KA-T Setup Review

[punxva]

Well i just went to a local tuning shop and they kinda gave me answers that i wasnt looking for, here's what ive got...

A stock rebuilt ka24det with 6,000 miles on it, fidanza flywheel, centerforce stage 2 clutch, hks hi-power 80mm exhaust, walbro fuel pump, high flow cat, now what ive got sitting in my room waiting to be installed...

SAFC2, Sard 550CC injectors (will these be too big? i got them as a trade so i didnt really have a choice, and was hoping i could control them with the safc), brand new Garrett GT28R BB turbo, greddy type s, piping, intercooler, and looking to get a SSAC or X02 bottom mount.

My question is, is this a safe setup to make about 250 to the wheels, for a very streetable DD. The shop was talking like 50% methonal and water injection and emanage and all this stuff that i dont have money for.

[tchenku]

the shop's trying to scam you! with what you have and pump gas with low boost will make 250 or more hp. your injectors are fine for now. if you're gonna up the boost later, sell them and get 740cc injectors.

[punxva]

haha u know whats funny, is i traded 740's for these :) so if i get a wideband do u think ill be good tuning it myself? Also because this is a stock rebuild.

[Ninjabread]

There is a guy who is pushing out 400+ out of a old ass stock ka (150k miles at least) so you'll be just fine running 10-12 psi if you want to be analy safe.

[punxva]

kk, now which wideband should i run?

[punxva]

also what would be a good dimension of an intercooler so that i wouldnt have to cut too much of the bumper support on my 92 240.

[punxva]

bump, need some answers

[breakindrifts]

www.ka-t.org

[Silverbullet]

u'll be able to make 250WHP easy. Infact, i wouldn't even be that hesitant to do over it like 270-280WHP with a rebuilt motor. You dont need that methanol and water injection. Stand alone is always prefered but you'll be fine with an SAFC. go with a JWT ECU. Jimmy does a fine job with ECUs from what i hear.

FYI, ur IC piping is packaged up!

[undercoverdjay]

www.ka-t.org

+1 for ka-t.org



I built my entire KA-T setup from tried and true setups people had on that site. Plus some of my own research. Im headed to a sport compact nationals show saturday and I'm going to do a dyno pull to see exactly whats going on under the hood, but I tuned my car with an SAFC, an LC-1 wideband, my laptop(for logging a/f ratio) and managed to walk away from my friends FD3S up to 90mph from an off ramp onto the freeway.

KA-T's are awesome, I have almost nothing invested (relatively) and the results are impressive.

[punxva]

alright these were the answers i was looking for, thx silverbullet, when u sending them out? Actaully i have been searcing ka-t.org for like 2 days trying to find a good size intercooler core to use, like dimensions wise that i can fit to my bumper without too much modification.

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

You can fit a pretty big intercooler without too much cutting. Don't go too small because you don't want to overwork the intercooler. You don't need too big an intercooler either. NemeGuero has a Starion intercooler that would be an easy fit, not too much cutting involved. I think its a little small for the 300hp range with the turbo you are running. I can't remember the dimensions right now, but you could google the Starion IC and find something close to its size.
Why are you rebuilding your motor? Do you think something is wrong with it? If the compression is good it will be fine. The stock KA holds a lot of power. More than you can make with this set up! Save the money and put it to REAL engine management. SAFC is ok for lower HP numbers, but is really not safe over 250-ish. Add a MSD BTM as a bandaid and you can see close to 300ish HP but I would be nervous about it.
The 550s are a bit big for SAFC, and way more than your stock maf will ever be able to support. Spend the money on an Enthalpy tune or a JWT tune and a Z32 maf. Just do it right the first time or you will be breaking ring lands in no time. Don't downgrade your injectors, upgrade your engine management!

[Jookmasta]

zeitronix wideband, and an enthalpy tune and u'll be set. for intercooler size, i run a 31x2.5x6 and did NOT have to cut my bumper support at all. u will need to trim ur front bumper tho but its no biggie...............shears will cut thru it.

[Silverbullet]

believe me, your not going to over work your FMIC. You know those really big FMICs that EVERYONE gets? well those are actually for high HP cars 500+ and we are using them for our measily 200-300WHP cars. im actually in the process of reducing my 24x12x3 FMIC to one thats less than half that size... need room for oil cooler and more flow to rad.

