My lame dyno day..

[NemeGuero]

1. First, the guy didn’t know he was going to be tuning my car on the dyno even though I specified that when I called each time.

2. He didn’t recognize the software base system, and needed Bill’s write-up to figure out the BikiSoft layout. (its like hondata or rom burning, like the similar style of tuning maps)

3. When we were trying to install Bikisoft on his computer, I couldn’t get the USB drivers to work.

4. So then we had to switch to my laptop (which sucks and is slow which for sucks for realtime)

5. Then he couldn’t figure out how to upload the maps.

6. So when I showed him how.. and he started changing map values.. nothing was happening to the actual AFRs. Then he didn’t realize that bikisoft doesn’t have real time update and you have to upload the maps each time.

7. So like an hour and a half later, he finally starts figuring it out.. it still went extremely lean at 2k RPMs under load. Even when he was dumping more fuel in.. the AFRs weren’t changing. I was watching him increase the value for the VE correction tables.. and it was still hitting lean.

8. 2-2.5 hrs into the day, he’s like.. I don’t think I can do this.. I start thinking about how much money I’m out and for a whole lot of nothing..

9. I ask him if we could at least get a dyno pull out of it to get some HP and TQ readings, but he said.. “its your car and all, but I wouldn’t want to do it.”.. “Don’t boost it”.. I got crushed when he said that.

10. The one nice thing of the day was that he only charged me for diagnostics ($100/hr) instead of dyno tuning time ($180/hr).. AND, he only charged me for one hour.. I shook his hand.

Overall wasn't too bad. Inspired me to get a new wideband that HAS datalogging capabilities and doing some pulls and consult logs and seeing if I can't fix the maps myself..

[undesiredshoe]

How come you didnt tune it and let him run it on the dyno?

[kandyflip445]

Damn, that sucks. At least you didn't get raped on the bill.

[slider2828]

Damn bro you in oaktown? Ima in San leandro.... bring it by maybe I can help... I'll pm yah....

[johngriff]

Get an LM1.

Wow, rom tunning sounds very.... annoying?

Can a Biki Rom correct dwell times to fully utilize better coils like the LS1?

Two Step?

Boost control?

Oh and your USB port problem. Let me guess.. you were using a serial 9 pin to USB converter? That is a MSW XP skills issue. SEARCH in WINDOWS for "device manager", then set the com ports of the software, and the USB device to the same. Unless you are using a cheap 9 pin to USB which was NOT bundled with software, in which case.. you are up a creek.

Keep me posted on your car.. i want to see how it turns out!

John

[sw20>>s14]

damn boy, you passed up a track event with me for that? boo! hope your next session yields more results...

and stop being a power monger

[mr_240sx]

well sry to hear about the crappy day..... make sure you go to a trustworth shop tha tknows what they are doing next time!

[NemeGuero]

How come you didnt tune it and let him run it on the dyno?

I don't have a wideband with datalogging so its hard to do myself. Plus, before now.. I really didn't know how to do it. Watching him and making a few posts on bikirom.com and talking with BillKlineVT helped me to where I think i am ready to attempt it myself.

Damn, that sucks. At least you didn't get raped on the bill.

Word.. I woulda slit my wrists right there if he had charged me $180/hr for 3 hrs..

Damn bro you in oaktown? Ima in San leandro.... bring it by maybe I can help... I'll pm yah....

I got your PM, I'm out of town this weekend but I'll hit you up when I get back. Do you have a wideband with datalogging? I'm trying to find a good one to buy.

Get an LM1.

Wow, rom tunning sounds very.... annoying?

Can a Biki Rom correct dwell times to fully utilize better coils like the LS1?

Two Step?

Boost control?

Oh and your USB port problem. Let me guess.. you were using a serial 9 pin to USB converter? That is a MSW XP skills issue. SEARCH in WINDOWS for "device manager", then set the com ports of the software, and the USB device to the same. Unless you are using a cheap 9 pin to USB which was NOT bundled with software, in which case.. you are up a creek.

Keep me posted on your car.. i want to see how it turns out!

John
Rom tuning is kinda annoying.. but its $250 for a completely adjustable ECU.
Hard to argue with..

You selling an LM1?
Biki WILL have all kinds of cool features.. software is still in the early stages is all..
The USB driver problem was me just forgetting how I did it when I installed it on my laptop.. forgot to "find the drivers" for the "new hardware"..

For sure, I'll keep updating if progress is made.

I"M NOT A POWER MONGER! I want it to run right.. that's all!!

well sry to hear about the crappy day..... make sure you go to a trustworth shop tha tknows what they are doing next time!

They were a trustworthy shop.. i was referred to them by a friend of mine who had an excellent experience.. It was just bad luck I guess..





SO! Who's got a wideband with datalogging they want to sell me?!

