OT: i want an ITR

[tnord]

after my day at the track, and having an ITR be the only 4cyl to beat me, i want one. the sound of that thing passing me at 9k+ rpms was spine tingling. granted the thing was heavily modified and i kept up with him through the technical section, but the thing appeals to me in a way the 240 doesn't. i watched him reel in a 2nd gen M3 down the straight. so yeah......screw turbo, i want an ITR. i'll just have to cope with FWD. now to find one.

anybody want to buy mine?

[sykikchimp]

Been spending too much time on those Honda Forums.. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

I'll give you $2 and and some envelopes.. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> &nbsp;

ok... &nbsp;ITR's are sweet cars. &nbsp;great neutral handling, decent stock power, respond well to mods, and have high resale value. &nbsp;(Bad now.. &nbsp;good later) &nbsp;If only they were RWD..

[West]

Thats a shame <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> But whatever floats your boat I guess.

Tell me about your 98se. I might be interested in it. Give me pricing too. Thanks!

[boosteds14]

actually thnord- i have to agree with u here because of the fact that before i got my 240sx i was obsesed with the itr,especially the 98 year one that only came in championship white with white rims. the 98 and 97 are too rare. and the ability to redlilne at 9000+rpm just sounds awesome

[tnord]

sorry mark, but i'm guessing that i would be asking more than anyone on the boards would be willing to pay. it would be sold as is with all the mods, which of course jacks up the price. also, i paid more for it than people in other parts of the country would have. being in minnesota, and having only seen 1 other genuine 97-98 jacks up the price pretty bad. as you know it's a 98 SE 5sp 50k miles with cd/cass/lsd/abs/roof. basically every option as far as i know. i also have a 100k mile warranty that is transferable to the new buyer, the warranty is worth around $1500. and being able to sell it through the dealer i would be able to get even more out of it. i know you guys in the rest of the country could probably snatch up this car for 12k or so, but when i told a guy at the track that i got it for 15, he was amazed that it was that cheap. so now you know the market around here.


cliff notes: i would be looking for 15+ for the car. unreasonable? to people in the know probably.....but the market is different up here.

EDIT: i won't leave the boards completely. you can count on me being here to brag about how fast my new car is (whatever that may be) and rub it in everybody's face. &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

[91CRXsiR]

have you considered getting a normal integra and swapping type R into it? its much cheaper that way.

plus you have the option of getting better parts like aftermarket exhaust and cams and etc..

btw the ITR is very nice but have you ever considered a CTR? or another H-car w/ a type R engine? like eh.. a CRX?

[DSC]

Have you driven one yet travis? &nbsp;You may not even like how they feel, regardless of how fast it is.
I drove a newish gsr and I didn't like it. &nbsp;I felt like a was way up at the front of the car and it felt like its ass was up in that air. &nbsp;Definately not something I could easily get used to.
[note: this was a car I was looking at before I bought my s14]

I wouldn't decide anything untill you test drive it.

BTW, thats really the only thing I dislike about the 240 (other than its tranny <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':angry:'> or mine rather) I would love to have a usable power range to 8k+ even if I gave up some torque.

[onebadm5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sykikchimp @ June 10 2002,4:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Been spending too much time on those Honda Forums.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

I'll give you $2 and and some envelopes.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

ok... ITR's are sweet cars. great neutral handling, decent stock power, respond well to mods, and have high resale value. (Bad now.. good later) If only they were RWD..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
they did make a RWD type R, cept it was badged as the e30 m3 &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[Grant]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (onebadm5 @ June 10 2002,5:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteBegin--sykikchimp+June 10 2002,4<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sykikchimp @ June 10 2002,4<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>6)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Been spending too much time on those Honda Forums.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

I'll give you $2 and and some envelopes.. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

ok... ITR's are sweet cars. great neutral handling, decent stock power, respond well to mods, and have high resale value. (Bad now.. good later) If only they were RWD..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
they did make a RWD type R, cept it was badged as the e30 m3 <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
riiiight ok... you and BMW's *sighs*......

he said ITR's not type R, so there, if you want to get technical.

[Tuck&Poke]

ive driven an itr on many occasions (close friends car) and i would love to have that as a daily driver. &nbsp;yea yea the fwd is a disadvantage but with the way that thing is calibrated it still handles like a beast. &nbsp;with minimal mods (aem intake greddy exhaust pullies) hes pretty damn fast for only having those mods. &nbsp;weve taken stock 5.0's with no problem and beaten a few dsm turbos. &nbsp;lets just say its on of the faster imports out there. &nbsp;the shifter feel is fuckin awsome. &nbsp;ive never felt anything like that in a car of that price or double the price. &nbsp;and the quality of everything in that car surpases many many cars. &nbsp;its got quality all over it (something honda is known for) only problem was when i floored it and the glove box came off the dash. &nbsp;great overall car <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[drift into a curb]

5.slow are actually quite sluggish. &nbsp;

Anyhow, I have a GSR. &nbsp;I know it's not a type R, not even close, but it can hold it's own. &nbsp;Stock for stock, it's faster than a 240sx, handling is amazing for grip applications, car looks sweet even though everyone's aunt and brother's monkey has one, and like every other car, they have further potential that has yet to be tapped into.

