removing emissions, tap/T-off 2ndary butterflies to FPR vac line correct?

[Indolent]

process of removing all emissions
my only vac lines are the ones that go to the intake by the big hose
and the fpr, i'm keeping the 2ndary butterflies/throttle, so i would just tap/T-off that FPR vac line to that 'actuator' thing that controls the 2ndary butterflies correct? just want to make sure

[formeRiceR]

what are these butterflyvalves you speak of????
what is their purpose???

I'm guessing you're going KA-T, is this nessessary to remove it?

[NemeGuero]

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=109345

You're welcome.

And butterfly valves are secondary valves for the s13 DOHC I think. (Right Vinnie?)

[Indolent]

yeah that's a great write up, i already know how he does the emissions removal stuff, but doesn't he have an s14 motor in his s13 so it's different.

but i'm pretty sure that i just gotta tap the 2ndary butterflies just to some vac. source

[NemeGuero]

I don't know what secondary actuator comes off of the FPR...
My FPR only has a single line going to it...

Pics?

[projectRDM]

Yes, T off the FPR.

You're welcome.

[Indolent]

i'd add to rep hah but i need to spread more around
thanks again as always

[chrisstroud]

Here the same writeup as on nico, only without all the broken image links.
http://www.project-mayhem04.com/EGR%20Removal.html

[BigVinnie]

And butterfly valves are secondary valves for the s13 DOHC I think. (Right Vinnie?)

HAHA yeah you knew i would probably come across this thread.
SCV's (Swirl Control Valves) are only found on OBD-OBD1 KA24's. It's really only for old smog emissions and they aren't needed. The KA will have much more high end power with out them.
They came on 1989-1990 SOHC's, 1991-1994 DOHC's.
It's about a 6HP gain to the wheels removing them from the manifold, most people don't bother removing them, but rather use a 95-98 upper manifold half instead...
It was used to increase throttle responce on the low end, also to increase it's atomization to burn a better A/F ratio when the engine is under load especially since Nissan tuning on USDM's sucked back then, tunes are a bit on the rich side of the ratio.

[jdm538]

thanks for that link ^^ i needed it.

[downshift_sideways]

HAHA yeah you knew i would probably come across this thread.
SCV's (Swirl Control Valves) are only found on OBD-OBD1 KA24's. It's really only for old smog emissions and they aren't needed. The KA will have much more high end power with out them.
They came on 1989-1990 SOHC's, 1991-1994 DOHC's.
It was used to increase throttle responce on the low end, also to increase it's atomization to burn a better A/F ratio when the engine is under load especially since Nissan tunning on USDM's sucked back then, tunes are a bit on the rich side of the ratio.

Oh snaps, i remember when i had my dohc we were planning on removing my scv's. We talked about it that night @ round table with evan. Shit How about we remove them on my sohc? I can use some more high end :D

[BigVinnie]

Oh snaps, i remember when i had my dohc we were planning on removing my scv's. We talked about it that night @ round table with evan. Shit How about we remove them on my sohc? I can use some more high end :D

For shure. Just remember when you go in for smog though we may need to retard the timing at the distributor a bit to lean the mixture in the low end to get you pass emissions testing. State of california only allows 3 degress of retard from 20BTDC. You are good to go!!!!!!!!!
Make shure that you get new coolant hoses, and vacuum lines. They will probably fall apart when taking off the manifold. Also get the mani gasket...Get some JB weld too you will need it to close some holes in the mani...

[downshift_sideways]

how much increase are we talking about on the sohc? i was thinking about going n/a itb's.

[BigVinnie]

how much increase are we talking about on the sohc? i was thinking about going n/a itb's.

NA ITB set will cost you a grip of money. No one has broken over 180whp on stock internals with that set up and a standalone is needed.
It would be better to leave you smogable since we do live in California, and if you get pulled over by an officer it is a direct impound on your vehicle.
Removing the SCV's will probably be the same gains noted as on the DOHC's (about 6 wheel HP). Maybe slightly less since the CFM rating on the SOHC's is a little less than the DOHC. But still it will be an increase in power.

[CaoBoY]

cops probably arent going to notice emissions removal, unless its a cat converter gone, or an intake. i dont think they are going to notice the butterflies gone either haha. im going to do this too, along with a few other emissions controls (basically all of it, according to ka-t.org) and do away with it, because it is useless, and will clean up the motor quite a bit.

[Indolent]

i like the lower end/jumpy which is why i'm keeping it
about what rpm/speed do you guys notice the difference from removing them? (if you can' even notice it)

[formeRiceR]

so if you turbo and take these valves out this is beneficial to the high-end, I get that part. But how does it change you low-end (drivablity-wise)?

big changes or something that is not noticable.

