Tein Hard Tie Rods - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

DoriftoSlut · 04-22-2003, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dousan36
yeah i'll get more inf. when i crawled under there and turned everything i was lke "AH i see how that spacer works!!"
i am horrible at described. i'll try and get some vid/pcitures...

You are also horrible at engrish you FOB! i thought that was my job!

Dousan_PG · 04-22-2003, 10:50 AM

haha..yeah mi english sooks. i nede to go dun get edduducat'd.

*sykikchimp* · 04-22-2003, 11:00 AM

ROFL.. anyways.. so is the threaded part of the inner tie rod long? I guess the spacer goes into the rack while turning? Seems if the spacer stopped the inner tierod from going in as far then it would reduce the angle of the wheels..

So is the inner rod longer, and the outer rod shorter??

I'm so confused.. I guess I'm just going to have to buy a set to see for myself.. hehe

Dousan_PG · 04-22-2003, 11:10 AM

wait im typing as i think so its going to be goofy and confusing

right side

steering rack (rods move in and out left and right)
-----------
................[tie rod inner here...threads...endlink here
-----------

[tie rod inner
---- is steering rack
on this pic is the far right, the part just left of the threads. this hits the steering rack to stop it from turning.

now with spacer
-----------
................SPACER[tie rod inner here...threads...endlink here
-----------

so now the spacer goes in (past) the steering rack, and then the tie rod inner hits it. so you get another 1/4 inch or so more turning

now with the spacer you cant thread it in as much so youll have toe out, but you fix that (w/ endlinks)

you wont be back at 0 because the inner rods can turn into the rack deeper then before, so that makes the steering longer (more turning/counter/wider..whatever)

does that make sense????????

DoriftoSlut · 04-22-2003, 11:32 AM

Umm.. Aaron's response does not make sense... Hahaha!

OK, the spacer does go into the rack. therefore, the rack moves MORE until the tie rod joint (stopper) hits the rack. to compensate for the added length, you back off the endlinks an appropriate amount of threads. There is plenty of fore-aft movement so that you do not decreas the steering angle or its capabilities, and there may even be more than stock (we need to get aaron to check this out).

Does this clarify anything? I know exactly what i am trying to say, so if you don't get it, i will try and explain it differently...

Dousan_PG · 04-22-2003, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dorifto180sx
OK, the spacer does go into the rack. therefore, the rack moves MORE until the tie rod joint (stopper) hits the rack.

u summed up what i tried to explain up there in a few paragraphs!!!

DAMN YOU!!!

yeah spacer goes in so turns more...damn..i'll let doritos explain

(yes i spelled it doritos on purpose)

240Dori · 04-22-2003, 11:42 AM

Congrats to all....now only if there were more informative threads like this than all of the garbage that has to be sifted through...not only is a step by step install with pics included but an informative discussion about the improvements it makes over stock..

[email protected] · 04-22-2003, 11:42 AM

good job installing it... i almost lost mine to danny last friday. now
aaron, all u need to do is go top 3rd with high angle so u can use that extra 20% steering on full counter lock.

my friends in japan thinks that the TEIN hard tie rod/end are OEM replacement from another nissan car. thicker than stock S13 but
not as thick as the drift spec spl ones.

Dousan_PG · 04-22-2003, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by driftheaven
aaron, all u need to do is go top 3rd with high angle so u can use that extra 20% steering on full counter lock.

my friends in japan thinks that the TEIN hard tie rod/end are OEM replacement from another nissan car. thicker than stock S13 but
not as thick as the drift spec spl ones.

3rd gear? I get an alignment tomorrow 9 am. i'll be doing more 3rd gear now that i get rid of that NASTY toe in

boo hoo. i hate you bad alignment (changed suspension stuff w/ no time for alignment)

yeah i just read that by VRT. drift spec ones like JIC and another brand that got forwarded to me. check your email.

[email protected] · 04-22-2003, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dousan36

yeah i just read that by VRT. drift spec ones like JIC and another brand that got forwarded to me. check your email.

where is it? i wanna see...

*sykikchimp* · 04-22-2003, 04:30 PM

yes.. I understand now.. VRT's diagram confused me b/c it didn't really look like the spacer was going into the rack..

Thanks Dousan!

