kingkilburn

Has Carlos Ghosn overstaid as the CEO of Nissan-Renault? It seems to me that as time goes on Nissan has grown to have the same reputation that is generally reserved for French autos. You see the products and are often left scratching your head. Boring weird cars, missing the mark on tried and true markets(sports coupes and hot hatches) while pushing weird niche markets(Juke and convertible Murano), and just a general wtf on the overall line up.


He did great digging Nissan out of the depths of its collapse after over extending in the 90s but I think it is time for Nissan as a whole to move in a different direction and not the direction of being the new boring Toyota.


What do you guys think?


EDIT
Totally meant to put a "?" in the title.

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zerodameaon

You know my sentiments, it is time for him to go.

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simmode1

What reputation? Everytime Consumer Reports releases it's findings about least/most favorite auto brands, least/most reliable brands or most recognizable brands... Nissan is NEVER on the list. Neither in the top or bottom 10. It's like the brand is in such a mediocre spot that consumers don't even realize it exists to even put it on a list.

exitspeed

Yeah, but they make money and have grown to be one of the largest brands in the world.

Does he need to go IMO? I'm just not sure. Remember he isn't designing the cars. I think if anything they need to look internally at their design teams. I mean look what Kia and Hyundai have been able to do in just 5 years or so. They need a Peter Schreyer s a design head if anything. Not get rid of the CEO all together.

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fyneyoungstunna

they need to revamp ALL of Nissan.
Then new skyline is the size of an SUV
The new Z is rumored to be a fwd sedan (what the fucking shit)
The Altima is becoming the most sold model
and Datsun is back but only for eco cars over seas?

yeah, punch some dicks and get shit back on track. Nissan is getting so mundane and "grocery getter". There are SOOOO many cars in their lineup that could be revamped. Think of a 510 rwd eco model....thats not ballooned up and bloated. Or, a revamp of the old s130 and s30's as a new sports model. Even bringing the gtir over in awd turbo (and non) would be a smart move.
But the crown jewel for me would be bringing back a diesel motor in a rwd whatever. Most likely to please me it would have to be in a revamp of the 510. I mean fuck. Mini/Bmw, Audi, and even Porsche (911) are slating for turbo diesel engines via VolksWagen.

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kingkilburn

All valid points that all lead me to think that there is a leadership issue. They think there isn't a demand for a small rwd sports coupe or a V8 in a gt car but they want to push a convertible Murano. They don't seem to have a plan or a direction, they are just meandering through the auto world.

As far as their market share I've been seeing numbers like 1 in 10 new cars is made by Nissan-Renault. That is down right prolific. Now how do you have so many cars on the road that give people a feeling of meh?

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simmode1

That's what I been trying to figure out. But I guess it's a safe place to be. they aren't taking any big risks, so no one is really talking about them except enthusiasts (who sit outside of nor consumer consciousness). They are straddling the line and balancing blah cars with their sports line up but haven't effectively promoted the type of corporate/brand identity that masses will remember.

They just play it safe, fly under the radar and get by on the strength of their volume sellers. Not a bad strategy. But some of us enthusiasts wanted to see them take a risk and beat everybody back to the market with am inexpensive 2+2 RWD coupe. But from a business perspective, it makes perfect sense to let Hyundai and Toyota go first out of the gate, watch their mistakes and successes, then develop a safe response to consumer demand.

Minimizing risk and loss. I can't get mad at it, really. It's what I'd do.

kingkilburn

So Nissan of today is the new Toyota of the last 15 years?

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mechanicalmoron

Sort of.

The difference is that if modern nissan disappeared, there would be no real change, except that the roads would be prettier. People love their toyotas. Even accross markets in surprising ways. I'd betcha corolla owners love their cars a lot more than altima owners, for instance.

I would miss toyota if they disappeared. They make practical cars that look fine. There's something less soccer-mom-ish about recent and modern toyota, than modern nissan.

zerodameaon

So here is what Nissan is missing out on, if the new Mustang gets IRS then it will kind of be what the S16 should have been, RWD IRS 4cyl Turbo at a decent price.

Toyota pretty? The FRS/86 is ugly as sin, worse then even the 370z.

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exitspeed

I assume you mean the GTR. G37's/Skyline's aren't big.