I'm not sure but the price for a ITR is going to be more than $15k that you plan to get for your car. &nbsp;I believe they're more like $18k to $25k, depending what the car specs are and where it's from. &nbsp;Even for that price, the car doesn't come with a sunroof or AC I think. &nbsp;In the end, I think it would be best to keep your 240 because of it's rarity and eventually boost it or go for the sr20det. &nbsp;If you have some extra money laying around, go get a Integra LS body, find a b18c5 motor and slap that sucker in with a nice suspension set up and you can get revhappy all day. &nbsp;Oh well, enough nonsense

[will]

hehe, i'll admit the Type R is the FF car to own and deff the FF to track regularly. &nbsp;(This car dominated the G stock class) but heard it is/did get moved. &nbsp;It just handles so well, is light, and just begs to be revved. &nbsp;For the 2 years I had mine i loved it, now as far as just swapping in the motor as a quick fix, the ITR is more than that, its lighter and has certain reinforcements on the chasis that the GSR does not have. &nbsp;Little details make it stand out(on the track) you'd have to upgrade brakes, suspension parts, etc
After awhile you just get tired of front wheel drive and realize its limits, especially when you start getting more HP
outta the box, the ITR is great though.
I've driven my R close to its limits and was very impressed with the way it handled the corner that came fast (@Texas Motor Speedway)
my $.02
-will

[tnord]

no i haven't driven a type r, they're not exactly the easiest things to come by. i have driven a gsr though, i was fairly impressed. yeah ff has it's limitations, but have you found them? didn't think so, i doubt i will either. you can't deny the itr's capabilities. tell that to everybody in speedvision championship that continue to get beat by a 7? year old design.

[camppain]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ June 11 2002,05:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">after my day at the track, and having an ITR be the only 4cyl to beat me, i want one. the sound of that thing passing me at 9k+ rpms was spine tingling. granted the thing was heavily modified and i kept up with him through the technical section, but the thing appeals to me in a way the 240 doesn't. i watched him reel in a 2nd gen M3 down the straight. so yeah......screw turbo, i want an ITR. i'll just have to cope with FWD. now to find one.

anybody want to buy mine?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
dont lie you were not at the track and a itr did not beat you!

it was the "something keeps bothering me" topic and the silvia vs the itr video.

travis get a life that was a video and initial d is a cartoon! *slap*

ok seriously itrs are nice cars my buddy has a civic hatch with a gsr motor in it and itr cams pistons and some other schtuff ran a 13.9 all motor

[Goodbar6]

Let me start out by saying that the ITR is a freaking AWESOME FF car! Cant beat it for track days as a front driver! Really stinking awesome!

Now onto why you should not get one <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>. It is Front wheel drive! DUH <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>. But seriously, think about it. Take an Integra Type R and your 240SX. Modify both of them to the hilt, and what you get is a sweet RWD car (240SX) out handling, out accelerating, out launching, and looking way cooler (not everyone and there monkey has one). OR, a torque steering understeering (or uncontrolled oversteering) rev happy quick car that is one of the most often stolen vehicles.

Just my .02 cents. Nothing wrong AT ALL with the ITR. In fact, if i was alowed to only have one car the rest of my life that i could NOT modify, then i would get one. But since that is not my curse, then RWD all the way <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>.

Tyler <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':love:'>

[onebadm5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Goodbar6 @ June 10 2002,9:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let me start out by saying that the ITR is a freaking AWESOME FF car! Cant beat it for track days as a front driver! Really stinking awesome!

Now onto why you should not get one <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>. It is Front wheel drive! DUH <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>. But seriously, think about it. Take an Integra Type R and your 240SX. Modify both of them to the hilt, and what you get is a sweet RWD car (240SX) out handling, out accelerating, out launching, and looking way cooler (not everyone and there monkey has one). OR, a torque steering understeering (or uncontrolled oversteering) rev happy quick car that is one of the most often stolen vehicles.

Just my .02 cents. Nothing wrong AT ALL with the ITR. In fact, if i was alowed to only have one car the rest of my life that i could NOT modify, then i would get one. But since that is not my curse, then RWD all the way <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>.

Tyler <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':love:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
i dont know if i can agree with that. Competition between the Realtime Racing ITR's and Turner Motorsport 325i's are INCREDIBLY close, regardless of the fact that its FWD vs RWD.


I mean, i dont think its a fluke that Acura fields the points leading cars in drivers category for SCCA Speed GT, Speed GT manufacturers, Speed Touring car drivers, and Speed Touring car manufacturers!!!!!!!! and i dont think the competition (BMW, Chevrolet, Lexus, Honda, Ford, etc.) is any slouch, after all, i would characterize them as well balanced "sweet" competitor cars...

Travis, kudos to you. i think the ITR is a true enthusiasts car, and i would take one in a sec if someone offered one to me...

edit: this is one of the team cars i saw several years ago at the short lived San Diego GP. sweet car if u ask me!



http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/cmarsh/43grid.jpg

[tnord]

basically, as i've stated before, my beef w/the 240 is with the engine. and an SR is NOT an option for me. i challenge any of you to find me a better 4cyl than the one in the itr (s2k and rsx excluded). the itr is nothing less than a screaming banshee. some of you like the usefulness of low end power and torque. me, i want something that rev's and sounds like a f'n F1 engine. handling is also oh so important. the itr is notorious for acting unlike a fwd car, i would even go as far as to say it handles better. now i just have to discover a few grand and a buyer for my car.

shit.....i doubt i'll get the miata done next summer if i get a f'n itr. so many cars, so little money.

[camppain]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ June 11 2002,11:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">basically, as i've stated before, my beef w/the 240 is with the engine. and an SR is NOT an option for me. i challenge any of you to find me a better 4cyl than the one in the itr (s2k and rsx excluded). the itr is nothing less than a screaming banshee. some of you like the usefulness of low end power and torque. me, i want something that rev's and sounds like a f'n F1 engine. handling is also oh so important. the itr is notorious for acting unlike a fwd car, i would even go as far as to say it handles better. now i just have to discover a few grand and a buyer for my car.

shit.....i doubt i'll get the miata done next summer if i get a f'n itr. so many cars, so little money.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
sr20ve &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

and yes its been done in a silvia in japan before get some sr16vvlna cams and you can put down some serious hp to the wheels there are fwd se-r guys running low 13's on these cars.

some guys have also turbo'ed the ve's not the already turboed vet

[uiuc240]

what about buying an early S13 with a clean body, stripping it, painting it, putting in a couple of racing seats and a CA18DET. &nbsp;Those will wrap out to 9 grand, and they have boost, too! &nbsp;Then you get to keep your RWD and your loyalty to Nissan. &nbsp;Other than that, I really don't know of a better 4 banger. &nbsp;I used to have a Gen 2 Integra...what a great car. &nbsp;It was just creamy from idle to redline. &nbsp;Love that. &nbsp;The SR is definitely close, though. &nbsp;Much better than my KA.