Dousan_PG · 04-22-2003, 04:35 PM

cool

i got alignment appointment 9 am sharp tomorrow morning. i'll get some vid/whatever this weekend.
replacing water pump and rad hoses and thermostat so busy weekend

er...more like

still poor

Steeles · 04-25-2003, 07:45 AM

so wheres the update? hows the alignment?

Dousan_PG · 04-25-2003, 08:43 AM

oh i forgot haha
well, went well
except my rear toe arm is bent..still got WAY TOO MUCH toe in on the left. so im getting Battle Version adjustable rear arm i think. gotta call alex
anyways.

got it all fixedup
the turning radius. WOW. with the spacer its so much tighther
i was at Jspec and when we left, i parked along the sidewalk. everytime i have to make it a 3 pt turn on the street. not anymore! I cleared the curb w/ LOTS of room!

the spacer is a definate plus and im excited to see how it feels at the track drifting

car's got too many problem:
rear toe
waterpump leaks (replacing this weekend)
hairline crack on the z32tt rotor (grr)
rear coilover adjustment.

cars suck.

Steeles · 04-25-2003, 09:41 AM

awsome... *adds tein tie rods to list of suspension stuff to get* I see now Im just gonna wait and get all my suspension stuff and wait to install it all at once.. lol heck with the main seals leaking I may just wait till I can put her down for like a week and do a complete overhaul towards the end of may. now I need money...

**mrmephistopheles** · 04-25-2003, 10:12 AM

Are we ready to send this to the archive?

Dousan_PG · 04-25-2003, 10:14 AM

yeah i think im done
i hope to get some video or something next time on the next car and we'll add it here. some of my friends might buy it as well

Foxcolt · 04-25-2003, 10:16 AM

Can some one post the differences between the tiens and the JIC's/ other drift spec. Or two pictures side by side

Thanks!

Dousan_PG · 04-25-2003, 10:23 AM

JIC/'drift spec' are FAT and SUPER BEEFY

tein is thicker and stronger then OEM but not close to JIC/'drift spec' type

'drift spec' can take some serious abuse and offtracking im sure hehe...its scary to drop a wheel off the track when you clip an apex, i've done it! sounds...very very scary!

i'll go 'drift spec' later this year im sure (as will a few friends who track alot like me). maybe Uras. hmmm

pics? I have none. check JICs site in Japan and US. maybe search tie rod or hard tie rod on yahoo japan search engine?

Foxcolt · 04-25-2003, 10:42 AM

Here's a pic of the Jic's.

These are designed to be used with stock of aftermarket tie rod ends i.e. Kazama, correct?

Dousan_PG · 04-25-2003, 10:46 AM

depends on the type of endlink it uses..m14 (s14, tien hard rods r32, etc)

i think s13 is m12 size. so if JIC s13 uses m12 then kazama s13 will work

if JIC uses m14 on both s14 and s13 rods the you need kazama s14 size

we tested the kazama s13 endlink on the tein s13 hard rod and didnt fit!

oh btw, people i saw (and examined closely) the KAZAMA endlinks last night WOW i was so lovin' it!!! very very very very nice!! i love the pillowball joint, perfect for lowered cars and response. ill be getting a set myself later!

Steeles · 04-25-2003, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dousan36

oh btw, people i saw (and examined closely) the KAZAMA endlinks last night WOW i was so lovin' it!!! very very very very nice!! i love the pillowball joint, perfect for lowered cars and response. ill be getting a set myself later!

bish you were supposed to be in on the group buy!

got me all excited about them then backed out...

lol. all good I need more people in on the rear arms sets get that price down some. mmm more stuff to buy.

Dousan_PG · 04-25-2003, 11:17 AM

i would still get them if i ahd the money. my car is going to hell w/ stuff and tire fund is seriously hurting.

i'll get them eventually. after seeing them last night i was very impressed.

got some other suspension goodies going on this weekend and more in 2 weeks

and more stuff in a month hehehe...

track fees are hurting a lot. already spent 500 on track fees this year (5 events)

Steeles · 04-25-2003, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dousan36
i would still get them if i ahd the money. my car is going to hell w/ stuff and tire fund is seriously hurting.

i'll get them eventually. after seeing them last night i was very impressed.

got some other suspension goodies going on this weekend and more in 2 weeks and more stuff in a month hehehe...

track fees are hurting a lot. already spent 500 on track fees this year (5 events)

hahaha man I wish I had a track I could hit up every weekend! I really would be broke! Think I'll quit going to strip clubs or somethin.. save for a massive overhaul of the car.

