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Old 05-13-2010, 11:20 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by jspaeth View Post
I just want to point out that in my LIMITED EXPERIENCE WITH MY CAR, the OEM knock sensor is working VERY well for me.
The knock sensors do work well, but the problem is - they often work too well. I'd say darn near worse than LSx/3800 ones. They are certainly a valuable tool, but in the same respect also nothing to base everything from. With that said, I do know a few guys that only roll by the knock...essentially make power till it pings ya know.

As with anything, there is no perfect way. The thing is, (and you know this especially as you do a very good job of troubleshooting for sure, unlike most haha) the best thing to do is get all the information, and decide which is best from there, never staying 'bias'.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:06 PM   #212
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i dont have time to comments on the shit that was posted before until tomorrow...

Heres something i dont think has been mentioned, maybe it has:
Rom tune theres only minor tuning if any when you get a new part. you dont have to do start it and "hope" it runs and possibly be running super rich/lean and harm your setup.
i know that when i get a new part, install it, get my new rom tune...i can just start my car and drive the shit out of it. one check with the wide band and im good to go.
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Old 05-16-2010, 01:35 AM   #213
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cody, I now wish I was talking shit this entire thread because I would have taken you up on your offer. You know, the one about covering gas to run at the Glen... I guess Ill have to dream on!
Just dont get me that cheap stuff because I dont want to be detenating the whole way. I want 93 shell with v-power additive that is enhanced with nitrogen and keeps my valves clean because it comes from the tops of the fuel tanks and is actually rated at a higher octane than advertised.
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^^^^ Is a joke in case people didnt notice.

And enhanced with nitrogen...... To me, nitrogen is nothing. It does not burn, it does not change pressure with temperature and it is a gas. If anything this tells me that gas particles are displacing liquid volume thus giving you less gas when you pump (if it indeed actually has it in it in the first place. Nitrogen is the fanciest way to say NOTHING, because if there is a element that is nothing it is nitrogen. The air we breathe is 78% nitrogen, why should we add a few more particles to our gas? Is that little bit going to get the valves that much cleaner than the nitrogen in the air is going to get them anyways?
I bet 3 years ago hemi charger was on the forums preaching about the tornado fuel saver. ZOMG!!!!11 IT SPINS THE AIR MIXING THE FUEL BETTAR!!!1
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Old 05-27-2010, 11:50 PM   #214
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I finally took a look at this thread and the logs... although my 20 psi log stops at 4900 rpm.. I would like to see the MAF values which kind of tell the story of how consistent the boost controller is between runs. I was hoping for AFR plots as well in the drf files, which are not there... That is kind of crucial in comparing tunes.


I have a ton of these kinds of comparo dyno charts my customers have sent in after I did their ecus... but I don't post stuff like this.. it entices too much forum drama.


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Old 05-28-2010, 08:07 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by R.S. Enthalpy View Post
I finally took a look at this thread and the logs... although my 20 psi log stops at 4900 rpm.. I would like to see the MAF values which kind of tell the story of how consistent the boost controller is between runs. I was hoping for AFR plots as well in the drf files, which are not there... That is kind of crucial in comparing tunes.


I have a ton of these kinds of comparo dyno charts my customers have sent in after I did their ecus... but I don't post stuff like this.. it entices too much forum drama.


R.S. Enthalpy
i will have cody email you the other datalogs that we have for the car too

we never touched the boost controller between runs other than to turn it off (10psi) and to turn it on to high boost (20psi)

afrs was 11.3-11.8 range for both ecus

thanks again for helping me out with everything on this car...i tell everyone about how great you guys are and how helpful you have been through this whole process
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:32 AM   #216
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codyace, your car sucks ass. I'll bring mine up and you can run me at your favourite short track.

I predict... double DNF!!!
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:18 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.S. Enthalpy View Post
I finally took a look at this thread and the logs... although my 20 psi log stops at 4900 rpm.. I would like to see the MAF values which kind of tell the story of how consistent the boost controller is between runs. I was hoping for AFR plots as well in the drf files, which are not there... That is kind of crucial in comparing tunes.
I'm actually working right now on a setup through and LC1 that will allow me to input a 3 bar map sensor, to get boost per RPM, and true AFR. Trust me, if I can do anything, it's to help you and clark out, to make some sweet stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.S. Enthalpy View Post
I have a ton of these kinds of comparo dyno charts my customers have sent in after I did their ecus... but I don't post stuff like this.. it entices too much forum drama.

