EchoOfSilence

'voting' (or lack thereof) is what got him into office in the first place.

Anyway, it's not like voting in presidential elections directly places people in office. Electoral college does what we thought we were doing. nice facad.


Optionzero... if some immigrants were given some of the rights they ask for, i'm sure they'd be more than glad to service the country (taxes, jury duty, etc.) I know my family is.

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SimpleSexy180

used the germans like slaves, and wanted to create his perfect world.

jdm_s14_zenki

We vote for the representatives that have electoral votes, they in turn use the electoral votes to vote for the president. in the end, the people vote but indirectly.

EchoOfSilence

the state legislature appoints them, and then after the election the states go into 'winner-take-all' mode. bs.

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drift freaq

ok guys we all seem to be missing a bigger part of the immigration picture. Mexico is fucked up. The Mexican goverment is corrupt, they rip off there own people big time. Vincente Fox encourages illegal immigration, so that the illegals will send money back to Mexico in the form American dollars. A big part of the problem is Mexico is not willing to reform. Its not willing to pay wage earners what they deserve and in turn that forces them to look and travel north to the U.S., to get paid more than they would ear in Mexico, even at the substandard wages illegals work for here. Fix the problem in Mexico and you solve a major portion of the problem. If people want to immigrate here become legal, learn our language and work to forward our economy. I am all for it. This is a country of Immigrants! Legal Immigrants! Who came through Ellis Island like my grandparents. We do have a problem with people coming here illegally and then demanding citizenship. You come here legally we give you citizenship. You want to work here we will consider giving you citizenship but don't come here illegally and then demand citizenship. Do it through proper channels the right way. If we need you then maybe we should consider amnesty but don't ask us to learn your language learn English just like my parents had to do just like my Grandparents had to do. There it is folks all in a nutshell.

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^
That man speaks truth.

SiI40sx

im all for that, I wasnt born in the states, came here legally and legally became an American Citizen, I dont support illegals. Fix mexico fix a big part of the problem is true

kognition

I am very strong against illegal immigration. There is no need for further "nation building" in this country. Our President isn't even a retard, he is just a "tard".
I think i'm gonna vote for the independant party this time around. I am so sick of
both mainstream parties at this point.
I really think the "Minute Men" and their cross country tour are spreading fear in Washington of a severe
revolt by the people that do not want to give citizenship to illegal aliens. I think this is forcing Bush to do these speeches because he knows what is about to happen. Total revolt.
The USA is more of a racial melting pot than any country on the planet, which squashes the theory that it is a racial issue.

TheSquidd

Best part is, Mexico wants to sue us for making it harder for illegals to cross the border.

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jdm_s14_zenki

amen!

---------

Well then we should blow Mexico up to stop them from smuggling drugs across the border. Theyre even trying to legalize drugs in small quantities...lol

Not that i hate mexicans cus i dont, i have many mexican friends. But Mexico is an unethical shithole of a government. Corrupt, evil.

SiI40sx

the government shouldve invaded Mexico instead of Iraq

kognition

Vicente Fox is coming to So Cal next week. It's getting interesting by the day now.

L1ama

Whats the point... Are there even any Mexicans left in Mexico?

OptionZero

nbridley hit on an important piont:

you can't control the border with ANY amount of national guard, people will ALWAYS try to get in here as long as the situation remains as it is (democracy and jobs)

to stop illegal immigration you must control the supply of jobs. Make it expensive to hire illegal immigration and companies will stop doing it.

Proposal:
If you want to work here, you need to be documented extensively. You keep your job, you get some modicum of government recognition, and you can stay as long as you have a visa (presumably with some sort of fee).

Any employer caught hiring undocumented alien is fined, AND the person is deported. You have to demonstrate a willingness to deport otherwise any sanctions are pointless and hollow.

In combination with this, you also do need some force on the border, as well as some non-corrupt way of identifying whos legal and who's not.

Workers that stay X amount of time (7 years?) get a chance at citizenship (not guaranteed), and DO need to show some commitment to being somewhat american (minimal english, basic knowledge of american system). If you are in the army, that time is shorter (3.5 years?), with even more bonuses for time served in the armed forces if there's a war (gee...iraq? korea? iran?)

But enough with the giving them free shit stuff plz

OptionZero

echo: if you're willing to do all that stuff, more power to you. I appluad you for showing more enthusiasm than many americans do for their OWN country. Now go apply legally for citizenship.