Halz · 04-25-2003, 07:12 PM

What similarities in wheel/tire size, alignment, and other suspension 'stuffs' are there between these cars that have been known to break tie rods?

Dousan_PG · 04-25-2003, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Halz
What similarities in wheel/tire size, alignment, and other suspension 'stuffs' are there between these cars that have been known to break tie rods?

they push the car to the limit
drifting or grip

Halz · 04-25-2003, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dousan36
they push the car to the limit
drifting or grip

I don't doubt that.. but I am pretty sure a car with a stock suspension wont be breaking tie rods when fit with grippy tires, and put on the limit

adey · 04-25-2003, 11:38 PM

Halz - I think it's pretty obvious then -- you allude to it in your last post, almost.

Since coilover springs and valving are stiffer, more stress is placed on other elements of suspension and indeed the whole car, such as tie rods and tension rods.

With soft/stock suspension, it's soft and bouncy, and the shocks absorbs the force... turning it into heat.
You know, it's that equasion that includes Force, Time and Power or something like that. Same amount of power over longer time = less force or some crap.

I never was a physicist.

driftingpanda · 04-30-2003, 04:07 PM

good stuff aaron! them shiny sticks sure look beefy. i am waiting for my spaghetti in the microwave, so i guess i'll share my humble (and quite possibly very, very wrong) opinions...

first, i seriously doubt the claim for partial elimination of bump steer. bump steer is caused by suspension geometry, and since a strait bar is being replaced by a strait bar, the geometry stays the same and therefore bump steer probability stays the same. i think they may have been refering to the decrease in toe change due to flex in the end link (and/or knuckle joint), rather than the decrease in toe change due to bump steer.

as for the reasons for tie rod failure, i agree that the main causes would include harsh driving stress and also added strain due to the lack of suspension movement caused by other aftermarket suspension pieces, however, since steel has a rather high stress endurance limit, i would also venture to guess that failure could be caused by material damage due to impact loading (i.e. letting the natural countersteer "slam" while attempting drifts, or a muscular leprechaun tangentially kicking a fully steered steering wheel repeatedly). all this, of course, does not include obvious reasons such as damage from rocks/curbs/etc.

to Dousan and Adey: by the way, i think i may have figured out the mysterious proper drift toe set up, it goes against a lot of conventional theories, and it is highly relative to the other setup specs of the car... i'll email you guys about it i guess.

oops. the spaghetti is ready. or should i say... speghetto... no meat.

danny

Halz · 04-30-2003, 06:09 PM

I was thinking of tie rod failure more along the lines of 1) the car being 'too low', placing the arms at a stupid angle when they're operating 2) spacers on the front wheels increasing the car's track, leveraging heavier loads on the bearing and therefore steering system 3) camber, caster, SAI being too far out of wack could also further increase loads on the system

04-22-2003, 10:50 AM	#32
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	haha..yeah mi english sooks. i nede to go dun get edduducat'd. __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

04-22-2003, 11:00 AM	#33
sykikchimp WOW addicted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the moon Age: 40 Posts: 6,518 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	ROFL.. anyways.. so is the threaded part of the inner tie rod long? I guess the spacer goes into the rack while turning? Seems if the spacer stopped the inner tierod from going in as far then it would reduce the angle of the wheels.. So is the inner rod longer, and the outer rod shorter?? I'm so confused.. I guess I'm just going to have to buy a set to see for myself.. hehe __________________

04-22-2003, 11:10 AM	#34
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	wait im typing as i think so its going to be goofy and confusing right side steering rack (rods move in and out left and right) ----------- ................[tie rod inner here...threads...endlink here ----------- [tie rod inner ---- is steering rack on this pic is the far right, the part just left of the threads. this hits the steering rack to stop it from turning. now with spacer ----------- ................SPACER[tie rod inner here...threads...endlink here ----------- so now the spacer goes in (past) the steering rack, and then the tie rod inner hits it. so you get another 1/4 inch or so more turning now with the spacer you cant thread it in as much so youll have toe out, but you fix that (w/ endlinks) you wont be back at 0 because the inner rods can turn into the rack deeper then before, so that makes the steering longer (more turning/counter/wider..whatever) does that make sense???????? __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

