0kami

killed it.

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Xren17

Just wanted to chime in about this topic. Auto SUCKS! That's my opinion, I don't need research to prove that it sucks. It's like undressing a girl and finding that it's a guy. That's the way I feel when I walk up to a mean ass looking 240 and see that's it's an automatic. There's just something missing. I'm sure an automatic does great with a capable driver but what I really care about is the feeling that a manual gives you. It's like the argument between the Sti and Evo, which is better? No one knows, because it comes down to what the car impart to the driver. I just don't think an automatic impart much beyond putting me to sleep.

old_s13

flybert> Back this statement up. I know you know this already but the point of heel and toeing is to downshift into the proper gear smoothely and quickly for the turn. Sure you can just down shift into second quickly with an auto but it's really jerky. Do you like jerky auto downshifts? The question is why wouldn't you want to heel and toe?

Rev matching = 5-speeds, not an option for automatics.
Heel/toe = Rev matching PLUS braking, again.. not an option for automatics.

Think about it, you CANT control the revs with the auto, its POINTLESS to touch the gas while downshifting because it does NOTHING. I've had my auto for over 7 years and knew what I was doing, I slid the car and did more than most would imagine capable. Not saying I am the bomb, just saying I have enough experience with an automatic 240SX to know what I am talking about.


initial s14> the FEINT technique applies on automatic cars to drift...

Yeah yeah, thanks a lot Kei Tsuchiya .. we know that. That technique can be used on anything from a shopping kart to a FWD Civic.. its just using momentum and weight shift. But thats not the point. You guys are talking about drifting stock low powered S13's with open diff -- come on now. You need more power and the car has to be build a little more aggressively if you SERIOUSLY want to control your auto. Its like saying a stock S13 is a perfect race-car, its not.. there are still various items that need to be overlooked before you bring out the true-sportiness of our RWD cars. Of course, the better drivers can perform tricks with little to no mods, but thats besides the point.. because some mods make things MUCH easier and more stable to control -- like stiff suspension.


nocomedown> Correct me if I'm wrong (I admit I'm no expert on the subject), but wouldn't it be much easier to just use left foot braking instead of heel-toe in an automatic?

More or less, thats how it works.. you use LFB (left foot braking) but, whats the use? When I would downshift, I would do it simultaneously while braking -- so there is NO reason to brake really. Besides, as long as you leave that resistor plugged in the S13 does a wonderful job of keeping the shift smooth. This is why I think anyone with an auto who unplugs that resistor is a fucking IDIOT -- its pointless and the car performs like ass.


zero.counter> Dude, you seriously need to get laid more often or if you are an ugly vato, use your hands. Take a chill pill and stop being a hardass on a board which most likely shows your weakness and that you are infact the opposite in real life. Yes, I said real life, not just going to drift events or playing with custom L.E.D.s on cars to look pretty and such, but again...go get a girl and make a family. Do something with your life instead of pushing yourself off as an internet bully of sorts. You don't intimidate me, in fact, my psych rotation in school gives me insights into determining the type of person you really are. Psycho-analyzation is fun, especially when certain cases are obvious, as is yours....Mike.

Hey Zero, count my nuts biaaaaatch. Come on man, did you seriously put effort in writing this? Were you serious?! I mean, you have no clue who I am.. and you are talking shit? I've fucking crapped out turds like you in my sleep, dont make me rip you a new one online because it wont take more than a few seconds. Psycho-analyze.. go ahead oh wise one, we'll see how far you can get into the mind of someone who's clinically INSANE before you give up. Yes, yes.. I play with custom L.E.Deez nuts.

Fuck, someone tell me you arent going to be giving people psychological advice and treatment.. just goes to show what happens to people when they go to school too long, they get full of themselves while driving domestic automatics.

- Mike

BTW, if you notice, I don't post here for help...ever. I don't know everything, before that lame argument comes out, I just work on cars and don't see any need to flaunt anything I know like others here. I post in defense of others, when the "big dogs" of boards come arounds throwing their weight, acting like they are gods gifts to cars. Some people (besides myself) need to learn humility and humbleness.