[undercoverdjay]

My FMIC doesnt even get warm at 10psi, lol, just wanted it for future HP goals. I forget what size mine is, but it's perfect. I'll find the ad and let ya know.

What do you plan on running?
HP goals
budget?
etc etc

[punxva]

to the person who asked why i want to rebuild, i already have, and it was because the engine had 214,000 miles on it, and the compression was pretty low, so i rebuilt it. like i posted in the inital post im looking to get around 250 to the wheels, and am kinda on a low budget because college starts in a month and i have to focus alot of my money towards that. The only problem with getting a tuned ecu is that since im leaving i'd like to have it done before i go, and like i said i dont have alot of money to pay for a retuned ecu.

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

to the person who asked why i want to rebuild, i already have, and it was because the engine had 214,000 miles on it, and the compression was pretty low, so i rebuilt it. like i posted in the inital post im looking to get around 250 to the wheels, and am kinda on a low budget because college starts in a month and i have to focus alot of my money towards that. The only problem with getting a tuned ecu is that since im leaving i'd like to have it done before i go, and like i said i dont have alot of money to pay for a retuned ecu.


Thats a good reason for a rebuild.

If you don't have the $$ cor a tuned ecu, then you don't have the $$ to rebuild a broken motor. Just keep the boost/power levels low.

[punxva]

dude, ive already rebuilt the motor... its got 6,000 miles on it, thats kinda why i dont have too much money also :)

[orion::S14]

To clarify one thing from above:

+250rwhp on the stock ECU is a BAD idea. Bad.

Timing is too aggressive.

No matter how much fuel you have, you need some timing retard to run more than 7-8psi.

Any decent sized turbo will give you 240-250rwhp at 7-8-9psi...any more power and you're just asking to break the ring lands.

SO...keep it safe for now, and run low boost ad make safe power.

When you can afford a retuned ECU, shoot for more.

- Brian

[punxva]

so i should also invest in some sot of boost controller, rather than let the internal wastegate limit the boost

[Silverbullet]

all a boost controller does is either bleed or strict the amount of pressure going to the waste gate. The less pressure going to the wastegate, the less it will open resulting in higher boost to ur manifold.

[punxva]

so how should i go about keeping the boost down at those levels?

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

What spring is your wastegate for? That is as low as you will be able to boost. A boost controller will only help spool and allow you to boost higher.

[punxva]

its an internal wastegate

[SpeedMonkeyInc]

so i should also invest in some sot of boost controller, rather than let the internal wastegate limit the boost


Right. I know. But it still has a boost level built in. Do you know at what boost the internal wastegate open?

[BigVinnie]

To clarify one thing from above:

+250rwhp on the stock ECU is a BAD idea. Bad.

Timing is too aggressive.

No matter how much fuel you have, you need some timing retard to run more than 7-8psi.

Any decent sized turbo will give you 240-250rwhp at 7-8-9psi...any more power and you're just asking to break the ring lands.

SO...keep it safe for now, and run low boost ad make safe power.

When you can afford a retuned ECU, shoot for more.

- Brian


Brian hit it on the button.
On a turbo application it is only natural to retard ecu ignition timing this means the maps are brought down from 20ATDC to about 9ATDC at idle and can be brought up more aggresive to 18 or 20ATDC by 6000RPMS (assuming that you would want to make 250whp). An SAFC wont change ignition timing.
The idea is to keep the plugs as cool as possible since the intial intake charge is increased which will drive cylinder temprature higher than normal. Now even if you used the stock ecu, I cannot comprehend why 550cc injectors would be used since the pulse width is too large for a stock ecu set up, even using an SAFC cannot calibrate injectors of that magnitude even if you were to use a wide band the maps still calibrate to a narrowband voltage. You also won't be able to boost passed 12 PSI with the stock ignition set up so the injectors are kind of pointless, more than likely have you running richer than a son of a bitch (which will decrease hp and probably cause backfire).
Even if you are a college student on low funds I don't see how you couldn't save up for a Biki rom for $300. Honestly downgrade the injectors to 440cc, and sell the SAFC that should be enough for a Biki.

[DrtyRat]

also what would be a good dimension of an intercooler so that i wouldnt have to cut too much of the bumper support on my 92 240.
I have the hybrid gt spec on my 93 coupe and no modification was needed to make it fit, and that thing is huge!!! So I wouldn't be too worried about it