Srjustin

Hey guys title says it all but here are my plans/ goals.

I want 300whp now i understand you can get that with t28 550cc injectors z32 maf good rom tune. But i got the money right now for a mega squirt 2 and its plug and play. I know 300 is low hp for a stand-alone but im wanting to know if it work be better or a rom tune is fine? I have a sr20det also so you know what engine i have. I mostly just want options for this and if its worth the money to get the mega squirt.

steve shadows

Mega Squirt hands down. Or a used PFC L Jetro would work fine for that output too...

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Srjustin

Ok now if i he the.mega squirt im new at tuning os it self self explaining? Or should i still pay for one?

lewisfk

^^ Steve Shadow please tell me more about this Mega Squirt! Sounds like a bad 80's porn.

Biggamehit

Depends one which MS you run. MS first edition had no spark control so you had to add MSD to the mix. MS-II added spark control and a few other features later. It's universal and can mate to any car however you must wire everything in, add sensors and build maps from scratch. It's not bad but......time consuming and anything that keeps me from the track to long is not worth it when there are other quicker effective options such as Power FC.

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Srjustin

It says it comes ready with a factory tune and everything needed let me put the link up

Srjustin

Biggamehit

I see.. that was just info from my experience years ago with it. I have not looked at or seen it since 2006 so im sure it has changed.

nice!

I am not one to really lose sleep over what others do.. but personally would never put a rom anything on my cars.. way to many variables.

Edit

just checked it out.. they really did revamp it and looks good. I see that the trigger wheel is still needed. If you asking id go power fc over this you can actually get them cheaper these days and couple it with a FC Dataloggit for about the same price and no need to mod a trigger wheel/pick up onto your setup. The intergreated Map sensor is awesome should one want to go for a higher boost/no MAF setup. I have been tuning my own setups for a while now and might give this a go at an later time as on paper the new MS looks very solid.

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jamg

enthalpy tune is much cheaper and cost effective.

Srjustin

Whats a trigger wheel? I didnt see that.

4x4le

Dont order a rom tune, have someone actually tune your car. If you get a megasquirt or other standalone dont attempt to tune it yourself. It can be done, but not by you considering the questions your asking (no offence intended).

There is NOTHING wrong with a rom tune if it is live tuned on your car. Mail order tunes are bad news all the way around.

jasonb

i dont' post much here but this thread caught my eye. the trigger disc is a replacement disc for your CAS so that the megasquirt 2 cpu in this kit can pick up the cam angles. they do say it is included:

i looked back through my email and diyautotune guys sent an email announce for this thing on 4/19/12. as it turns out, the newer megasquirt 3 (with a faster cpu) added (experimental) support for the sr20det CAS about a year ago. looks that it then got baked into 1.1.2 last summer as announced here: Megasquirt MSEXTRA / MS3EFI • MS3 firmware 1.1.2 released (View topic)

so, in short, if you want the plug and play kit you have to put up with switching out your wheel. if you don't mind wiring or if you dont mind making an adapter harness DIYBOB Available Models at DIYAutoTune.com then you can get the extra features of the ms3.

4x4le

Changing out the disk is no biggy. It is expected with some (like aem).

Biggamehit

Yeaup that is what I should have said. The mail order ones... no go.

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Srjustin

How do you change the disc? And also i wanted to learn how to tune my self. I know you can mess stuff up but i have seen people that know nothing bout tuning learn.

jasonb

i gotta say if you have an interest in learning to tune then do it. get the pnp kit you linked to and try it out. i should think if you keep the boost low (< 4psi) you cant hurt the motor. even if you have it professionally tuned for higher boost there is still honor in installing, setting up and tuning all the rest.

4x4le

You can blow up a motor n/a man. The amount of boost does not determine the destruction of detenation.

There is nothing wrong with learning how to tune, it is just difficult because the internet is full of bad advice like you just gave.

Croustibat

There is no way a MS is "plug and play".

For 300HP dont bother. Also, having a tool does not mean you know how to use it, so forget it because you need some other tools that are not exactly free if you want to so a proper job, these are named wideband AFR, EGT and knock sensors and gauges, plus dyno time.

BTW a dirty job means you will kill your engine. So just get someone to map your car, he should have all the tools needed.

jorge1190

I run an MS PNP from DIYAutotune on my S13 SR.

Stock engine with ARP headstuds
Greddy T517z
550cc injectors
MAP sensor that comes on the MS

i make 330 WHP and 302 TQ on 17 PSI with AFR of 11.2 at WOT.

The MS PNP is well worth it for the price. The trigger wheel is easy to change. You either put it on right or 180 off. If your car doesn't start just flip it over.

I run both my fans off my MS and also have a wideband going directly to it (Innovate LC-1). You will have to get an IAT bung welded on your cold pipe.

Don't try to tune it yourself.

jasonb

ic, a sr20det at 8.5:1 CR running essentially naturally aspirated using diyautotune's base spark map is a regular ticking time bomb. yeah.

codyace

:AVP and Shadow protection jacket on: (hi guys!)

For a 300hp street car, I'm not sure why anyone would look beyond a JWT or Enthalpy Rom Tuned ECU. REAL deal plug and play, no worries...drive's like stock, reacts like stock, and doesn't blow up like stock

Sure it maybe down a few HP, but is it worth the cost? Hard to say. I can point to countless 300-450 whp JWT and Enthalpy cars that have run thousands of miles without issue nor complaint.