Eric

[Firelance]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ June 10 2002,11:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i challenge any of you to find me a better 4cyl than the one in the itr (s2k and rsx excluded).</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
By better do you mean specific output? &nbsp;

The 3SGE in the j-spec MR2 is a NA with a 200hp output on 2.0 liter displacement. &nbsp;A specific output, just as good as the ITR. &nbsp;

Also, the 1.3 displacement rotary (not exactly fair I know &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> ) has a much better specific displacement than an ordinary piston engine.

If you are talking about torque curve, the vtech on the ITR engine is going to limit the torqe no? &nbsp;I'm not sure on this as I've never seen a dyno for a stock ITR so someone correct me.

[onebadm5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ June 10 2002,9:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i challenge any of you to find me a better 4cyl than the one in the itr (s2k and rsx excluded).</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
u ask my friend, and i deliver. One of the last "Homologation Specials".

http://www.m3bmw.com/yourm3/markus-03.jpg

http://e30m3performance.com/now_showing/gallery/checca/gr-a-1.jpg

http://e30m3performance.com/now_showing/gallery/aurthur_gr-a/1988-E30-Salzburg-1.jpg
http://e30m3performance.com/now_showing/gallery/aurthur_gr-a/1988-E30-nurburgring-2.jpg

http://turnermotorsport.com/image/featured_bmw/featuredbmw_0800_rear_lg.jpg

http://www.dtmpower.net/featured_car/march/dscn0961.jpg

mmm, 364 hp @ 9000 rpm, LOVELY!

p.s. this is just my .02. it may not be the newest or the fastest car, but its the one that i have come love. as mick walsh said in the February issus of C & SC, "Some enthusiasts are dissapointed by the M3 experience because they haven't analysed the car's specification and true appeal. I spend my life telling people if you want neck snapping acceleration and all that bullshit bar talk, go buy a TVR or a Porsche Turbo. You buy an M3 because you are a driver of the true sense. I grew up in the 60's in the age of Lotus Cortinas when handling took precedence over grip. The M3 has some of that classic hooligan element but with a good level of modern refinement. Nimble, compact, easy to park, fits four people (just) and suits today's motoring - any sorted M3 is just a wickedly good fun machine..."

Im sorry to go OT, and but ive been receiving some flak from certain people because of my taste in cars. i love bimmers, i love nissans, i love hondas (well, there CART program rocks) i dont expect everyone to understand, and i dont really appreciate it when other people bash me for it. so just be tolerant. i dont scream out in bloody murder every time i see a car i dont like, i usually just keep it to myself. thank you.

Well, that was kinda more than .02.... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sigh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':rolleyes:'>

[camppain]

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/eagle/racing/DSCF0004.JPGhttp://www.ne.jp/asahi/eagle/racing/000000021.jpg
the engine is a det block from a gtir or a normal det with a gtir intake and ve head i think they changed it up from the first pic as that one has a regular intake manifold i dont wnt to download the japanese translator and translate it thorugh babble fish

SR16VE - 173hp @ 7800rpm / 119lb torque @ 7200rpm
SR16VE N1 - 197hp @ 7800rpm / 134lb torque @ 7600rpm
SR20VE - 187hp @ 7000rpm / 145lb torque @ 6000rpm
SR20VET - 276hp @ 6400rpm / 228lb torque @ 3200rpm

here goes some more info
http://www.gonzonx.com/sr20ve/thesr16ve.html

and the last one http://sr20deforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18317

[tnord]

engine swaps are out of the question. and M5, the E30 M3 is most definitely a superior car to the itr in my opinion, but you know as well as i do that they aren't exactly the easiest things to maintain. you know i love BMW's, but just can't afford them at this point (i don't think i can afford an itr either). and the NA version of the MR2 engine is also an impressive powerplant, but not exactly accessible to me.

man do i need to graduate and finally get a full time job.

[Drifting Ricer]

Travis changes his mind allot. Last time I checked he wanted a s13 full race car then a z32. (a couple of months ago). Then he gets beat by a ITR now he wants that too?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>?? Man when will you're madness end? Just say it you don't like the 240sx period. Not sure why you want to give on the s-chassis so easily.

I think Travis is a frustrated s-chassis owner.

[onebadm5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ June 10 2002,10:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">engine swaps are out of the question. and M5, the E30 M3 is most definitely a superior car to the itr in my opinion, but you know as well as i do that they aren't exactly the easiest things to maintain. you know i love BMW's, but just can't afford them at this point (i don't think i can afford an itr either). and the NA version of the MR2 engine is also an impressive powerplant, but not exactly accessible to me.

man do i need to graduate and finally get a full time job.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
i get your point trav. you're looking for something that u could realistically attain, and your top choice would be the ITR. Gotcha <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

on another note, im quite impressed that u know what an e30 m3 is! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[tnord]

impressed i know what it is? oh c'mon man. basically, my entire life revolves around racing, and if you're not a big V8 guy you always root for the E30. they go up against cars with more than 2x the engine and still walk on them. the E30 is the perfect blend of technology and machine. not too many electronic systems to save the driver from a mistake, but advanced enough to still be an extremely impressive performer even today. i love BMW's, i was looking to get one when i stumbled upon the 240. i'm a racer, and as a racer you HAVE to respect all the E30's at absolute minimum.

i have this asset and liability of never being satisified with what i have, and always wanting to do better, or have more. at school and in the workplace it's an asset, but it tends to create much stress. hence my high blood pressure. anybody surprised? i didn't think so.