I have literally never heard one single source claim that.



Anyway...

I know I'm not int eh sam situation as most of the people o here anymore, but Nissan makes great vehicles for people like me. Look, I'm not a 21 year old kid anymore. I have 2 kids and another on the way. My Murano is just too small and will not or barely fit a third car seat so I'm looking at 7 seaters. The Pathfinder is bar far the best bang for your buck out there and it looks good (IMO). No it's not a tough ad rugged body on frame SUV, but fuck that I don't need that shit and I live in the Frozen Tundra of WI. Nissan' tech is still cutting edge. The Around the Vehicle Monitor is many media outlets favorite tech on the market right now.

Sure I'm bummed that Nissan continues to ignore the enthusiast but they just don't care. Think about it in their shoes. Would Ghosn build a car that appeals to my love of the 240 that I may (it's a pretty strong may though) or may not buy for $25k, or ake a great CUV that I am GOING to by for $40?

Nissan i in the business of selling cars. We need to get over it.

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kingkilburn

You guys that happen to not be in the market for a coupe need to stop acting like no one ever buys smaller cars. Compacts are the bread and butter of nontruck auto manufacturers. A small rwd coupe doesn't have to be a niche thing just like fwd compacts didn't have to be in the late 70s and early 80s.

Do you really think Toyota and Subaru would have made the FRS/BRZ if they thought they couldn't move them and turn a profit? Hell no they wouldn't.

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kingkilburn

There is a whole generation of people out there looking for their 240Z/240SX.

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word sux

most auto makers don't give a shit about niche markets. Most of the people bitching about nissan bringing back the silvia couldn't afford one even if they did so why should they bother? From a strictly business Ghosn has done a fantastic job with nissan. Ghosn's revival of nissan is considered one of the greatest corporate turnarounds in history.

Matej

Getting worked up over new cars is a fruitless waste of time.
Automakers will make whatever they want, and it will either sell or it will not.

drift freaq

So if you love Toyota so much what are you doing on a NIssan forum?

Oh ya you love 240sx's right? Just asking.

Dare I say it King does have some valid points after his initial post. While I don't agree that Ghosn is the problem at Nissan. If there is actually a problem. Fact is like others have already stated Ghosns turn around of Nissan was incredible.
Fact is though some of us may think Nissan has ignored the enthusiasts under Ghosns tenure fact is he was responsible for bringing the GTR here. While you may not like it there are a lot of GTR enthusiasts that were and are quite happy about that.
He also managed to resurrect the Z car with the 350 which actually again made the Z enthusiasts happy as they sold quite well.
Sure one could call the 370 a miscue its almost there but not quite. Though its not as bad as some would have us believe.
One could say they have produced some damn fugly cars in the last few years. Yet they manage to sell a shit ton.
Consumer reports? Fuck consumer reports. They ripped the new Q50 a new asshole and the car is pretty damn dope for its product segment. Sebastian Vettel had a hand in the road test engineering of it. Though consumer reports painted it out like a pile of shit . I don't always trust consumer reports, I think they have an agenda to tow.
I would take a JD powers rating over consumer reports any day because JD powers actually polls owners , shops and what not.
I honestly think in light of recent developments its a little early to call crap on Nissan's supposed efforts.
Give it a little more time before calling for the head of the man that actually saved Nissan from all out extinction.

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kingkilburn

I love the stereotyping here. Because the nay sayers are broke bitches not in the market for a new car no one can be.

This thread wasn't even supposed to be about a new coupe but whatever. This place has severe tunnel vision.

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mechanicalmoron

My being here is pretty irellivent to nissan, they've had the money for my car for over 20 years.

And regardless, I'm NOT about to buy a new anything. So what I own is irellivent to this whole thing.

I do like 90's toyotas, too. I think most cars after the turn of this century got really ugly, but toyota beats nissan. I think most 90's japanese cars where really nicely designed, nicely build, and generally spot on what they should be.

I'm just making an observation about how people approach nissans nowadays. I'd admit it doesn't apply to the Z or GTR, but those are cars to be shown off, regardless of sales. Like sure, there's enthusiasts who are excited about a 100k car.... but most of them are sure as hell not buying one. The GTR means nothing to me because it's so distant, price-wise, that I doubt I'll ever even sit in one. Even if I had the money it's beyond frivolous.

kingkilburn

That is what a halo car is. You see the full potential of a brand in performance and styling. Even if you wont ever be able to afford it it lends to conclusions about the people making it.

