Feelings on "Rebel" flag - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Mister.E · 03-20-2010, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

By your estimation, swastikas are symbols of evil, simply because the Nazis used them. Nevermind the fact that they've been icons of more than one religion for MANY CENTURIES before old Adolf was even born.

truth, the Japanese kanji for the word temple is a "swastika"

*kingkilburn* · 03-20-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

There's a reason I don't post much in LOUD NOISES, and this thread is one of them.

kingkilburn, you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

You're equating 'Confederate flag' with 'Racist asshole'. That's an ignorant presumption! You're essentially saying that southern people (IE those who come from states that were part of the Confederacy) have NO RIGHT to celebrate their heritage?

By your estimation, swastikas are symbols of evil, simply because the Nazis used them. Nevermind the fact that they've been icons of more than one religion for MANY CENTURIES before old Adolf was even born.

In fact, in your way of thinking, we shouldn't even be permitted to fly the American flag, seeing as how a few hundred years ago we used to permit slavery.

An ignorant statement is untenable, and is maddening to argue against, simply because the person spouting is is typically incapable of understanding logic. I'm hoping that's not the case here, but I won't be surprised if it is.

Yes, the Confederacy did want to maintain slavery. Could that POSSIBLY be due to the fact that a majority of the GDP of the Confederacy was based on agriculture, which needed a very large labor force, and that instantly altering the costs of that labor force would crush the South's economy (which it did)?
Does that mean that your average Joe Kentucky wishes he had a few slaves to mow his grass and clean his gutters? I doubt it.

I think more than anything, you have a problem with people expressing themselves. Freedom of speech is one of our most important rights, and while it's not always pretty or enjoyable, it is a NECESSITY. It shouldn't matter what your viewpoint on a matter is, so long as it doesn't injure someone else, you should be permitted to share it. If that means flying a 150 year old flag for a 'country' which no longer exists, so be it. If it means tattooing swastikas on your forehead, go for it! Maybe you're buddhist, maybe you're a neo-nazi - it doesn't matter, your freedom of speech is what is important.

I'm not above being annoyed by stupid people's choices. Guys wearing baggy pants so low that they barely came to the bottom of his boxers look stupid and I want to slap their heads so hard their ballcaps spin around to the front. Bros with 'Monster', 'Fox', 'Tapout', 'No Fear', etc etc etc stickers on their trucks make me seethe with annoyance at their idiot affinity for brandnames.

At the end of the day, do I want to stop them from expressing themselves? NO.

I want the dude to pull up his pants so that there's no underwear showing (it's called underwear for a reason).
I want the Bro to stop being a brand-whore and advertising the shit he buys to the world.

Also, PROTIP - when attempting to associate a flag with racism, it's best not to wish to perform an act associated with said racism (burning a cross on their lawn).
That sort of thing is akin to saying 'I hate Illinois Nazis so much I want to put them into concentration camps and gas them to death!'.

Best to be like Jake Blues.
"I hate Illinois Nazis."

Some of that I can accept and some I can not. You are putting a lot of words in my mouth.

I will say firstly that a swastika alone is fine, it is what is done with it that can make it bad. Swastikas have been around longer than the German language.

Secondly, what exactly is the heritage of the flag? It is a symbol, not of a country who had slavery but of one who sent its sons to die to keep it. Even when it was no longer necessary economically. Since that time had has been used as a purely a symbol of the south, but that fell out of favor in the early days of WW2.

After that it was used as a rallying point for southern Dixie-crats to be "rebels" while remaining inside the government. The only thing this has caused is more racism and bigotry than before. This showed it's ugly face in Mississippi not ratifying the 13th amendment until 1995.

After this time period the only thing I can find that is positively associated with a Confederate flag is the General Lee.

Now, you tell me how I am supposed to feel. As for Mr. Joe Kentucky there is a very rich history and heritage outside of southern succession. Why would you boil your own heritage down to the one moment of major defeat as a state or even a region?