R.S. Enthalpy
I really have no clue why it didn't log your run past - I didn't even notice that. I'll dig back through tomorrow on my laptop (damn you dogfish head) to find a few logs from before.

If it comes down to it, I'll make matt throw in the tune and run it again

And yes, I can understand thd drama around this -- again I never would have imagined it, until my PM box blew up. F me.

(ps: manifold works awesome yet Thanks again Scott )

(pps: i just found two eprom chips in my desk drawer, I'll be mailing them back to you asap, as i didn't realize we even had them)




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codyace, your car sucks ass. I'll bring mine up and you can run me at your favourite short track.

I predict... double DNF!!!
Hahahah! SBC can never loooooooose!!!! Damn you and that short track stipulation, even my 4.6 FD can't pull ya hahah.

(If I do get down to VIR this year, you better bring your ass up )
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Old 05-31-2010, 05:53 PM   #218
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Hahahah! SBC can never loooooooose!!!! Damn you and that short track stipulation, even my 4.6 FD can't pull ya hahah.

(If I do get down to VIR this year, you better bring your ass up )
Lucky for you I am running full street setup this year. I got sick of running ragged on a tin can.

Full 10-pt rollcage, full extra thick insulation, sub, amp, speakers. Everything.

I'm probably carrying an extra 300 pounds this season, but it's worth it since I'm using it as my DD now.

Power is the same so I'll be considerably slower than seasons past.

You may have a chance
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:08 AM   #219
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Lucky for you I am running full street setup this year. I got sick of running ragged on a tin can.

Full 10-pt rollcage, full extra thick insulation, sub, amp, speakers. Everything.

I'm probably carrying an extra 300 pounds this season, but it's worth it since I'm using it as my DD now.

Power is the same so I'll be considerably slower than seasons past.

You may have a chance

Are you telling me I need to buy a remote switch for my boost controller? hehe. I'll revert to "squirt and park" driving haha

I really would love a ride in a sorted (like your car) v8 track 240...anyone I've been in have been really unsorted/hacked. The FD's I've been in (granted awesome to start with) are always much more fun.
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Old 06-01-2010, 11:31 AM   #220
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What is "sorted" vs. "unsorted/hacked"?

Most of the work I've done was drivetrain and chassis. The suspension geometry is pretty much stock other than coils.

I need better brakes and rubber so I'm hoping to get those this year.
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Old 06-01-2010, 02:38 PM   #221
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wow i've never seen cody get vicious in a thread before haha. I like it.
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:56 PM   #222
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What is "sorted" vs. "unsorted/hacked"?

Most of the work I've done was drivetrain and chassis. The suspension geometry is pretty much stock other than coils.

I need better brakes and rubber so I'm hoping to get those this year.
Most of the 240 v8 cars I've been in barely run, and are poorly put together. I would assume yours is not haha.

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wow i've never seen cody get vicious in a thread before haha. I like it.
I really don't like getting caught up in forum bullshit, as it ultimately brings down the entire thread
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:01 PM   #223
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Mine can run all day without overheating or blowing up if I drive it. I don't know about if other people drive it hardcore mad drift style.
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:41 PM   #224
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Wowser, I started reading this thread to learn a bit more about ROM tunes and now i have a migraine the likes of which could only be caused by a truck running on 93 octane Shell V-Power gas. Seriously, 8 pages. I have never seen so much patience demonstrated on Zilvia towards any one member in a single thread. Anyways, i'm not even going to ask any of the questions i thought of while reading this. Haha, I'm going to bed but i'll probably pm codyace about some stuff later this week...
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:16 PM   #225
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I tried my best to deal with him (as we all did) but sometimes you can't help everyone. Hopefully his short banning may wisen him up to how it works in reality.