Yes, hence the reason you should continue to shut the fuck up and not waste our time by posting senseless bullshit. Drive an auto 240SX for 7 years THEN talk. In the meantime, please.. pretty please.. shut the fuck up.

DoriftoSlut

Mike, you shit turds in your sleep? Fuck dude, bed must get messy!




HAHAHAHA. Other than reading about you soiling your sheets, that was a bomb-diggity reply!! Oh, btw, how 'bout them coupe Tailights? Eh? Eh? I want some Red/Pink ones (I can dye the clear parts pink by myself though). And none of this LED crap. That cost more money than my life is worth!!

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DoriftoSlut

Oh yeha, a great wise man once said:

Driving an automatic [240sx] is like masturbating in a whore house... why would you?

The [240sx] is added cause the very original statement was "...auto SR20DET..." which then he changed to include ALL 240's.

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old_s13

Zilvia is the greatest non-tech yet, shit-talking forum....

EVAR.

SXual240

There is no use in even continuing on this subject because those that have not driven an AT SR20'd 240 won't even give it a chance.. so all i'm gonna say is get over yourselves and have a more open minded.. *note* that wasn't meant toward any specific person..

__________________
When i die.. i wanna die peacefully like my grandmother.. not like the rest of the passengers in her car..

Nitrous is like a woman with an STD.. you wanna hit it.. but you're afraid of the consequences..

DoriftoSlut

I would drive an auto SR20DET.












































Right into the fucking dumpster.

And anyone talking about don't knock till you own one... thats bullshit. I can absolutely positively conclude that I would hate the fucking car (as i do any automatic car). Why? Cause i can fucking drive and i dont want some damn computer shifting for me. I suppose if you have no driving skill but think going fast is cool (note: driving skill =/= just going fast) then an Auto SR will allow you to fall asleep and still boost your way into the triple digits.

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SXual240

Big words.. >roll eyes< ..as i said before.. don't knock it till you've tried it.. i guarantee my AT would rip your MT a new one.. but that prolly doesn't matter tothe 'drifter'.. anyways.. like i said.. it's pointless to continue this convo because i'm not gonna change your mind and you're not gonna change mine.. so it's like an endless circle.. both have their good points.. and most defnitely both have their bad.. it's just the 'fever for the flavor' so to speak.. i have a MT as well.. but i love my AT just for the simple fact of stop and go.. stop and go.. shift.. downshift.. blah blah.. it gets kind of old.. that's my choice.. maybe you like that i dunno.. but either way.. they're both good and bad.. and it's in an awesome car as i'm sure you would agree with that.. so let's just leave it at that..

__________________
When i die.. i wanna die peacefully like my grandmother.. not like the rest of the passengers in her car..

Nitrous is like a woman with an STD.. you wanna hit it.. but you're afraid of the consequences..

Dousan_PG

oh christ
the usual 'stop and go traffic is so hard with a MT' complaint
pansy.

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Pink GodziRa
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SXual240

Pansy? LOL.. Ok man.. you dont even know me.. not very cool to be spouting off insults.. anyways.. grow up..

__________________
When i die.. i wanna die peacefully like my grandmother.. not like the rest of the passengers in her car..

Nitrous is like a woman with an STD.. you wanna hit it.. but you're afraid of the consequences..

old_s13

AT cars with high-stall torque converters will hate traffic.. because their gas mileage will suck ass.

MT cars with unsprung clutches REALLY hate traffic because 1mm of clutch play before massive engagement SUCKS.

It just depends on who you are and what type of driving you do. The only reason I am speaking on this subject is because I've messed up OH TOO MANY 5-speed drivers with my old auto setup, so I think its foolish for people to speak without actually knowing.

I think auto is wack, but I also think it isnt the end of the world and I definately wouldnt be stupid by looking DOWN on someone for having an auto. 7 years went by and I hate ALL the 5-speed parts in my garage including transmission, it just wasnt a necessity until the auto started to slip..

just like my KA.. lasted 7-8 years before I blew it up, then I went SR. Too many people are hung over their cars like they are hung over my nuts. They think a car is their status symbol in life. We all know my penis, is the biggest status symbol here.

