Felpro vs cosmetic - Page 2 - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

tobroketobuildarealcar · 02-05-2013, 04:01 PM

On a stock setup you can use a felpro with no problems

for no reason use copper spray that stuff is for people who are clueless and dont know what they are doing or cheap people who still dont know what they are doing and are trying to re use a gasket

[email protected] · 02-05-2013, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobroketobuildarealcar

On a stock setup you can use a felpro with no problems

for no reason use copper spray that stuff is for people who are clueless and dont know what they are doing or cheap people who still dont know what they are doing and are trying to re use a gasket

i will take it that was directed at me so i will simply reply with this
796whp 630ftlbs
[email protected] 1/4mile
[email protected] 1/8th

125+ passes on the block 3 1/2 years abuse.

and there are many other motors we have built that have the same track record of lasting.

now there is no shame in reusing the gasket, you can call it being a cheap ass all you want but the #'s speak for themself.

also its pretty lame that whoever you are made a account just to "make a comment" while hiding who you are. all good no worries here

tobroketobuildarealcar · 02-05-2013, 04:49 PM

I honestly was not pointing at any one in particular just speaking my honest opinion
And I am a new member not a old member hiding my identity
This is a forum people are going to speak their mind sorry if I hurt your feelings

Also consider you are running a drag car where all the variables are different to start with your engine only runs for a minute at a time and never sees full heat cycles or prolonged drives 125 passes on a engine is still only a lil over 30 miles regardless of how much power you are making street cars can not be compared to drag cars

iamtheyi · 02-05-2013, 04:53 PM

AHAHAHAHHA. Make it more obvious hahahahahahhaha

[email protected] · 02-05-2013, 05:39 PM

So a race motor doesn't see heat cycles?
A street motor see more punishment then a race motor?
Yes this is a forum and you are free to say what you like.

I guess forged pistons shouldn't be used because of piston slap right.

Ok let's talk street motors
A 12:5 comp motor driven daily n 500 more miles on the weekend had the head off 2-3 timesbut gasket wwas re used yet still took a beating n never over heated. And copper spray was used

Same goes for a turbo motor daily driven boosted.

Trust me I have no hurt feelings ill sleep good tonight

tobroketobuildarealcar · 02-05-2013, 05:47 PM

Ok you win

[email protected] · 02-05-2013, 05:52 PM

Not trying to win just stating my opinion since it's a forum

ashtonroche · 02-05-2013, 07:55 PM

And with a new gasket im sure those same motors would have lasted just as long without issues. Basically the only reason for your justification of using it was to reuse the gasket? If so again seems like cheaping out to me. Yes it may have worked but Ive personally seen even great gaskets not even be on the block for a couple hours and when taken off the black coating crumbles and peels off. It was designed to do so. So instead of a new gasket you just spray it down with copper spray to make a nice even sealing surface again because the coating came off the gasket.

Again seems like a cheap way out but hey, whatever floats your boat. A new gasket without copper spray would last just as long without issues. As long as the mating surfaces are good and a good gasket is used you wont have issues. The copper spray isnt going to help a damn on a new gasket with good surfaces, it will only do more harm than good. Its not preventing the gasket from blowing under any circumstances. So why use it? Again unless used to simply reuse a gasket.

[email protected] · 02-05-2013, 09:18 PM

We spray brand new ones too and we don't have these cooking issues or whatever else crsp you guys say

ashtonroche · 02-05-2013, 11:03 PM

Exactly, im saying its not doing it any good to spray new ones. Again unless your trying to seal imperfections on the block or head. A good gasket will take the abuse just as long as spraying it. Its only making a mess. Especially if you have to pull it back apart and clean that shit up off the head and block.

Anyways, to each their own I guess. I'll continue my way and im sure youll continue yours. Never had any failures with any headgaskets that ive done. From a measly 250whp to 700+whp. DD'd my old setup for over a year and saw anywhere from 20psi daily to 30psi on race, 430whp pump, 550whp race. 17k miles put on that motor of absolute torture. Never once had headgasket problems.

[email protected] · 02-06-2013, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashtonroche

Exactly, im saying its not doing it any good to spray new ones. Again unless your trying to seal imperfections on the block or head. A good gasket will take the abuse just as long as spraying it. Its only making a mess. Especially if you have to pull it back apart and clean that shit up off the head and block.

