SexPanda

Here you go guys. A place to discuss what you think 9.11.01 was really about.

No name calling

No put downs

Follow the rules of zilvia.

Kthnxbai.

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ALTRNTV

The 9/11 attacks were masterminded by Osama Bin Laden, leader of the Al Qaeda terrorist network.
No conspiracy. kthxbye

ThatGuy

No name calling? Fuck that!

IF YOU BELIEVE THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11, 2001 WERE THE ACTS OF THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT IN SOME KIND OF SECRET CONSPIRACY, THEN YOU'RE AN IDIOT.

Feel free to post whatever bullshit "YouTube" evidence you have though.

I have said all that needs to be said. I will not participate in any debates over this matter. It's not worth my time.

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fliprayzin240sx

Sweet...perfect time to talk about this so we can disrespect everybody who died that day and everybody else who died after we went to war. What the military death count right now? Oh yah, over 5,022 from what I've seen so far...

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SexPanda

I completely agree with you Barry. Some idiotic zealots didn't like what America stood for, so they decided to do one of the most cowardly things in the History of our nation.

This thread is here to keep the rif raf out of the other thread. I said no name calling because I don't want this thread to turn into a giant butthurt fest. Im not saying people who think it was our government arent complete fucktards...

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qwikspool

terrorist did it.

karl wasabi

Is this something like the Holocaust never happened?

I hear we never landed on the moon...

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JeremyR

i'm not a blind zealot and just believe everything i'm told. and trying to say its a disgrace to the fallen to question it is a cop out. its more of a disgrace to not properly investigate what happened. clean up started RIGHT AWAY on the site, which was a crime scene and needed to be investigated. coupled with the fact that jet fuel can not burn through the steel structure of a building, and that fire alone cannot bring it down. their are numerous buildings around the world that have survived plane crashes and monsterous fires. and those are documented in those "youtube" videos.

this is all i have to say on the matter. everyone is entitled to their own opinions. but balantly putting them down, or calling them idiots, or calling them unpatriotic is the wrong way to go about things.

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fliprayzin240sx

I dont have a problem with these kinds of thread, I was in the middle of it all, I seen and heard some stuff first hand that makes me go "eh?" to this very day. The problem I have is the timing...how is something like this gonna be discussed on one of the most solemn days we've ever had. 9/11 is our generation's Pearl Harbor...respect the day, respect those who died...

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SexPanda

Ok, so the temperature of burning jet fuel is less than that of melting steel.

The temperature of gas is less than that of melting steel too. But have you ever seen the metal frame of a building after a fire when an accelerant is used? The metal doesnt melt, no, but it becomes brittle enough to where I could take a relatively thick peice and bend it with my hands. Im no structural engineer, nor do I believe anyone on Zilvia is, but I can believe that such a large fire in an enclosed space can cause enough fatigue to the metal frame to cause a failure. I've seen it in arson in metal frame buildings (firefighter friends), so I don't doubt that it was the reason behind the WTC collapse.

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ranger240

whats your source for that gem on jet fuel??? you should watch more history channel brah, that source is a little more accredited than some pissed off and shunned academic outcast who's sick of not getting attention for his (self-perceived intellectual) capabilities through conventional veins, so they sit in their moms basement coming up with plausible causality.


for instance that stupid 9/11 conspiracy theory youtube vid that came out two years ago.. (the really popular one) had TONS of simple fact-errors that my untrained brain could pick up. granted im an exceptional genius (just like those conspiracy theorists in parents basements) BUT if any dumb-ass tries to pass along shit as fact and doesnt know that B-52s weren't even made when that b-24 hit the empire state building, then they are not worth ANY of your time.

in closing. conspiracy theorists are stupid and go off this not-so complex theoretical algorithm.

ready for it...

on any given day, in the world there are trillions of individual events occurring, most are unrelated but they all contribute in aggregate to what happened that day.

theorists take an action then apply their own rationality for it that corresponds with their theory. i could go through events that happened today and say that the coast guard mix up on the Potomac was in fact a terrorist attack. and guess what, the key to a conspiracy theorist is Lies.
lies are hard to be proven, i could amass a ton of media about that thing, then find out some convoluted causality, AND THEN i could use the LIE excuse whenever countered. i.e.
"The Government Is Lying, thats why my theory hardly makes any sense. its not my fault, they're liars, i'm not lying to gain notoriety and attention (athmmm Michael Moore), i'm telling the truth. How do i know? because i've been sitting alone and lonely in my moms basement making (up) this conspiracy theory."

in closing.. believe whatever the hell you want, but don't be stupid (unless you are stupid)

stupid people believe in stupid stuff all the time






goodnight conspiracy believers, you're all shit on by me. you all fail. go back to your moms basement.




