View Full Version : What are FAKE/ REAL coilovers?
HKrpS13
06-02-2002, 02:29 PM
What or which ones are fake coillovers? I always thought the fake coilovers are the ones you just put it over the shocks/struts like sleeves, and the real ones are the ones like TEIN's where the shock/strut are together with the springs. Am I right or am I totaly wrong?
Yoshi
06-02-2002, 02:55 PM
I'd say you're 90% correct.
The only sleeve type coilovers I've seen that are worth anything are the Ground Controls. They use Eibach produced linear springs, and are available in the custom compression rates of your choice (or manufacturer's recommendation), in 10lb increments. All the other I've seen are crap, and god knows where their springs come from, what their rates are, or their quality. I also HATE spanner wrenches <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
If you can afford it, full coils like Tein HA's etc are the way to go (racing that is, not for street)
rotaryknight
06-02-2002, 03:11 PM
Yoshi is pretty much correct. I'm really a firm believer in you get what you pay for and I HATE sleeves because they just makes people who don't assume they are geting "coilovers."
I do agree that Ground Control are an exception. They have actually tried to make a true substitute to a coilover system. Problem is though they offer dirrerent spring rates you still have to find out what is the best for the shocks you will be running them with.
Coilover systems are already setup and balanced for you with spring and dampening rates....good or bad.
I just hate seeing, people buy VIS, APC, Tenzo R or AeroSpeed and think they are actually getting something remotly the same as a true coilover system.
HKrpS13
06-02-2002, 05:01 PM
So are you guys saying that all non sleeve coilovers (including groumd control and some sleeve coilovers made in japan) are real (good).
rotaryknight
06-02-2002, 05:39 PM
Wait, don't you work at Shine Street? You guys carry KG/mm those are great coilovers.
We are not saying the GC suck, but they are an alternative to $2k coilover systems...but you still get what you pay for.
Yoshi
06-02-2002, 05:53 PM
I'm in no way saying GC's are crap, on the contrary, I have GC's on my car, w/KYB AGX shock, the springs are matched to suit them.
Not all full coils are good either, that I'd know less about, but I do know that they're not all the same.
It all really depends on your application. my car is my commuter (tho only 2miles each way). The roads where I live suck, so lowering my car too much was not an option. I also wanted to have linear springs, cuz progressives feel squishy to me, and are meant more for comfortable daily driving and street racing than AutoX or drift. Full coils would've made daily driving pretty uncomfortable where I live, so I chose the happy medium. GC's and AGX. TOTALLY worth it to me, I don't know anyone in my area that can outhandle my car <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
1997 240SX SE
06-02-2002, 07:41 PM
Good Timing on this topic. I planned to lower my car this week or next and I wasn't sure which brand or type of system to get. I don't have $2k to spend but can someone recommend a decent set of GCs? I think I would be best with the set up Yoshi has. I live in Boston and the roads suck. I probably wouldn't lower it anymore than 2" except if I have it in a show then I'll slam it down as far as possible. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
MrMigs
06-03-2002, 12:07 AM
Wait who works at Shine Street? I've been looking for some KGMM springs
(S21 SuperSports for S14 -- 4.8 kg/mm front; 4.0kg/mm rear)
And yea... ive been having a hard time finding someone who can sell them to me. If someone could gimme a phone number for the store... or if one of the employees could reply to this, that would be cool as hell.
HKrpS13
06-03-2002, 03:06 AM
I work at Shine Street Mr.Migs. I'll look up the price and avilability on Tuesdy, when I get to work. JIC, please email me at
[email protected] with what you want to know so that I don't forget.
MrMigs
06-03-2002, 03:04 PM
thanks.
jyt747
06-03-2002, 04:32 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (1997 240SX SE @ June 01 2002,9:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Good Timing on this topic. I planned to lower my car this week or next and I wasn't sure which brand or type of system to get. I don't have $2k to spend but can someone recommend a decent set of GCs? I think I would be best with the set up Yoshi has. I live in Boston and the roads suck. I probably wouldn't lower it anymore than 2" except if I have it in a show then I'll slam it down as far as possible. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The AGX's still aren't out for the S14 yet, as far as I know. Yoshi's got an S13, that's why he's able to get them. If you want adjustables, try koni.
drifterx
06-03-2002, 05:05 PM
i agree with most of u... i dont respect sleeve coilovers because they all have a shorter spring resulting in less of a ride.... but they are an alternative to dampering systems like Apexi, Tein, tanabe and others....
but you do pay for what you get....
think this way
$350 for sleeve ground controls...
