AceOfHz

Hey everyone. I've tried searching and looked around multiple forums and videos and have yet to find or try anything that has solved my issue so I figured I'd finally make a thread.

I bought my '90 240sx KA24E MT back in October and it had been sitting in a Kentucky yard for about 7 years. It's no surprise I couldn't get it to start when I first got it but I've been tweaking and replacing things for a few months now with no solution.

At the moment, it cranks, sometimes fires once, and then just continues cranking. Never once has it acted like it wanted to get up and start.

So far I've replaced spark plugs, spark plug wires, injectors (they were ruined by old gas/age and wouldn't spray), distributor/cap/rotor, ignition switch, starter relay (blue box by battery), battery. I also drained all old gas and put about 6 gallons of new gas in.

I've checked the compression of the engine, all cylinders read 180 except 4th which is about 170. I get spark, the injectors all spray. I checked timing by checking distributor rotor is pointing at #1 spark plug wire terminal when 1st piston is at TDC. I tried starting it without the MAF plugged in. My ECU lights work when the key is turned. I've also cleaned all grounds in the engine bay. My fuel pump primes every time as well.

I'm by no means a professional mechanic but I tend to do most simple jobs on my cars myself, and getting this to start has absolutely stumped me. Any advice or recommendations are greatly appreciated. Feel free to ask any questions or for clarification. Thanks!

thegr8one013

Make sure you have the correct fitting order and the distributor isn't 180 degrees off. If both of those things are fine and you're sure everything else you checked correctly I would check the crank to cam timing

AceOfHz

I've checked firing order before, will check again. Can the distributor for a KA24e be put in wrong? It seems like it really only goes in one way. I'll check cam timing one of these next few days as well.

AceOfHz

Checked to make sure cam, crank, and distributor are all in sync and in the right place. Crank is at 0 degrees, key notch for cam is at 12 oclock, cam gear dimple is at 3, and distributor rotor points at #1 spark plug wire. This is correct timing if I read right.

Removed fuel rail again and checked to see each injector was firing, all fired.

Still getting spark from all 4 wires.

Still cranking and not starting...

Is there some sort of sensor that can go bad and cause it to not start? Some sort of ignition thing on the car that could cause this? Not enough fuel coming from fuel pump? I'm totally out of ideas.

1on1

If you're getting spark and gas into the cylinders, then it seems the issue is timing or firing order. I've had a buddy who had this same issue where there was no spark. We found out there's a small box with a resistor that burnt up somehow (located on the ignition coil harness). He swapped it and his car started up with no problem.

In addition, if the car was running prior to sitting for 7 years, you may want to change out the fuel filter that may be clogged and possibly clean out the maf. Also, double check the firing order by following the diagram below:

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AceOfHz

Thanks for the reply!

Oops, forgot to say I did indeed change the fuel filter in the engine bay. I've also sprayed out the MAF with the sensor spray.

I have the exact set up as shown in the diagram you posted as well.

I'm not sure I know what you're talking about with the box though. Happen to have a link or another picture?

1on1

Yea, it's the harness below that has a white marking on it. If it's not exposed, it must be covered in tape or something:



Edit: If possible, remove the intake piping off the intake manifold, spray starting fluid it in and see if it'll run. If it does, then you're good. To confirm, you have spark from the spark plugs when attached?

Caution: If you've been cranking your engine with fuel, make sure to pull off the oil cap and smell to see if there's gas. If so, drain and fill with fresh oil.

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AceOfHz

I have tried starting fluid to no avail. Yes, when I put spark plugs on the ends of my spark plug wires, and hold them to something like a bolt on the strut tower, each one will arc to the bolt when the key is turned.

On your caution, It does smell a bit like gas. Should I drain and replace ASAP or is it not too bad to wait until I finally get it started for a few seconds and then do it?

On your picture, I have located that box on my 240. Any idea where I could get a replacement or what to type in to search for one?

mechanicalmoron

If you have spark, and you have compression, and starting fluid won't make it run, it's wildly out of time.

Or there's some more basic problem, like wires in the wrong places, or not properly seated on the cap or plug, or something like that.

AceOfHz

My timing situation is explained in post #4 - Checked to make sure cam, crank, and distributor are all in sync and in the right place. Crank is at 0 degrees, key notch for cam is at 12 oclock, cam gear dimple is at 3, and distributor rotor points at #1 spark plug wire. This is correct timing if I read right. If it is incorrect or if there is something else I need to check, let me know.