EDIT: on a more serious note, this is hardly an appropriate day to be digging up this crap. lets mourn the dead, pray for their families and hope that such events do not occur in the future.

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S14_Kouki

Theres to many people that would have been involved to keep it a secret. Its not a conspiracy

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Jimmy Up

Ok, so to you guys who really believe it was a terrorist attack, what do we make of what happened at the pentagon?

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Teddy

Bush set it up to go to war in search for oil control, no fucking doubt about it.

And anyone who doesn't think this is either BLIND, IGNORANT, or chooses not to believe it.

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sidewaysil80

i try and avoid this conversation as much as possible but i will say this...i think alot of things don't add up and i think those things need to be questioned. for those of you who deem it unamerican to question 9/11, you have no right to even make that statement. people dont want it to be true that our country was behind 9/11 HELL i dont want to believe it. but everything that happened at the pentagon was the final straw. i dont necasserily(sp) believe that our country masterminded it...but i do believe their is alot they're not telling us and i would really really like to see the confiscated pentagon tapes...

JeremyR

its obvious you haven't seen that "youtube" video. which is called loose change 2nd editon btw, and didnt even start out as a youtube video. it explains the jet fuel "theory" and it also explains about what happened at the pentagon as well.

theory on the pentagon is explained in detail in this video: http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main

also, maybe you should watch more history channel, brah. they have specials on 9/11 all the time.

but they also have specials on the "prophet" nostradamus. but then, don't tell me you believe everything you see on television, do you?

oh, i also bet you believe everything the news and the medai and the government tells you as well. i mean, they can't lie! that would be dishonerable. right. like no ones ever lied before. everybody lies. EVERYBODY.

i'm not saying the loose change video is cold hard fact. but i'm saying it raises some interesting points.

not "oh, we got hit by terrorists plains trying to take down the american way a life"

than you get all the brainless racist bible belt super pro america right wingers (which make up the majority of the nation.) saying "godamn towel heads tryna hurt america fuck that lets nuke them fuckers" and other ignorant shit.

of course, we've all seen the "terrorists attack america but bruce willis/stallone/who the fuck ever come and save the day" movies. so of course a real life event like this, which all of us have already seen many times in the movies, would just be the easy cop out story.

america never lies, cheats, breaks the rules, and we sure as shit never interrogated people at guantnamo bay.


FDR had advanced knowledge of the pearl harbor attacks. thanks to the US cracking the japanese code in 1940. but he let the attack happen in order to sway the public opinion into joining ww2. we were already secretly sending the british supplys, and having an unfortunate incident happen would surely throw us straight into the war.

i'm not going to sit here and dig up all the sources. you have a computer, do it yourself. but of course, you're probably too lazy to do that. you'd rather just believe the easy answer and go on with your life. and thats fine.

the horrible loss of life has already happened. nothing can change that. i wish it could. and i used to believe it was a terrorist attack. untill i stumbled onto loose change, which raised my own questions and then did my own research into it. i don't go out trying to force my view point on anyone. this is america. and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. in fact i don't even think about it half the time.

ultimately, it boils down to money and power. like teddy said, its about oil. which intern equals money and power.

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turbo_dreams

So i live in ny, i'm muslim, and this thread sucks.

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Genovese.Jr

it was a terrorist attack the end.

JeremyR

you're exactly right, it was a terrorist attack.

dictionary.com:
ter⋅ror⋅ist
1.a person, usually a member of a group, who uses or advocates terrorism.
2.a person who terrorizes or frightens others.



bush lying about 911:


evidence that bush had advanced knowledge of 911:


rumsfeld slips that flight 93 was shot down:



you may be able to try and debunk the theorys, but not the words straight out of bush/rumsfeld mouth.


evidence of building 7 demolition:



missles attached to planes hit wtc:



i could go on for days with videos of evidence. but some people just can't fathom the idea that politicians would lie to us for their own benefits.


if you had the chance to get away with murder, and the outcome being millions, billions of dollars in your pocket due to the actions you took, would you do it?

some people would. not everyone, not the majority of people, but some people would kill for that.