+ 425 for AGX
=$775
why dont u just get the Apexi WS for $1000
Yoshi
06-03-2002, 05:34 PM
well for me, the answer would be, cuz they don't have adjustable dampening <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>
HKrpS13
06-03-2002, 07:31 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (drifterx @ June 03 2002,4:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i agree with most of u... i dont respect sleeve coilovers because they all have a shorter spring resulting in less of a ride.... but they are an alternative to dampering systems like Apexi, Tein, tanabe and others....
but you do pay for what you get....
think this way
$350 for sleeve ground controls...
+ 425 for AGX
=$775
why dont u just get the Apexi WS for $1000</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Wouldn't the short soft springs, like the ones like on the TEIN HA & HR, give a nice and stable ride even with the fake coilovers? Isn't that what it's made for?
drift freaq
06-03-2002, 07:40 PM
Tein does sell springs they have the S tech line wich comes in soft medium and hard for $130 a set . Of course these are made for struts and not coilovers. Ground Controls are not a bad way to go . I considered them but I am leaning seriiously toward HA's because you can get a fairly good deal on them . Not that much more than Ground Controls.
bc240sx
06-03-2002, 07:54 PM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (drift freaq @ June 03 2002,8:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tein does sell springs they have the S tech line wich comes in soft medium and hard for $130 a set . Of course these are made for struts and not coilovers. Ground Controls are not a bad way to go . I considered them but I am leaning seriiously toward HA's because you can get a fairly good deal on them . Not that much more than Ground Controls.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Dats rigth dave.. Go with Tein HA's i love them soo much , but somehow they're kina noisy tho.. but all aftermarket parts are never quite heheh ./.. zoom zoom zoom
drifterx
06-04-2002, 12:44 AM
make sure u Anti seize the Tein cuz i heard they rust
HippoSleek
06-04-2002, 07:17 AM
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Yoshi @ June 02 2002,6:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm in no way saying GC's are crap, on the contrary, I have GC's on my car, w/KYB AGX shock, the springs are matched to suit them.
Not all full coils are good either, that I'd know less about, but I do know that they're not all the same.
It all really depends on your application. my car is my commuter (tho only 2miles each way). The roads where I live suck, so lowering my car too much was not an option. I also wanted to have linear springs, cuz progressives feel squishy to me, and are meant more for comfortable daily driving and street racing than AutoX or drift. Full coils would've made daily driving pretty uncomfortable where I live, so I chose the happy medium. GC's and AGX. TOTALLY worth it to me, I don't know anyone in my area that can outhandle my car <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I'm 100% w/ Yoshi on this one. I think a GC set up is a *better* application if you know what you are doing.
GC lets you chose from about any spring rate. If you know what you are doing, you can perfectly set up your car. As for being too short for shocks/struts - you can order longer springs and keep the thing at factory height, but have it handle like a go-kart if you want. No, you can't drop it to the weeds and expect it to handle like a racecar, but you can make a reasonable height ajustment and maintain plenty of travel. As for the springs themselves - a linear rate spring is a linear rate spring as long as it is from a company that is capable of making one right. I trust Eibach and Tein - so there is no advantage on the spring itself.
If you want, you can go one step further and get short stroke dampers (vary by application, so I won't list). With these, you can go just as low as Teins and other full coil systems (except the $2500 sets where lowering is done using the mount, not the perch) and have just as much travel. Good dampers matched with good rates give you more options than out of the box Teins, etc. (although you can get different rates for those, you can't just order new springs off the shelf like you can from GC).
So, w/ GC's, not only do you get just as much performance and just as much tunability. You also get to buy/service parts individually should a damper blow, w/o having to wait for Japan to fix the unit.
Yoshi
06-04-2002, 10:51 AM
Yup!
Good example, I killed one of my shocks the other day (no, not by drifting into a curb or anything), and I have to rebuild it, i'll be done by this weekend, no waiting for parts from japan <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
It should be noted tho, that if you go with AGX's, as opposed to some other shocks, that the front shocks require cutting off of the stock spring perch, which in turn voids your warrantee. Initially a pain, but the cutting torch is my friend <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
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