04-22-2003, 11:32 AM	#35
DoriftoSlut Nissanaholic! Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SoCal and Hawaii Age: 37 Posts: 1,986 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Umm.. Aaron's response does not make sense... Hahaha! OK, the spacer does go into the rack. therefore, the rack moves MORE until the tie rod joint (stopper) hits the rack. to compensate for the added length, you back off the endlinks an appropriate amount of threads. There is plenty of fore-aft movement so that you do not decreas the steering angle or its capabilities, and there may even be more than stock (we need to get aaron to check this out). Does this clarify anything? I know exactly what i am trying to say, so if you don't get it, i will try and explain it differently... __________________ Death Before Dishonor. www.pinkgodzira.com www.driftalliance.com

04-22-2003, 04:30 PM	#41
sykikchimp WOW addicted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the moon Age: 40 Posts: 6,518 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yes.. I understand now.. VRT's diagram confused me b/c it didn't really look like the spacer was going into the rack.. Thanks Dousan! __________________

04-22-2003, 11:42 AM	#37
240Dori Zilvia Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: MI Age: 37 Posts: 162 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Congrats to all....now only if there were more informative threads like this than all of the garbage that has to be sifted through...not only is a step by step install with pics included but an informative discussion about the improvements it makes over stock..

04-22-2003, 11:42 AM	#38
[email protected] Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Porter Ranch Posts: 1,326 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	good job installing it... i almost lost mine to danny last friday. now aaron, all u need to do is go top 3rd with high angle so u can use that extra 20% steering on full counter lock. my friends in japan thinks that the TEIN hard tie rod/end are OEM replacement from another nissan car. thicker than stock S13 but not as thick as the drift spec spl ones.

04-22-2003, 04:35 PM	#42
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	cool i got alignment appointment 9 am sharp tomorrow morning. i'll get some vid/whatever this weekend. replacing water pump and rad hoses and thermostat so busy weekend er...more like still poor __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

04-25-2003, 07:45 AM	#43
Steeles Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: 7th layer of hell, special pit of anger Age: 45 Posts: 3,785 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	so wheres the update? hows the alignment? __________________ Keeping it Godzira bishes. So I murdered another turbo

04-25-2003, 08:43 AM	#44
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	oh i forgot haha well, went well except my rear toe arm is bent..still got WAY TOO MUCH toe in on the left. so im getting Battle Version adjustable rear arm i think. gotta call alex anyways. got it all fixedup the turning radius. WOW. with the spacer its so much tighther i was at Jspec and when we left, i parked along the sidewalk. everytime i have to make it a 3 pt turn on the street. not anymore! I cleared the curb w/ LOTS of room! the spacer is a definate plus and im excited to see how it feels at the track drifting car's got too many problem: rear toe waterpump leaks (replacing this weekend) hairline crack on the z32tt rotor (grr) rear coilover adjustment. cars suck. __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

04-25-2003, 09:41 AM	#45
Steeles Post Whore! Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: 7th layer of hell, special pit of anger Age: 45 Posts: 3,785 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	awsome... adds tein tie rods to list of suspension stuff to get I see now Im just gonna wait and get all my suspension stuff and wait to install it all at once.. lol heck with the main seals leaking I may just wait till I can put her down for like a week and do a complete overhaul towards the end of may. now I need money... __________________ Keeping it Godzira bishes. So I murdered another turbo

04-25-2003, 10:12 AM	#46
mrmephistopheles Inactive Admin Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: BFE Age: 19 Posts: 14,334 Trader Rating: (9) Rides Gallery: mrmephistopheles Feedback Score: 9 reviews	Are we ready to send this to the archive?