Anyways, to each their own I guess. I'll continue my way and im sure youll continue yours. Never had any failures with any headgaskets that ive done. From a measly 250whp to 700+whp. DD'd my old setup for over a year and saw anywhere from 20psi daily to 30psi on race, 430whp pump, 550whp race. 17k miles put on that motor of absolute torture. Never once had headgasket problems.

same goes here no peoblems and yea we will comtinue with out spray

*wangan_cruiser* · 02-06-2013, 11:57 AM

thank god at least someone posted with their own experience. i fucking hate wannabe internet experts with no experience on wtf they are talking about. .

ashtonroche · 02-06-2013, 08:53 PM

Wah, go cry me a river. I post what ive personally seen happen to others via their shared info. I dont have to have actual experience with the stuff to know what im talking about idiot. They share info because they dont want anything to happen to someone else. So yeah, I could go pull up the horror story pictures if you want that steered me away from an ancient ritual performed by old school V8 guys if you want but I dont see the need to waste my time. Leave that shit for the old fashioned v8 guys that are still using 20 dollar shit metal gaskets and coating them with spray. Good one.

GTFO!

[email protected] · 02-07-2013, 07:36 AM

the same horror stories you speak of the same can be said about cometics or any other product ever made some are good batches others are bad.
ive had no issues with cometic yet everyone here states they suck for SR's or period.
ive copper sprayed cosworth headgasket and had head lift @27psi but my sprayed cometic held fine @33psi with more power but im not running around saying one is better then the other.
things can go both ways either like it or dont.
We have been building motors for over 20 years and the headgaskets all get sprayed with copper anywhere from 200hp-80hp motors and all have never had a issue with the gaskets getting sprayed. this is my own personal experiance not from others.

ashtonroche · 02-07-2013, 09:53 AM

And thats fine, keep doing your thing. Nobody is telling you otherwise. Im just saying its an ancient technique originally used to remedy shitty gaskets and shitty surfaces.

I personally used a Cosworth HG and GE headstuds on my motor, 35psi from a t67 h.o., roughly 650whp id say and no head lift. Fuel pressure dumped on me to the point it detonated so severely that it bent the crown and ring lands and broke the rings on my CP pistons yet the headgasket went nowhere and didnt lift or blow the gasket at all. Again if it can take that much abuse why would you try anything else. Again, no reason to try and fix something that isnt broke or doesnt work.

You keep doing your thing, ill keep doing mine.

[email protected] · 02-07-2013, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashtonroche

You keep doing your thing, ill keep doing mine.

exactly my point!

*!Zar!* · 02-07-2013, 11:03 AM

OEM > Felpro > Ziploc bag > Foreskin > Cometic.

yingiang · 02-07-2013, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashtonroche

The point is, you dont need to use copper spray. You really honestly thing copper paint spray will do anything to help seal anything? Really? It doesnt. A lot of old school v8 guys with old chevy v8's use them due to imperfections in the casting of the blocks to help try to fill cracks and crevices. Thats about it. And yes, even putting just a thin layer of it on both sides of the gasket, it will get into the cooling system.

Ive personally never used it because its absolutely pointless. I would never use it. Ive never had any issues using a proper gasket and good headstuds. Ever. 550, 600, 650, and 700+whp and never have lifted the head or blown a headgasket.

If your going to boost, use a Cosworth gasket, which is priced only about 60 bucks more than the Crapmetic gasket on FRsport.com and use some headstuds. Hell if your not going for more than 350-400whp then an oem paper or felpro and oem bolts will still hold what you want.

Just dont even think about using copper spray. Waste!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashtonroche

ugh,

The ARP studs have a flat bottom with a ridge above the threads that bottoms on the top of the block. The stud does not go all the way into the bottom of the head bolt hole. It only actually grabs about half the threads.

Now for example, Mazworx for the SR's remade the ARP studs properly with a custom batch from ARP. The new studs are proper and made from their ARP2000 material so they are really strong. Even a well known company like Mazworx stated the old arp's are junk and improperly designed and cause issues. Now for Iron blocks like the KA they dont cause as much issues like they do in the SR aluminum blocks. The improper ARP's have been known to pull threads right out of the block during removal and also allowed head lift at even low power levels and they also have been measured and are known to distort the tops of the cylinders significantly vs oem bolts and proper studs that bottom out in the bottom of the block. Not the deck.

Now, by all means for you KA guys, the ARP's should be fine for what your doing as even the EVO guys have used them into the 800+whp range without issues. But that is primarily the iron block vs the aluminum.

Im just making suggestions here as there are better options. Not saying the ARP's wont work for what you want. Im just telling you what is proper and what is not.

Ive personally seen what the old ARP's do to aluminum threads on the SR blocks. Just sayin.

Search Mazworx headstud comparison and you will see the picture of the old ARP vs the New ARP2000 Mazworx studs. Youll see what im talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashtonroche

Again, your not just arguing with me on this, your arguing with companies that put their time and resources and R and D into making better parts and parts that are affordable. The ARP2000 studs from mazworx are fairly inexpensive compared to other studs that do bottom out. About half the cost matter fact. Yes they are double the price of the ARP's...They work twice as good. I would be hesitant to see a 550-600whp SR with the old ARP's be pushed for long as I could bet they will have head lift problems and pull those studs right out of the block, threads and all. Ive seen it happen. 30psi on a t67 and boom, there went the gasket, and it didnt look pretty coming apart. Block was pretty much useless after that. Ive seen many other posts with the same problems.