As for your protip, that is EXACTLY what I want. Lets see if any one empathizes with those poor neo-nazis after they die in gas chambers.

ryguy · 03-20-2010, 11:32 AM

OP, relax. Just sit back and try to realize that the Civil War was not about slavery. That should help you realize what the flag means to some people. That doesn't mean its not sometimes a racist thing, but in my experience most times it's not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BustedS13

it's hoosier as fuck to put it on anything or fly the flag or whatever, but it's not the end of the world.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

Matej · 03-20-2010, 12:08 PM

This thread reminds of that episode of South Park, where people are interviewed about an offensive flag. "I think it is history, I think it is racist."

Personally, flying any kind of a flag or displaying something so everyone has to see what group I belong to/pride/how different I am is tacky to me. For example, I am European, and while I really love Europe and embrace my heritage, I have never felt the need to go around shoving my home country's flag in everyone's face. It just does not seem very polite to me.
At the same time, I do not really take offense to any such minor nonsense, people can fly whatever flag they want for all I care. In the end, it just says, "Hey, look at how much of an attention-craving weenie I am," so the joke is on them, and they do not even realize it.

*kingkilburn* · 03-20-2010, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryguy

OP, relax. Just sit back and try to realize that the Civil War was not about slavery. That should help you realize what the flag means to some people. That doesn't mean its not sometimes a racist thing, but in my experience most times it's not.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

The flag has little to nothing to do with the Civil war in this modern context. It has more to do with the Dixie-crats and rednecks showing there ass than a war fought by some of our great great great great grand fathers.

The Civil war was about state's rights and economic freedom. What rights to protect their economic freedom do you think they(the leaders, not soldiers) were fighting for?

ronmcdon · 03-20-2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

By your estimation, swastikas are symbols of evil, simply because the Nazis used them. Nevermind the fact that they've been icons of more than one religion for MANY CENTURIES before old Adolf was even born.

actually the Nazi swatika & the Buddhist arent the same.
the direction of the forks are different.

otherwise I agree with you completely there.

to the OP's credit though,
(if indeed he does live in Fresno, CA)
that part of CA does earn it's notoriety somewhat in being popular with white supremacy types.
The flag is probably an easy target for his resentment.

Under those particular circumstances,
I'd probably be a bit frustrated.
However I would also respect freedom of speech.
And yes, I'm inclined to believe it's not always meant to express racism.

Back to history though,
yeah I certainly agree the Union's intentions weren't always exactly noble.
but that's another HUGE can of worms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

This thread reminds of that episode of South Park, where people are interviewed about an offensive flag. "I think it is history, I think it is racist."

Personally, flying any kind of a flag or displaying something so everyone has to see what group I belong to/pride/how different I am is tacky to me. For example, I am European, and while I really love Europe and embrace my heritage, I have never felt the need to go around shoving my home country's flag in everyone's face. It just does not seem very polite to me.
At the same time, I do not really take offense to any such minor nonsense, people can fly whatever flag they want for all I care. In the end, it just says, "Hey, look at how much of an attention-craving weenie I am," so the joke is on them, and they do not even realize it.

Lol, well said!
My sentiments exactly.
Bar the US flag, I just see the flag waving as more funny than offensive though.
(as if our conviction to our nation and/or state is compromised otherwise, lol)

**mrmephistopheles** · 03-20-2010, 01:52 PM

MANY YEARS LATER EDIT: FUCK CONFEDERATE FLAGS AND THE TRAITORS THEY REPRESENT. There's no reason to perpetuate that nonsense.

Original post follows:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Secondly, what exactly is the heritage of the flag? It is a symbol, not of a country who had slavery but of one who sent its sons to die to keep it.

After this time period the only thing I can find that is positively associated with a Confederate flag is the General Lee.

Now, you tell me how I am supposed to feel. As for Mr. Joe Kentucky there is a very rich history and heritage outside of southern succession. Why would you boil your own heritage down to the one moment of major defeat as a state or even a region?

As for your protip, that is EXACTLY what I want. Lets see if any one empathizes with those poor neo-nazis after they die in gas chambers.

I'm going to try to keep this brief, as internet discussions about stupid things isn't high on my priority list.

The heritage of the flag is exactly what you said it is - a symbol of a country. Should Texans be ostracized for having pride in their 'Republic of Texas'?