[DSC]

Travis is a nut job <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'>

hehe, we lub you man <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':love:'>

<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/lookaround.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':look:'>

[HippoSleek]

*sigh* Travis, what are we going to do with you? &nbsp;You can't admit that someone may have out-driven you, can you? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

An ITR? &nbsp;Why? &nbsp;I'll give it props as a track toy and daily driver, but what are you looking to get out of it? &nbsp;If you are going to build a Spec. car, there would be no need for a second track toy - not to mention that there are several differences between tracking an ITR and a Miata. &nbsp;That is the sole purpose I won't build a Honda Challenge car - I know my future lies in rwd. &nbsp;At some point, you have to graduate to a true performance car (would be flammers note that I am not calling the 240 a true performance car out of the box either). &nbsp;The ITR lacks the feel - both b/c of it's drive layout and it's driver position. &nbsp;You STILL can't steer w/ the throttle. &nbsp;It still pushes. &nbsp;This is overlooking the fact that your car can probably turn lap times not too far off an ITR as is. &nbsp;Not to mention the beating the average Miata driver will give the average ITR driver at a track event. &nbsp;I know you know it is the driver.

A daily driver? &nbsp;When you ride in an ITR, you will note that they are loud and stiff and lack the creature comforts of a good daily driver. &nbsp;They perform better at the track, but a the expense of daily conveniences. &nbsp;Keep in mind that the hp bump over the GSR isn't really all that much despite the increased performance (same basic chassis). &nbsp;That's b/c of the sacrifices to daily drivability. &nbsp;Besides, that car is hardly bigger than a 240 inside (although you'd gain some trunk/hatch space). &nbsp;One really good thing about it as a daily driver is that there is so little you can do to improve the performance of the car. &nbsp;Out of the box, it is a great little package. &nbsp;The problem is, that is about it. &nbsp;Unless you fully gut it, start running 1200/900 springs, and drop some serious JDM$$ into the motor you won't see any gains over stock. &nbsp;Out of the box, Honda has done all the little things you would do with a car... to go further means it is not going to be a road friendly car. &nbsp;I've left out the part about "most stolen car in america."

E30 m3's own. &nbsp;We all know this. &nbsp;Someone is preaching to the choir... the poor choir who doesn't have a garage. &nbsp;I think you could get an E36 around here for less than an E30! &nbsp;But the comment about the WC, etc. cars is misplaced. &nbsp;Keep in mind that those guys run weight. &nbsp;It is not fair to compare cars in that series b/c (a) manu money changes reality; (b) those guys can flat out DRIVE; and &copy; there are equalizing factors on the cars.

Now, don't get me wrong, you know that I have a lot of respect for the ITR. &nbsp;Lest someone mistake what I am saying - I love those little cars. &nbsp;I think out of the box, it is a great little platform. &nbsp;I think what Honda did was great - they took the Civic (yes - it is the 5th gen Civic chassis), wraped it in pretty body work and did about all you could reasonably do to make it perform. &nbsp;They gave it more hp, more rigidity, less weight, better brakes, etc. &nbsp;But that is also my beef w/ the ITR. &nbsp;Out of the box, it is a great compromise, but it is hard to improve upon. &nbsp;Until you get to a full race suspension, you won't out-do Honda. &nbsp;Until you go to big-a$$ calipers... &nbsp;Until you fully gut the intereior you won't reduce weight. &nbsp;Until you fully rework the motor... &nbsp;All this means that you bought a car that can't be improved upon - w/o going all out. &nbsp;At that, it is a rough daily driver to start with and only gets worse as you make it better on the track. &nbsp;The limitation of the ITR is the same as with a Civic - it's just that the ITR is already evolved to near the pinnacle of its development. &nbsp;That is it's biggest limit!

If you are dying to make a FF racer, do a hatch or an ITA CRX. &nbsp;You could do that at 70% of the cost of a stock ITR. &nbsp;I can show you a herd of EG hatches that "roll-a-R" like it's nothing. &nbsp;Plus more cargo room and less weight! &nbsp;But UNLESS you want to make an FF racer, I think the ITR is a bad idea.

If you are just itching for change, I say sell the 240, buy a Miata, buy a cheaper tow vehicle (how about a Hardbody - since you love the KA! ), and start saving for upgrades. &nbsp;

Mark
-who thinks the ITR is perfect if you don't know what you are doing... but thinks more highly of Travis &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/whatsthat.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':whatthe:'>

[thewholefnshow]

Sorry, I gotta say it. If you buy an integra the only ones worth shit is a type r, or a gsr, which either sell for too much money or are impossible to find. If you want to have a honda and go fast, buy a crx, and do a b20 sway, it will cost half the money and get your the same results. And if you want more aftermarket, get a 92-95 civic coupe (the weight less thanthe itr anyways) and do the b20 swap. You will hand an intergra it's ass all day long and finally have some torque out of that engine. PLUS you won't get your car stolen 2 weeks after you buy it. The head on all the cars fits all the blocks, b16, b18, b20, the block fits em all, so you can get an sir or civic type r head and save some money... you can build the shit out of a crv block which are easy to find, and take it to the other guys with the same redline... save your money for a vtec controller and let your vtec kick at 3000 if you want. You will buy the type r and regret it after a while, cause hondas are a hoot on the track, but on the street you have to push them hard to have any fun at all, the 240 is all around a more rewarding car...

Your idea of a rotary miata was better, and why not get a rotary 510 and hand all these cars there asses on a regular basis? Just my opinion, I see honda swaps all the time, and they don't impress me a ton... not like an sr20, that's for sure...

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (thewholefnshow @ June 11 2002,08:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do whatever you want, but you are an idiot. Sorry, I gotta say it. If you buy an integra the only ones worth shit is a type r, or a gsr, which either sell for too much money or are impossible to find. If you want to have a honda and go fast, buy a crx, and do a b20 sway, it will cost half the money and get your the same results. And if you want more aftermarket, get a 92-95 civic coupe (the weight less thanthe itr anyways) and do the b20 swap. You will hand an intergra it's ass all day long and finally have some torque out of that engine. PLUS you won't get your car stolen 2 weeks after you buy it. The head on all the cars fits all the blocks, b16, b18, b20, the block fits em all, so you can get an sir or civic type r head and save some money... you can build the shit out of a crv block which are easy to find, and take it to the other guys with the same redline... save your money for a vtec controller and let your vtec kick at 3000 if you want. You will buy the type r and regret it after a while, cause hondas are a hoot on the track, but on the street you have to push them hard to have any fun at all, the 240 is all around a more rewarding car...

