Good street setup, help!! (Whats your setup??)

[RalliartRsX]

Well, I have been delving into suspension research for a little over a month now and I think I have come up with a few (granted, very few) choices.
Springs/dampers - KTS coils (still accpeting options)
Wheels - 16x7 or 16x8 with +30 or below offset (Really dont want to run anything bigger for the simple fact of price)
Tires - Ehh, many choices. But, I have had a very good experience with the Azenis sport (215 type), Or ES100 from yokohama or Toyo T1-S(R). Really want to run atleast 205-50 (but much prefered 225-50 all around for some serious grip)
Suspension components - This is where I need help and have no clue.

After a few weeks of searching for coil reviews, I came to the KTS finale. But, since there are so many other things involved with the suspension on strut type cars (I had a 4 wheel independent setup on previous ride), there is still a bit more tackling involved (subframe bushings, TC rods, tie rods, camber arms, etc), I am still stumped on what else is needed for a properly setup daily driven setup (And this is sans various strut, lower arm, power, etc braces).

Once the car is lowered over an inch beyond factory ride height settings, the geometry becomes distorted and needs to be corrected. The toe is which I am most worried about for the simple fact of increased and uneven tire wear.

But, what do you guys recommend/use on your daily driven 240s??

Goals: Have a nicely setup street driven suspension, good grip, predictable and smooth. I wont be doing any 'touge' or whatever its called as all my spirited driving (or atleast most sans on-off ramps) will be relegated to auto-x and (money permits) HPDE, period

Sorry for the long post, I am just extra anal when it comes to my suspension setup and any car

P.S Will be looking into running atleast a VLSD and also accepting recommendations on wheel offsets/wheel width for good flushness but not some super low offsets to put unecessary loads on wheel bearings.

Thanks

[1mns13]

I'd recommend reading the whiteline.com.au articles on your specific chassis S13 or S14

[OptionZero]

street setup:

get some falken FK-451's (one step below max max summer tires, cheap)

get the adjustable suspension arms w/o pillow balls, there was a thread on fresh alloy


some 6/4 coilovers, maybe tein flex or custom spring rates from eibach on a ground contrl /koni steup

upgraded sways and endlinks

s15 HLSD

basically if u wanna favor the street over the track, stay away from pillowball mounts, super low profile tires, super high spring rates, and clutch diffs that need maintenance

[EchoOfSilence]

street setup:

get some falken FK-451's (one step below max max summer tires, cheap)

get the adjustable suspension arms w/o pillow balls, there was a thread on fresh alloy


some 6/4 coilovers, maybe tein flex or custom spring rates from eibach on a ground contrl /koni steup

upgraded sways and endlinks

s15 HLSD

basically if u wanna favor the street over the track, stay away from pillowball mounts, super low profile tires, super high spring rates, and clutch diffs that need maintenance
I thought fk451's were falken's generic-type tire just above ziex's?

[RalliartRsX]

As for the rediculously high rates, I am in all ways staying away from em'. My plan, if I want something to rotate, I will just tune it with some adjustable sway bars and tire pressures. No reason to have such massive rates for a daily grind. But, I wont need such rediculous rotation on the street, would I now:o

I wanted to run the koni yellow/gc combo as my last car had said setup and it was amazing. Plus, koni is the company when it comes to suspension needs. But, alas, for the price of a nice set with either springs or gc coils, I am better off just getting a full coilover kit for a fraction more. Plus, a few short comings with the yellow/gc setup. Rear has to be taken off car to adjust damping, hacking up the front strut (albeit, fairly easy job, but........), still have to get upper camber plates, etc. Once I get all those, I could already have a nice shiny new set of KTS coils. Plus, once I learn to read shock dynos (with the aid of a guy from koni), I will be comparing the yellows to the kts.

[OptionZero]

I thought fk451's were falken's generic-type tire just above ziex's?


no

RT615: autox, track, hardcore summer dry only performance
FK451: surrender a little performance for treadwear and wet traction'
ST115: all season tire trying to be performance tire
Ziex512: all season crap

FK452: unknown

[A Spec Products]

no

RT615: autox, track, hardcore summer dry only performance
FK451: surrender a little performance for treadwear and wet traction'
ST115: all season tire trying to be performance tire
Ziex512: all season crap

FK452: unknown

just FYI they are discontinuing the ST115

all of a sudden my tire distributor is replacing them with FK452, i cant get ST115 anymore

the 452 is "luxury sport" tire which means ehhh blahhh

read: http://www.fk452.com/

the 452 replaces the 451 and sorta replaces the ST115 as well for now

maybe someone who knows falken can chime in

as far as your setup goes (in order)