As far as the only positive association you've found for it is the use in Dukes of Hazzard on the General Lee... way to completely not capture the point. It's a show about Southern boys living in the South getting into trouble. Having a Confederate flag on their roof didn't make them racist ANY MORE than Joe Kentucky having it on the bumper of his truck.

Any perception that Confederate flag = racism is pure speculation on your own part. Furthermore, if a person who takes pride in the Confederate flag happens to be racist, it's not BECAUSE he's taking pride in the Confederate flag, it's because he's retarded.

You see, correlation does not imply causation. That is, the mere presence of a confederate flag doesn't not mean the person is racist any more than the presence of a pedobear sticker meaning a person is a pedophile.

Now for your rebuttal to my protip - thank you for conceding the point via sheer ignorance. What you're telling us is that you want to be able to permitted to do horrible things to horrible people. Tell me, does that solve the problem via the high road, or is that debasing one's self to the terrible behavior of the people who've provoked your ire?

Sure, the Nazis did terrible things to people, but what does it make us if we were to do those terrible things right back to them? This isn't ancient Babylon 3800 years ago - eye for an eye isn't really appropriate anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryguy

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

He's saying it's a bumpkin sort of thing to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronmcdon

actually the Nazi swatika & the Buddhist arent the same.
the direction of the forks are different.

otherwise I agree with you completely there.

Buddhism isn't the only religion which utilizes the swastika as a symbol.

*kingkilburn* · 03-20-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmephistopheles

I'm going to try to keep this brief, as internet discussions about stupid things isn't high on my priority list.

The heritage of the flag is exactly what you said it is - a symbol of a country. Should Texans be ostracized for having pride in their 'Republic of Texas'?

As far as the only positive association you've found for it is the use in Dukes of Hazzard on the General Lee... way to completely not capture the point. It's a show about Southern boys living in the South getting into trouble. Having a Confederate flag on their roof didn't make them racist ANY MORE than Joe Kentucky having it on the bumper of his truck.

Any perception that Confederate flag = racism is pure speculation on your own part. Furthermore, if a person who takes pride in the Confederate flag happens to be racist, it's not BECAUSE he's taking pride in the Confederate flag, it's because he's retarded.

You see, correlation does not imply causation. That is, the mere presence of a confederate flag doesn't not mean the person is racist any more than the presence of a pedobear sticker meaning a person is a pedophile.

Now for your rebuttal to my protip - thank you for conceding the point via sheer ignorance. What you're telling us is that you want to be able to permitted to do horrible things to horrible people. Tell me, does that solve the problem via the high road, or is that debasing one's self to the terrible behavior of the people who've provoked your ire?

Sure, the Nazis did terrible things to people, but what does it make us if we were to do those terrible things right back to them? This isn't ancient Babylon 3800 years ago - eye for an eye isn't really appropriate anymore.

He's saying it's a bumpkin sort of thing to do.

The flag of the Republic of Texas does not have any negative connotations that I am aware of and further more it was never a banner for the spread of hate and refusal of rights.

There is no speculation on my part. I speak from my own experiences.

The difference between the flag and pedobear is that pedobear is meant as a joke generally. I personally would be suspicious either way.

The gas chamber comment was meant as an example. Would YOU feel for a group of local Neo-Nazis if you found out they had been rounded up by ethnic minorities and put in a gas chamber? I'm not asking if it would be wrong or saying that those who did it shouldn't be punished.

ESmorz · 03-20-2010, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

The flag of the Republic of Texas does not have any negative connotations

When the Republic of Texas was founded officially they stripped all of the free African Americans of their rights as citizens and were "deported" or thrown into slavery. Texans were fuckers too, but if someone wants to fly their Lonestar flag all the power to them. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference to me.

I bet you have no problem with people who have Japanese flags or the rising sun on their car even though the Japanese Empire not more than 70 years ago killed and pillaged far upwards of 5 million people.

Just let it go.

MandTPhotography · 03-20-2010, 07:09 PM

I live in southern NC, so I see this shit all the time.

If you fly the flag in most neighborhoods, they will make you take it down.

90% of people here fly it on their straight piped trucks just to celebrate redneckism.