Your idea of a rotary miata was better, and why not get a rotary 510 and hand all these cars there asses on a regular basis? Just my opinion, I see honda swaps all the time, and they don't impress me a ton... not like an sr20, that's for sure...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
what the fuck are you talking about? you're the idiot. if you weren't busy reading out your belly button cause you're head's so far up your ass you would realize that the only thing i or anybody else has been talking about is the type R. and i don't do motor swaps, or frankenstein's. and if you knew your ass from a hole in the ground you would know that a type r is much more than just a better engine. sure you could swap in a bunch of shit into an old junker civic or crx and toss in some expensive motor, but guess what, you ain't gettin shit back for what you invested. and seeing as how i trade cars about every year, this is not a smart move on my part.

and don't you ever tell me what i find fun and rewarding.

a rotary miata? has that idea has never been brought up in this thread, i doubt it's even ever been mentioned in these forums. a 510? i know a miata was mentioned at least, but a 510 has never even been brought up. and i hate to burst your bubble, but i'm not out to impress you.

[tnord]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (HippoSleek @ June 11 2002,08:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">*sigh* Travis, what are we going to do with you? You can't admit that someone may have out-driven you, can you? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

An ITR? Why? I'll give it props as a track toy and daily driver, but what are you looking to get out of it? If you are going to build a Spec. car, there would be no need for a second track toy - not to mention that there are several differences between tracking an ITR and a Miata. That is the sole purpose I won't build a Honda Challenge car - I know my future lies in rwd. At some point, you have to graduate to a true performance car (would be flammers note that I am not calling the 240 a true performance car out of the box either). The ITR lacks the feel - both b/c of it's drive layout and it's driver position. You STILL can't steer w/ the throttle. It still pushes. This is overlooking the fact that your car can probably turn lap times not too far off an ITR as is. Not to mention the beating the average Miata driver will give the average ITR driver at a track event. I know you know it is the driver.

A daily driver? When you ride in an ITR, you will note that they are loud and stiff and lack the creature comforts of a good daily driver. They perform better at the track, but a the expense of daily conveniences. Keep in mind that the hp bump over the GSR isn't really all that much despite the increased performance (same basic chassis). That's b/c of the sacrifices to daily drivability. Besides, that car is hardly bigger than a 240 inside (although you'd gain some trunk/hatch space). One really good thing about it as a daily driver is that there is so little you can do to improve the performance of the car. Out of the box, it is a great little package. The problem is, that is about it. Unless you fully gut it, start running 1200/900 springs, and drop some serious JDM$$ into the motor you won't see any gains over stock. Out of the box, Honda has done all the little things you would do with a car... to go further means it is not going to be a road friendly car. I've left out the part about "most stolen car in america."

E30 m3's own. We all know this. Someone is preaching to the choir... the poor choir who doesn't have a garage. I think you could get an E36 around here for less than an E30! But the comment about the WC, etc. cars is misplaced. Keep in mind that those guys run weight. It is not fair to compare cars in that series b/c (a) manu money changes reality; (b) those guys can flat out DRIVE; and © there are equalizing factors on the cars.

Now, don't get me wrong, you know that I have a lot of respect for the ITR. Lest someone mistake what I am saying - I love those little cars. I think out of the box, it is a great little platform. I think what Honda did was great - they took the Civic (yes - it is the 5th gen Civic chassis), wraped it in pretty body work and did about all you could reasonably do to make it perform. They gave it more hp, more rigidity, less weight, better brakes, etc. But that is also my beef w/ the ITR. Out of the box, it is a great compromise, but it is hard to improve upon. Until you get to a full race suspension, you won't out-do Honda. Until you go to big-a$$ calipers... Until you fully gut the intereior you won't reduce weight. Until you fully rework the motor... All this means that you bought a car that can't be improved upon - w/o going all out. At that, it is a rough daily driver to start with and only gets worse as you make it better on the track. The limitation of the ITR is the same as with a Civic - it's just that the ITR is already evolved to near the pinnacle of its development. That is it's biggest limit!

If you are dying to make a FF racer, do a hatch or an ITA CRX. You could do that at 70% of the cost of a stock ITR. I can show you a herd of EG hatches that "roll-a-R" like it's nothing. Plus more cargo room and less weight! But UNLESS you want to make an FF racer, I think the ITR is a bad idea.

If you are just itching for change, I say sell the 240, buy a Miata, buy a cheaper tow vehicle (how about a Hardbody - since you love the KA! ), and start saving for upgrades.

Mark
-who thinks the ITR is perfect if you don't know what you are doing... but thinks more highly of Travis <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/whatsthat.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':whatthe:'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
i would have to drive an itr before a decision is made. and that may never happen. you're right, bottom line is it's still a fwd car, but you know it's as close as you can currently get to rwd without actually being so. it would mainly be a "daily" driver, but of course would get stored for the 5 months or so of winter here in MN. yes you're right, i could turn lap times close to a stock itr, but i doubt i could beat it, and that's with a somewhat modified car. and that whole thing about not being able to improve upon it. well, that is true to a point. each modification might not make as big of a difference as it does with the 240, but as you're aware, that's because you're starting with a much more sophisticated platform to begin with. a stock itr will not beat a stock M3, but i watched a modified itr reel in a modified m3 on the straight this weekend, so i think there is room for improvement still. it's not the ff racer i'm looking for, it's a better engine. and i don't do swaps. seeing as how the income from this summer isn't turning out to be what was planned, i just might buy the miata and drive it until this time next year when i actually have a decent paying job.

and mark, i'm honored you think i'm too good for the itr. but i don't think anybody is too good for 9k+ screaming rpm's. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[luey02]

I dont see why you would not do swaps. Besides from cost saving issues, you get to keep the rwd and all of the parts you have on the car already. NOt only you lose all of your investment, you lose something you worked on yourself that you really took time to know about.. man, this is gett'n emotional.. &nbsp;so why not swap?

moded itr actually took a m3? the 2002 model? shoot me but I dont believe you.

