Jeff240sx

Same as the SR sticky. Post up stuff here.
When I get back from class I'll add my information here. For now, all you people with FMU and otherwise stock fuel setup, go boost. I don't want you to disgrace or defame the KA anymore than it has been.
-Jeff

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RBS14

Thank You Jeff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Sil#2

1997 Stock internals.
10psi.
JGS kit - AGP/Turbonetics .50 trim T3/T04E
Log manifold
JGS400 Wastegate
KA24(D)E downpipe and wg pipe set
550cc injectors
Z32 MAF
Enthalpy Tune - 93 octane
3" fmic
3" exhaust.

218 hp - Does that sound right? They said this Australian Dyno is similar to a Mustang Dyno.

unclewolf82

im building a 93 ka24de from the bottom up. i'm shooting for an hp range of 350 - 400. i've got eagle rods, wilco pistons with a .20 over bore, bc stage 2 cams, bc valves, bc valve springs & retainers, excessice fuel rail, excessive cast intake, excessive SR oil pan. what size turbo should i be looking for along with injectors and fuel pump?

josh_schul

You sound like you have spent a good bit of money on the parts you already have... so if you are going to continue the trend. I think a perfect setup would be a Dual BB Precision 5858 turbo(id run Vband if you can too since you didnt mention your turbo manifold), Precision 880cc or larger injectors , Aeromotive Stealth Fuel Pump. You have a promising sounding build sir!

And id also like to just like to say you should consider getting rid of the bc cams for kelford stage 3 instead.... you wont be disappointed.

Frank_Jaeger

That seems low to me, even for that boost level on a turbo that size.

SolTNtuz

Still kind of new here hope right thread.
Just finished putting a new KA24DET in a 89 240sx.
I have the boost set at zero and the waste gate open and still the stock injectors ( 600cc are ready when motor is broken in and boost is set and heading to tune shop ). My question... The motor has a very rough idle and when I approach a stop the motor stalls. Less than 1 hr and 15 Km on the motor and not over 3000 rpm yet. Does the ECU need to be set up differently? The timing is set to stock specs and not sure what else to do.
Thanks for any help.

DoriftoSlut

Jeff correct any of this if im terribly wrong because this is off the top of my head.
It's Maeda btw.

Turbo's of choice + Fuel Ideas
300HP+
T04
T3/T04[e]
---
JWT ECU/SAFC2/Emanage/ETC.
Walboro 255
450cc and up
Cobra/Z32 MAF

250-270HP
T3/T04[b/e]
Big T3 (60 trim and up) [standard t3 can do it.]
[t28 - see also, AceinHole]
---
JWT ECU/SAFC2/Emanage/ETC.
Walboro 255
370cc - 450cc
Cobra/Z32 MAF
or
Hacked MAF(?)
[Walbro 255]
370cc - 450cc
or
RRFPR [NOT RECOMMENDED FOR MORE THAN TEMPORARY DRIVING!]
[Walbro 255]
370cc - 450cc

Up to 250HP
Smaller T3
T28
---
JWT ECU/SAFC2/Emanage/ETC.
Walboro 255
370cc and up
or
Hacked MAF(?)
[Walbro 255]
370cc - 450cc
or
RRFPR [Again, not recommended]
[Walbro 255]
370cc - 450cc

Cobra MAF works only with JWT.
Z32 MAF is compatible with most piggybacks.
R32 MAF can also be used and is compatible with most piggybacks.

Cheap Injectors
370cc Injectors come from stock SR20DET's (about 150$ total)
450cc Injectors come from DSM's and require a custom fuel rail (about 200$ total)
480cc Injectors come from S15 SR20DET (about 250$ total)

Cheap Intercoolers
Side-mount SR20DET i/c's will work up to about 200HP
Blue Bird i/c's (slightly bigger) will work up to about 250HP
People have been known to stack sidemount intercoolers to good effect.

It is in my opinion better to shoot for about 250RWHP on the KA and tune for throttle response instead of going for 300+RWHP and having to deal with turbo lag. It's cheaper and more useful if you do anything other then drag racing or racing people on the LA on-ramps.