Matej · 03-20-2010, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESmorz

I bet you have no problem with people who have Japanese flags or the rising sun on their car even though the Japanese Empire not more than 70 years ago killed and pillaged far upwards of 5 million people.

Man, those are so terrible, I cannot stand them.
Not because I care about who killed who or what is offensive, they are just awfully cheesy.

Wonder if Native Americans get offended by the US flag.

ESmorz · 03-20-2010, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matej

Man, those are so terrible, I cannot stand them.
Not because I care about who killed who or what is offensive, they are just awfully cheesy.

Indeed they are.

It's a piece of cloth or vinyl. Unless it becomes something more than that, then it is what it is. Freedom of Speech lends this to be a case by case problem. If you are flying the Feddy colors and are heading a lynch mob, then it's a problem and it should be dealt with accordingly. If it's just a stupid redneck who has fake balls on their truck, and a stupid flag who really gives a flying fuck?

ibthesouthshouldjustbewalledoff

**mrmephistopheles** · 03-21-2010, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

The flag of the Republic of Texas does not have any negative connotations that I am aware of and further more it was never a banner for the spread of hate and refusal of rights.

There is no speculation on my part. I speak from my own experiences.

The difference between the flag and pedobear is that pedobear is meant as a joke generally. I personally would be suspicious either way.

The gas chamber comment was meant as an example. Would YOU feel for a group of local Neo-Nazis if you found out they had been rounded up by ethnic minorities and put in a gas chamber? I'm not asking if it would be wrong or saying that those who did it shouldn't be punished.

...and it's at this point that I bow out of this thread.

Thank you for failing to grasp many of the points I've presented. I feel vindicated in my initial assessment of your intellect.

I've found another opponent that has a better capacity for rational thought and application of logic:

SR240DET · 03-21-2010, 01:06 AM

only 2-6% of southerns were wealthy enough to even own/need slaves during that time. Tell me why 94-98% of the rest of the confederate soldiers (including free black men) would fight a war, raise a flag, and support an institution that did them no good, nor were they able to afford? The flag doesn't represent hate, it represents the fight against the national government taking away from state rights.

DxZoo · 03-21-2010, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E Double

truth, the Japanese kanji for the word temple is a "swastika"

this is untrue, the symbol isnt kanji, its Sanskrit. The direction of the points are also the opposite direction of a swastika and its angled different. However it is a common symbol for buddhist temples in japan. It is funny when you're looking at a jap car navi and at first glance makes it seem like theres nazi encampments everywhere lol.

*Agamemnon* · 03-21-2010, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Would YOU feel for a group of local Neo-Nazis if you found out they had been rounded up by ethnic minorities and put in a gas chamber?

Absolutely!
What kind of question is that?!
Last time I checked, Neo-Nazis are protected by the bill of rights in this country. Just because they dont have the same beliefs as you do, doesn't mean you can strip their rights away.
Just remember, in America you dont have the right to be offended.

*revat619* · 03-21-2010, 02:19 AM

Kevin, while i do agree with you, i will say this, I've lived in east county San Diego for the last 10 years and every, yes EVERY, person i've come across that's flown that flag in one way or another has indeed been a racist. This was apparent by either their words/actions directed at me or my observations of their words/actions toward another.

It's one thing to be proud of your "heritage" (which when displayed in SoCal is debatable in itself) but if john c. dumb ass was born and raised in santee/el cajon/ramona/alpine/fallbrook/hemet (i say these cities because this is by far where its seen the most and coincidentally the most racist cities in SD county. minus hemet) and he's got these flags all over the place and his actions toward non whites is questionable at best, i have a hard time believing he's flying that flag for reasons other than its association to slavery (i.e. white supremacy)

Is that to say that EVERYONE in America who chooses to fly this flag is racist? No. BUT, given my personal history with such individuals, it does raise my suspicions when i see it.

Kevin edit: While it sucks that you've experienced what you have, this is a good reason for stereotypes to exist. Racist idiots tend to do things similarly (including brandishing the Conf. flag), so the sight of one leading you to suspect a racist isn't necessarily a bad thing - it's a stereotype you've learned and have had enforced. Also, I recall Santee being referred to as Klantee more than once while we lived in San Diego.