[The Punk Genius]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ June 10 2002,11:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (thewholefnshow @ June 11 2002,08:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do whatever you want, but you are an idiot. Sorry, I gotta say it. If you buy an integra the only ones worth shit is a type r, or a gsr, which either sell for too much money or are impossible to find. If you want to have a honda and go fast, buy a crx, and do a b20 sway, it will cost half the money and get your the same results. And if you want more aftermarket, get a 92-95 civic coupe (the weight less thanthe itr anyways) and do the b20 swap. You will hand an intergra it's ass all day long and finally have some torque out of that engine. PLUS you won't get your car stolen 2 weeks after you buy it. The head on all the cars fits all the blocks, b16, b18, b20, the block fits em all, so you can get an sir or civic type r head and save some money... you can build the shit out of a crv block which are easy to find, and take it to the other guys with the same redline... save your money for a vtec controller and let your vtec kick at 3000 if you want. You will buy the type r and regret it after a while, cause hondas are a hoot on the track, but on the street you have to push them hard to have any fun at all, the 240 is all around a more rewarding car...

Your idea of a rotary miata was better, and why not get a rotary 510 and hand all these cars there asses on a regular basis? Just my opinion, I see honda swaps all the time, and they don't impress me a ton... not like an sr20, that's for sure...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
what the fuck are you talking about? you're the idiot. if you weren't busy reading out your belly button cause you're head's so far up your ass you would realize that the only thing i or anybody else has been talking about is the type R. and i don't do motor swaps, or frankenstein's. and if you knew your ass from a hole in the ground you would know that a type r is much more than just a better engine. sure you could swap in a bunch of shit into an old junker civic or crx and toss in some expensive motor, but guess what, you ain't gettin shit back for what you invested. and seeing as how i trade cars about every year, this is not a smart move on my part.

and don't you ever tell me what i find fun and rewarding.

a rotary miata? has that idea has never been brought up in this thread, i doubt it's even ever been mentioned in these forums. a 510? i know a miata was mentioned at least, but a 510 has never even been brought up. and i hate to burst your bubble, but i'm not out to impress you.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Actually I do recall you saying you were going to do a Miata at one point.

[thewholefnshow]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ June 10 2002,11:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">what the fuck are you talking about? you're the idiot. if you weren't busy reading out your belly button cause you're head's so far up your ass you would realize that the only thing i or anybody else has been talking about is the type R. and i don't do motor swaps, or frankenstein's. and if you knew your ass from a hole in the ground you would know that a type r is much more than just a better engine. sure you could swap in a bunch of shit into an old junker civic or crx and toss in some expensive motor, but guess what, you ain't gettin shit back for what you invested. and seeing as how i trade cars about every year, this is not a smart move on my part.

and don't you ever tell me what i find fun and rewarding.

a rotary miata? has that idea has never been brought up in this thread, i doubt it's even ever been mentioned in these forums. a 510? i know a miata was mentioned at least, but a 510 has never even been brought up. and i hate to burst your bubble, but i'm not out to impress you.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Lol. I was waiting for you to stick your foot in your mouth. The Type R is hot shit, I will admit it, but why bother.. here are the problems with it.

1.) They are rare as hell and hard to find
2.) They get stolen all the freakin time
3.) They have insurance that makes even the more fortunate cringe
4.) They are exesively expensive for nothing.

The reasons they are good is because they are a little lighter and they have an LSD... whoopdy fuckin doo. I do honda swaps, I have driven in EVERY one of the swaps and I know what is fast, what is not, and how much everything costs. So chill out a little.

THE REASON i said what I said is cause you claim you want this to be &nbsp;a racer. I am trying to save you money and make you faster. You can wipe a type R with what I just told you for about half the money.

Do whatever you want, but if you want to be fast, this is faster, and lighter than a type r. Type r has an lsd, very, very slightly closer gears, and a higher redline. It has a little badge on your arm that says it's a type r, and 5 bolt. No ac, none of the weight shit, thati s the difference. The fundamental suspension differences are minimal. I am not out to impress you either, I just want you to have the fastest car you can for the least amount of money.

As for what you said about the investments, if you flip cars every year, fine, don't bother, the type r will keep its value a little better PROVIDED it doesn't get stolen, which what 50% of them do? Don't get pissy with me, I am not one of these newbie idiots you love to push around and know more about these honda's than 9/10ths of the people here. If you would have thought about what I said instead of that witty belly button thing you would have seen I was trynig to help you, not piss you off.

[will]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ June 10 2002,11:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it would mainly be a "daily" driver, but of course would get stored for the 5 months or so of winter here in MN.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
daily driver eh? &nbsp;trust me, you'll get sick of that shit real quick, after awhile you realize the ITR just belongs on the track. &nbsp;Road noise is high, and "cruising" speed on the highway,if you wanna call it that keeps the RPM's in the 3500 range which sucks. &nbsp;I dealt w/ it cuz i forgot about all that when racing it.

As far as theft, plan on yours being vandalized and possibly stolen, guaranteed something will happen to it, they get stolen about once a week, just go and check honda-tech.com and the Type R forum, you'll see. &nbsp;
Thats why I sold mine, it was bound to be stolen, attracts too much attention, and starts consuming your life, despite how much I was into racing it. &nbsp;But you sound dead set on getting one, so you should, they've come down quite a bit, hell i sold my '00 for $17,000, tell me that ain't a deal? &nbsp;
-will <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>

[DuffMan]

I dont think Travis wants to swap because he wont be able to race in the class he wants to (in addition to the fact that he'd loose money). It's not just about being the fastest car.

Go with the Miata. If you get an ITR now, and the RSX Type R comes out soon, the resalability of the ITR will plummet. Right now the ITR is the fastest track Honda you can get so its a hot item, but that wont last long.

