The fabrication thread. - Page 82 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

GSXRJJordan · 11-16-2009, 01:02 AM

Finally got some work done on the JefeS14 today... started with a XS Power (SS Auto Chrome) RB25 turbo elbow that hit the steering column hardcore. Sectioned it, and was able to get it welded back up nicely with my trusty wire-feed. I was really worried I wouldn't be able to weld up the stainless with the flux-core, but it worked nicely, minus the mess.

Sectioned

Tacked

Testing clearance, bingo!

Welded up - not bad!

Nice and even penetration!

Was way easier to weld than I thought. Next step is chopping the flange, welding in a couple mild steel pie cuts, the mild steel flex section, and then the wastegate tube with it's flex section.

Anyone see any problems welding mild to stainless with flux core?

[email protected] · 11-16-2009, 08:15 AM

yea you can do it with flux, it isnt the strongest but it will work...

Devil Man · 11-16-2009, 10:03 AM

wow does it fit that close to the steering colum cause of where the rb motor sits in the S14? i have a rb turbo that i plan on using for my ka and after looking at your picture i am kinda scared. think i might run into that issue?

gsracer · 11-16-2009, 10:55 AM

thats miles of clearance........

GSXRJJordan · 11-16-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil Man

wow does it fit that close to the steering colum cause of where the rb motor sits in the S14? i have a rb turbo that i plan on using for my ka and after looking at your picture i am kinda scared. think i might run into that issue?

It came nowhere NEAR fitting before I chopped it and sectioned it... you have to remember that (nearly) all Skylines were RHD, so no steering column to deal with.

The other option to clear it is to find a non-divorced elbow and just weld in a couple inches of 3" tubing, to bring the exit closer to the firewall ~ that's how the Syko elbows were, and they cleared the LHD steering column.

It would all depend on your manifold placement in the end though.

blu808 · 11-16-2009, 03:03 PM

Jeff. You can't weld stainless with flux core. It will break.

GSXRJJordan · 11-16-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

Jeff. You can't weld stainless with flux core. It will break.

Fuck, that's what I'm afraid of lol - it looked so good and sturdy though!

Good thing it's all temporary, just has to last until I take it up there for twin-scroll action!

Om1kron · 11-16-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

Jeff. You can't weld stainless with flux core. It will break.

It's jeff though!!!

*Jonnie Fraz* · 11-16-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil Man

Amazing job with lowering the seat too!

Thanks! Luke got to sit in it on Sunday....He looked like a little kid behind the wheel...lol. Seriously I sat in his seat and there is a foot of clearance between my head and the roof.

[email protected] · 11-16-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan

Fuck, that's what I'm afraid of lol - it looked so good and sturdy though!

Good thing it's all temporary, just has to last until I take it up there for twin-scroll action!

put a flex pipe and you will be fine......

GSXRJJordan · 11-16-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Om1kron

It's jeff though!!!

Lol this isnt one of my crazy schemes, there's actually a decent amount of text online saying that for automotive applications (no pressure), flux core is alright for welding stainless to mild steel. If it made a huge difference, I'd go buy a bottle of 70/30 and use my MIG wire, but I've heard that it doesn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

put a flex pipe and you will be fine......

That's what I'm hoping! Like I said, it's temporary

Hopefully only a month or so.

bardabe · 11-16-2009, 05:58 PM

I agree with Luke, it'll break get another one and get it done right.

atutt · 11-16-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

Jeff. You can't weld stainless with flux core. It will break.

I think this is the first thing I disagree with you on.

They make SS flux core wire. It ain't cheap. It works like a charm. Far superior to MIG'ing it.

But I've also done it in structural applications..

blu808 · 11-16-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atutt

I think this is the first thing I disagree with you on.

They make SS flux core wire. It ain't cheap. It works like a charm. Far superior to MIG'ing it.

But I've also done it in structural applications..

I agree with you there. I should say that I knew Jeff was using regular flux wire.

GSXRJJordan · 11-17-2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

I agree with you there. I should say that I knew Jeff was using regular flux wire.

Hahaha, "I knew Jeff was using the crappiest equipment possible with his mediocre skills".

What's the consensus on grabbing a bottle of 70/30 and using my MIG wire? Better than flux core?

blu808 · 11-17-2009, 02:21 PM

Shielded will almost always be better than fluxcore. Fluxcore is better in outdoor applications where your shielding gas would get blown away by the wind.