[ManoNegra]

Man Neme, sucks about you crappy day but it could have been worse. Least nothing broke and you learned something in the process.

[Xren17]

It doesn't sound at all that it's the shop fault since only a few outside of the nissan community are aware of it, expecting the shop to know how to tune with it is a bit of a stretch. Anyways, goodluck and I'm very interested in how things progress for you since I'm debating right now between, biki, enthaphy, emange ultimate, AEM or megasquirt.

[johngriff]

Just get it off of innovatives website. A wideband is not one of those things you want to purchase used. You DO want the new sensor. I think the latest update of the LM-1 is about $350, and you will pay another $10 for the rpm cable.

The largest problem i see with the biki Rom, from what you said, is the inability to make changes in real time. I got steves car running in 1 hour 50 mins of street tunning.

This is where Haltech is >Biki by far. I made a map from scratch for, 810cc injectors, gt40/t3 hybrid, stock coils, FMIC HKS 264 Step 2(maybe 3) cams. We were spinning the tires on drag radials, in third gear on the freeway.

We used the Haltech E8 with the innovative LM-1 dumping back into the haltech, then data Logging through the haltech.

When you get your wideband, give me a ring and i'll give you some pointers on getting started doing a street tune.

john

[GlacierFreeze]

Yeah, you can't really knock him for not being able to figure out exactly how to use a program considering it was the first time he has ever seen it (goes for all computer apps really). And if you decide to tune it yourself, besides dumping more fuel in there, don't forget to pull some timing. Good luck!

[ispypsi]

sorry to hear mang. you have a KA-T i assume?

the biki isnt bad as u know once u figure it out. i recommend the lm1 or the zeitronix. my brother ran the zeitronix and bikirom on his SR and then being able to see the datalogging vs the biki values helped him tune it pretty well on the street, for not being a pro tuner. biggest thing on the street is to be careful and to just go slow with the changes. its tedious, but it works best to tackle it one at a time.

assuming you have a KA-T, hit up ka-t.org, theres a few guys with bikiroms that u might be able to have them send u a basemap or something so u can at least drive it and get a look at what the values are like.

[steve shadows]

1. why are you wasting your time with bikirom?

2. At least find someone who for sure knows how to tune and navigate it before risking your entire engine.

3.IMO a power fc would have been a better investment if your nto ready for a full standalone.

4.If you took your car anywhere but straight home (ie track) you would have overheated the engine or possibly blown the ring lands on your motor. 16:1 is dangerous territory for turbo motors, 18 is just insane and 20 is like instant death.

5. Be careful man, sounds like you have more problems that just a "lame" dyno day.

[steve shadows]

damn boy, you passed up a track event with me for that? boo! hope your next session yields more results...

and stop being a power monger


what the hell did you want him to do blow his horrbly mis tuned motor?

anyone ever heard of track prep?

I higly doubt hes a power monger, me on the other hand Is gots problems:hahano:

[GlacierFreeze]

Yeah, whenever I turbo my car, I'll probably trailer it to a dyno to get it tuned before I even put it in first gear haha.

[SkeetFaceJeff]

Im suprised he even decided to work with the bikirom setup. Thats a lot of liability on his hands. He should have just rented you dyno time and let you mess with the laptop and maybe gave you some helpful suggestions. Nissan Datascan has wideband logging.

[steve shadows]

skeetface?

semen face

i heard about this, but it still seems well gay

[GlacierFreeze]

Haha terrible user name lol.....

[BigVinnie]

Damn all that hard work and money you made this last weekend working for me all went down the pooper. Never let dyno guys tune your car fact is they know jackshit from the next guy.

[punxva]

yea that sucks, im sure with the better wideband with datalogging u can make a better tune yourself if u do a little bit more research like u said, but god damn at least he didnt charge u for the 3 hours of dyno time, or else that woulda sucked even more. I'd just try to understand the tuning software and maps a little better and try it on the dyno again, and maybe get better results than this time, it's all about the learning experience.

[ispypsi]

1. why are you wasting your time with bikirom?

2. At least find someone who for sure knows how to tune and navigate it before risking your entire engine.

3.IMO a power fc would have been a better investment if your nto ready for a full standalone.

4.If you took your car anywhere but straight home (ie track) you would have overheated the engine or possibly blown the ring lands on your motor. 16:1 is dangerous territory for turbo motors, 18 is just insane and 20 is like instant death.

5. Be careful man, sounds like you have more problems that just a "lame" dyno day.


1. it's not all that bad. the premise and functionality is decent, but i think it was released under pressure from people who wanted it before it was really in "final" ready stages (the 2 step, boost control, etc stuff doesnt work yet, or didn't when it came out) it's just not for everyone.