Hope to see that PM soon


Again guys, this thread was supposed to be about how we have two great tuners producing ROM runes for us, that work very well out of the box. Not a single one of you should be hesitant to purchase either tune, because in reality, both work great. Sure we could have a crazy 'retune' battle, but the point is - not every car is the same. I mean, it's pretty obvious that a well setup car will make great power regardless of it being Enthalpy and or JWT. I mean jeepers, this car traps 120mph....that's proof in the pudding if you ask me...hell most 30r guys here with 'drag' cars have a hard time doing that...and here are two T2 guys doing it without issue.

RS Enthalpy, and JWT are two of the best things our community could have - there is no reason to have this 'debate' of what is better, as it's pretty freakin obvious that both will make awesome power. Sure you will always have examples of cars having seperate issues amongst both tunes, but the reality is, that 15 hp is 'nothing' between two dynos. Trap speeds are the true 'check' for speed, as you can't deny physics.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:47 AM   #226
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Not a single one of you should be hesitant to purchase either tune, because in reality, both work great. Sure we could have a crazy 'retune' battle, but the point is - not every car is the same
Designing a fuel/timing map is not easy. Every single car is unique based on the combination of parts installed on the engine.

Even if you have the exact same setup, the application determines how much tuning needs to be done.

There is no "perfect" out of the box tune. Everything relies on the skills of the person doing the tuning.


Anyone who expects a plug-n-play tune at this level would be wise to learn how a basic ROM map works. There are literally infinite ways to tune a car.
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:21 AM   #227
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Designing a fuel/timing map is not easy. Every single car is unique based on the combination of parts installed on the engine.

Even if you have the exact same setup, the application determines how much tuning needs to be done.

There is no "perfect" out of the box tune. Everything relies on the skills of the person doing the tuning.


Anyone who expects a plug-n-play tune at this level would be wise to learn how a basic ROM map works. There are literally infinite ways to tune a car.
I certainly agree to the 'perfect' aspect of things but the point is, neither of these ROM tunes is going to be responsible for blowing the car up, and these power levels.

My point was, both will work well. Perfect? Probably not. Good enough? I'd say for sure. I mean in the grand scheme of things, if we start adding up all of the 'shortcuts' on a car, no body would even want to drive them
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:32 AM   #228
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I certainly agree to the 'perfect' aspect of things but the point is, neither of these ROM tunes is going to be responsible for blowing the car up, and these power levels.
I didn't follow the argument, but if someone blames a ROM tune for blowing up the engine should blame the person doing the tuning.

If it's a DIYer attempting to install a base map, then it's completely your fault.

If it's an experienced tuner that blew the engine, then talk to them and see what went wrong.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:48 AM   #229
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I didn't follow the argument, but if someone blames a ROM tune for blowing up the engine should blame the person doing the tuning.

If it's a DIYer attempting to install a base map, then it's completely your fault.

If it's an experienced tuner that blew the engine, then talk to them and see what went wrong.
I think we're agreeing hehe.

The thread got derailed by HemiCharger saying this D Jetro was best, even though it makes terrible power, and pings on anything but one brand of gas. All we tried to explain to him, is that a JWT or Enthalpy ECU for a car (and right mods) is better than a inexperienced tuner with a standalone.
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:36 PM   #230
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easiest way to put it.
i know nothing, NOTHING about tuning. i have an afc that i can bring my afr's to the level they need to be. setting base timing and dialing things in is something i have just started learning in that last week.
if i had to do that from scratch, and install new sensor just to use something, i wouldnt do it.
i bought an aem ems and have had it for 3 years now and never installed it. bought a rom tune ecu and got to drive my car for the first time in 2 years...WORTH IT!!!

i have said it before and i will say it again, i have an Enthalpy rom tune and love it. i have dealt with JWT back in the day (about 5 years ago) and loved the service i got from them. honestly didnt even cross my mind when it came time to get my rom tune.
I also cant believe the service i have received from Enthalpy. Late night wrenchin on my car and my phone rings...Its Martin with enthalpy checking to see if i have it running yet. Dude is super cool, willing to help and KNOWS HIS SHIT!

just my $.02
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:44 PM   #231
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easiest way to put it.
i know nothing, NOTHING about tuning. i have an afc that i can bring my afr's to the level they need to be. setting base timing and dialing things in is something i have just started learning in that last week.
if i had to do that from scratch, and install new sensor just to use something, i wouldnt do it.
i bought an aem ems and have had it for 3 years now and never installed it. bought a rom tune ecu and got to drive my car for the first time in 2 years...WORTH IT!!!