VNG704 · 03-21-2010, 03:01 AM

The buddhist swastica-like symbol is different. It is drawn in the opposite direction. Not the same thing.

The confederate flag isn't the flag for racism but the idea of racism is attached to the flag. Lived in NC for 10+ yrs, I care very little what flag someone has, but you guys can't tell me that if you was one in that group of people and your ancestors didn't want to abolish slavery, you'd honor their flag? Yea, it's not all about slavery, just some of it so it's okay. Right... :shifty: But this is america, it's legal.

Related question: At work, where race harrassment is not tollerated, would a confederate flag be okay?

*kingkilburn* · 03-21-2010, 10:51 AM

Let me make this VERY CLEAR.

This is your heritage:

This is racism:

You are arguing based on either a lie or your own ignorance. The flag of the Army of Tennessee hasn't been used for much good since WW2 and seldom before that.

I really don't understand how the banner flown to oppose civil rights can be used for any type of good.

spooled240 · 03-21-2010, 12:04 PM

I think those racist/nazi guys just use that flag because of the slavery issue at the time..i mean come on, how can you put a swastika and a confederate flag on the same banner? Hitler committed huge crimes of genocide and killed americans during WWII, the south during the civil war wanted to keep slavery for economic reasons(slavery is what brought this country up from a 3rd world country btw) Slavery although thought of as a crazy ass idea nowadays was the norm over 200 years ago.

I personally don't care, I think it's great to show pride for you heritage but I also think that the confederate flag is misinterpreted and flown not only for heritage pride obviously w/ the KKK/racists. One of my buddies has some confederate flag things like belt buckles and whatnot and he's cool as fuck, not racist.

BustedS13 · 03-21-2010, 12:04 PM

hey, remember how this country used to have like eleventy billion "injuns"
good thing we took care of that, fly the American flag proudly boys

BUT NOT THE STINKY REBEL FLAG

spooled240 · 03-21-2010, 12:13 PM

^ i was just gonna say that, america in general has had a pretty rough past, kickin out all the indians or killing them if they didn't..this country was pretty damn racist in the beginning lol

BustedS13 · 03-21-2010, 12:32 PM

^ still is. ever seen a tea party rally?

HalveBlue · 03-21-2010, 03:35 PM

This thread begs the question, what exactly is this Southern heritage that it supposedly embodied by the flag of the Army of Tennessee?

In my personal opinion, every individual has the right to fly whatever flag they feel like.

However, the Southern Cross refers to an act of sedition. An act that cost the lives of over half-a-million Americans, the deadliest war in American history.

As such I cannot for the life of me understand why that flag is incorporated in many state flags. Or, as in the case of South Carolina, why the flag is being flown over the state capitol.

It's basically nothing more than a big "Fuck You" to the United States of America.

Also, as far as the swastika is concerned, the symbol has been found all over the world. It's prominently featured in Hindu, Buddhist, Norse, and Native American cultures.

In fact, until the 1930's, the US Army's 45th Infantry Division's unit patch looked like this:

The patch was changed after the NSDAP seized power in Germany and usurped the swastika.

Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.

Matej · 03-21-2010, 04:17 PM

Swastikas are offensive in the western world, unless in context with cultural symbolism/history.
Does not matter what they mean in Japanese/Buddhism/whatever.

It is what people make offensive. Most offensive symbols/gestures/words started as non-offensive. Arguing that they are not offensive because they are not offensive in another culture or that they used to not be offensive is pointless.

If you go to certain countries and show people a thumbs up, you will possibly get beat up. Have fun explaining to them that in some country somewhere it is not offensive.

I personally am not offended by swastikas or the the rebel flag or anything, I am just saying, be careful. Lots of people love to get offended.

HyperTek · 03-21-2010, 04:28 PM

to the OP, theres alot of BS out there, even on this forum, the views can sometimes appear single sided, you just gotta ignore it dude, dont let it get to you because it can drive you crazy. From the stereotypical redneck stuff ive seen from those southern states on the net, sometimes Im glad i dont live out there or have any business, id probably go insane.