[BigVinnie]

im going to do this too, along with a few other emissions controls (basically all of it, according to ka-t.org)

I wouldn't do that if I were you. I notice you live in California. Removing any emissions equipment that shut off any part of the vacuum system, or any part of the EGR/BPT sensors (temp sensor in general) directly throws codes, and puts the ecu into a safe mode that only makes it run rich, this actually will drop the performance of your engine.
If you do want to remove other parts of the emissions system without the ecu running the ratio rich your best bet is to get a FEDERAL issued ecu. You can literally remove almost all emissions without the ecu throwing out any codes. I did this in researching the BIKIROM, almost made a big mistake installing the daughter board onto a California mother board... Big No, No.


what rpm/speed do you guys notice the difference from removing them? (if you can' even notice it)


At about 3000RPM and on, it's a kick in the midrange and stretches all the way to 5600~5700RPM. It allows better use of the 240 duration intake cam on our s13's, and it increases the CFM rating. It does drop a tad of low end torque at about 2800RPM and below.

[Indolent]

I wouldn't do that if I were you. I notice you live in California. Removing any emissions equipment that shut off any part of the vacuum system, or any part of the EGR/BPT sensors (temp sensor in general) directly throws codes, and puts the ecu into a safe mode that only makes it run rich, this actually will drop the performance of your engine.
If you do want to remove other parts of the emissions system without the ecu running the ratio rich your best bet is to get a FEDERAL issued ecu. You can literally remove almost all emissions without the ecu throwing out any codes. I did this in researching the BIKIROM, almost made a big mistake installing the daughter board onto a California mother board... Big No, No.


91 ka24de auto ecu
all emissions are in

hmm, i've read on here before one person didn't throw a code after supposedly removing all his emissions, not sure if it was a california model though if that makes a difference
to try to avoid throwing an egr code, for my car for months i've unplugged the (2) sensors in the back of the head and the one for the AIV ? (black box on driver side/left of car) after doing this i did not throw a code 32 (EGR malfunction) however, the cel would sometimes go on then it'll just turn off, but, it would be for a code 34 (knock sensor) and code 45 (injector leak) and it wouldn't come on a lot, it would just come on over a period of time then go away.

Is there a way to remove the emissions without throwing a code? such as a resistor soldered somewhere (egr temp sensor?), if so, what ohm/type of resistor, and these federal ecu's, i've tried searching but maybe i'm not searching enough? where do they come from, non California cars or something? do you know what ecu #'s they are, i've searched 1-2 s13 ka24de federal ecu #'s but it was on the marketplace forum
"S13 KA24DE ECU #28 (Federal)" - automatic?
ecu #24 (federal 5spd) - stated that it's 5spd but not sure if he was inquiring sohc or dohc
what different about these ecu's other than not throwing egr codes after removal? or better yet you have a link or something so i can read up on these?

[NemeGuero]

http://forums.freshalloy.com/?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=361025

this is the resistor info for the EGR removal.

[BigVinnie]

"S13 KA24DE ECU #28 (Federal)" - automatic?
ecu #24 (federal 5spd) - stated that it's 5spd but not sure if he was inquiring sohc or dohc
what different about these ecu's other than not throwing egr codes after removal? or better yet you have a link or something so i can read up on these?

You can find these numbers on the boards themselves...
Any discription listed F is federal, and discription listed C is california model.
A stands for Automatic, and M obviously stands for Manual transmission.
These indicators are labelled in the middle of there discriptions.

I don't believe number 28# is an automatic ecu, it has been listed as a manual FED ecu. I have an ecu number 29# and it is a cali manual transmission ecu.


Here is the US ka24de.

----KA24DE S13 240sx---

A11-C03 G61 91 240SX A F S13-KA24DE 23710-59F10
A11-C04 G62 91 240SX A C S13-KA24DE 23710-59F15
A11-B44 G07 91 240SX M F S13-KA24DE 23710-53F00
A11-B44 G70 91 240SX M F S13-KA24DE 23710-53F01
A11-B46 G09 91 240SX M C S13-KA24DE 23710-54F00
A11-B46 G72 91 240SX M C S13-KA24DE 23710-54F01
A11-B45 G71 92 240SX A F S13-KA24DE 23710-53F11
A11-B47 G76 92 240SX A C S13-KA24DE 23710-54F12
A11-C03 G61 92 240SX A F S13-KA24DE 23710-59F10
A11-C04 G77 92 240SX A C S13-KA24DE 23710-59F16
A11-B44 G70 92 240SX M F S13-KA24DE 23710-53F01
A11-B46 G75 92 240SX M C S13-KA24DE 23710-54F02
A11-B45 G71 93 240SX A F S13-KA24DE 23710-53F11
A11-B47 G76 93 240SX A C S13-KA24DE 23710-54F12
A11-C03 G61 93 240SX A F S13-KA24DE 23710-59F10
A11-C04 G77 93 240SX A C S13-KA24DE 23710-59F16
A11-B44 G70 93 240SX M F S13-KA24DE 23710-53F01
A11-B46 G75 93 240SX M C S13-KA24DE 23710-54F02
A11-B45 G71 94 240SX A F S13-KA24DE 23710-53F11
A11-B47 G76 94 240SX A C S13-KA24DE 23710-54F12
A11-C04 G24 94 240SX A F S13-KA24DE 23710-59F12
A11-C24 G77 94 240SX A C S13-KA24DE 23710-59F16
A11-B44 G70 94 240SX M F S13-KA24DE 23710-53F01
A11-B46 G75 94 240SX M C S13-KA24DE 23710-54F02

[CaoBoY]

http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10789