[I've added stuff in brackets throughout the post, as it was fairly long and I didn't want to quote it. ~Jeff]

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RBS14

Edit: Fuel pumps are a MUST when going KAT. Read Jeff's post below this one for more info.

Hacked MAF is also a good option that requires NO ECU mods or piggyback fuel systems. All you do is stick your maf sensor element in a larger tube (size depending on injector/turbo size). a good size to use with 370's is ~2.6ID tube when running 250rwhp or below. some people have run up to a 3"ID with higher numbers.

Starion Intercoolers are also a good option. relatively efficient and good size. good to 300rwhp from what i've heard.

Z31 turbos are a T3, but difficult to fit due to the turbo elbow. not recommended for top mount manifolds.

oil feed line from the turbo can come from 2 places. a sandwich plate between the block and oil filter or the more common, oil pressure sender location, right below the oil filter. thread pitch is 1/8" BSPT. 1/8" NPT will work but will more often than not strip out the hole. then you are FUXORED! so don't use NPT thread pitch on the block. Only problem with BSPT is finding it stateside. America, being the geniuses we are decided to make up our own thread pitch, and not use the world's standard (BSPT). sound familiar?.... not using metric system maybe? haha anyways. Also be careful with braided stainless oil feed lines, they are the best for the job, but you can put holes in them relatively easy. I routed mine back behind the engine because I thought over the valvecover was ugly. it looked better, but got snagged on something and got a hole in it. luckily I was almost home when it happened, if I had been driving for another 5 mins my engine would have been toast.

One of the biggest bitches of everything I did was welding in the oil drain fitting to my oil pan. well not the welding itself, that was the easiest part. taking off the oil pan and especially putting it back on SUCKS!!!! set aside a full day to do it.

another good thing to do is buy a high flow cat for your kat. it seems to be one of the most overlooked parts of a kat setup. Summit sells a universal DOT approved one for like $53 shipped, very good quality. I've got one and love it.

that's about all of the random shit I can think of right now.

I know I'm prolly not supposed to do this but....... [No. You were right. You're not supposed to do that. ~Jeff]

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Jeff240sx

It's not a misconception. The stock pump has enough fuel to go there, but the lifespan of a pump running full throttle is severely shortened. Then, if you're like me and drive with barely any gas (fuel pump coolant) it's as good as cooked.
Also, using an adjustable or rising rate fuel pressure regulator puts more stress on the pump, and every pump becomes less efficient when pumping more pressure. This cause lead to fuel starvation, and destroying your motor. It's $100, and I'm dead serious, don't fuck around with "skimping" on fuel. Even at 4psi, get a new $100 pump, or it will eventually be a $500 KA.
-Jeff

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kahlistrophic

Ok, just to clear up what your saying on this.......
you say you can run ONLY a hacked MAF and injectors on this power goal, that is without any safc or management. I would imagine the less stress at this point with less power but how is the cycle of the injectors properly controlled?

Also, the very mild power adder from the ka-t.org suggestions do not run any ic's, any thoughts on this?

Forgive me If this isnt put together as it should be

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Nizmo240_22

With the mafs element inside a larger diameter tube the ecu is "tricked" into thinking less air is coming into the engine, thus adding less fuel when you have higher flowing injectors. Simple math really.
It's not recommended by any means. Lacking an intercooler will only premote chances of detonation so this should only be attempted on very low boost levels. Hardly anybody attempts this for a reason. Sidemounts are so easy to come by these days.

EDIT: Sure you can tweak the inner diameter of the intake, but timing control is still left alone. I wouldn't attempt high power without some kind of timing control. Fuel management is the most important part of your setup if you don't want it to go boom.

wangan_cruiser

so u could do all the hacked maf and 370cc intercooled set up without any timing control? but not boosting right? im confused lol

s13alltheway!

I just did my Kat with a t4. It wasn't running or idling smoothly and would cut at 4k rpm. Thought it was my tune but ended up being my pump. Big shout out to garage life in elmonte. I thought it Was going to cost me 500 for a dyno tune which was a great deal but they were honest and installed aem fuel pump instead. Thanks for the savings!