If you used shielded setup with stainless wire then it should work. The problem with mig welding stainless (and 4130) is that you will tend to put too much heat into the metal and it will result in cracking. Stainless develops a condition called sugaring. If you look at the picture you posted of your penetration, all those weld marks inside the pipe are all considered to be sugaring. One way of telling is by looking at it closely. If it looks hella pourous then you have likely sugared the work piece.

GSXRJJordan · 11-17-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blu808

Shielded will almost always be better than fluxcore. Fluxcore is better in outdoor applications where your shielding gas would get blown away by the wind.

If you used shielded setup with stainless wire then it should work. The problem with mig welding stainless (and 4130) is that you will tend to put too much heat into the metal and it will result in cracking. Stainless develops a condition called sugaring. If you look at the picture you posted of your penetration, all those weld marks inside the pipe are all considered to be sugaring. One way of telling is by looking at it closely. If it looks hella pourous then you have likely sugared the work piece.

Yeah I'm familiar with the term ~ the weld itself looked pretty solid and uniform, but the surface on the inside where I didn't wire-wheel looks sugared. I've also heard about MIG'n stainless to stainless with stainless wire, but what wire/gas would I use for mild to stainless? Opinions on the welding forums seem to be mixed, with the consensus being that mild wire and 70/30 is fine for automotive (low pressure).

Thoughts?

mkomar24 · 11-17-2009, 04:57 PM

You will probably be ok on that weld but I would put in a flex pipe for sure. I have fluxed and mig'ed 304ss to mild and ss to ss with mixed but generally acceptable results. TIG is prefered and is necessary on headers or manifolds but for exhaust flux or mig will often work. If you use flux or mild wire you will also get rust on the joint over time where as ss filler will keep the whole deal shiny as the alloy is pure throughout. To prevent sugaring you need less heat and you should backpurge all SS joints when possible. You can make a simple rig to do this by using small foam balls and a hose. Just jam the foam balls into the two ends of the pipe (away from the joint lol) and stick a rubber hose in alongside one ball, hook the other end to a tee and hook the tee inline with the gas line on you regulator. The gas flows behind the joint, stays between the balls for the most part and keeps oxygen from contaminating the reverse side of the weld.

duffman1278 · 11-17-2009, 09:49 PM

Question about welders. I'm looking into buying myself a TIG machine and for the price I cannot afford the dynasty series welders, so I was looking at getting a Diversion 165 which are about 1200$ or a Syncrowave 180SD used. Reading up on the reviews the Diversion seems to be a legit TIG but what are your opinions between choosing one or the other. I realize the Diversion is lighter and more compact but I would still have to purchase the tank and regulator.

The syncrowave I'm looking at comes with the foot pedal,torch, ground, tank, and cart for 1400$

mkomar24 · 11-18-2009, 12:40 AM

Go for the syncrowave. That price is killer with a pedal and bottle. You really want a pedal IMHO I can't control heat worth shit with the finger control although it works well for welding upside down. If you really need that though just have a friend work the pedal while you lay down, crude but works. For upright welding the pedal is boss.

longfellow · 11-18-2009, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan

Yeah I'm familiar with the term ~ the weld itself looked pretty solid and uniform, but the surface on the inside where I didn't wire-wheel looks sugared. I've also heard about MIG'n stainless to stainless with stainless wire, but what wire/gas would I use for mild to stainless? Opinions on the welding forums seem to be mixed, with the consensus being that mild wire and 70/30 is fine for automotive (low pressure).

Thoughts?

I actually just welded some mild steel to SS the other weekend. I used SS wire and 70/30 mix and made sure I had the best ground possible and went to work. Welds came out nice and even with pretty much no splatter. I'm very new to welding but I was happy with the results I had.

ka-titties · 11-18-2009, 10:41 AM

tig welds mild to SS real well lol

longfellow · 11-18-2009, 11:47 AM

I forgot to mention that I mig'd that not tig'd

*MELLO*SOS* · 11-18-2009, 04:31 PM

You might want to look for a Sync 250 or at least a Sync 200 for around the same price. You'll have more amps and can weld thicker material. But they are all good machines.

*MELLO*SOS* · 11-18-2009, 04:34 PM

Got my little collection of welders moved to the new shop:

^ PM215, PM215, Syncrowave 200, Millermatic 140

Ran a couple beads on the new PowerMIG 215 on a bracket for a window cage:

I really like the PM215 so far compared to my MM..

