1st gear is grinding - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

mixxamike · 08-06-2003, 11:30 PM

I just bought my '96 240sx 4 days ago. I drove it home to Illinois from Las Vegas (freaking 2000 mile trip!!

) The car ran great the entire time.

Tonight, I was cruising around town, then all of a sudden a problem arose. As I am downshifting through my gears, all shifts are smooth and effortless, until 1st gear. I can easily shift into first gear when I am at an absolute dead stop, however, when I am comming to a stop, have my clutch fully depressed, and attempt to shift into 1st gear, I hear the most god awful grinding sound. Sometimes I can get into first when I'm decelerating (but I really have to shove the stick hard), and sometimes the gears just grind and bounce off each other not allowing me to get into first at all.

Do I need new first gear synchros? What's wrong????

Oh, and just as I expected, one of the local ricers pulled up and said, "You should get a silvia front. Oh yeah, and get a silvia engine."

I proceeded to tell him I DID have a "silvia" front. (Judging by the look on his face, I think I had him stumped.)

Please, pretty please help me diagnose my car. She's only 4 days old...

Poor baby.

sil80phobia · 08-07-2003, 12:15 AM

have you _ever_ gotten it into 1st smoothly from a roll? Every car I've ever owned did not like going into 1st from a roll - always from a stop - I think to a certain degree it's normal. You can always double clutch if you really need 1st.

S14Speed997 · 08-07-2003, 08:08 AM

It's not a Honda that you can put into 1st at 15mph, like my roommates Civic SI....I never could, and still can't put it into 1st unless I am at a dead stop. This is the experience I have had with a S14, and I have had my car for 3 yrs..I know a some people on this forum with S13's that can put it into 1st at higher mph ( I believe Dousan said 12mph)...And there are probably some S14's that can do it, but I don't recommend it.

- Eric

Dousan_PG · 08-07-2003, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by S14Speed997
It's not a Honda that you can put into 1st at 15mph, like my roommates Civic SI....I never could, and still can't put it into 1st unless I am at a dead stop. This is the experience I have had with a S14, and I have had my car for 3 yrs..I know a some people on this forum with S13's that can put it into 1st at higher mph ( I believe Dousan said 12mph)...And there are probably some S14's that can do it, but I don't recommend it.

- Eric

i can put my car into first at around 15mph (give or take) easily. no grinding no problems. revmatch and a double clutch. need to practice some more bud.

i recall asad(i think it was him) saying it can be done at 20mph w/ double clutch/revmatch

you can do it in S14 too, i did it in my friends car.

S14Speed997 · 08-07-2003, 08:52 AM

Quote:

i can put my car into first at around 15mph (give or take) easily. no grinding no problems. revmatch and a double clutch. need to practice some more bud.

Lick my balls.....

Dousan_PG · 08-07-2003, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by S14Speed997
Lick my balls.....

nah, i just had some breakfast. thanks though.

S14Speed997 · 08-07-2003, 08:56 AM

hahahaha....

I've had a couple people try putting it into first in my car..no luck....I feel like going out and dogging the sh*t outta my car today, so I'm gonna go for the new record...slam it into 1st at 25 mph!! woohoo...

Dousan_PG · 08-07-2003, 09:01 AM

double clutch and revmatch..but gotta get the revs WAY up
i do it at the track regularly and it slides in like buttah
no problems
could be the tranny going and all that....
who knows...

orion::S14 · 08-07-2003, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mixxamike
Do I need new first gear synchros?

No synchros in 1st or Reverse...so as it has been pointed out, you need to rev match properly.

Later - Brian

mixxamike · 08-07-2003, 09:36 AM

I don't think you guys are fully understanding me. I am not letting out the clutch after I try and or sometimes succeed in getting into 1st gear. As I am comming to a stop and preparing to stop, I downshift from second to first at about 5 of 10 mph but keep the clutch pedal FULLY depressed. This is when the grinding takes place. I'm not engaging the clutch at all until I beging to start again from a dead stop (like a stop sign or light).

Thanks for the replies though. I'm going to do some driving today and try and figure out if double clutching will solve the problem. Hopefully that is all it is.

But you know what...shouldn't you be able, even at like 70 mph, to shift through all the gears with the clutch pedal depressed. I've never tried this, but when you depress the clutch pedal, the engine isn't attatched to the transmission. Or, am I just an idiot and am not taking into consideration that when I am in 5th at 70mph, my first gear is spinning like a bat out of hell at a million-trillion rpms.

Thanks for your help. Sorry for my newbieness.