SolTNtuz

Hi there, I am looking for a place to dyno tune my 89 240sx KA24DET.
Live in Drummondville, will never return to Total tuning again as I was not pleased with the service last year. I am having a hard time getting a hold of Robin Almasi ( I think he goes to China until late spring early summer ).
Is there anyone else that that is good in Montreal area.
Thanks in advance.

hatch4life

Anyone have experience with the new tomei ka poncams? can't find any reviews on them

RBS14

I edited my post to hopefully not lead people in the wrong direction.

Is this false too?:

A high flow pump will blow out your FPR.
[This is untrue. To a point. I'm running the Walbro 255l/hr high-pressure pump on the stock fuel pressure regulator. However, a z32 tt pump will outflow the fpr. This won't necessarily break it, but it won't be able to hold a constant pressure, will bump up the pressure to the rail, and you'll run rich. Anything over a Walbro 255 hi-flo needs an aftermarket regulator.]
~Jeff

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Jeff240sx

Power Levels
Some companies advertise stage 1, 2, and 3 for turbo kits. This isn't very fair in my opinion, because z32 guys get 5+ levels. So I'm just going to make up new stages, based on what builds I've seen.

Stage .5:
Turbo kit, usually junkyard style, smic, and rrfpr.
Parts needed:
Turbo, manifold, blow off valve (BOV), wastegate (unless you have an actuated turbo), smic, fuel pump, rrfpr.
Estimated power levels: It's hit or miss. I've seen 180rwhp @ 6-8psi, and I've seen 230rwhp @ 8psi.

Stage 1:
Basic turbo kit. FMax and XSEngineering both sell their kits with rrfprs, which irks me, because they rarely include a severely-needed fuel pump. Any well pieced together kit will make the same power levels.
Parts needed: Everything from above, but with better parts, and a FMIC.
Claimed power levels: 220rwhp @ 6psi to 240rwhp at 8psi. Depends on the kit.

Stage 2:
This is where people usually go next.
Parts needed:
3" Exhaust. Aftermarket head filter, usually s-afc + 370cc injectors
Estimated power levels: 240 @ 6psi to 260 @ 8psi.

Stage 3.
About 3 in 10 go this far with their turbo kits.
Parts needed:
This is always a tuned ecu, usually z32 or cobra maf, 370cc injectors or larger, aiming for 3" turbo-back exhaust, so larger downpipe, testpipe or high-flow catalytic convertor. Here grip and traction matter.
Estimated power levels: This is a grey area, as there are so many variables. 370cc injectors top out at 275rwhp or so. As does the stock maf. Ignition system is recommended for 300hp+, because the boost tends to blow out the spark.
Here's what I'll say: Limits: 370cc injectors = 270rwhp @ 8-10psi. 50# injectors = 350rwhp @ 15-18psi. At 325rwhp or so, I'd think about moving to stage 4.

Stage 4:
Time for more boost. But with the factory piston ring lands so prone to shattering, they've got to go. While you're there, there are some optional parts to replace.
Required: Forged pistons. While you're in the motor, think about replacing (optional): Rods, rod and main bearings, oil pump, timing components, all gaskets and seals (front and rear main seals, ect). Servicing the tranny and replacing tranny seals should also be done. (I didn't do that, and now have a leaking rear tranny seal )
Power limits: This is rare air. Encroaching on the 400hp club. 72# injectors will be good to 440rwhp or so. Tuning becomes a major factor for the exact horsepower limits. 50# injectors should be thrown away, because they're still limiting you to 350rwhp.

Stage 5:
The whole damn thing. You've got boost. Lots of it. On your built bottom end. But there's gotta be a top end, too. So fix it.
Parts needed: Cams. Swap in some cams, and you'll feel like it's a different car. You'll need some valve springs and retainers, because a built bottom end and cams will open up a 7200-7500rpm redline, and I'm sure you'd want to use it. While you're there, think about valves, and a valve job. Deburr and polish the head (mild port and polish job). Port match the head for the intake and exhaust manifolds.
Cautions: Do not do a major port and polish. This has been blamed for many high powered motors, from BoostedS14 on here, to Chris May's 2 motors in the 438rwhp s14 that was featured in SCC.
*When you swap cams, your car will go from not wanting to approach redline to bouncing off the rev limiter. Hehehe*
Power levels: You still care about these? It's in the 11 second range. Same power, less boost.