I choose to use a proper stud on my SR builds and ive never had had lift or any problems at all gasket or stud related.

SORRY, FOR AS MUCH KNOWLEDGE YOU'RE PUTTING OUT TO THE TABLE. YOU OUGHT TO KNOW. IT MAKES EVERYTHING I'VE SEEN YOU POST IRRELEVANT. YES CAPS LOCK IS ON.

imotion s14 · 02-07-2013, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wangan_cruiser

yea cool. lets talk someone else experience.

So by your logic you have to do meth to know that it will fuck you up?

ashtonroche · 02-07-2013, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imotion s14

So by your logic you have to do meth to know that it will fuck you up?

Yes, that is their logic....fucking idiots.

You can think all you want.. Every motor ive built has yet to have headgasket failures and every motor Santos has build has yet to have failures. So who gives a crap. Ive just seen the horror pictures of those that have used spray and had failures. Again id rather not have to clean that shit up off all the surfaces if i have to remove the head.

ashtonroche · 02-07-2013, 01:20 PM

There is no proof that its any better than using a good gasket and studs. So yeah. Ill keep doing my thing and the others can all try meth for themselves to find out it will fuck them up.

[email protected] · 02-07-2013, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashtonroche

Yes, that is their logic....fucking idiots.

You can think all you want.. Every motor ive built has yet to have headgasket failures and every motor Santos has build has yet to have failures. So who gives a crap. Ive just seen the horror pictures of those that have used spray and had failures. Again id rather not have to clean that shit up off all the surfaces if i have to remove the head.

actually there isnt any work into the cleaning when the head is removed, brake cleaner is all it takes.

jamg · 02-07-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by towlie

Felpro. Don't use a metal hg.

If your ka-t pops the paper gasket will be the failsafe.

Blown $25 hg > rod through block

why not just get copper spark plugs? it will melt before putting a rod through the block.

ashtonroche · 02-08-2013, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamg

why not just get copper spark plugs? it will melt before putting a rod through the block.

lol, No!

Rods normally go through the block for one of two reasons. Worn bearing spins and then quickly siezes on the crank and breaks the rod.

Two- Too much power breaks the rod.

Copper plugs can handle whatever power you want to throw at them. Its detonation and high egt's that melt/break plugs not horsepower.

Just like using a paper gasket because it will give before the rod. Thats absolutely stupid. Point is dont push your motor further than what it was made or built to handle and you wont have to worry about putting in a failsafe so to speak. Because a paper gasket and copper plugs are not failsafes.

02-05-2013, 04:53 PM	#34
iamtheyi Nissanaholic! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brea, CA Age: 30 Posts: 2,252 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	AHAHAHAHHA. Make it more obvious hahahahahahhaha __________________

02-05-2013, 05:39 PM	#35
[email protected] Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: 310 all day! Age: 40 Posts: 912 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	So a race motor doesn't see heat cycles? A street motor see more punishment then a race motor? Yes this is a forum and you are free to say what you like. I guess forged pistons shouldn't be used because of piston slap right. Ok let's talk street motors A 12:5 comp motor driven daily n 500 more miles on the weekend had the head off 2-3 timesbut gasket wwas re used yet still took a beating n never over heated. And copper spray was used Same goes for a turbo motor daily driven boosted. Trust me I have no hurt feelings ill sleep good tonight __________________ MunkyW3rkz Racing

02-05-2013, 05:52 PM	#37
[email protected] Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: 310 all day! Age: 40 Posts: 912 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Not trying to win just stating my opinion since it's a forum __________________ MunkyW3rkz Racing

02-05-2013, 09:18 PM	#39
[email protected] Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: 310 all day! Age: 40 Posts: 912 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	We spray brand new ones too and we don't have these cooking issues or whatever else crsp you guys say __________________ MunkyW3rkz Racing

02-07-2013, 07:36 AM	#44
[email protected] Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: 310 all day! Age: 40 Posts: 912 Trader Rating: (4) Feedback Score: 4 reviews	the same horror stories you speak of the same can be said about cometics or any other product ever made some are good batches others are bad. ive had no issues with cometic yet everyone here states they suck for SR's or period. ive copper sprayed cosworth headgasket and had head lift @27psi but my sprayed cometic held fine @33psi with more power but im not running around saying one is better then the other. things can go both ways either like it or dont. We have been building motors for over 20 years and the headgaskets all get sprayed with copper anywhere from 200hp-80hp motors and all have never had a issue with the gaskets getting sprayed. this is my own personal experiance not from others. __________________ MunkyW3rkz Racing