1. S14 seats and manual belts
2. coilovers or spring / shock (id recommend coilover because in the future the adjustability will be worth it)
3. tension rods / strut tower bar
4. 16x7/8 (offset in the teens i guess, you'll probably need a spacer since most 16x7/8s are crap offset)
5. F 205/55/16 & R 225/50/16 (st115 or ziex512 if you are on budget)
6. Steering wheel and hub (get rid of the stock crap), oh and shift knob too
7. VLSD i guess if you find one cheap

thats all you really "need" to have a clean conservative daily setup...camber arms not really cause stock arms should still have enough adjustment

just mod your car slowly, no need to rush and blow money, just get the bare minimum to do the job

[battle max]

the 452 replaces the 451 and sorta replaces the ST115 as well for now

maybe someone who knows falken can chime in


That much is true the FK452 tire did replace the st115 and FK451 (although certain sizes are still available in both treads). The tread wear on the tire is similar to the fk451 (280 treadwear A traction AA) and performance wise is only a few steps behind the 615. There is over 50 sizes from 16 inch all the way to 22's. Even have 21 inch sizes go figure. Although the tire is marketed as a luxury VIP type tire drivers like calvin wan and chris forsberg run these tires on both the G and the Z with rave reviews. Ive ran these tires in both the canyons and at a drift day wth no complaints. Alright enough of my rant hope this clears up some questions. :fruit:

[EchoOfSilence]

so fk451/2 > kumho mx for example?

[A Spec Products]

That much is true the FK452 tire did replace the st115 and FK451 (although certain sizes are still available in both treads).

Yeah, I called my tire distributor today to ask them about it.

They said its NOT technically "discontinued" (the ST115), but Falken discontinued certain sizes.

But when I look at all the sizes, they don't have 215/45 or 235/40 so that sucks.

[A Spec Products]

That much is true the FK452 tire did replace the st115 and FK451 (although certain sizes are still available in both treads).

Yeah, I called my tire distributor today to ask them about it.

They said its NOT technically "discontinued" (the ST115), but Falken discontinued certain sizes.

But when I look at all the sizes, they don't have 215/45R17 or 235/40R17 so that sucks.

[ManoNegra]

That sucks to hear. Just got a set of ST115s (235 x 40 x 17) and, although I haven't driven them hard yet, I'm pleased so far with their performance as a daily tires.

[chmercer]

Im running KTS coilovers and all splparts control arms on my daily, it rides very good. similar to my dads z06. I think people complain about crappy rides because half the time they have unmatched dampers and springs so it goes all bouncy, you wont get that feeling when running coilovers.

on tires, i would stay away from es100. that tire is so freaking old. like 7 years old, totally ridiculous. what optionzero said regarding st115 being an all season tire is wrong. very good performance from thoes tires for the money. regardless, the next set of tires that i will be getting is fk452. i need to check the load ratings, but i liked fk451 and the 452 comes in good sizes so ill probably give it a shot.

on toe you can get the front in spec with no aftermarket parts, the rear can go a good distance on the stock eccentric bolts but you might consider getting some aftermarket toe links if you lower your car a lot. they are 228 shipped from spl.

[KOUKI KA-T]

^^^^ Totally agree with what chmercer said.
I run KTS coilovers, rear heim jointed arms and full poly subframe mounts (not spacers or collars). It rides beautifully, very solid and comfortable, even the girlie agrees. I also have the Nismo motor mounts, and the tranny mount which I filled with poly as it was still too soft (shifter would wobble all over the place when I broke traction)
The only thing I found too harsh for my tastes as a DD were heim jointed front tension rods, I swapped mine out for stock arms with the Nismo bushings instead and was much happier.
As far as wheels and tires, it's 17x9 +20's all around on 235-40 rs2's (love these tires!)
1.6 degrees camber and 0 toe in the rear
1.5 degrees camber and .04 toe up front
(completely stock fenders front and rear, no rubbing.)

I think this should answer about every question you could ask about my setup :x:

[m0rex]

I'm really hating my suspension setup right now due too the around my area having cracks and holes the size of the grand cayon. I'll give you some tips though that would have helped me when i started setting my suspension up.

Tires make a lot of difference to the feel of the suspension, choose wisely. Get wide wheels if you can afford them or afford them somehow, better regretting it 1 week later. Get a good tire pressure gauge.