*Agamemnon* · 03-21-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HalveBlue

However, the Southern Cross refers to an act of sedition. An act that cost the lives of over half-a-million Americans, the deadliest war in American history.

I think the anwser is found within this statement. Many Americans died for what that flag represented. They died for the lands that "raised" them. Some people see the Southern Cross as a symbol of their sacrifice. To scorn such a symbol is considered by many southerners blasphemy and it spits in the eyes of those who gave their lives for the south.

XnTroubleX · 03-21-2010, 05:18 PM

Before someone gets pissed off by the flag, they need to take the time to read and research the history behind the flag.

""The reason behind the desire to honor symbols of the Confederacy is not racism. It instead stems from a regional identity and the noble notions of state sovereignty. These feelings of regional unity are only strengthened by the poor economic situation in many Southern states, and the sense they have that they suffer in poverty while the Northern states enjoy prosperity. It is understandable as well, only one Southern state makes the top ten ranks for average personal income, and then only comes in at 9th. Meanwhile, half of the states in the lowest ten ranks of personal income are in the South. Add to this economic stagnation and decay and you have a recipe for regional resentment.
The false notion that the Battle Flag must be a racist symbol is born of the mistaken belief that the Civil War was about slavery. This bit of propaganda has been repeated ever since President Lincoln and his political allies decided to “free the slaves” (in actuality Lincoln only freed those slaves in the Confederacy, slaves in Union states such as Maryland and West Virginia remained slaves). The truth, however, is plain to anyone who wishes to delve into the history, and the proof lies in the proposed Corwin Amendment of 1861.

Its usually those who havent taken the time to do so are the ones who are offended by the flag.

How about the Obama shirts that have racially intended statements plastered on them. I get pissed everytime I see a worthless, crack whore or crack dealer wearing one. If that person wants change so bad, They should change themselves and get a effin job and stop waiting on reparations that they feel they deserve. If these people want change so bad why dont they change and start collecting a paycheck instead of a effin welfare check!!

Csomme · 03-21-2010, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BustedS13

^ still is. ever seen a tea party rally?

I've been to 3 of them, including one in DC. Never seen any racist happenings there buddy. In fact, in DC we hung out with a younger black couple most of the weekend.

All my friends who raise the Confed. flag are somewhat racist, just like every other person on the planet, but for them it mainly means they are proud to be born and raised in the South, and the thought of a time/want of a time with less government. THAT was also a deciding factor in the Civil war. Really surprised no one has brought that up yet.

*kingkilburn* · 03-21-2010, 07:38 PM

Would it not be better to honor the memory of the Confederacy with the flag they chose to represent themselves and not the flag of the Army of Tennessee?

If you want to represent state's rights why not use a flag that represents the success of that endeavor?
Gadsden Flag

Or if you want to represent the south at the same time you could use the flag of the Culpeper Minute men.

03-21-2010, 02:19 AM	#47
revat619 Retired General Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 4,672 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	Kevin, while i do agree with you, i will say this, I've lived in east county San Diego for the last 10 years and every, yes EVERY, person i've come across that's flown that flag in one way or another has indeed been a racist. This was apparent by either their words/actions directed at me or my observations of their words/actions toward another. It's one thing to be proud of your "heritage" (which when displayed in SoCal is debatable in itself) but if john c. dumb ass was born and raised in santee/el cajon/ramona/alpine/fallbrook/hemet (i say these cities because this is by far where its seen the most and coincidentally the most racist cities in SD county. minus hemet) and he's got these flags all over the place and his actions toward non whites is questionable at best, i have a hard time believing he's flying that flag for reasons other than its association to slavery (i.e. white supremacy) Is that to say that EVERYONE in America who chooses to fly this flag is racist? No. BUT, given my personal history with such individuals, it does raise my suspicions when i see it. Kevin edit: While it sucks that you've experienced what you have, this is a good reason for stereotypes to exist. Racist idiots tend to do things similarly (including brandishing the Conf. flag), so the sight of one leading you to suspect a racist isn't necessarily a bad thing - it's a stereotype you've learned and have had enforced. Also, I recall Santee being referred to as Klantee more than once while we lived in San Diego. __________________ www.Jspec.com www.SpeedAlliance.com www.PoweredByMax.net Instagram: @rjsladerade