FOx encouraging illegal immigration? Where's a CIA hit squad when you need one?

The mexicans should overturn their own government and install someone halfway brighter. I'm sure we have plenty of skill formeting rebellion in governments we don't like (middle east?), why not do it to mexico?

Jonnie Fraz

Lots of good points on the immigration issues. My boss immagrated here in the 70's from Germany, he could not speek a word of English. He got a job doing what others were not willing to do. Learned English, got his citizenship, and now one of the owners of the company I work for.
I agree that we need to enforce the laws that are in place for the employers, making it tougher to get jobs. If there is no money or no jobs then there is no reason to immigrate illegaly. In doing this we must be prepared for the reprocussions, in that alot of immigrants are willing to do any job to make money, where allot of Americans feel that they are above certain jobs, or can make more on welfare/disability.
I also agree we as a whole need to vote in order to be allowed to complain.
Lots of good food for thought.

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axiomatik

For everyone who says they should just immigrate legally, let me give you an idea of how long that would take. There are currently an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants in the US. Lets say 6 million are from Mexico. Each year, no more than 7% of all immigrants can come from one country. I looked up the quota, that translates to 25,620 immigrants from ONE country per year. So only 25,620 Mexicans can legally come to this country each year. For the 6 million illegal immigrants to have all come here legally, it would have taken 234 years. See, it's easy to immigrate here legally!

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OptionZero

thats right, the situation IS like that

but that does not excuse illegal immigration, not does that mean these people deserve to be given citizenship and life here on a silver platter (metaphorically speaking)

All of what you said simply means we should reform that immigration system and root out corruption AND/OR fix the Mexican state

Again: a flawed immigration system does not excuse illegal immigration

No one obligated a spot in America.

SiI40sx

Unfortunately its not just the job hunters that are immigrating, its also the drug dealers, prostitution, etc. What needs to happen is the southern country does need to be fixed because we dont want this country becoming a 90% spanish speaking do we? This country has been a melting pot all the way to its roots.

Phlip

When I read this thread and saw "Presidential Address", I immediately thought of:
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW in Washington, D.C.

... you know, where the president lives for us to overpay him to underwork for a few years of their lives?

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SiI40sx

hahaha your an idiot, that was pretty funny though

On another note, doesnt the president NOT make a lot a year? only like 60k I believe? I heard this from an unknown source (becuz I dont remember who I heard it from) something like, its not the income that the president makes but all the perks and lobbyist offers they recieve that makes them look rich??

ALTRNTV

Not a good thing to say to a moderator.

SiI40sx

dont be such a kiss ass, I wasnt insulting him. I was complimenting on what he said, I found it humorous.

No hard feelings right philip??

Phlip

No, I would have pinked you without hesitation if I had taken it the wrong way

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EchoOfSilence

woah there, I was born here, lol.

Anyway, Mexico has been in rebellion for DECADES. They've stormed the federal office a bunch of times, there are guerillas fighting for what they thing is just in Chiapas, as other things are happening. Don't think the majority in Mexico don't want change. I have friends of the family that live in Mexico that need to MOVE across the country just to find a menial job. Mind you, these are college educated people. Jobs are scarce because those that hold office do not want to reform... because of their greed. The rich-poor dichotomy there is 3X what it is here. Some store owners don't hire you if you're not a sub-25 looking girl.

Things are ridiculous over there. They're actually investigating the oil companies that Vicente Fox owns (ironic, eh?) for embezzlement. If the US were to take them down and establish another one of its puppet gov'ts there, it would probably be around the same, however.

Anyway, I totally agree with Dave (driftfreaq) if you haven't noticed by now.

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jdm_s14_zenki

And thats why the USA is the best country in the HISTORY of mankind. And we aim to keep it that way.
-IMO

EchoOfSilence

Shit is currupt here too, don't get it twisted.

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jdm_s14_zenki

i dont got it "twisted"
live in another country...im confident that you'll come crawling back to the USA

Every government has corruption. Human nature.

ALTRNTV

I agree. There's not one country I would rather live in, than the US.

Phlip

You know what?
I could wake up every morning and complain about 20-50 things about this country that bug me endlessly, but I STILL agree with you. I can't name anywhere else I would rather live in that same burst of thought, no shit.

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