Pillowball tension rods don't work for street at all. Don't brace the front more than the rear unless you want massive amounts of understeer. If you get a sway bar just get a rear one because the stock front one is more than enough. Set the suspension up according to what you want; understeer or oversteer.

Tighten everything atleast twice once its in. Get an aligment once you are sure that you ain't going to do anymore suspension work.

Get some good seats to hold you (something i haven't done yet that i really want to get done). Have fun!

[battle max]

Yeah, I called my tire distributor today to ask them about it.

They said its NOT technically "discontinued" (the ST115), but Falken discontinued certain sizes.

But when I look at all the sizes, they don't have 215/45 or 235/40 so that sucks.

Yea basically Falken had stock and sold what they had and didnt reorder because of the 452. Obviously people in our area of interest sucked up the popular sizes first. But once a size sells out they are pretty much gone.

[OptionZero]

st-115 has like a 320 wear rating, which leads me to think it can't be too performance oriented.
Take note i'm talking about for outright grip, not its chuckability in drifting, which demands different characteristics.

for pure grip, the FK-452's "luxury tire" branding gets a thumbs down for me.

The MX has been compared to the RT-series, but reverse weaknesses. The RT is godly when cold, and suffers when hot. the MX is weaksauce when cold (and new), but excellent when warmed up and worn down a bit. Both are probably the best money-for-track performance tire you can get. The next level up would be BF Goodrich KD's, Bridgestone S03's...then you get the Neovas and RE-01s that are trackday specials

[lilredstiffy]

The st-115 does have a high rating but from my experience its got way more grip than anything else comparable. I've been pleased with it for autox, some minor track stuff, and of course drifting is where its really a perfect tire

Better than es100, fm901, nitto anything, etc. Cream of the crop for this bracket of performance

The next step up in grip are all the other tires you mentioned- rt615, neova, re01, etc- but these are definitely high wear

[m0rex]

I wore out my rt615 fast but it was well worth it.

[zads]

RT615s are NOT for the track.. they overheat and wear out much too quickly.

As for my street/auto-x setup,
I have KTS 8/6 coilovers on a S13.
Stock front bar, removed rear bar.
225 front, 235 rear Bridgestone Potenza Tires (going to rt-615s soon)
S15 HLSD
Front camber: -4.0 degrees
Rear camber: -1.5 degrees (could use a little more)

It feels pretty good as is.. fairly neutral handling. Very sharp turn-in, even tread wear front/rear.

[Dunkee]

It's not the spring rate thatll get ya, it's the dampners. I have Tein and they sure is hell didn't get it right and the spring rates are not high at all. If you don't lower it that much it won't be as bad though. I had HEs before and raised them at stock ride height for winter and it wasn't bone jarring a little stiffer than stock...when you lower the suspension travel you will feel the stiffness. If you're comparing KTS to Konis in terms of ride quality, you're in for a rude awakening!

Higher tire pressure adds to stiffer ride as well. As for wheels, if you don't want low offset, youll need wider wheels. If you don't want to get too crazy stick to 8in fr 9in back or both 8in. +25 offset is safe...if you get 9in rear you can go higher offset. Won't be as flush as some of the purists on here but will still look better than stock.

Anything pillowball sacrifices ride quality for performance assuming you are on a smooth road. You can get the adjustable tie rods to adjust toe...and you might need adjustable rear control arms to adjust rear camber depending how low you go. Adjustable TC rods adjust caster. All adjustable pieces are pillowball as well as coilovers so know what you are getting yourself into.

[zads]

Also, I should add that the KTS coilovers are a little stiff for the street, though you get used to it (and you avoid any bumps/potholes like the plague)..

But they are a good stiffness for autocross. (at zero preload)

[RalliartRsX]

Thanks for all the replies guys!!

Heres an update:


Well, decided to go with 15inch wheels and call it a day. I love how the 17 fill the well, but I have to think long run. I will be in school and not have extra cash laying around so if something happens (hit a large rut or something) I probably wont be able to afford replacing the wheels. Plus, I readily have access to tires for cheap in 15 inch variant as compared to 17 inch. Tires, probably 205-55 or 225-50 all the way around

But, suspension mods will be put off for a while as there are other issues to attend to currently in the suspensions (namely, tie-rods). So, will still be doing loads of reasearch and such. But, I think I also have made another choice(or narrowe ddown selection).

Stance or KTS coilovers it is :D