-Mike

*AceInHole* · 08-07-2003, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mixxamike
But you know what...shouldn't you be able, even at like 70 mph, to shift through all the gears with the clutch pedal depressed. I've never tried this, but when you depress the clutch pedal, the engine isn't attatched to the transmission. Or, am I just an idiot and am not taking into consideration that when I am in 5th at 70mph, my first gear is spinning like a bat out of hell at a million-trillion rpms.

At 70mph the synchros will prevent you from getting into certain gears.
Your first gear might not be spinning that fast, but remember at 70mph your output shaft on the tranny is spinning at the equivolent RPM for 70mph. So, even with the clutch pedal depressed, the "later" half of the tranny is still spinning.

mbmbmb23 · 08-07-2003, 10:31 AM

You're never gonna be able to shift thru all the gears with the clutch depressed...going 70mph.....because if you were rolling at 70mph...with the clutch depressed and in first gear position........and you let off the clutch....your tranny would be focked...and so would everyone behind you on the highway as your tires would lock up. If I were you I'd check the fluid level in your hydraulic clutch lines. If I remember correctly, certain gears are harder to get into when your fluid level gets pretty low (happend to me with 1st and reverse when my clutch MC went bad and was leaking). My advice, dont use 1st gear right now.......downshift to 2nd..and if you have to stop the car...go from 2nd to neutral and use the brakes...then start off in 2nd by revving way up to get going. If you clutch MC is going to leak, it'll be leaking inside your car behind the clutch pedal. If the lines leak, they'll probably be leaking from the rubber lines under the car that go from the bleeder box to the clutch slave cylinder. Or..it could be the slave cylinder leaking. You'll need to jack the car up to check these lines...the slave cylinder is bolted to the passenger side of your tranny bell housing.

-m

mixxamike · 08-07-2003, 11:06 AM

Dousan36, I can get into 1st gear easily double clutching and rev-matching. I just assumed that wouldn't be necessary. I guess I was wrong.

Oh yeah, I had a 60k mile tune up that cost me $700 before I left Las Vegas, so I think all my fluids should be just fine. But thanks for the suggestions. I was just out and about up town in my car...just as some of you have said, getting into first at a dead stop is smooth as butter, it's just rolling at 5-15mph that gives me troubles.

I learned how to drive stick on a jeep and this was never a problem...i guess the trannys really aren't too much alike, even though they are both manual. Now it's just time to get used to my 240's tranny.

Thanks for all your help guys

-Mike

*sykikchimp* · 08-07-2003, 11:17 AM

It appears you have figured it out by now, but just to reiterate.

your car is fine. It's a Feature not a Bug.

kalieaire · 08-07-2003, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by orion::S14
No synchros in 1st or Reverse...so as it has been pointed out, you need to rev match properly.

Later - Brian

comeon b, haven't you read asad's post about how 1st gear has a synchro that just really really sucks?

and only reverse has no synchros??

:P

kalieaire · 08-07-2003, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mixxamike
I don't think you guys are fully understanding me.

we do, you just don't understand us. for more help in figuring out how a tranny really works.

check http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=67479155.

be sure to read it all and skip nothing. and i mean NOTHING.

kalieaire · 08-07-2003, 02:44 PM

oh yea, if you need visuals. go here.

08-06-2003, 11:30 PM	#1
mixxamike Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Litchfield, IL Posts: 440 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	1st gear is grinding I just bought my '96 240sx 4 days ago. I drove it home to Illinois from Las Vegas (freaking 2000 mile trip!! ) The car ran great the entire time. Tonight, I was cruising around town, then all of a sudden a problem arose. As I am downshifting through my gears, all shifts are smooth and effortless, until 1st gear. I can easily shift into first gear when I am at an absolute dead stop, however, when I am comming to a stop, have my clutch fully depressed, and attempt to shift into 1st gear, I hear the most god awful grinding sound. Sometimes I can get into first when I'm decelerating (but I really have to shove the stick hard), and sometimes the gears just grind and bounce off each other not allowing me to get into first at all. Do I need new first gear synchros? What's wrong???? Oh, and just as I expected, one of the local ricers pulled up and said, "You should get a silvia front. Oh yeah, and get a silvia engine." I proceeded to tell him I DID have a "silvia" front. (Judging by the look on his face, I think I had him stumped.) Please, pretty please help me diagnose my car. She's only 4 days old... Poor baby.