2. definitely. main reason i support nissan S chassis specific tuners, hybriddynamics, enthalpy, martin @ xat, etc. granted any honda/domestic/whatever tuner with experience and knowledge can tune any car he wants, i like to have the tuner know what he's in store for, knows the software already, knows what the general tune will look like in his head when i get strapped down. this way, it also minimizes time on the dyno for those who dont pay flat rate.

3. KA = no power fc. but if there was one for KA, i'd jump all over it (if it wasd -jetro available), being its cheaper than aem.

4. i run anywhere between 14.5-16.3 cruising. mostly in the 15's. it works, great gas mileage, doesn't get overheated at all (not by water temps, dont know on egt's). i would hope he's not 16:1 under boost, but the way he was talking made me think he wasnt/shouldnt drive it in boost anyways (per his "tuner").

5. hehe. KA's and non-good tunes last about 10 minutes :P

[NemeGuero]

it was the first time he has ever seen it (goes for all computer apps really). And if you decide to tune it yourself, besides dumping more fuel in there, don't forget to pull some timing. Good luck!

The timing maps are good actually. I got them from a friend with a similar setup.. so I can use these for now until I can figure out how to adjust the timing myself optimally.

sorry to hear mang. you have a KA-T i assume?

the biki isnt bad as u know once u figure it out. i recommend the lm1 or the zeitronix. my brother ran the zeitronix and bikirom on his SR and then being able to see the datalogging vs the biki values helped him tune it pretty well on the street, for not being a pro tuner. biggest thing on the street is to be careful and to just go slow with the changes. its tedious, but it works best to tackle it one at a time.

assuming you have a KA-T, hit up ka-t.org, theres a few guys with bikiroms that u might be able to have them send u a basemap or something so u can at least drive it and get a look at what the values are like.

Yah, I'm slowly getting more familiar with it. I'm gonna get this handled in a few weeks.. Or at least get started in the right direction.

I do talk with BillKline about the biki. I'm registered on both Bikirom and ka-t.org forums. thanks for the wideband tips.

1. why are you wasting your time with bikirom?

2. At least find someone who for sure knows how to tune and navigate it before risking your entire engine.

3.IMO a power fc would have been a better investment if your nto ready for a full standalone.

4.If you took your car anywhere but straight home (ie track) you would have overheated the engine or possibly blown the ring lands on your motor. 16:1 is dangerous territory for turbo motors, 18 is just insane and 20 is like instant death.

5. Be careful man, sounds like you have more problems that just a "lame" dyno day.

1. 'cuz it was cheap and I have help with it.
2. Yah, well I didn't think it would be that complicated. I called ahead and they said to just bring in the software.
3. I didn't want a power fc, I researched.. and what makes you think I'm not ready?
4. It wasn't 16 in boost. and I've been driving my car everywhere, so you'e wrong, temps are fine. I monitor them with BIkirom in realtime.
5. Umm, ok.

what the hell did you want him to do blow his horrbly mis tuned motor?

anyone ever heard of track prep?

I higly doubt hes a power monger, me on the other hand Is gots problems:hahano:

he's a friend.. he's teasing. And yes he's heard of track prep, he tracks often.
and I may just be a power monger..
RPSPORTS, John, you're a cool guy, but the other guy needs to ease up.





I have basemaps from BillKline, his set-up is extremely similar to mine.. I don't know why I was hitting that lean spot using his maps. I'm not an idiot, I wouldn't drive the car without his map and my own wideband to monitor the AFRs. I have a plxm300 incapable of datalogging. Yes, it was my mistake for putting as much faith as I did in an experienced tuner. Its not above me to figure out the bikirom..

[ispypsi]

i have the plx and i rough tuned my s-afc and hacked mafs long ago. it takes a good eye or 2 people lol.

what setup are you running. i know bill runs the gt2871r, are you t2 or top mount? dont know where your lean spot is but if it's coming into boost or midrange, perhaps his turbo kicks differently than yours. i think boost controller might have an effect too...where some roll into it smoothly (just line straight to wg so it opens as u go) or some boost controllers that hold the wg shut til you hit X psi and BAM! load of boost lol. could have some effects. everything is different even on similar motors, but best of luck to ya sir.

[shayrgob240]

that sucks man

[steve shadows]

he's a friend.. he's teasing. And yes he's heard of track prep, he tracks often.
and I may just be a power monger..
RPSPORTS, John, you're a cool guy, but the other guy needs to ease up.





I have basemaps from BillKline, his set-up is extremely similar to mine.. I don't know why I was hitting that lean spot using his maps. I'm not an idiot, I wouldn't drive the car without his map and my own wideband to monitor the AFRs. I have a plxm300 incapable of datalogging. Yes, it was my mistake for putting as much faith as I did in an experienced tuner. Its not above me to figure out the bikirom..

tuff love hurts, bikirome sounds like bukkake mess.

just me .02 cents.