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r6_240sx

Haven't you guys watched the South Park episode, Mystery of the Urinal Deuce?!

The government started up the rumor that they caused 9/11 even though they didn't so people would think they are all powerful and continue to fear them, jeez.

http://player.longtailvideo.com/play...ow_pause=false

SimpleS14

wow...I can't believe this thread was started on that date. I have my own thoughts and feelings, but at least show some respect...

Anyways, I feel there is an entity or group of people outside the norm (aka "you would usually expect") that were involved with this. We will never know the names and afflications that took part with this.

Infact, we may never even see the declassified files related to this....

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S14_Kouki

idk what to think anymore theres alot of good info on both sides

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SexPanda

I'd like to apologize for creating this thread on such a sobering day... But I mearly meant to keep the bullshit out of the real thread.

I believe people that hated what America stood for perpetrated 9/11. Take that as you will, alot of stuff doesnt add up, but I still find it hard to believe that the US Government would do it. Impossible? No. Highly unlikely? IMO, yes.

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Sleepy240

You believe what you want to believe. Everybody is out to sway peoples opinion (even if you don't admit it). The way I look at it is if the government was somehow behind this I severely doubt they would have DEMOLISHED the towers. All they would have needed was the "terrorist" attacks to be able to declare war and get all of this "billions" of dollars that I have not seen. Only people who theorize that the government is behind this seem to bring money into the equation, when I don't care how greedy and/or stupid you are, there is NO WAY that killing thousands of innocent civilians would be worth any amount of money. Also by assuming the government was "behind" this whole operation they must have been working with these terrorist groups then? How else would you explain the phone calls from the people ON flight 93? Obviously they taped loved ones voices and then played them using a computer to call their families? Or maybe they were in on it too? Did they all move to some super secret island in the tropics with all the billions of dollars they got for pulling off the biggest trick ever? I mean seriously get the fuck out. My problem with everyone of the conspiracy theories is that to be honest, I think even you have to admit, there is no cut and dry evidence either way. I whole heartedly believe that actual TERRORISTS targeted the WTC, the Pentagon, and ultimately flight 93 that ended in the field not far from my freaking house.

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S14_Kouki

^ you make a very valid point^

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duffman1278

I still just find it hard to believe that the entire structure could have collapsed, it just doesn't seem to make sense when you look at studies of metal and how it reacts to high temperatures or even to get to those temperatures.

Another thing is, iirc the U.S. government has made money off every war we've ever been in except this one and I believe one other. And why go after Saddam, it should be Osama?

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ALTRNTV

Does the Afghanistan War ring a bell?

duffman1278

I know I know but just feels like its steered away from the main conflict.

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BustedS13

Loose Change is a bullshit movie full of lies and fabrication.
You are fucking retarded.
The More You Know™

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JeremyR

its easy to talk shit when you bring nothing to the table.
and it's fucking pathetic to put me down, when i havent put down a single person on here. everyones entitled to their own opinion. thats what america is about.

blindly following everything and not questioning things is the easy way out.

it would be nice if we had hoenst politcians, but we dont.

you dont see the money, the guy who bought insurance protecting the WTC from terrorists attacks see's the money. bush see's the money for his oil business he runs. of course you dont see the money.

and of course killing thousands of innocent civilians is worth money. you telling me war isnt a good reason for money? and even if the government is behind it. that doesnt mean they had to be working with terrorist. it could of been a completely independent act. someone has to take the fall. so of course, pin it on extremist in the middle east, typecast a whole race of people. hell, even IF they worked with terrorist, so what? wouldnt be the first time. osama received cia training in the 80s. and after the 911 attacks, his family was flown out of the US by the government.


im threw arguing in this thread. i dont give a shit what you believe. but dont dismiss MY point of view, when you have done no reasearch into it yourself. most of you should spend less time on zilvia, and more time educating yourself and doing research. lots of people profited ($$$) from the 911 tragedy. which is fucking disgusting. but their are truly evil people in the world. i consider hitler an evil person, and look who he brainwashed. their were people who disagreed with what he did, and then, their were people who bought every fucking word he said and did what he wanted them to do.

so why is it so hard to comprehend, that that couldnt possibly happen somewhere else?
powerful political figures using the media to sway public opinion. it happened in germany and austria, why not in america? oh wait. it already does.

like i said. i've done enough reasearch into the matter, maybe some of you should as well.

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