04-25-2003, 10:14 AM	#47
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	yeah i think im done i hope to get some video or something next time on the next car and we'll add it here. some of my friends might buy it as well __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

04-25-2003, 10:16 AM	#48
Foxcolt Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Northern VA Posts: 1,264 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Can some one post the differences between the tiens and the JIC's/ other drift spec. Or two pictures side by side Thanks! __________________ Driftec www.midatlantic240sx.com

04-25-2003, 10:23 AM	#49
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	JIC/'drift spec' are FAT and SUPER BEEFY tein is thicker and stronger then OEM but not close to JIC/'drift spec' type 'drift spec' can take some serious abuse and offtracking im sure hehe...its scary to drop a wheel off the track when you clip an apex, i've done it! sounds...very very scary! i'll go 'drift spec' later this year im sure (as will a few friends who track alot like me). maybe Uras. hmmm pics? I have none. check JICs site in Japan and US. maybe search tie rod or hard tie rod on yahoo japan search engine? __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

04-25-2003, 10:42 AM	#50
Foxcolt Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Northern VA Posts: 1,264 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Here's a pic of the Jic's. These are designed to be used with stock of aftermarket tie rod ends i.e. Kazama, correct? __________________ Driftec www.midatlantic240sx.com

04-25-2003, 10:46 AM	#51
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	depends on the type of endlink it uses..m14 (s14, tien hard rods r32, etc) i think s13 is m12 size. so if JIC s13 uses m12 then kazama s13 will work if JIC uses m14 on both s14 and s13 rods the you need kazama s14 size we tested the kazama s13 endlink on the tein s13 hard rod and didnt fit! oh btw, people i saw (and examined closely) the KAZAMA endlinks last night WOW i was so lovin' it!!! very very very very nice!! i love the pillowball joint, perfect for lowered cars and response. ill be getting a set myself later! __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

04-25-2003, 11:17 AM	#53
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	i would still get them if i ahd the money. my car is going to hell w/ stuff and tire fund is seriously hurting. i'll get them eventually. after seeing them last night i was very impressed. got some other suspension goodies going on this weekend and more in 2 weeks and more stuff in a month hehehe... track fees are hurting a lot. already spent 500 on track fees this year (5 events) __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

04-25-2003, 07:12 PM	#55
Halz BANNED Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: bay area Age: 38 Posts: 214 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	What similarities in wheel/tire size, alignment, and other suspension 'stuffs' are there between these cars that have been known to break tie rods?

04-25-2003, 11:38 PM	#58
adey Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 3,061 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Halz - I think it's pretty obvious then -- you allude to it in your last post, almost. Since coilover springs and valving are stiffer, more stress is placed on other elements of suspension and indeed the whole car, such as tie rods and tension rods. With soft/stock suspension, it's soft and bouncy, and the shocks absorbs the force... turning it into heat. You know, it's that equasion that includes Force, Time and Power or something like that. Same amount of power over longer time = less force or some crap. I never was a physicist.

04-30-2003, 04:07 PM	#59
driftingpanda Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: so cal Posts: 593 Trader Rating: (24) Feedback Score: 24 reviews	good stuff aaron! them shiny sticks sure look beefy. i am waiting for my spaghetti in the microwave, so i guess i'll share my humble (and quite possibly very, very wrong) opinions... first, i seriously doubt the claim for partial elimination of bump steer. bump steer is caused by suspension geometry, and since a strait bar is being replaced by a strait bar, the geometry stays the same and therefore bump steer probability stays the same. i think they may have been refering to the decrease in toe change due to flex in the end link (and/or knuckle joint), rather than the decrease in toe change due to bump steer. as for the reasons for tie rod failure, i agree that the main causes would include harsh driving stress and also added strain due to the lack of suspension movement caused by other aftermarket suspension pieces, however, since steel has a rather high stress endurance limit, i would also venture to guess that failure could be caused by material damage due to impact loading (i.e. letting the natural countersteer "slam" while attempting drifts, or a muscular leprechaun tangentially kicking a fully steered steering wheel repeatedly). all this, of course, does not include obvious reasons such as damage from rocks/curbs/etc. to Dousan and Adey: by the way, i think i may have figured out the mysterious proper drift toe set up, it goes against a lot of conventional theories, and it is highly relative to the other setup specs of the car... i'll email you guys about it i guess. oops. the spaghetti is ready. or should i say... speghetto... no meat. danny __________________ PM me about limited edition Pink GodziRa Sticker packages!

04-30-2003, 06:09 PM	#60
Halz BANNED Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: bay area Age: 38 Posts: 214 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I was thinking of tie rod failure more along the lines of 1) the car being 'too low', placing the arms at a stupid angle when they're operating 2) spacers on the front wheels increasing the car's track, leveraging heavier loads on the bearing and therefore steering system 3) camber, caster, SAI being too far out of wack could also further increase loads on the system

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