would the gauge be wrong?


Again, I'm working on this. I will post the master writeup that will clear up all the confusion. It's not hard. People just are misinformed.

No hard feelings, nrg. It's just that this issue comes up daily, and it's not very clear so it's nobody's fault. That's why I'm doing something about. Just sit tight and I'll update everybody.

[TokyoNights]

Yeah I found it today is it the 2 prong or single prong sensor? Also Are the tranny harness plugs on the sr engine harness??
Single prong

I used the KA lower harness(5speed) just swapped the ka trans sensors ito the sr trans and left the extra plugs dangling
the tranny harness plugs are not on the engine harness its seperate(mabie on a auto they are , I dont remember)

[brainfood]

Single prong

I used the KA lower harness(5speed) just swapped the ka trans sensors ito the sr trans and left the extra plugs dangling
the tranny harness plugs are not on the engine harness its seperate(mabie on a auto they are , I dont remember)


thanks. There is a grey and black plug on one end of the tranny harness. the 2 black ones plug into the body harness and then the grey one plugs into the engine harness and sends vss signal and whatever sensor signals to the ecu or instrument cluster. As far as I can tell anyway.

[g6civcx]

This is the VSS harness. It's a wire plug with Yellow/Black and Yellow/Blue. It sits on a little metal bracket that holds some of the other gearbox sensors.

I took a picture for you. The picture is huge so click on the link to see it:

http://g6civcx.angryhosting.com/VSS/VSS1.JPG
http://g6civcx.angryhosting.com/VSS/VSS2.JPG

This is the harness on the other side. It runs along with the engine harness and meets up with the body harness at the fusebox near the battery.

http://g6civcx.angryhosting.com/VSS/VSS5.JPG


If you have any specific questions let me know.

[nrg]

not sure why you're going hostile on me. when i said speedo, i mean Vehicle Speed Sensor. :)
i know the sohc and dohc speed meters read the same. have one on my little brother's car right now with his sr swap.

[brainfood]

I just wanted to update everyone. Car started first try wiring worked out perfect. Everything seems to work I have only driven the car about 5 miles. VSS from the s13 redtop sr seems to read fine on my s14 gauge cluster. Might be a little off I will check it when I am driving the car. But at least I have something to go off of now even if it is off I had no speedo before. Thanks for the help on this thread!

[g6civcx]

not sure why you're going hostile on me. when i said speedo, i mean Vehicle Speed Sensor. :)
i know the sohc and dohc speed meters read the same. have one on my little brother's car right now with his sr swap.


Sorry, man. I was trying to be Russ while he's away. How did I do? :D