i have said it before and i will say it again, i have an Enthalpy rom tune and love it. i have dealt with JWT back in the day (about 5 years ago) and loved the service i got from them. honestly didnt even cross my mind when it came time to get my rom tune.
I also cant believe the service i have received from Enthalpy. Late night wrenchin on my car and my phone rings...Its Martin with enthalpy checking to see if i have it running yet. Dude is super cool, willing to help and KNOWS HIS SHIT!

just my $.02
kthanksbye

Imagine if you knew what the hell you were doing! You could input the Enthalpy or JWT tune into the Standalone and then make some corrections to make things even better and get ever better gas mileage.
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:49 PM   #232
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yeah no shit right...some day, some day.

im in no hurry to tackle that yet. im just happy my car runs and runs decent.
although, un-related topic but figure i would share....
i took it to the strip the other night. car had some issues, but no excuses here. its mainly driver failure.
my best time was 14.225 at 101.98 mph
did my burn out, used my launch controller. hooked leaving the line, but no more the 60ft out, tires just light up..get out of the fuel, get back in it and play catch up to everyone. next race is July 2nd so i have some time to learn to drag my car.

let the flaming begin..
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:55 PM   #233
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yeah no shit right...some day, some day.

im in no hurry to tackle that yet. im just happy my car runs and runs decent.
although, un-related topic but figure i would share....
i took it to the strip the other night. car had some issues, but no excuses here. its mainly driver failure.
my best time was 14.225 at 101.98 mph
did my burn out, used my launch controller. hooked leaving the line, but no more the 60ft out, tires just light up..get out of the fuel, get back in it and play catch up to everyone. next race is July 2nd so i have some time to learn to drag my car.

let the flaming begin..
Yeah it just takes practice.

With stock SR swap and flywheel on street tires, I went 13.3 at 100 mph with a 1.93 60'.

Now I have like 375 whp or so and a lightweight flywheel and just can't launch it anymore....

Best is 13.1 @ 112 with a 2.3 60'.
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:58 PM   #234
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dude same shit..
basically stock setup, 13.4 @ 103 with a 2.6 60ft.

now i have a built monster, hp unknown but i cant hook for shit. well i can hook, i can t keep em from spinning on the track.
i still need your help with that boost controller, which i got and have procrastinated installing.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:22 PM   #235
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boy ole boy this HemiCharger guy sure sounded like a DOPE. I run standalone as well. Can you download these tunes into your standalone?
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:30 PM   #236
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boy ole boy this HemiCharger guy sure sounded like a DOPE. I run standalone as well. Can you download these tunes into your standalone?

No, not that I know of.... i meant if you had the software to open them or new how to view the maps and corrections, you could easily manually put them into a standalone and then tinker away
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Old 06-14-2010, 10:16 PM   #237
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Codyace, I think you have a great recipe for a 400hp ride. Do you think adding a wastegate would have any added benefit, perhaps a little faster spool? Keep up the good work man, I am going to follow your reccomendations closely when I start my engine build.
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:21 AM   #238
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Codyace, I think you have a great recipe for a 400hp ride. Do you think adding a wastegate would have any added benefit, perhaps a little faster spool? Keep up the good work man, I am going to follow your reccomendations closely when I start my engine build.
we have a tial 38mm wg welded onto the stock manifold

heres a pic of what it looks like

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Old 06-15-2010, 05:37 PM   #239
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A question about the turbo, most estimates I have seen put the 2871R's output at 350-385hp. You guys are running it at 400+, are they underrated, and wouldn't pushing them towards the upper limits of thier output be hard on the turbine?

Last edited by Blacklines86; 06-15-2010 at 05:38 PM.. Reason: misspelling
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Old 06-16-2010, 01:08 PM   #240
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A question about the turbo, most estimates I have seen put the 2871R's output at 350-385hp. You guys are running it at 400+, are they underrated, and wouldn't pushing them towards the upper limits of thier output be hard on the turbine?

depends on the setup of the motor

we are only running 20psi which is in the efficancy range of the turbo

but with properly matched cams and having two great tuners...that is how the power is made
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