The fact that Nissan can put out a car that out performs cars that cost twice as much while still being a comfortable car to drive/own AND it turns a profit says a ton about what they can do. Toyota tried their hand at it and although it is an amazing car they can't even make their money back on it.


If Nissan can squeeze that performance out of that car imagine what they could do if they didn't have to compete with Renault for motorsports space. An awd turbo Sentra designed from the ground up to be a rally monster. A fullsize sedan that could go toe to toe with anything in DTM. A Z car that absolutely ROCKS the mid price sport coupe category.

And perhaps even an entry level coupe that isn't a bad of blah and compromise that still turns a profit.

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drift freaq

Again excellent points, I myself have wondered if Nissan might have more of a presence in F1 if it were not for Renault. Fact is it was great to see the amount of presence their engines pulled off at last years Le Mans as well as the Delta wing car even though it was weird. It was also cool when they were supplying engines for Indycar though they are no longer doing that.

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kingkilburn

Considering that the VH was designed specifically for formula style racing and they spent all that money on the R390 I'd say Nissan has at least a passing interest in serious racing.

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Matej

Supposedly they dumped an equivalent of 20+ million dollars just into the development of the BTCC SR engines, which is about as 'niche' of a racing series as it gets.

drift freaq

Nissan indeed always had a pretty good interest in motorsports competition. Though I think Nissan NA kinda fell out of the factory backed stuff starting in the early 90's. Outside of the SCORE off road trucks they really did not support factory backed sports car efforts after that. I think if they do bring out new cars it would be quite wise for them to get them into motorsports with factory backed efforts. It did wonders for the company here in the 70's and 80's.

Outside of the U.S. has always seemed to be a different story. BTCC, GT racing etc... It seems Nissan Japan and Nissan UK are much more in touch with the fact that Motorsports is still important.
In fact I could go as far as making this observation relating to your original post. The problem does not lie in Ghosn the problem does and always has been with Nissan NA since the early 90's. The stateside branch of the company has grown quite timid in this department and thereby pushing a non sports car agenda.
A lot of the design cues ridiculed actually came out of the San Diego based design department.
Perhaps we will see a much more relevant to Z car heritage Z car design because its supposedly coming from Japan this time. As far as the IDX goes I am not sure if that was Japan or San Diego.

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redline racer510

Couldn't have said it better myself .

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exitspeed

You know how much I want them to build cars for us. I just GET what Ghosn isn't all over it. That's all I'm saying.

And like I said if they do make the car we've all been asking for I'd really like to get one. I'm finally at a place where I can afford things like this.

The fact of the matter is the people who "love" 240's right now are still a far younger demographic. Again Nissan/Ghosn would rather concentrate on selling a shitload of $40k vehicles that they are going to sell a shit ton of then a $25k vehicle that they won't sell many just to help their image.

As much as I hate that, it's the reality.

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SimpleS14

I have no issues with Ghosn. He's doing what he can right now to keep both companies afloat. I'd like to see them be more competitive in the market, but I just don't see them taking the additional risks.

He's not designing them, but I'm sure he does provide some approval on key products. Especially if he's on the stage having the present the product.

This is the first time I'm hearing this. Where did this rumor originate from?

For now they are saving that for Infiniti through the partnership with Mercedes.

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fyneyoungstunna

For people asking me about the "Z" comment:
I first read it on here in a thread.
But look up nissan "mini-z" concept

@simples14: I would not be mad at nissan infiniti for going to Mercedes for a diesel. I would however be mad if they marketed it as infiniti. That just has underpowered junk written all over it. Ok, or heavy gt sedan ...wich could be admittedly fun.

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kingkilburn

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simmode1

This. This right here.

This is way Nissan needs the IDX and not any of those S16 concepts that have been flying around for the past 7 years.

kingkilburn

And nothing says Japanese car more than entry-mid level rwd sports coupes and teeny tiny FWD sporty hatches.

Nissan need a spriritual Sentra SE-R and 240Z/S-Chassis revival.

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