I'll forever say that when it comes to tunes in ranking of best to worst

Competently Tuned Standalone > JWT or Enthalpy > AFC > Moron-Speed Tuned Standalone

I think we all know that a great tuner behind the computer is always the best option, however the issue is that the majority of tuners are not good, nor anywhere near as good as the quality ROM tuned setups available for our cars. So while owners think they have a better setup, the reality is they don't.

But with that said you've also got a HUGE price difference amongst those choices as well. Is that standalone and tune 1000 dollars better than the rom tuned ECU? I'd be hard pressed to give a solid answer for a sub 400whp street driven car. The other thing a rom tune does is really exemplify a poorly setup car...vacuum leaks, timing off, etc etc will result in a poor running car...where sometimes a crappy tuned standalone can bandaide such issues, giving the owner the illusion that the tune is the answer, when the reality is the problem still exists. Happens all the time.


Cliffs: Get a GOOD tune from a GOOD tuner on a GOOD ems, or go with a Jim Wolf or Enthalpy ECU. Anything else will just frustrate ya.

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4x4le

Thats not what I said at all, and thats not what you said either. You said which is false

Ive never flamed you lol.

I just have a few points of evidence in my favor that going with pretuned ecus are a bad idea, even excluding the engine I had blow up while running one as I may have been running too much boost.

We once filled up a 5 gallon bucket with various boards that were pretuned. Many of the customers had stories of blown engines, or revisions that didnt get them running right, poor driveablilty, poor fuel economy, or un acceptable power levels (but many people have un realistic expectations in that department).

I have looked over the bin file on several of the tuned ecus, and the load scale and rpm scale is NEVER scaled enough. You are almost ALWAYS running off the map at high boost or high rpm. That is just silly.

And this one is from cars that I have tuned personally. One time I tuned 2 stock sr's back to back with stock injectors and it was amazing how different the 2 fuel maps were considering both had walbro 255 in tanks and stock fprs and stock injectors and z32 fuel filters. This tells me that when injectors have some use on them (or the fpr) that the fuel being delivered is so different. Those 2 cars were like within 2-3 hp of each other was all so the end result was the same but there is no way each others tunes would have been safe on them, and an averaged tune wouldnt have been safe for them either.
I have seen very similar results with stock na/ka's however I have not tuned any of those back to back.

Lastly, whenever I warn against pre tuned ecus, you are always their rebuttal to my comments. If they were so good, codyace wouldnt always have to be the proof they are not.

It is very possible to have a good experience with a pre tuned ecu. My point is if you have seen what I have you would be singing the same tune I am. There is no doubt in my mind you wouldnt if your an honest person.


My suggestions for custom tuning is not just for power either. It is for over all safety of your engine. Its not easy to find a good tuner but the bad ones are pretty easy to check off the list. If they have a dyno that is loaded by inertia (dyno jet comes to mind) dont bother. Some mustangs can be OK but the weighted rollers and how the data is aquired is still far from optimal. Dyno Dynamics, dynotech, and dyna pac are the 3 dynos someone that understands why they are doing what they are doing would purchase. Dyno jets are what tuners that want to make the customer feel good by showing inflated hp numbers to their customers purchase.

Would you believe me if I told you I dont even have a hp readout when I tune a car most of the time? I end up pulling it up when a customer wants to see the progress, and Im usually gaining after each pull, but that isnt what Im even looking at when I tune.

codyace

Oh I know, i was trying to make a funny with the stupid emoticon thingies and I guess it didn't work. I knew I should have used the snoop dog one that would have been better


And that sort of stuff is always the X factor with many of these things. I think most 'poor running' setups are guys with a variety of other issues that needed be addressed first.

And that's the thing that is ultimatly odd to me, is that I have personally installed 20-30 ECU's myself, and a bunch of other friends over the years on various cars have, and maybe 1-2 had actual issues with the car. Granted these were all lower HP setups that didn't push the engine that hard, but I've got a hard time really looking beyond them for a normal street car.

The issue is (much like you point out) is that the 240 crowd owners seem to be a bit less cognizant of their ability (and the cars)...of which I think that helps lead to much of the overall issues.

I'm not really sure how *anyone* can accurately even begin tuning on a dynojet...don't get me wrong for doing baselines/mod improvement stuff I see no issue but I know in my experience it's nearly impossible to get them remotely load correctly to give good street results.

With that said, that's why I said I'd trust a rom tune before a crappy standalone tune as if anyone is tuning on an old persay 248, you know it's not going to work right at all. We used to goof around with the turbo ls stuff for fun, but man it's so much nicer on a good dyno...although the issue is now the dyno that we use is a gigantic roller for outlaw 10.5 type cars...she really makes the old 2.0 grunt

Totally understand ya...we just keep feeding the cells the honey they want, and watch the curve get nicer.

Trust me, I know a good tune goes a LONG way. The issue is, good tuners are so few and far between that I still think it's safer for the common guy to run a rom setup for their car. But that's just me

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Croustibat

I got a way better reason for all of these issues.

Most S13/14/15 folks dream of having the perfect car while not spending a $ on it. And they also have no clue about how engine works.

The car is cheap, so why would anyone throw 10 times the value of the car on quality parts and workmanship ?

I do my own tunes, and i dont use a dyno for that. But i log every usage of the car and analyze it afterwards to make little changes. It takes time, the kind of time a pro cant spend because it would cost way too much.

And we are back to square 1: poor people who believe they can get a fast car for a penny.

codyace

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

It sucks as a few us understand the point and purpose of a custom tune, but most do not.

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