^ Also bought an upgrade Bernard Q-Gun for the PM, with a 15 lead, new liner, centerfire tip. And scored a Tweco copper ground clamp... Everybody loves upgradings!

Anyone else using one of these Bernard guns?

ka-titties · 11-18-2009, 05:58 PM

lucky bastard. thats a lot of dough in welding equipment right there.

ballinnmiami240sx · 11-18-2009, 08:26 PM

Drill press on special from Harbor freight $59

Harbor freight hydraulic press $129
Ebay 4140 .75 dimple die $40

=

Dope Status Dimples

PerilousActs · 11-18-2009, 08:30 PM

^^ I was gonna do the same exact tool setup for dimples for the cage I will be building.

Did you have any issues?

ballinnmiami240sx · 11-18-2009, 08:37 PM

Not at all. make sure to buy some cutting oil and then go to town. I think I drilled about 50 holes with that harbor freight step drill bit and it still cuts awesome. Im building 3 more cages to compete in USdrift events and hopefully it will hold up. I took it easy on the drill press. Its built really cheap, but it does the job if you take your time.

SANdisk · 11-18-2009, 10:26 PM

Not my work, i just wanted to share this. Ti turbo manifold=badass

http://http://s565.photobucket.com/a...rx1/?start=320

11-16-2009, 01:02 AM	#2431
GSXRJJordan Post Whore! Join Date: May 2006 Location: << 626 >> Posts: 9,135 Trader Rating: (19) Rides Gallery: GSXRJJordan Feedback Score: 19 reviews	Finally got some work done on the JefeS14 today... started with a XS Power (SS Auto Chrome) RB25 turbo elbow that hit the steering column hardcore. Sectioned it, and was able to get it welded back up nicely with my trusty wire-feed. I was really worried I wouldn't be able to weld up the stainless with the flux-core, but it worked nicely, minus the mess. Sectioned Tacked Testing clearance, bingo! Welded up - not bad! Nice and even penetration! Was way easier to weld than I thought. Next step is chopping the flange, welding in a couple mild steel pie cuts, the mild steel flex section, and then the wastegate tube with it's flex section. Anyone see any problems welding mild to stainless with flux core? __________________ Jordan Innovations has a new web site! www.JordanInnovations.com -- All your favorite FD Pro Drifters love it, trust me -- www.JordanInnovations.com

11-16-2009, 10:55 AM	#2434
gsracer Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami Age: 37 Posts: 1,579 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	thats miles of clearance........ __________________ ANTI-STRETCH NAZI Vortech Supercharged Vh45de S14 V8nissans.com

11-16-2009, 03:03 PM	#2436
blu808 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Campbell, Ca Age: 38 Posts: 5,010 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Jeff. You can't weld stainless with flux core. It will break. __________________

11-16-2009, 05:58 PM	#2442
bardabe Post Whore! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: SoCal Age: 31 Posts: 4,716 Trader Rating: (10) Rides Gallery: bardabe Feedback Score: 10 reviews	I agree with Luke, it'll break get another one and get it done right. __________________ Review Thread

11-17-2009, 02:21 PM	#2446
blu808 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Campbell, Ca Age: 38 Posts: 5,010 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Shielded will almost always be better than fluxcore. Fluxcore is better in outdoor applications where your shielding gas would get blown away by the wind. If you used shielded setup with stainless wire then it should work. The problem with mig welding stainless (and 4130) is that you will tend to put too much heat into the metal and it will result in cracking. Stainless develops a condition called sugaring. If you look at the picture you posted of your penetration, all those weld marks inside the pipe are all considered to be sugaring. One way of telling is by looking at it closely. If it looks hella pourous then you have likely sugared the work piece. __________________

11-16-2009, 08:15 AM	#2432
[email protected] Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: 310 all day! Age: 40 Posts: 912 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	yea you can do it with flux, it isnt the strongest but it will work...

11-17-2009, 04:57 PM	#2448
mkomar24 Leaky Injector Join Date: May 2008 Location: St. Louis Posts: 97 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	You will probably be ok on that weld but I would put in a flex pipe for sure. I have fluxed and mig'ed 304ss to mild and ss to ss with mixed but generally acceptable results. TIG is prefered and is necessary on headers or manifolds but for exhaust flux or mig will often work. If you use flux or mild wire you will also get rust on the joint over time where as ss filler will keep the whole deal shiny as the alloy is pure throughout. To prevent sugaring you need less heat and you should backpurge all SS joints when possible. You can make a simple rig to do this by using small foam balls and a hose. Just jam the foam balls into the two ends of the pipe (away from the joint lol) and stick a rubber hose in alongside one ball, hook the other end to a tee and hook the tee inline with the gas line on you regulator. The gas flows behind the joint, stays between the balls for the most part and keeps oxygen from contaminating the reverse side of the weld.