[thewholefnshow]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DuffMan @ June 10 2002,1:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dont think Travis wants to swap because he wont be able to race in the class he wants to (in addition to the fact that he'd loose money). It's not just about being the fastest car.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
True. I don't think he said that though. but point taken &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>

[240 2NR]

Has anyone who keeps suggesting an engine swap realized that he plans to race this car competitively? &nbsp;Cars at the track are classed on point systems so taking a crx, shoving a big ass motor swap in it, putting on bigger brakes, coilovers, and all the other required modifications to rival a ITR, it will probably have him racing in a class above a stock ITR, and probably not as dialed in. &nbsp;

Travis I catch the same bug as you everytime I go to the track, but seeing the Spec Miata class race, I think I may have found my next project. &nbsp;The 240 will remain my street/Autox car for some time (as much as other cars catch my eye, the reasons I bought it in the first place remind me why I need to keep it. &nbsp;Good motor, rwd, great handling, lots of potential, huge trunk, reliability, and good looks), but I'm starting to think that if I want to get into W2W racing in the future, it would probably be in a SM.

I totally see your point about the ITR, but at the same time it's a lot of money for a race car. &nbsp;It's a tough choice especially when you haven't driven it yet.

If I were you I'd keep the 240, which makes up in coolness what it loses in performance, and then start aquiring your spec miata. &nbsp;And remember, for as dialed in as it may be, I bet the ITR still has torque steer.

[HippoSleek]

Actually, I think the new Celica is supposed to be as close as you can get to rwd... but I get the point. &nbsp;

As for the ability to keep up w/ an ITR in a 240... I agree that you are unlikely to beat an equal driver in an ITR vs. a 240 prepped like yours is. &nbsp;A few things come to mind here. &nbsp;First, you are at a 30 hp disadvantage - given the similar weights of the cars, an ITR should walk on you. &nbsp;Second, I think the ITR, out of the box, is prepared better than the 240 for the track - even w/ a set of Pro-Kits and some decent dampers (iirc, OEM ITR springs are higher rate than PKs). &nbsp;More on that below. &nbsp;Similarly, I don't think, given equal drivers, that any ITR will walk on any M3. &nbsp;There is a reason the 325 gets a penalty in all arenas it battles the ITR... imagine the m3.

abilty to mod and ITR
First off, I totally disagree that it is the sophistication of the platform that is the difference b/n an ITR and an s14. &nbsp;Fundamentally, there is very little difference b/n the Civic and the ITR. &nbsp;What IS better are the componant systems in the ITR. &nbsp;The brakes are shared by the NSX (down to the abs system). &nbsp;CA's are all beefier. &nbsp;The sway bars are bigger (and legendary in Honda land). &nbsp;The springs are higher rate (also legendary). &nbsp;The dampers are valved differently. &nbsp;Factory STBs. &nbsp;That's just off the top of my head. &nbsp;There is nothing in the design of the ITR that makes it better, rather it is in the parts used in the final product. &nbsp;What I tried to say earlier is not that it CAN'T be improved upon, but that to improve upon these systems is big $$$ and reduces the daily drivabilty of the car to virtually nil (unless you have something against your kidneys). &nbsp;There is certainly room to improve, but at a big cost!

motor
Okay, I'll give a certain amount of credit here. &nbsp;I miss seeing the tach whip past 7 (although I don't miss the anemic climb from 4). &nbsp;But like the other systems on the ITR, the motor is already pretty well done. &nbsp;Sure - a nice header, *slightly* freeer exhaust, and some Toda "B"s will do you right and return some hp. &nbsp;But not much. &nbsp;Keep in mind that everyone with a B-series motor pays top dollar for ITR motor parts - from the intake box to the cams. &nbsp;It's not that there is a shortage in the B-series aftermarket, it's just that that stuff is THAT good from the factory. &nbsp;Again - sure, you can improve it, but to do so requires parts that are both $$$ and not daily driver friendly.

Again, all this isn't to say that the ITR isn't a great car - it is. &nbsp;But I still think once you look at what it takes to make it better, the rewards are not as great for the amount of effort. &nbsp;That said, you can keep a car that is close (and could be as good or better) w/o blowing money (on lost recent depreciation) and keep honing your skills.

Mark
-who doesn't think anyone is too good for 9k rpm... but thinks some people don't need it

[240 2NR]

I don't know if it's just that the parts are good from the factory, so much as they all work well TOGETHER from the factory. &nbsp;When I was debating what suspension setup to get for my 240 (which isn't in yet so I can't say if it works as planned, but hopefully my assumptions will pan out) it was between piecing really high quality parts togther (like some Tein coilovers, sway bars, bushings etc), or just getting the whiteline kit. &nbsp;Looking at some other cars running them (an example is the 8 rsx's tested in SCC) I found that sometimes they hurt performance because as good as they are, the parts didn't work together or get dial in properly resulting in a worse sorted car. &nbsp;I'm sure it's possible to improve on the ITR, but my fear would be a lack of knowledge or funds to do so properly. &nbsp;It just seems like one of those cars where nothing is truly stellar on the car (I doubt on the surface there is anything most of us aren't doing with our 240's), but its the sum of those parts and how they are setup with little compromise that makes it such a nimble ride. &nbsp;The stiff chassis probably helps too (makes me really want a roll cage), and so does the gear box optimized for the engine and performance, instead of american highways.

Hopefully the whiteline kit really will be a setup engineered to work together (supposedly the Konis are valved specifically to the springs) and will cean up an already good handling car, by making it better, while still remaining a livable street car. &nbsp;My kit should be on in a week and will hopefully see track time that weekend so I should be quick to post results.

[HippoSleek]

Very well said 240 2nr.

I guess I really didn't mention that even though they are just regular old parts, they work particularly well a) with that car and b) with the other parts on it.

I want a review of that whiteline kit. &nbsp;I am too stupid to get one of those <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> , but I'm damb curious to know how well they work! &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[240 2NR]

Well, so far my review is that the kit is not difficult to order, just difficult to get (took 1.5 months and a lot of emails) but in the end (err, middle) I'm glad I did it. &nbsp;So many bushings, my car is going to feel brand new when it's all done.