08-07-2003, 12:15 AM	#2
sil80phobia Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 31 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	have you _ever_ gotten it into 1st smoothly from a roll? Every car I've ever owned did not like going into 1st from a roll - always from a stop - I think to a certain degree it's normal. You can always double clutch if you really need 1st. __________________ ======== Dave

08-07-2003, 08:08 AM	#3
S14Speed997 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Age: 41 Posts: 527 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	It's not a Honda that you can put into 1st at 15mph, like my roommates Civic SI....I never could, and still can't put it into 1st unless I am at a dead stop. This is the experience I have had with a S14, and I have had my car for 3 yrs..I know a some people on this forum with S13's that can put it into 1st at higher mph ( I believe Dousan said 12mph)...And there are probably some S14's that can do it, but I don't recommend it. - Eric __________________ I love signatures that aren't over 400x200!

08-07-2003, 08:56 AM	#7
S14Speed997 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Age: 41 Posts: 527 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	hahahaha.... I've had a couple people try putting it into first in my car..no luck....I feel like going out and dogging the sh*t outta my car today, so I'm gonna go for the new record...slam it into 1st at 25 mph!! woohoo... __________________ I love signatures that aren't over 400x200!

08-07-2003, 09:01 AM	#8
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 42 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	double clutch and revmatch..but gotta get the revs WAY up i do it at the track regularly and it slides in like buttah no problems could be the tranny going and all that.... who knows... __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

08-07-2003, 09:36 AM	#10
mixxamike Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Litchfield, IL Posts: 440 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I don't think you guys are fully understanding me. I am not letting out the clutch after I try and or sometimes succeed in getting into 1st gear. As I am comming to a stop and preparing to stop, I downshift from second to first at about 5 of 10 mph but keep the clutch pedal FULLY depressed. This is when the grinding takes place. I'm not engaging the clutch at all until I beging to start again from a dead stop (like a stop sign or light). Thanks for the replies though. I'm going to do some driving today and try and figure out if double clutching will solve the problem. Hopefully that is all it is. But you know what...shouldn't you be able, even at like 70 mph, to shift through all the gears with the clutch pedal depressed. I've never tried this, but when you depress the clutch pedal, the engine isn't attatched to the transmission. Or, am I just an idiot and am not taking into consideration that when I am in 5th at 70mph, my first gear is spinning like a bat out of hell at a million-trillion rpms. Thanks for your help. Sorry for my newbieness. -Mike

08-07-2003, 10:31 AM	#12
mbmbmb23 Zilvia Contributor Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charlotte, NC. Posts: 1,776 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: mbmbmb23 Feedback Score: 1 reviews	You're never gonna be able to shift thru all the gears with the clutch depressed...going 70mph.....because if you were rolling at 70mph...with the clutch depressed and in first gear position........and you let off the clutch....your tranny would be focked...and so would everyone behind you on the highway as your tires would lock up. If I were you I'd check the fluid level in your hydraulic clutch lines. If I remember correctly, certain gears are harder to get into when your fluid level gets pretty low (happend to me with 1st and reverse when my clutch MC went bad and was leaking). My advice, dont use 1st gear right now.......downshift to 2nd..and if you have to stop the car...go from 2nd to neutral and use the brakes...then start off in 2nd by revving way up to get going. If you clutch MC is going to leak, it'll be leaking inside your car behind the clutch pedal. If the lines leak, they'll probably be leaking from the rubber lines under the car that go from the bleeder box to the clutch slave cylinder. Or..it could be the slave cylinder leaking. You'll need to jack the car up to check these lines...the slave cylinder is bolted to the passenger side of your tranny bell housing. -m

08-07-2003, 11:06 AM	#13
mixxamike Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Litchfield, IL Posts: 440 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Dousan36, I can get into 1st gear easily double clutching and rev-matching. I just assumed that wouldn't be necessary. I guess I was wrong. Oh yeah, I had a 60k mile tune up that cost me $700 before I left Las Vegas, so I think all my fluids should be just fine. But thanks for the suggestions. I was just out and about up town in my car...just as some of you have said, getting into first at a dead stop is smooth as butter, it's just rolling at 5-15mph that gives me troubles. I learned how to drive stick on a jeep and this was never a problem...i guess the trannys really aren't too much alike, even though they are both manual. Now it's just time to get used to my 240's tranny. Thanks for all your help guys -Mike

08-07-2003, 11:17 AM	#14
sykikchimp WOW addicted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the moon Age: 40 Posts: 6,518 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	It appears you have figured it out by now, but just to reiterate. your car is fine. It's a Feature not a Bug. __________________

08-07-2003, 02:44 PM	#17
kalieaire Zilvia Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Milpitas, CA - SFBA Posts: 222 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	oh yea, if you need visuals. go here. __________________ - -- - '93 240sx coupe '93 taurus wagon -kalieaire (maybe grinder too on special occasions)

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