11-17-2009, 09:49 PM	#2449
duffman1278 Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Covina Age: 33 Posts: 2,844 Trader Rating: (8) Rides Gallery: duffman1278 Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Question about welders. I'm looking into buying myself a TIG machine and for the price I cannot afford the dynasty series welders, so I was looking at getting a Diversion 165 which are about 1200$ or a Syncrowave 180SD used. Reading up on the reviews the Diversion seems to be a legit TIG but what are your opinions between choosing one or the other. I realize the Diversion is lighter and more compact but I would still have to purchase the tank and regulator. The syncrowave I'm looking at comes with the foot pedal,torch, ground, tank, and cart for 1400$ __________________

11-18-2009, 12:40 AM	#2450
mkomar24 Leaky Injector Join Date: May 2008 Location: St. Louis Posts: 97 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Go for the syncrowave. That price is killer with a pedal and bottle. You really want a pedal IMHO I can't control heat worth shit with the finger control although it works well for welding upside down. If you really need that though just have a friend work the pedal while you lay down, crude but works. For upright welding the pedal is boss.

11-18-2009, 10:41 AM	#2452
ka-titties Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Near that guy you know Posts: 1,561 Trader Rating: (11) Feedback Score: 11 reviews	tig welds mild to SS real well lol

11-18-2009, 11:47 AM	#2453
longfellow Zilvia Addict Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Tampa Area Posts: 606 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	I forgot to mention that I mig'd that not tig'd __________________ http://timeattackdan.blogspot.com/

11-18-2009, 04:31 PM	#2454
MELLOSOS* LAID OUT Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: LAS VEGAS Age: 39 Posts: 2,015 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: MELLO*SOS Feedback Score: 1 reviews	You might want to look for a Sync 250 or at least a Sync 200 for around the same price. You'll have more amps and can weld thicker material. But they are all good machines.

11-18-2009, 04:34 PM	#2455
MELLOSOS* LAID OUT Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: LAS VEGAS Age: 39 Posts: 2,015 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: MELLO*SOS Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Got my little collection of welders moved to the new shop: ^ PM215, PM215, Syncrowave 200, Millermatic 140 Ran a couple beads on the new PowerMIG 215 on a bracket for a window cage: I really like the PM215 so far compared to my MM.. ^ Also bought an upgrade Bernard Q-Gun for the PM, with a 15 lead, new liner, centerfire tip. And scored a Tweco copper ground clamp... Everybody loves upgradings! Anyone else using one of these Bernard guns?

11-18-2009, 05:58 PM	#2456
ka-titties Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Near that guy you know Posts: 1,561 Trader Rating: (11) Feedback Score: 11 reviews	lucky bastard. thats a lot of dough in welding equipment right there.

11-18-2009, 08:26 PM	#2457
ballinnmiami240sx Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: gloucester, VA Age: 42 Posts: 517 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	Drill press on special from Harbor freight $59 Harbor freight hydraulic press $129 Ebay 4140 .75 dimple die $40 = Dope Status Dimples __________________ 1994 FD3S Drift // 945garage // sumospeed.com

11-18-2009, 08:30 PM	#2458
PerilousActs Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Walton, Kentucky Age: 30 Posts: 545 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	^^ I was gonna do the same exact tool setup for dimples for the cage I will be building. Did you have any issues?

11-18-2009, 08:37 PM	#2459
ballinnmiami240sx Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: gloucester, VA Age: 42 Posts: 517 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	Not at all. make sure to buy some cutting oil and then go to town. I think I drilled about 50 holes with that harbor freight step drill bit and it still cuts awesome. Im building 3 more cages to compete in USdrift events and hopefully it will hold up. I took it easy on the drill press. Its built really cheap, but it does the job if you take your time. __________________ 1994 FD3S Drift // 945garage // sumospeed.com

11-18-2009, 10:26 PM	#2460
SANdisk Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 25 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Not my work, i just wanted to share this. Ti turbo manifold=badass http://http://s565.photobucket.com/a...rx1/?start=320

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