Stage 5+:
This isn't really a stage, but wallet permitting, there are many more things you can do. From standalone engine management and throwing out the maf to creating your own intake manifold, or extrude honing the stockie. Imagination and wallet are the limits. You could have even worked with JWT to develop a 96# injector program (now in progress) for sick, sick power levels. 96# injectors should be good to 575+, I haven't done the calculations on it.

Now. This is for refrence only. Don't bitch when you spend $4k and make 10 or 20hp less than "estimated." Alot depends on tuning, and the condition of your motor. There are also the Nissan Freak motors, which produce 30hp more than they should on any setup. Look at the enjuku SR, 393 hp on a t3/4, while no other SR has done over 330 on that kit.
-Jeff

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AutoRnD

ok now if an adjustable fuel pressure regulator is so bad.. what if i have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator running 550 cc injectors.. without running a chipped ecu or a stand alone.. just a piggy back.. and i am also running the walbro 255 pump.. do you guys think it is ok to turn down the fuel pressure? to lean it out a bit?

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Jeff240sx

It's bad. There is no reason to run any aftermarket fuel pressure regulator on 550cc or 50# injectors. At base fuel pressure, they provide enough fuel for 350rwhp. And running that much power on a piggyback is stupid. So you're not getting any benefits from the regulator. I would, however, suggest an ecu tune for over 260hp.
-Jeff

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AutoRnD

i understand... but due to time constraints as well as a limited budget.. i ain't planning on trying to make more than 250 whp at 10 psi... for the meantime... and when i actually have enough money to go bookoo bucks on nice engine i will also opt for stand alone as well.

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Jeff240sx

You don't need an adjustable fpr, seeing as 550cc injectors are MORE THAN ENOUGH fuel for 250hp. You need some sort of TUNING, and a fuel pressure regulator is not tuning. For the price you'd pay to get a rrfpr tuned, you'd have spent enough for a ecu. They're hard to tune, throw another variable in the mix, and suck. So, stop trying to make excuses for spending the money and accept the fact you've wasted it.
-Jeff

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skatanic28

manifolds (feel free to steal the list and add more)

etdracing http://www.etdracing.com/manifold/manifold6.html
revhard http://www.revhard.com/castmanifolds.html
phat ka-t http://www.phatka-t.com/s13manifold.htm
ssautochrome check ebaymotors
jsgtools kit http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html
iap http://www.import-autoperformance.co...ds_access.html

NismoRB240

just heard of this one but don't know quality I imagine great for a cheap build with like a T25 or T28 http://www.xo2racing.com/cart/produc...roducts_id=693

nightwalker

I know some of you guys are tapping into the block for the oil return line. If anyone could get a how-to, or even just a pic of where-to, that would be awesom.

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RBS14

who is? I've never heard of that. oil pan, yes. block, no. Oil feed comes from the block as stated in my above post. Is that what you were thinking of?

If you are thinking of supply, it's a big round sensor that screws into the block just below the oil filter. It has one wire going into the end of it. you can't miss it if you look for it.

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95Blue240sx

SSauto manifold - http://www.planb-attack.com/kyle/group-buy.htm

When you buy a kit like the Fmax(turbonetics) or Greddy, what is the ratio on the RRFPR?

I would think adding a RRFPR in a 1:1 ratio to any kit would ease in the tuning department. Correct me if i am wrong, but for ever 1 psi of boost the fpr goes up 1 psi. In turn when tuning you are not having to sort of max out the piggy back at each rpm.

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krustindumm

The rates on the FPR's they sell are usually adjustable from 7:1->12:1, IDK what they ship with. Stock FPR is 1:1, that's why it gets a vacuum signal.

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nightwalker

yes, I am talking about oil return into the block. I forget if it was here or FA that everyone was talking about it. Well, anyone here?

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RBS14

why would you do that? what is more effective about it than returning into the oil pan? I fail to see how it would be more beneficial than returning to the oil pan.

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