02-05-2013, 04:01 PM	#31
tobroketobuildarealcar Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Florida Posts: 508 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	On a stock setup you can use a felpro with no problems for no reason use copper spray that stuff is for people who are clueless and dont know what they are doing or cheap people who still dont know what they are doing and are trying to re use a gasket

02-05-2013, 04:49 PM	#33
tobroketobuildarealcar Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Florida Posts: 508 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I honestly was not pointing at any one in particular just speaking my honest opinion And I am a new member not a old member hiding my identity This is a forum people are going to speak their mind sorry if I hurt your feelings Also consider you are running a drag car where all the variables are different to start with your engine only runs for a minute at a time and never sees full heat cycles or prolonged drives 125 passes on a engine is still only a lil over 30 miles regardless of how much power you are making street cars can not be compared to drag cars

02-05-2013, 05:47 PM	#36
tobroketobuildarealcar Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Florida Posts: 508 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Ok you win

02-05-2013, 07:55 PM	#38
ashtonroche Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: yuma Age: 37 Posts: 397 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	And with a new gasket im sure those same motors would have lasted just as long without issues. Basically the only reason for your justification of using it was to reuse the gasket? If so again seems like cheaping out to me. Yes it may have worked but Ive personally seen even great gaskets not even be on the block for a couple hours and when taken off the black coating crumbles and peels off. It was designed to do so. So instead of a new gasket you just spray it down with copper spray to make a nice even sealing surface again because the coating came off the gasket. Again seems like a cheap way out but hey, whatever floats your boat. A new gasket without copper spray would last just as long without issues. As long as the mating surfaces are good and a good gasket is used you wont have issues. The copper spray isnt going to help a damn on a new gasket with good surfaces, it will only do more harm than good. Its not preventing the gasket from blowing under any circumstances. So why use it? Again unless used to simply reuse a gasket.

02-05-2013, 11:03 PM	#40
ashtonroche Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: yuma Age: 37 Posts: 397 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Exactly, im saying its not doing it any good to spray new ones. Again unless your trying to seal imperfections on the block or head. A good gasket will take the abuse just as long as spraying it. Its only making a mess. Especially if you have to pull it back apart and clean that shit up off the head and block. Anyways, to each their own I guess. I'll continue my way and im sure youll continue yours. Never had any failures with any headgaskets that ive done. From a measly 250whp to 700+whp. DD'd my old setup for over a year and saw anywhere from 20psi daily to 30psi on race, 430whp pump, 550whp race. 17k miles put on that motor of absolute torture. Never once had headgasket problems.

02-06-2013, 11:57 AM	#42
wangan_cruiser kouki man Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: downtown oakland,ca Age: 36 Posts: 3,535 Trader Rating: (36) Feedback Score: 36 reviews	thank god at least someone posted with their own experience. i fucking hate wannabe internet experts with no experience on wtf they are talking about. .

02-06-2013, 08:53 PM	#43
ashtonroche Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: yuma Age: 37 Posts: 397 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Wah, go cry me a river. I post what ive personally seen happen to others via their shared info. I dont have to have actual experience with the stuff to know what im talking about idiot. They share info because they dont want anything to happen to someone else. So yeah, I could go pull up the horror story pictures if you want that steered me away from an ancient ritual performed by old school V8 guys if you want but I dont see the need to waste my time. Leave that shit for the old fashioned v8 guys that are still using 20 dollar shit metal gaskets and coating them with spray. Good one. GTFO!

02-07-2013, 09:53 AM	#45
ashtonroche Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: yuma Age: 37 Posts: 397 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	And thats fine, keep doing your thing. Nobody is telling you otherwise. Im just saying its an ancient technique originally used to remedy shitty gaskets and shitty surfaces. I personally used a Cosworth HG and GE headstuds on my motor, 35psi from a t67 h.o., roughly 650whp id say and no head lift. Fuel pressure dumped on me to the point it detonated so severely that it bent the crown and ring lands and broke the rings on my CP pistons yet the headgasket went nowhere and didnt lift or blow the gasket at all. Again if it can take that much abuse why would you try anything else. Again, no reason to try and fix something that isnt broke or doesnt work. You keep doing your thing, ill keep doing mine.

02-07-2013, 11:03 AM	#47
!Zar! Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Korea Posts: 14,576 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	OEM > Felpro > Ziploc bag > Foreskin > Cometic.

02-07-2013, 01:20 PM	#51
ashtonroche Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: yuma Age: 37 Posts: 397 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	There is no proof that its any better than using a good gasket and studs. So yeah. Ill keep doing my thing and the others can all try meth for themselves to find out it will fuck them up.

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