- Mike

SXual240

LoL.. Preach on brother.. i wasn't trying to start anything with anyone.. just i DO get looked down on because of my AT.. then when they look under the hood they are like 'DAMN bro' everything totally changes.. but i don't talk smack about MT's so why talk about AT's? I just think it's pointless and immature.. that's it.

__________________
When i die.. i wanna die peacefully like my grandmother.. not like the rest of the passengers in her car..

Nitrous is like a woman with an STD.. you wanna hit it.. but you're afraid of the consequences..

nokeone

the only reason people talk smack is because it's fun.....if you seriously were to take a count of the posts on this board and their respective relevance to a subject i bet you would find that like 85% were simply shit talking...

just the way it is..

i hate Autos for sports cars or any type of aggressive driving...they just do not perform as well...you can't argue that fact..sorry..stock for stock and equal mod for equal mod given identicle drivers the manual is the better performer...

but, i would love to have one in my everyday driver...when i pick up my tacoma sr5 v6 4wd trd...it WILL be an auto...just so much simpler on an everyday around town basis...no fuss, no thinking, just chill...

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Advan

Besides the heel/toe drifting, you can always do the E-brake drift. heh.

nokeone

heel/toe drifting?..what's that?

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DoriftoSlut

Shoot yourself in the face.

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Flybert

Old S13: Lemme tell you that rev matching is very possible in an auto. I don't know about a 240 auto but it works in other japanese autos. This is what you do. Let's just say you are in 3rd and you are approaching the turn. Brake, push the shifter into neutral, heel and toe, and throw it into second. Simple as that. I actually feel that it's a good technique to learn if you want to make your automatic driving experience much better. In an auto 240, can't you put it into neutral when braking? Can't you shift into second when braking? I think it's possible but I've never driven an automatic 240 so I could be wrong. And don't tell me that it would be slow or something like that. I could do it pretty damn fast and it helped get that car into 2nd smoothely when approaching a turn.

old_s13

Flybert> Lemme tell you that rev matching is very possible in an auto.

please....

dont be stupid. you DONT rev match an auto.

Flybert

Why is it that it is a smoothe downshift? I don't really know how automatic trannies work so maybe my technichal terms are completely off, but it does seem like I'm matching flywheel speed to some kind of pressure plate (i don't know what it's called in an auto). Do autos even have flywheels?

We have to get together so I can show you what I'm talking about? Are you going to the shine st. meet? I am really curious as to why I'm wrong. I really respect all the info you put on here so I don't want to be writing misinformation.

hiryu

You need this http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automa...ansmission.htm

Flybert

Funny thing you should mention that because I'm there right now.

old_s13

Dude, I am going to yell at you if I see you at the Shine Street meet.

With automatics, the flywheel is only used for starting the car.. it doesnt ever need to be resurfaced because there is no clutch or pressure plate. The auto flywheel on the 240SX is very light, like a few pounds.

The way it shifts is all computer/hydrolically controlled. There is no need to rev-match because auto transmissions are not "insta-shift" -- it takes time for the ECU to register the downshift and for the hydrolics to activate the shift change. If you are doing 90mph and throw it in 2nd an automatic will not shift -- a manual will (hence the reason my KA died a glorious death after 170,000 miles.. accidental mis-shift).

So, why rev match an auto? By the time you slide that shifter into neutral, revmatch, and go back into gear.. your rpms will be ALL fucked up.. as in WRONG -- because there is NO POINT, dont you get it? Do you need me to give you a ride?

Now, as a GOOD auto driver what you will learn how to do, is know the gears (just like a manual). You will be in 4th (od on) and know at what speed you can shift into 2nd without having any issues. You will know the max speed of each gear (1,2,3,4) so that you dont accidentally go into the wrong gear. Trust me, doing 30mph and downshifting from 3 to 1 on ACCIDENT is not fun, all of a sudden your RPMS fly up and instead of being in second you are in 1st. You will also learn to use the gears to your advantage.. for instance, you dont downshift to accellerate with the shifter -- you simply mash the throttle for anytime you want accelleration. However, you can downshift to break the back (if you want to), this is why you go into 1st or 2nd when you want to overpower the rear and make it slide. Normally, you downshift while breaking -- same way you downshift a manual while braking, to help take the load off of the brakes a bit.. put a bit of stress on the motor/transmission.