[BigVinnie]

3. KA = no power fc. but if there was one for KA, i'd jump all over it (if it wasd -jetro available), being its cheaper than aem.



Really you can't rig a power FC to run on KA? Better make a correction before some one blasts you for that one....

bikirome sounds like bukkake mess.

just me .02 cents.

The full biki version isn't even completed yet. There is lots of programming that needs to be finished. When it is done it will be the perfect standalone to OEM replacement.

And about the power FC it's backwards engineering just like haltech or any other standalone system and it cost a grip to own, (not every one is rich, and the fact is standalones should't cost more than $500 at the most anyways). Anyone that has burned chips would rather go with a biki just for it's pure simplicity. Biki functions just as it should as eccs functionality all on one daughter board, from what I understand a very affordable alternative even for people that have VH41DE, and VH45DE OBD1 ecu's. I mean for under $300 it's a deal.

[johngriff]

Yeah, steve is a dick, but he is right about the tough love, we are in that been there done that phase now, we f'd around with burned chips and afc's for a good couple years, even squeezed some good times out of them.

Ok, power fc? Throw it over a bridge. I own them, use them, tune them. Nightmare! Yes it is backwards engineered.

Haltech.. err not quite. Haltech is a ground up ems system. They are by far the best quality with the most features out right now. If AEM was greater i would say so, but so far cant stand and deliver. What put us over the edge from rom tune land to Haltech was a couple key things.. most of them money.

Safc II was like 400 new when we purchased it.
AVC-R was around 450-500
Tuned ecu 300.. after tuned ecu (x3).
Innovative LM1 $350

Blown engines over 4 seasons of Competition (3 @ $750)
Our time invested into constantly tunning, testing harness, setting and resetting safc, avcr, TPS. (uncalculable).

Haltech E8 with boost controller, 3 bar map, and Wideband South of $2000

In the end it was the trade off that needed to be made. Aside from saving us a rediculous amount of time, the gains in raw tourqe alone are amazing. Faster on pump gas now, then race gas then.....

LOL, i'll stop, but i do feel your pain.

The last thing that is bugging me is this. Can you calibrate the injectors? Lag time, impedence, size?

This is why.. a weird problem i ran into with the power fc, was even after having XS engineering use the Power Excel Software on the power fc to go from 370cc's to 550cc's, the injector duty time feedback was still displaying for 370cc's.

Will the biki rom do the same? It is the tunning for afr thing against ve. When tunning using only injector MS time, you know the minimum and maximum effective injector usage, as stated by the manufacture.. i never really trusted that dodgy inj duty time feedback... lol.

[NemeGuero]

Yes you set injector size.

Ispypsi: my setup is a top mount t3/t4..
My lean spot is in 2k range under ~3/4 throttle.. but nothing in the map indicates a lean condition. It has a target AFR of 14 and a VE correction just the same as the cells in the column before it.
Yah, I can't make any sense of the PLX.. Guess I'm investing in an LM1.

[BigVinnie]

The last thing that is bugging me is this. Can you calibrate the injectors? Lag time, impedence, size?

This is why.. a weird problem i ran into with the power fc, was even after having XS engineering use the Power Excel Software on the power fc to go from 370cc's to 550cc's, the injector duty time feedback was still displaying for 370cc's.

Will the biki rom do the same?

Yes you set injector size.



I don't think Johngriff has read Bills right up on the Biki. He made it so well it should be stickied in this forum.... The only thing that remains the same is impedance I believe.
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/bkline/docs/BikiROM.pdf

[NemeGuero]

Thanks Vince.

[BigVinnie]

Thanks Vince.
No problem pimpin..
Down to make some cash next weekend? Sorry for the thread jack

[NemeGuero]

Yah, I definitely am.. Need to buy an LM1.. haha
Plus, I like the muscle work.

[infinitexsound]

what about me? i could sure use some flow......

[johngriff]

i am reading it, thnx for the link.

[BigVinnie]

thnx for the link.

No problem, it's a great right up, and very simplified for users. Thank Bill, not me, I defenitely couldn't of spent the time on an indepth right up.
But if he included VH41de, and VH45de ecu's now that would be great.
Bill knows his stuff especially since he knows alot of the programing for OBD2, read alot of his posts up in the eccs forums, defenitely good stuff.
Me I'm a simpleton OBD1 for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what about me? i could sure use some flow......

Evan, You, and I all need to have a few drinks at the bar before your hired.. Then it's all legit.....

[sohc_mshue]

I spent a good portion of last night researching bikirom and fiddling with the software. Coming from the perspective of somebody who tunes a lot of hondas using similar software i think this program has great potential. It has a lot of great features and i'm sure in the near future there will be many more. You really cant beat the price on it either and its way better than having to spend a bunch of money for a "pretuned" ecu like enthalpy where your not even sure if the tune is optimal for your setup.