03-21-2010, 10:51 AM	#49
kingkilburn Philosopher King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: FresYes Posts: 3,041 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Let me make this VERY CLEAR. This is your heritage: This is racism: You are arguing based on either a lie or your own ignorance. The flag of the Army of Tennessee hasn't been used for much good since WW2 and seldom before that. I really don't understand how the banner flown to oppose civil rights can be used for any type of good. __________________ G O L D E N B E A R R E P U B L I C

03-21-2010, 12:04 PM	#51
BustedS13 Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Phoenix AZ Age: 36 Posts: 10,287 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	hey, remember how this country used to have like eleventy billion "injuns" good thing we took care of that, fly the American flag proudly boys BUT NOT THE STINKY REBEL FLAG __________________

03-21-2010, 12:32 PM	#53
BustedS13 Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Phoenix AZ Age: 36 Posts: 10,287 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^ still is. ever seen a tea party rally? __________________

03-21-2010, 04:28 PM	#56
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,222 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	to the OP, theres alot of BS out there, even on this forum, the views can sometimes appear single sided, you just gotta ignore it dude, dont let it get to you because it can drive you crazy. From the stereotypical redneck stuff ive seen from those southern states on the net, sometimes Im glad i dont live out there or have any business, id probably go insane. __________________ Keep it Classy

03-20-2010, 12:08 PM	#34
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	This thread reminds of that episode of South Park, where people are interviewed about an offensive flag. "I think it is history, I think it is racist." Personally, flying any kind of a flag or displaying something so everyone has to see what group I belong to/pride/how different I am is tacky to me. For example, I am European, and while I really love Europe and embrace my heritage, I have never felt the need to go around shoving my home country's flag in everyone's face. It just does not seem very polite to me. At the same time, I do not really take offense to any such minor nonsense, people can fly whatever flag they want for all I care. In the end, it just says, "Hey, look at how much of an attention-craving weenie I am," so the joke is on them, and they do not even realize it.

03-20-2010, 07:09 PM	#40
MandTPhotography Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 801 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	I live in southern NC, so I see this shit all the time. If you fly the flag in most neighborhoods, they will make you take it down. 90% of people here fly it on their straight piped trucks just to celebrate redneckism.

03-21-2010, 01:06 AM	#44
SR240DET Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: orida Posts: 1,488 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	only 2-6% of southerns were wealthy enough to even own/need slaves during that time. Tell me why 94-98% of the rest of the confederate soldiers (including free black men) would fight a war, raise a flag, and support an institution that did them no good, nor were they able to afford? The flag doesn't represent hate, it represents the fight against the national government taking away from state rights.

03-21-2010, 03:01 AM	#48
VNG704 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,575 Trader Rating: (17) Feedback Score: 17 reviews	The buddhist swastica-like symbol is different. It is drawn in the opposite direction. Not the same thing. The confederate flag isn't the flag for racism but the idea of racism is attached to the flag. Lived in NC for 10+ yrs, I care very little what flag someone has, but you guys can't tell me that if you was one in that group of people and your ancestors didn't want to abolish slavery, you'd honor their flag? Yea, it's not all about slavery, just some of it so it's okay. Right... :shifty: But this is america, it's legal. Related question: At work, where race harrassment is not tollerated, would a confederate flag be okay?

03-21-2010, 12:04 PM	#50
spooled240 Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 4,143 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	I think those racist/nazi guys just use that flag because of the slavery issue at the time..i mean come on, how can you put a swastika and a confederate flag on the same banner? Hitler committed huge crimes of genocide and killed americans during WWII, the south during the civil war wanted to keep slavery for economic reasons(slavery is what brought this country up from a 3rd world country btw) Slavery although thought of as a crazy ass idea nowadays was the norm over 200 years ago. I personally don't care, I think it's great to show pride for you heritage but I also think that the confederate flag is misinterpreted and flown not only for heritage pride obviously w/ the KKK/racists. One of my buddies has some confederate flag things like belt buckles and whatnot and he's cool as fuck, not racist.