Its an auto, its not AMAZING.. its a stupid lever that you slide. You cannot feel what gear position you are in like a manual, you have to look down to know exactly what gear you are in. Of course, after many years you get a feel.. but its still never 100% fool proof.. I would still occasionally mis-shift the auto.

If your rev-match theory was so useful, people would be rev-matching their Ferrari's with paddle shifters -- they dont because its useless. Sorry to pee on you, but every once and a while I feel like R Kelly.

- Mike

Flybert

In my car, you could never mess up with downshifting because it was 2 D3 D4 N R so downshifting into second could be done all the way up to 55mph because of the long gearing. Could never end up in first because there was no option.

OK, I understand that there is no point to heel and toe seeing as you should be relatively facing straight when down shifting so as to prevent oversteer but in my anticipation of driving a manual before I could afford buying another car, I learned to do it on my automatic. When I proceeded to buy my S13, heel and toeing was easy to do and because of this I thought that it was a good thing that I learned how to do it before I got my standard.

I still feel that you can rev match the torque converter or something in there despite all of the stuff you have told me while heel and toeing. I know for a fact that you can do it on my other car and I will refuse to believe you otherwise unless you explain it to me in terms of the mechanics of the torque converter of a 97 civic automatic (my other car.)

ryan hagen

zero.counter......"Really, what do you want to know. Here, email me at [email protected] and give me a detailed list of things you want so I can "back up" my comments. I will also need to be compensated for my "assigned tasks" as it will require use of my time to show some guy on the internet that he is wrong before he damages my reputation by calling B.S. (obvious sarcasm)
If you can do so, I can accomodate, otherwise shooo away."

why would any one want to pay u to do any kind of research on this, either way u need to put out money to make either tranney perfect, perfect is our opinion, every one is arrugeing their opinion, U would only find info to back your opinion, and it my opinion in the end i like my manaul and i dont like auto.....doesnt take science or research, it seems about 50% agree, the other 50% dont......no one is gonna pay u anything for this cause no one really cares enough, this is one of those argue to the death threads that will never be won or lost........"otherwise shooo away."

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old_s13

Its not about liking it or not liking it, personally I think auto's are poop.. but I can atleast appreciate a GOOD automatic.. like the one on the S13, or even better.. the newer automatics which are advertised as sport automatics like the new Z33 transmission -- it has 5 speeds and performs really nicely. As for the driver, shit we all have our preferences. Are you going to deny a Ferrari F60 because its ONLY available with paddle shifters? Essentially, the concept of paddle-style transmissions are somewhat similar to that of automatics.. as there is no clutch, so what's the difference (besides one being extremely race durable and the other being more civilized).

as for you flybert, dont post. Thats all I ask.. please dont post anymore. If I see you at the Shine Street meet, I am going to murder you, cut you with a knife (tm benson), or maybe I'll just choke you..

okay im being sarcastic.. but this thread needs to be closed, lets just stop the discussion before that asshole zero.penis comes back.

Flybert

Agreed, this thing does need to end. Look forward to meeting you at the meet. I'll bring my knife too and we could go at it Michael Jackson "Bad" style.

transient

Zero, what is your deal? You come on and tell people that you and all your supra friends will school them on autos, I call you on it, and now you say you want to be PAID for research??? Why do you bother entering into a conversation if you don't have anything good to say?

Btw, I don't see any reason for the thread to be closed, there really hasn't been anything bad in it, and information is still flowing (if only at a dribble). If the people on the board need a moderator to come here and close a thread to keep them from acting childish, maybe they should find another board to hang out on.

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Learn everything you can, while you still have the chance.

ryan hagen

if i remeber right the ka automatic "flywheel" is a triangle shaped thing, i think its called a flex plate? thats what its called in other autos, sometimes it weights alot sometimes it doesnt, but i dont see how you could rev match with torque converter.

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Advan

I meant the drifting technique. I didn't know that I had to be specific about this.
DoriftoSlut:....yes, please shutup now.