I also just checked all spark plug wires to make sure they're all firmly seated. Cap and rotor are firmly screwed into distributor.

1on1

Honestly, all you need is spark, gas and air to create combustion. Have you tried moving the distributor while you're cranking the engine to see if it would try to run?

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AceOfHz

Indeed I have. I've had someone try the full arc, slowly back and forth while I was cranking and nothing seemed to change.

dallaschristman

Have you checked the oil pump? Maybe its off a tooth or something

AceOfHz

I haven't taken all that apart to check just yet. I'm thinking my next step is to find a fuel pressure tester and test that, then if that's fine I'll tear apart the front of the engine and check the oil pump/distributor timing. If my cam/crank/distributior timing is fine, can the oil pump still be off?

dallaschristman

You could always just pop the injectors out and see how they're spraying when someone cranks it.

I believe the oil pump can be out if everything is in time. I thought I read somewhere that could happen. A KA expert could tell you for sure.

wiring specialties

My guess is the cyls are flooded. Dry 'em out with a hair dryer. Could have perfect spark, fuel and timing and a wet flooded cyl will not fire.

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mechanicalmoron

Another one bites the dust...

AceOfHz

I'll look into drying out the cylinders. Would they stay flooded even with days/weeks in between trying to start it?

AceOfHz

I've popped the injectors out and cranked it and each one sprays enough to make its own spot on a paper towel. Is it worth checking fuel pressure if that is the case?

AceOfHz

I've also got a SR20DET swap in the garage, it came with the car purchase. Engine is pretty much fully built - pistons, rods, valve train, cams. Doesn't have any of the turbo parts or any injectors though and the head doesn't have the cams in. Wiring harness is a bit rough as well. Also have a transmission for it and the guts for another trans.

I thought about just saying screw the KA but I'd kind of like to feel the car with lower power and get used to it before moving to that. Plus it'll take a few more grand to get the SR ready since it's missing a few things and would need a good tune after that. I'm in a bit over my head I suppose, and don't know anyone around me who's an expert on these.

At this point I'm kind of contemplating just parting out the SR and selling the car.. I've been trying to figure out this no start issue for a few months now to no avail

dallaschristman

Hmm. I've got a single cam that's having pretty similar issues, so I've been trying to help any way I can. I haven't torn into mine yet.

Maybe it would be worth it to sell the single and throw a few hundred into a running duel cam? Then you could save the SR and throw money at it when you had the extra cash.

AceOfHz

I appreciate the help for sure.

I thought about that as well. But also wondered if the problem would somehow follow me into the next engine.

Also, when I put in a new distributor, it ended up being the other type they made for the engine (there is Hitachi and Mitsubishi.) Could that cause a no start issue? I read they were interchangeable.

AceOfHz

Finally back after a few months. I replaced the timing chain, tensioner, oil pump, and water pump. Checked oil pump/middle piece/distributor timing before putting it back together and crank/#1 cylinder tdc timing before turning the key after buttoning everything back up. Still not starting, doing the same exact thing.

Pretty frustrated and really have no idea what to do now.

p00t

You say you have spark.

Pop Quiz: What color is the spark?

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AceOfHz

Spark seems to be a yellowish color.

p00t

Likely that is your culprit. Basically a yellow or orange spark is very cold (in the world of sparks). Since you've changed the wires and distributor already the only item left is the coil.

You can check coil positive with a multimeter but the ground side thats controlled by the transistor needs a scope to diagnose.

If you have a spare coil and transistor or if you can get them on loan try them out in the car. The power and ground can be back probed to + and - also to ensure there is no issue with corrosion of the wires.

Good luck!

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AceOfHz

I'll give that a try for sure! I also have a coolant temp sensor on the way as I heard that a bad one could also cause starting issues.

p00t

Also forgot to mention, since it was sitting so long make sure the intake and exhaust arent plugged up. While cranking put your hand over the end of the exhaust and feel for airflow or take the o2 sensor out.

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AceOfHz

I did have to buy a new intake tube since it didn't come with one. I'll open the butterfly and check inside the manifold with a flashlight and then also check the exhaust.

Coil and coolant temp sensor should be here and on this weekend.

kyral

You set ignition timing by lining up the dowel with the notch or paint mark on the distributor. not by lining the marks up with plug 1.

I had a similar issue and it was because I was lining the paint mark up with the notch. you actually line the dowel up with the notch. if you've set timing you know what im talking about

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