[tnord]

ok.......here goes

luey-
i do not do swaps for many reasons.
1) downtime, it always takes longer than you think it will, and since i'm not a rich bastard, i don't have another car to drive around to work and class
2) cost, i don't care what the other guy did it for, it always costs more than you planed on
3) serviceability, how many shops you think are willing to work on an SR equipped 240? not many. not to mention the whole parts thing. while this isn't as big an issue with honda's, i'm sure any warranty you might have had is instantaniously gone.
4) it's a big f'n pain in the ass
5) as steve said.....swapping motors basically puts me in a class that requires a roll cage. now you want to talk about bad daily drivers?

and btw.....no it wasn't an E46 M3, it was a E36. it was a heavily modded itr with a decent driver vs a lightly modded M3 with shitty driver. but this was on a straight, so i don't want to hear about driver skill. and don't give me any of that exit speed bs.........that's not the point.

Punk
yes i have talked about doing a miata.......but never ever even mentioned tossing a rotary in anything.

show-
1) my car right now isn't rare as hell? i bet there are under 1k of them in the country, so that first point is irrelevant.
2) i doubt it'd get stolen in the western suburbs of minneapolis as much as anywhere in cali, or other places where people actually know what the hell they are. but a somewhat valid point.
3) insurance......haven't looked into it.
4) expensive as hell for nothing? i would beg to differ, ask any gearhead with half a brain and they'll tell you it isn't for nothing. but yes they are a bit pricey for what it really is. but hey, that's capitalism for you.

I DO NOT want this to be a race car. i think you guys have different definitions of a race car than i do. my current car is not a race car. having the "fastest" car isn't all it's about. my penis is not that small. if all i wanted was cheap speed i'd go buy an old F-body or conquest er somethin. i'm sure you know more about honda's than i do, but you still can't tell me what i find fun and rewarding. and the rotary miata and 510 comments, those were just blatant lies. and as was stated, each change may be minimal, but it's pretty apparant that quite a lot of time was spent in R&D to make sure the car is more than a sum of its parts.

will
i said "daily" driver. as in i will have other cars that i can drive. the spec miata is street legal, so that can be used, and the itr will be stored in the winter, so a $500 winter beater will also be around. rpm at 3500 when cruising, i'm sure mine isn't as loud as an itr, but at around 80mph where i cruise my car is at right around 3500. the whole theft thing, well, that's what insurance (which apparantly is expensive, but i don't see how it can be much more than my current car is) is for, and other precautions will have to be taken. you sold yours for 17k? shit, i probably woulda bought it if you still had it.

steve-
i don't want it for a race car. it would only be used for the occasional MCSCC autox, so long as i had a spec miata in the garage.
"If I were you I'd keep the 240, which makes up in coolness what it loses in performance"
coolness is a arbitrary judgement. i see the 240 as a car that isn't as fast as it looks, and that's not cool. and the itr as a car that is much faster than it should be, which is cool.

mark-
you're right, an itr won't take any M3, but i was just using that one specific instance to illustrate what a great car it is. you have to admit, even a drag racer should be able to pull away from an itr on a straight in an M3.
you're right on the money in your "ability to mod" section. only thing i may disagree with you is the cost of modifying. yes it may be more expensive than the 240, but i highly doubt it's in the same category as the german aftermarket.
i don't plan on doing anything more than bolt on components to any one of my street cars, so the basic things like i/h/e still improve the car, i doubt i'd go as far as different valves and valve springs and the like.

the itr may not be as great a car as i think it is. but i don't think the 240 is as great a car as some of you think either. i've just always had cars that aren't particularly rev happy (maxima, NAZ32, gen 1 GSX, lumina <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> , and 240), and the characteristics of the itr is something that appeals to me.

[wherezmytofu]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ June 09 2002,6:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i'll just have to cope with FWD. now to find one.

anybody want to buy mine?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
actually.......if u want....the honda integra had a 4wd model...the xsi 4wd that so it is actually a gs-r...b18c1...jdm only of course....but maybe u can scoop up a shell &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':cool:'> &nbsp;o yay i know a few b18c1's with 12.5cr and 11krmp rev limits....now thats n/a! &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>

[KyoLo]

i admit ITR is a fast ass with 9K+ rpm capibility, you have to understand Japanese ITR is 200HP but US ITR is not bad either, 195HP....but think about Japanese Silvia and US 240SX...HOLY SHIT, 220HP and 155HP, what the hell is wrong with those NISSAN PEOPLE? freaking 65HP difference? paying same amount of MONEY for the car but 65HP LESS?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>??they freaking need brain surgery for sure, smoke emission prob the most obvious reason, BUT just telling you as a comparison, 240SX is unfairly in disadvantage if you wanna compare your AMERICAN version of 240SX with close-to-Japan version ITR ....
So go buy your ITR, i'll save up for my M3 or G35 but i'll still keep my 240SX...

[thewholefnshow]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ June 10 2002,6:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">show-
1) my car right now isn't rare as hell? i bet there are under 1k of them in the country, so that first point is irrelevant.
2) i doubt it'd get stolen in the western suburbs of minneapolis as much as anywhere in cali, or other places where people actually know what the hell they are. but a somewhat valid point.
3) insurance......haven't looked into it.
4) expensive as hell for nothing? i would beg to differ, ask any gearhead with half a brain and they'll tell you it isn't for nothing. but yes they are a bit pricey for what it really is. but hey, that's capitalism for you.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Tnord just so you know, I got the rotory mazda idea because I remember you talking about buying a miata and an old rx7 at the same time. I may have misconstrued what you said into thinking you would use the rx7 engine, to make the miata faster... I know you talked about those two cars in the same post... and as for the 510, I never infered you talked about that, I am just saying that THAT would make one hell of a fast car around the track, and probably wipe everything even up in the higher classes....

And I know our cars are rare, but itr's just get stolen all the time, more than any car I have ever seen save the sir civic. Out of 3 people I know with type r's and civics, they were all stolen, this is more of a "looking out for fellow members" statement than meant to be inflamatory.