03-21-2010, 12:13 PM	#52
spooled240 Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 4,143 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	^ i was just gonna say that, america in general has had a pretty rough past, kickin out all the indians or killing them if they didn't..this country was pretty damn racist in the beginning lol

03-21-2010, 03:35 PM	#54
HalveBlue Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: I'm somewhere where I don't know where I am! Posts: 1,549 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	This thread begs the question, what exactly is this Southern heritage that it supposedly embodied by the flag of the Army of Tennessee? In my personal opinion, every individual has the right to fly whatever flag they feel like. However, the Southern Cross refers to an act of sedition. An act that cost the lives of over half-a-million Americans, the deadliest war in American history. As such I cannot for the life of me understand why that flag is incorporated in many state flags. Or, as in the case of South Carolina, why the flag is being flown over the state capitol. It's basically nothing more than a big "Fuck You" to the United States of America. Also, as far as the swastika is concerned, the symbol has been found all over the world. It's prominently featured in Hindu, Buddhist, Norse, and Native American cultures. In fact, until the 1930's, the US Army's 45th Infantry Division's unit patch looked like this: The patch was changed after the NSDAP seized power in Germany and usurped the swastika. Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.

03-21-2010, 04:17 PM	#55
Matej Post Whore! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 9,423 Trader Rating: (39) Feedback Score: 39 reviews	Swastikas are offensive in the western world, unless in context with cultural symbolism/history. Does not matter what they mean in Japanese/Buddhism/whatever. It is what people make offensive. Most offensive symbols/gestures/words started as non-offensive. Arguing that they are not offensive because they are not offensive in another culture or that they used to not be offensive is pointless. If you go to certain countries and show people a thumbs up, you will possibly get beat up. Have fun explaining to them that in some country somewhere it is not offensive. I personally am not offended by swastikas or the the rebel flag or anything, I am just saying, be careful. Lots of people love to get offended.

03-21-2010, 05:18 PM	#58
XnTroubleX Zilvia Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: louisiana Age: 37 Posts: 293 Trader Rating: (7) Feedback Score: 7 reviews	Before someone gets pissed off by the flag, they need to take the time to read and research the history behind the flag. ""The reason behind the desire to honor symbols of the Confederacy is not racism. It instead stems from a regional identity and the noble notions of state sovereignty. These feelings of regional unity are only strengthened by the poor economic situation in many Southern states, and the sense they have that they suffer in poverty while the Northern states enjoy prosperity. It is understandable as well, only one Southern state makes the top ten ranks for average personal income, and then only comes in at 9th. Meanwhile, half of the states in the lowest ten ranks of personal income are in the South. Add to this economic stagnation and decay and you have a recipe for regional resentment. The false notion that the Battle Flag must be a racist symbol is born of the mistaken belief that the Civil War was about slavery. This bit of propaganda has been repeated ever since President Lincoln and his political allies decided to “free the slaves” (in actuality Lincoln only freed those slaves in the Confederacy, slaves in Union states such as Maryland and West Virginia remained slaves). The truth, however, is plain to anyone who wishes to delve into the history, and the proof lies in the proposed Corwin Amendment of 1861. Its usually those who havent taken the time to do so are the ones who are offended by the flag. How about the Obama shirts that have racially intended statements plastered on them. I get pissed everytime I see a worthless, crack whore or crack dealer wearing one. If that person wants change so bad, They should change themselves and get a effin job and stop waiting on reparations that they feel they deserve. If these people want change so bad why dont they change and start collecting a paycheck instead of a effin welfare check!! __________________

03-21-2010, 07:38 PM	#60
kingkilburn Philosopher King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: FresYes Posts: 3,041 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Would it not be better to honor the memory of the Confederacy with the flag they chose to represent themselves and not the flag of the Army of Tennessee? If you want to represent state's rights why not use a flag that represents the success of that endeavor? Gadsden Flag Or if you want to represent the south at the same time you could use the flag of the Culpeper Minute men. __________________ G O L D E N B E A R R E P U B L I C Last edited by kingkilburn; 03-21-2010 at 08:00 PM..

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode